The Leeds United blame game TSS October 8, 2013 Leeds United 155 Comments Five defeats in six games and it seems every supporter has taken a side in the Leeds United blame game. The owners, the players, the manager… they’re all coming under-attack, some more than others, but while most supporters argue the case for their personal choice, I prefer to blame all of the above. I’d blame the fans too, but the only thing you can really blame the fans for is perpetual moaning and this post would be somewhat hypocritical if I did. Brian McDermott We’ll start with the manager who’ll no doubt be the most controversial because he’s new and likeable, meaning a cult-like following of fans will behead you for even daring to suggest he shares some of the blame (key word: shares). Yes, he needs more money and better players but I can surely criticise those he’s brought in? Of the four players McDermott has signed, only Noel Hunt has started the last two games and he’s probably been the most disappointing of them all. I’ve been trying to figure out why £600,000 was too much for Chris Burke if £1,000,000 is perfectly acceptable for a bench-warming midfielder? I questioned the signing of Luke Murphy when it happened, not because I didn’t trust Brian McDermott’s eye for a player, but I was confused as to why we’d broke the bank for a central midfielder when the club was already overrun with them. Why was a winger or a quality striker not the number one priority? Taking a chance on an expensive League One player when you have very little to spend was very risky and it simply hasn’t paid off. The logic in signing Matt Smith I can understand, he’ll be a very cheap player to have on the books and is a useful sub to throw on in the dying moments to launch hoofballs at. He’s nowhere near good enough to be playing at this level, but that’s true of half our team. Of all the signings McDermott has made, the only one I have any sympathy for is Scott Wootton. He’s had some good games, but it’s going to take time for him to adjust to Leeds United’s under 11’s style defending techniques (as demonstrated in the image below). Three players chasing the same ball while none of them pick up the man in acres of space on the edge of the area. Derby County may be the first time we’ve conceded three against under McDermott, but it won’t have surprised the regulars. In terms of defensive organisation (which includes the midfield players who don’t tighten up anywhere near enough when the opposition are in possession) Leeds have an awful lot to improve on. You could blame the board for not buying McDermott better defenders, and you’d get no arguments from me, but it doesn’t matter how good the defenders are if they’re all chasing the ball like a children’s football team. The owners I’m willing to exercise patience and accept we’re working on a 2-3 year plan, but we’re supposed to see a steady improvement in the meantime. I fully appreciate that this club is burdened by the wages of players who infiltrated Elland Road and convinced previous regimes they were professional footballers, but this is something which should have been considered before purchasing the club. In football, you sometimes have to cut your losses. Terminating the contracts of Michael Brown and Danny Pugh (among others) costs money, but it’s much less than they cost by keeping them on the books for another year. It’s difficult to escape the feeling that we’re stuck in the same rut we’ve been in for the last 8 years, weighed down by poor, overpaid footballers who are nowhere near good enough to get us promoted. These have to be replaced by better players and I’m not convinced we’re doing that. Noel Hunt feels like another Billy Paynter, Matt Smith like a poor man’s Enoch Showumni. They’re not going to feature among the Championship’s top-scorers, far less a Premier League Leeds United side, so why bother in the first place? It’s the same numbers game we’ve been playing for nearly a decade now. Instead of adding quality, we add numbers, until we realise the numbers we’ve added are achieving nothing and we need to get rid. We then wait until their contracts expire and repeat the process. Unless we stop adding numbers and start paying for serious quality, we’ll be stuck in this Groundhog Day scenario forever more. The players I can’t blame the players for lacking the desired talent, but I can certainly criticise their lack of organisation. I’ve seen Sunday League players demonstrate better awareness of what’s happening around them than most of Leeds United’s players do, no one seems to take charge of any situation, the organisation is non-existent and we get caught ball-watching far too often. Either McDermott’s tactics are borrowed from a High School gym teacher or the players are failing to implement them. Is it really so difficult to pick up individual players, or direct another player to do so allowing yourself to cover the man who he’s obviously going to pass to? The midfield doesn’t tighten up enough and instead of restricting the options of the player on the ball first, then moving in to challenge the man in possession, we constantly send men (plural) at the player with the ball (who’s posing no imminent threat), allowing him to pass it to another player we’ve left in acres of space, taking half our team out of the equation and leaving the defence exposed. Do professional football teams not practice defensive drills any more? This stuff is elementary! Ahh well, the only way is up… (hopefully) markman I think the international break has come at a good time. dont know why all of a sudden we cant defend,we started the season by being hard to beat. Murphy has stepped up a division and it seems will take time to adjust but several teams in the championship were after him.i think he needs time and good coaching he is no longer a big fish in a small pond. As for Mr Hunt,he is a mystery,playing well at Reading turns up at Leeds and is very poor as he himself admits.what happened between leaving Reading and arriving at leeds? got married.maybe suffering from delayed shock.I am sure BM is telling him shape up or move on. igiveup I questioned the decision not sign Burke at the time saying it was McDermotts’ first mistake. I guarantee he will put in a MOM performance in against us on Sun week and no doubt score the winner. There must be a dozen or so PL squad players available to join us on loan before the next game. If we don’t act now we’ll be back in League One next season, even worse we might be going in the opposite direction to Bradford Tyler75 The reason we bought Murphy is that although we had a surfeit of midfielders, not one of them could tackle AND pass the ball – Murphy can certainly do that. At present he is the casualty for Mowatt’s emergence – this is less a problem and more an opportunity. As much as I admire Rudy’s spirit, Mowatt and Murphy alongside each other would be the better central midfield partnership pace, passing, energy, ball winning and a goal threat – they only lack experience. Irving08 Yes, I agree – but with Dawson too: he bites, as well as creates, and he can dribble. I can take a modest season or two if I have confidence in the playing direction we are taking. I think we are roughly in the same position as we were when Eddie Gray took over in the early 1980s. Eddie then had the misfortune of taking over while our former glories were still relativley fresh in the memory; so he was not given time to make the necessary correctives to his youthful but oh-so- talented line-up. BM in this respect is in a better position than Eddie was and, I think, would take the fans with him if he went down his prematurely aborted route. But what about the owners ? Could Brian persuade them of the wisdom of such a strategy – supposing he himself was persuaded of it ? mrbigwheels I really am doubting the mindset and direction of one and all. The players are the most disturbing in their lack of consistency and skill. Personally, I’m feeling very ‘empty’, on the whole LUFC story. In reality…. Bates is haunting and lingering. Something drastic needs to be done in terms of a direction within the team and if by Christmas nothing has improved…. Heaven help the Club. We are certainly not Marching on together, at the moment. Danny LUFC Thank you TSS! I was starting to think all the LUFC sites had agreed a deal with the owners to pretend everything is OK. Some of the stuff written on other sites is nauseating, like RITGK who seem to have their heads so far up the clubs arse they’ve lost all sense of reality. RITGK Thanks for your continued support Danny LeedsHipPriest Made me laugh Sorry RITGK flubber123 Now im not biggin BMC up but i dont blame him so much as i do the players and mostly the board.. If they had found this cash a few months back (ya know, when the tranfer market was open) then i doubt we would be in this position.. i will say there are some things about BMC im not to sure about, such as Diouf, but who knows he may just not like him and his effect on other players, same with morison.. thing is his hands are pretty much tied, and as for burke, he told us why, in 6 months time he is out of contract and he is nearing 30.. those are not things that clock up a price tag of £600,000, however i do think he would have helped us out.. murphy is a star of the future, its not that long ago every1 was screamin to give young ens a chance, he gives em a chance and gets rapped for it.. I love Leeds United but some of our fans are seriously fickle, iv been guilty of it myself.. and thats the other part.. us.. the fans.. do we expect too much from leeds united? look at how badly england play in important matches and that is all due to pressure of fans expectations.. look how well we played in the cup when every1 thought we were guna get slaughtered!! back to BMC, GFH need to back him seriously, i no he looks like a chubby, bald harry potter but he is just a manager and can only work with what he has and what he has is not a magic wand.. I for 1 have faith in him.. there is no1 else that fits our clubs needs as much as he does but its guna take time.. however i will say this 1 last thing.. If the players ever give a dismayl performance again like they did against derby then they should give the weeks wages back and apologise to the fans for being so poo! steveleedsfan I’ve been watching Leeds since 1977 and I can’t remember seeing a worse team than the one I’ve witnessed in the last few games. A goalkeeper who’s distribution is terrible, a defense that has forgotten how to defend, a midfield with no attacking flair or creative ideas and a forward line that doesn’t score (although I concede that this is potentially a product of the midfield issues). We have no pace, no width and I have seen very little desire. We pass it around – usually backwards or at best, square, and then eventually lose possession. Against Bournemouth last Tuesday it was difficult to see who had only got 10 men on the pitch – and we nearly blew it. I can only assume that Byram is still not fit, otherwise it’s a mystery why he’s warming the bench. Wootton looked good in his first couple of games, but appears to have been made a scapegoat and we have a bright young star in Mowatt. Other than that I find myself pulling out what little hair that remains. Forget any ideas of promotion – on the current showing we are in for a relegation dogfight. God forbid !! Ron I agree. Perhaps if the fans stop traveling or coming to ER we’ll take the pressure off them enough to perform? We are paying heavily for a mongrel mob put together on a shoestring in recent years. I’d be much happier watching a collection of youth players this season than a collection of players with ‘reputations’ before joining. It’s clear to me we can’t challenge this season, so why not play the youngsters and see what the summer brings next year? Investment hopefully, but at the very least we will have tested our youth. Tyler75 Warnock’s hoofball last season was infinitely, mind numbingly,worse. Not sure that we’re not a fit Byram, a pacy winger and quality striker away from being a decent side. Agree with you on Kenny though – excellent shotstopper though he is, his distribution is very poor and doesn’t provide any confidence to the defence on crosses into the box. Ashdown is much more secure and deserves a run in the team henrymouni I blame Bates & GFH. One and the same! When GFH pulled the plug on Brian’s 6 targets, and told him he would have to turn Warnock’s team into winners, we were always going to struggle. This team has never played well, under Warnock or BM. When we were sliding to disaster last season, GFH brought BM in to save us and he did. It was obvious the team was crap. GFH then pull the plug, and BM is left with the same crap team, and a bleak season ahead. BM brings in 4 players. 3 gambles & Hunt. I am sure only Hunt was on his original list. The team has returned to ‘normal’ so no surprises there. We have scraped points, but never played well in over 12 months. I am not disappointed because I knew they were crap from the off! I knew GFH were crap from the off! Fans who felt GFH and this squad would come good, are angry now. NOBODY could turn this team into promotion candidates. We are 14th in the league, and have been outplayed by Millwall, who themselves have had some real thrashings this season. We are a joke in this league, and it is not a surprise. mrbigwheels Well done and said Henri !. number1inyorkshire the whole thing from top to bottom is a disgrace .. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BATES we have a collective of none footballing Arabs with no idea and certainly no money . we have a manager who is destined to have a career as a harry hill lookalike and has about as much footballing nouse as him .he is playing our strikers so far wide hunt was running down the fourth row of the west stand . he will not turn it round because aside from McCormack and a few others the players are not good enough to do it ,the loan market is the same equation as renting or buying and with the same answer 1 is dead money .. There is no fear in playing leeds anymore and there hasn’t been for years Elland road is depressing and atmosphere-less every team i watch plays better football than leeds .when was the last time we saw a proper league performance ???? If it carries on its hard to get out of the rutt and the manager will be sacked by then it will be too late ,we wont go down but there will be more teams above than below henrymouni Bates said he would only sell the club to people who had the funds to take Leeds Utd forward. He lied! Bates sold to GFH. LeedsHipPriest I think in GFH Ken Bates found the right buyer for Ken Bates and not for Leeds United matt bb Henry, did you honestly believe bates had anything in mind other than who would pay him the most? GFH have done a decent job so far, but their biggest obstacles are that bates stripped the club of its cashflow for 2 seasons, and then uefa ffp rules, they they’ll need to work a lazarusesque miracle to deal with those JDC The logic of signing Luke Murphy was that he is, above all, a talented, attacking midfielder who can pass the ball, long or short, something that is in short supply with the rest of midfield players on the books. Additionally, in some of the early games, he was tracking back and making himself available to collect the ball from defenders, namely Jason Pearce and Stephen Warnock on the left who appeared to ignore his presence and either chipped the ball down the line (Warnock), usually in hope, and usually giving possession to the opposition, or lumping it over midfield (Pearce) in an attempt to find a forward, again, only to lose possession. Perhaps he should be played in his preferred role of centre midfield behind the strikers. He remains the best exponent of the long ball amongst all our midfield players. As far as Matt Smith’s concerned, it’s far too early to make a serious assessment of his potential as he has not had sufficient game time. Irving08 But why do we need Murphy when we have Dawson – already a Welsh Under 21 -in our ranks ? And having seen Mowatt play a couple of games, I would question your view that Murphy is the best long ball exponent in our ranks. Perhaps playing all three of the persons named above – Murphy deeper than the other two – is the way to go ? mrbigwheels Think we need them both Irving. Your latter suggestion is good. I just think Dawson is not fully recovered for the long haul but he is a big answer to some of the games ahead. He looks slightly more ‘ framey’ than last season. lol. Irving08 ‘Framey’ – I like it. But is he in the ‘frame’ (ouch) ? I hope so. JDC Irving … Brian McDermott would not have seen Chris Dawson play when he signed Luke Murphy as he was injured on his first appearance last season and awaiting surgery when BMcD arrived … which he’s had and continues his recovery, still not 100% fit … didn’t stop him putting in a class performance last night against The Blades though and the through ball he played for Walters’ goal was pure class … however, he has to “bulk up” to withstand the rigours of a full season. Equally, I’m not questioning Alex Mowatt’s ability or potential, or comparing him to Luke Murphy … I was simply comparing Murphy against the “old guard” … and I stand by that opinion. I would be happy to see the two of them playing side by side in centre midfield roles with Dawson in the hole behind the strikers. mrbigwheels I do feel that McD may have been playing his ‘last chance saloon’ card for some of the midfield with the laying off of Murphy and the recent surprise of Mowatt. The same for Wootton, perhaps a big change in the defence after the Derby match. White should be back,in there, hopefully Byram too. Surely…. Byram, Wootton, Lees, White, Murphy, Poleon and Diouffy … Can make a, difference with a loan winger coming in. Tyler75 Peltier and Wooton would be a better, ball playing, centre back pairing with the pace to recover. spellz Murphy is far from talented and a great passer from what I have seen in the games he has played in early doors, he has no movement, passes atrociously and has no scooby doo most of the time of how to play ball, imo a waste of a million but he has a whole season to change my mind. Ev Murphy likes to spread the play around, hes similar to Carrick. You think Carrick would enjoy trying to pass the ball in a 2 meter square are (which is the leeds midfeild) ….judge him when hes got some wide players making runs to feed…. spellz I have got to be honest with you he has shown nothing to even use as a comparison to Carrick and like I just said to Colin once he puts a sustained effort in considering he has been our biggest signing in a decade. I will then be able to assess his ability atm he is a player that has come from a lower level with potential no doubt but early doors has not lived up to his rep I do hope in time he proves me wrong. Ev yes im just saying he should get more chances but not ahead of the lad dawson….. and what about Walters too ?? seems to have an eye for goal. I honestly dont know what we are scared of when it comes to playing kids….they arnt scared of anything so atleast you will see them going for it. Leeds cant play any worse than we have done. Please Brian, use your imagination spellz What about Hall too? I would like to see our fearless kids have a go also. Ev Blades fans telling me Leeds should take Hall Back….hes that good :o) Colin If Luke Murphy had Howson, Snodgrass and Gradel around him, I think you would see a very different Luke Murphy. spellz This could well be true I do feel he needs to show a bit more effort on and off the ball, if I was the first big signing for a club like Leeds United in a decade I would be clamping down people, spreading the ball about often, making moves into space frequently just showing a bit of class and try to stand out. I just have not seen that type of commitment to judge his true ability yet just would like to see the effort. JDC spellz … we are all entitled to our opinions, and I will stick with mine. Perhaps at the end of the season we can compare them again. spellz I know that is why I expressed mine to contrast what I feel was a weak substance statement, we will compare come the end of the season but don’t get me wrong, I hope you win that battle for the sake of us as a club but for now he has been dumped out of my fantasy football team with swift affect lol. mrbigwheels This site is amazing… It’s gone from trying to sell me a C5 I don’t want, when there is no article to read but now when there is…. I’m getting very attractive 40 plus women that is quite appealing seeing there is a fortnight off and over riding my miserable view of LUFC and the depressive outlook. MOT. Pingback: The Leeds United blame game – The Scratching Shed | Love and Blame() Matthew Noel Hunt is shaping up to be the next Billy Paynter, a small, but hardworking player who just can’t score. Unfortunately you need goals to win games and we can all feel sorry for his misfortune all we want but thing is, if he’s playing and still can’t score, he’s going before people on the bench who actually look like scoring. Poleon is a lot younger but seems more capable than Hunt at hitting the net and actually looks like scoring.. Tyler75 Say what you like about Barndoor – but ‘small’ isn’t something you can level at him ! Matthew Poor wording on my part, I really should log in when commenting here, just quicker using the guest function. I was basically describing Noel Hunt. And saying he shares many of the same traits of Paynter. Both players worked hard but neither was able to score, I couldn’t question their work ethic, just neither are capable of doing what any Striker should. derbyshirewhite Being manager isn’t just about signing better players though. We have a squad who have on rare occasions shown they can compete at a very high level. So why the inconsistency? As our players came out for the second half on Saturday they looked neither fired-up nor ‘just bollocked’. They mostly looked weary, although I noticed Paul Green was feeling sufficiently relaxed to join in the chat with some of his old team mates from Derby. BM has said we need to be harder to beat, more competitive. That’s first and foremost his challenge. Maybe he needs to acquire a hairdrier. Reginald Glovebox John Terry is largely seen as a bit of a twat (bear with me here). And there are many who would say he’s a complete full kit wearing C**T. But, if he’d been one of those 3 defenders in the second picture (above), who found themselves ridiculously out of position when Martin was about to pull the trigger, he’d have flung himself towards the man/ball even if it looked stupid and even if he had little chance of stopping the shot. The 3 idiots who firstly all ran at the same man and then just stood and watched someone put us a goal behind should be fined a weeks wages and dropped from the first team. If we can’t afford anyone decent, and lets be honest we can’t, then I’d rather see the kids in. Irving08 Excellent analysis: fair and to the point. So far as I am concerned, the sooner Dawson and Mowatt are playing together the better; we wouldn’t need to go after the ball so much if we could retain it. The only way forward is to promote our best youngsters now. Ev Agree, fans keep going on about Dawsons weight but thats the kind of thinking thats caused the English game problems………its skill first, not fitness and many of our best players were tiny Colin Neil Warnock would have told Lionel Messi to ‘bulk up’ Ev Neil Warnock would have told Mark Viduka, Neil Ruddock and Jan Molby to bulk up Bluesman Henrymouni, below. You are spot on. I don’t particularly agree that GFH are crap, but they have made a right pig’s ear of their first season in charge! BM can’t be blamed for this situation. Warnock could not be blamed for his situation. No investment in the team. Same old crap team, sale old crap football, but spiced up a bit because BM knows what he is doing. I think he is the only one who does though. GFH could not organise a piss up in a brewery. And, tell me, who are they going to get who is any good now? PS who is the tart with the nice tits in the advert? Michael If McDermott had been given a clear indication of his budget at the start of the summer, I might agree with your analysis about his signings a bit more. As it is, the summer was a mess; one minute he had plenty to spend, the next minute it was one in one out. An investment in the background clearly didn’t work out and, as McDermott told the press, the budget was nowhere near what it was supposed to be. The thing about Hunt is he clearly did a decent job at Reading. I think the poor performances of him and Murphy reflect our lack of a balanced team. If the team had some width, Murphy would have a bit more space and certainly more passing options, and Hunt might get more of a chance to cause trouble in the box from crosses. Overall I’m disappointed but not willing to start pointing too many fingers yet, I just hope we get some wingers in on loan. Ev spot on… firstly its easy for us all (me included) to pick holes in what Brians done and if you go back to the beginning of the season without a jaundiced eye, honestly you can understand almost all his decisions. I think he wanted a winger but he couldn’t get the ones he wanted due to money…. Murphy though seemingly was attainable. At the time not many of us thought that we would be facing the crisis we are now so why should Brian ? Sometimes things happen and problems become disasters If you haven’t got loads of money then you have to go for bargains, all of these signings could still be positive influence on the team. HOWEVER the point that the manager lost my complete backing was over the last few games because of his refusal to see Diouf as anything but a bit part striker (no hes our best passer…..) and to see Austin playing on the wing instead of Byram whos fit enough for the bench ?? The fact that goal scorer Poleon cant get in the team because of the impotent Hunt etc etc So team selection and formation is what did it for me….. If we lose badly lets at least lets see the the most gifted players on the pitch then thats one less thing the manager can be blamed for LUFC-Srbski God reading some of those comments is depressing but sadly I can’t fault some people’s reasoning. However, I don’t think GFH are as clueless as people are making out but I do agree that they pulled Brian’s summer transfer budget at the last minute due to lack of funds after promising him said funds when he initially came on board. I question the signing of Hunt because frankly he has been abysmal and it was a complete waste of wages. Whilst, Morrison isn’t the best and has suffered with injury he would have provided a nice big target man to play off and probably got a few goals – something I think we need to do more is employ either Diouf or Smith as lone strikers as they can both hold the ball up. I think the following players need dropping for a considerable period Green, Lees & Tongue. I want to see Mowatt, Dawson, Poleon play regularly in the side. Surely, there are some pacey wingers in our youth setup who could have a go in the first team! Matthew Would personally like to see a Right winger, with Byram playing behind in RB. I think at this point McDermott should just go 4-5-1, you can play this formation without hoofball. LeedsHipPriest Great assessment TSS, and you are right to include fans in the critique too. Leeds fans are too quick to forget the shambolic Ridsdale spendthrift approach of not too many years ago.. How many Leeds fans went into masturbation overdrive when rumours of Red Bull investment broke when in reality it was no more than a GFH spin to sell a few more match tickets. spellz The blame lies with Ken Bates, quite simply he ruined the development of our squad over the years by stripping the team off all our main assets he carved open crater sized holes in our already depleted squad, giving even the likes of cocky egotistical pricks like Neil Warnock no hope of getting a result. The way I see it now is we are in a restructuring period with the new changes this season to staff and board, we do need investment and fast to really install some punch in to our goal starved lacklustre first eleven but all takes time and I believe it is too early to write us off and to be considering relegation to all the miserable runts who think everything is doomed all the time wake the fcuk up we are Leeds nothing is ever easy. M.O.T As Always. Nick Smith I think the assessment of Smith is very harsh. He’s young and from what I’ve seen of him looks a decent prospect. He came on against Burnley and was one of the best players on the pitch. Hunt has been poor, yes, but Smith has looked decent. Slating him on blogs like this is hardly going to make him play any better is it? There is such a fear of failure at Leeds by the players and some of that can attributed to the hysteria caused by fans and “fans” of the club ripping into the team after one bad result. The treatment of people like Ross and Hunt on Twitter is disgusting and I would hate to think it is from real fans and not just trolls like that West Ham weapon. Get behind the team and perhaps they will play with more freedom. Colin Completely agree. As for twitter, after the Derby game, I saw people having a go at Luke Murphy. Luke Murphy didn’t even play against Derby. PAUL W The Leeds fans should not be blamed for anything, due to them being the only long term asset that Leeds Utd actually have. Far too many Leeds players are big talkers off the pitch, but as soon as they step on the pitch, they are like shrinking violets. The defence are an absolute shambles and I do not know why Brian McDermott does not ask a former defensive great, such Norman Hunter or Lucus Radebe, to come in for just a few training sessions, to teach the Leeds defenders the art of defending. After last season and the season before, every Leeds fan is entitled to demand a better finish than mid-table and that was only a few points away from the relegation zone. Ev The players should be banned from social networks for their own sake as well as ours… it does us no favours for Ross McCormack to be feilding abuse and insults from Fans…. (how to motivate your team NOT) spellz Good point somewhere it must affect them mentally but if you are a strong character though I would expect it to spur you on to prove the doubters wrong. Ev These arnt prem players mate, we have got Div 1 or low level Championship players trying to take on the pressure that comes with a Massive (and extremely disenfranchised) fan base……….We (me included) have sod all patience anymore. The likes of Varney, hunt and poor old Egg head are taking the brunt of that….. i dont think we should apologize for it….. it just is the way it is spellz I admit patience is wearing thin with fans but even if we got promoted this year how would we get on? do you think we could even stay in a division where Brian has to deal with Warnocks rejects we need time to build the team under his management for crying out loud he hasn’t even had half a season yet and people already are swinging the metaphorical guillotine. Matthew If we got promoted this season, most of this squad would need to be sold/released, about 80 percent of the playing squad, and any manager would have to build from scratch. Because of this, we’d likely have an up and down season in the Premier league and would likely be sitting in or around the relegation spaces, narrowly avoiding relegation. Most of this squad would be eaten alive in the Premier League, as they’d be out of their depth. spellz Hiya Matty how are you mate? yeah that is my point although we pray to be back where we feel we belong I think we need to improve our current squad under McD’s ideology’s and deserve to go up rather than fluke it and embarrass ourselves as a club by going straight back down. Colin I think it’s a cheap trick to throw blame around. It’s much more difficult to accept that in reality there isn’t a great deal that Leeds can do THIS season to turn things around. 1 – FFP. This season, each Champ club can only afford to lose £3m or they will face FFP sanctions. Lest we forget, that for this season, GFH inherited a debt of £3.3m to Ticketus (thanks Ken) that comes off our cashflow. In addition, there’s a host of players contracted to the club that will rarely (if ever) feature for the first team (thanks Warnock). I reckon those players will be clearing at least £2m in wages this season. That’s £5m in cash that GFH are losing this season. On the flip side, it’s £5m that we’ll be better off next season. 2 – McDermott can play dull but ‘hard to beat’ football like at the start of the season. It’s effective but hardly exciting. I think Brian is trying to experiment by playing a more exciting and attacking game but due to the lack of quality of some players, it leaves us desperately exposed to opposition attacks when we lose the ball (we saw this at Derby). 3 – We know from experience that more often than not, loans don’t work. If someone is available for loan, you have to ask why? I’d say it’s because they are not good enough for their club. So why should we accept someone else’s cast offs? They’re not good enough for another club, but they’re good enough for Leeds? No thank you. I much prefer the approach of getting players on the up (Luke Murphy) then players on their way down. Did anyone really think that Leeds would get promoted this season? I didn’t. It’s a rebuilding season. I don’t think all the kids should be thrown in. There’s nothing that they will learn from getting beat week after week. FFP means that GFH can’t throw cash at the club. And I still reckon they have piled in millions just to fill in holes that Bates left. Under a Bates regime, the future talents would have been sold to keep the club afloat. Not this time and GFH deserve credit for that. McDermott has a 3 year contract. IMHO, It will take that long to sort out the mess and rebuild. Let’s give him the chance to do that! spellz “I think it’s a cheap trick to throw blame around.” (thanks Ken) (thanks Warnock) I detect a subtle hint of blame in them brackets lol. Colin That’s a fair point. I should have made it clear that I didn’t think it was fair to cast blame on Brian, GFH, current squad. As for Warnock & Bates, I would like to give them much more than blame. Perhaps a kick, a punch, a chinese burn. spellz Totally in agreement, the foundations were layed down for a disaster under the reign of Bates and trust me I am one not to mention him too much as I cannot stand the man have me even waste time typing about him. It is the truth though he fcuked us and it will take a lot of time to repair it even though us fans would like a quick fix. I think Brian might be the right man but our fans are too quick to cast blame and we will never know because the whole blame game is demoralising and us Leeds fans even though we have reason to are notorious at doing so. Ev Are we sure we dont want Bentley ?? We got Rudolph the red nose Austin playing on the wing but we dont want Bentley because hes too similar ??? hmmm Even disabled im sure he would improve us. Apologies for my sarcasm spellz I said the same thing about Bentley, I think he would be a great addition and bring some creative flair to our boring to watch current squad. Ev I think we could still sign him ?? as hes unattached ….but hey we dont need him…. we got the dynimic foursome of Green, Austion, Pugh and Brown !!! spellz Thank god for them. Bam Syram signing Bentley is attempting to make a quick and ill informed signing and will probably achieve nothing. Ev You mean like the other 4 signings we made ?? Bam Syram I do mean like that, i think 2/4 were decent signings that will work out given time and competence around them, Smith/Hunt were poor choices although im sure Smith’s salary is probably pretty low in comparison. Mike (Headnote: this isnt pointed at the author, just general statements) Leeds fans do deserve blame, literally no patience amongst the bunch at all. I could maybe see the way we’re acting toward the coach/board/players if they’d all come out and proclaimed promotion this year but instead they said 2-3 year plan built on steady growth. Slag them off all you want if it makes you feel better but i think Brian has repeatedly said “we want to get everyone pulling in the same direction.” The organization (coach/mgmt/squad) seems to be doing that but our fanbase and their inflated sense of entitlement seem to keep pulling back in the negative direction which i do feel is having and effect on things. When we’re on a bad run we should be encouraging the squad not telling them they’re shit and then we wonder why they’re having a hard time picking themselves up. Don’t blame your negativitiy on things like “after the Bates era thats just the way we are” .. nut up and support you club positively. Ev Not sure i completely agree with that….I think the fans have a right to be cheesed off after 10 years of xxxx spellz I didn’t know McD and GFH have been here for ten years, new era new way of thinking and the fans need to leave the past behind in order to move forward. Mike Thank you spellz, couldnt have said it better myself. Ev it doesnt work like that…..A nice sound bite but the reality is fans are going to be impatient (take a look around the forums for a quick example) and the Bates era / Risdale has helped create that Barkavious Isn’t the point of supporting a team to enjoy them not to whine/mope/complain about them all the time? Sure there’s going to be ups and downs, but we’re gona stick with them forever.. atleast until the world comes crumbling down Ev Im not arguing that what you suggest isnt right, im arguing that it wont happen. If you have a magic button that can suddenly turn all leeds fans that have been mugged for 8 years into positive happy chappy’s then go for it otherwise whats the point of trolling about it and stating the obvious? henrymouni We support the team to see a performance, win or lose. If the teams plays consistently bad, pointless (pun intended) football, you cannot cheer them off. No matter how bad we are playing the fans give the team a chance, every game, from the off. What more can you do. It would be ridiculous, and may persuade the team that they are really playing well if we cheered them at the end of a terrible performance!!!! lol Leeds fans are no different to other fans, except maybe we put up with a LOT more rubbish and lies. Our fans are fantastic, hopeful and love the club. But we are not stupid. GFH please note. spellz Listen in all honesty Ev times change, I more than anyone wants to see us relive the glory years but we also have to take in to account our current situation which is we are not a premier league outfit and not too many moons ago we scraped out of a very poor league 1. Although the fans are hurt, which I can assure you I am too, if we have no bounce back ability from the fans then how can we expect our club to follow suit? Matthew Fans that pay good money to watch shit performances have the right to express their opinion on the internet, no one should be keeping quiet after watching the dire quality of the performances seen lately. You can only be positive for so long. Sunshine, smiles and happy unicorns will not get this side promotion, cold hard reality will. Dan Paying £30 odd a week to watch performances akin to the one on Saturday gives anyone the right to have a go at the team, the fans I’m worried about are the ones that still clapped the team after Saturdays ‘performance’, like they’d actually done something to deserve the support…. (apart from Mowatt). The sooner the players think “Sh*t the fans are really NOT happy, we need to start playing properly” the better imo. I do agree, however, that we need to realise that BMcD/GFH have a 2/3 yr plan and not think we were gunning for promotion this year. henrymouni I have never heard Brian advocating a 2/3 year plan. He had that bull foisted upon him. Very clever really, but not clever enough! Has anyone seen this plan? Any sane board would want promotion this season, if they want the pot of gold. They have no plan but this:- Should we be honest and say we have no money now, or anytime soon. We don’t have a rich investor round the corner, and we are not buying Elland Road back. With what? How can we put the fans off, while making it sound like going nowhere is a good thing? Nah!! Remember Ken and his war chest?? How about a vague, Hague, 2/3 year plan?? We should have escaped by then. SHOW ME THE PLAN!!!! Ev A 3 year plan to get promoted is Rubbish……. Wilkos five year plan wasnt directly related to promotion it was to do with making leeds a top club and involved developing the youth. Every year we arnt promoted makes it harder, to bridge the financial gap, to avoid losing generations of fans, to attract the best players and every season we dont go up we will lose good players to the premiership…….. You have to plan for immediate promotion to develop the natural momentum every club needs mrbigwheels Exactly….. as Henri says….. There is no bloody plan!, only a timescale that seems to blind most…. henrymouni Yes! When Wilko was approached we had a poor squad, but he was promised money to bring some top class players. The ground was jumping!!! Almost a new team. Wilko would not have come without the backing. As you say Ev, his 5 year plan, ran alongside an immediate improvement in the squad. Our plan seems to exclude the squad. Enlarging the pitches at Thorpe Arch, may prove to be helpful, but just now it is not. Bluesman Mike, we thought that we were going forwards not backwards! We wanted to see improvement not deterioration. OK, we get on people’s backs but some of them deserve it, unfortunately it is not Hunt, not Murphy, not Smith, not Green and not Austin, It is, though, GFH, because they could have given BM the chance to make this team into something that those players could thrive on. We are letting the players down. No width, nor creativity, no CF for God’s sake, It is GFH! B-Rad You’re right they were supposed to buy the team and cure all the issues overnight right? Unfortunately the more ignorant of our fanbase thinks we’re not subject to FFP and didn’t lose 3.3m(this i will blame Bates for) worth of ticket sales, so we’re just supposed to throw money around right? This season was about steadying the ship, getting things right behind the scenes, and beginning a new era at Leeds United building from the bottom up. Get the stars out of your eyes mate sometimes things take time and planning, i agree with Mike here. Ev Your right to a degree but can i ask what was the actual point of taking leeds over if they didnt have the means to propel the club forward ??? mrbigwheels I asked this on the previous thread. Why are they here?. My view is…. Simply….They need us to keep their Group bottom line together. Their only profit last year came from an increased valuation of Leeds United. They kept their heads above water and will no doubt do the same this year….. Surviving on the growing nett worth of the Academy products. On paper, obviously!. TSS No one expected an overnight fix, we expected steady improvement and haven’t got that. We’ve lost 5 of the last 6 fixtures and the only game we didn’t lose, we were lucky to escape with 3 points against a team with 10 men. It’s not good enough. Not even close. Does the FFP excuse the poor singings Brian McDermott has made? Can anyone make a case that Noel Hunt and Matt Smith are doing more for Leeds United than Steve Morison did? Does anyone believe they’d score 20 per season between them? That’s not improvement, it’s more of the same. McDermott didn’t have the funds to spend on the reinforcements we needed, but the funds he did have were spent on a position that didn’t need strengthening as much as others. A more effective striker or a winger would have served us better than a 13th central midfielder. But more than all this, the thing I really can’t tolerate is how badly we’re playing. McDermott will get a lot of good will from Leeds fans so long as he has the team performing well, but that isn’t happening. We’re defending like an U11’s side and look about as organised as the queue outside Elland Road for Wembley tickets a few years back. McDermott and the players don’t get a free pass just because of the FFP and a lack of funds. They’re still highly-paid professionals who can and should be performing better than they are. Five defeats in six games is unacceptable no matter what the conditions are. Mark I would argue that CM needed just as much strengthening as anywhere else, we may have a lot of them but look at most of the options(theres a reason why we couldnt sell them). Realistically every area on the pitch needed improvement if we’re to mount a true run at much of anything and there is no hiding that, I just think we need patience. 5 losses in 6 is very poor form and I agree, but i didnt hear all the moaners about how shit we are when we started the season 6 unbeaten. Good and bad runs will happen its part of football, if you think you’re upset about it imagine how Brian feels eh? henrymouni Every fan I have talked to thought we were poor from the very first game. We robbed Brighton, and our performances in general were bad. Very few shots on target, and soft goals. We started very defensively and everyone gave 100%. I said, at the time, that if we drop below 100%, we are in trouble. As soon as we go into attacking mode, we are wide open. Both Eddie and Thom also feel this way. You must be surrounded by optimists Mark. Brian is feeling the pressure, but I think he is the man for us. henrymouni ‘steadying the ship’ ? We are a sinking ship. Have you seen anything that tells you we are not one of the worst teams in the league? Our slide has started very early this year. We must get things right with the team NOW. Brian seems at a loss to know what his best team is, or the best formation. If we slide into Div 1 we will be ‘building from the bottom up’. Unless we get a sharp injection of cash, the game is up. Do you think the fans who spend their hard earned cash, are interested in watching this rubbish every week?? When GFH bought Leeds United they knew EXACTLY what all the debts were. They knew the team was poor. The brought Brain in early, to avoid disaster. What they did not do was to take steps, in the close season, to ensure it would not happen again. Don’t underestimate what the fans understand. The first team squad is the no1 priority. It is GFH’s responsibility to provide a good team who can compete in the top half of the league. I don’t think that is too ambitious? John To be fair, while I don’t like GFH, they did buy a team – Warnock’s! They thought, he’s got 7 promotions, back him and maybe we can get up this year. Then Bates thought of some new clause to add – the thing about him getting a share of transfer fees for ‘his’ players, I think – and GFH stopped. Don’t kid yourself it was the Snodgrass money that paid for Peltier, Pearce and all of the contracts given to the likes of Warnock. Bates took the Snodgrass money as profit on his ‘investment’. Bluesman PS: who is the Philippine with the nice chest? John Put her on the right wing. Could do worse, John “Terminating the contracts of [players] costs money, but it’s much less than they cost by keeping them on the books for another year.” I thought it cost exactly the same unless the player agreed to take a cut in exchange for the chance of another club. But as no one’s hiring and they are crap and on their last contracts they understandably want their contracts in full. Have I got this wrong? Can’t agree about the manager. Most of these players are too thick to understand how to use space effectively, and also demoralisd. Personally I think we should play Wootton (fresh from a club with decent coaching) and Peltier at centre back and surround them with our own kids (bring Lees back when he’s regained confidence). But if Mac thinks they aren’t ready they probably aren’t. Also he did say he thought he had more cash to spend in the summer. It isn’t his fault. Do have one criticism of the manager though, he keeps saying he won’t sign players who he thinks aren’t right. He needs to start screaming “because that’s what got us into this mess” loud enough for some of us to hear it. I have to remind myself daily… Really hope he doesn’t walk away. TSS Pretty sure a percentage is paid to them when contract is terminated. It’s a bit like being laid off I guess, but a much more expensive proposition for football clubs since a player’s basic salary is far higher than your average Joe. John If you’re right then we should have already said “Goodbye” (and some other things) to (at least) Dreary, Warnock, Pugh, Brown, Mrs Norris, Tonge and Ashdown (because we can always get an emergency keeper on loan). And since we haven’t, if you’re right I may start bellowing “sack the manager” some time soon. Depressing. What puzzles me most in all this is the absence of Taylor and Thompson from the first team squad. Thompson may be a crap right back but he was player of the year in midfield for Bury and I think I’m right in saying that Taylor can play left wing as well as left back and has had a couple of loan periods. We have White and Taylor, can we not at least banish Warnock and Dreary to wherever Mrs Norris is? How about Austin, Murphy, Mowatt, Taylor across midfield and McCormack and Smith up front (Smith being our only target man), with Byram, Wootton, Peltier and White as the back four? Oh well back to daydreaming. John And rotate the other young players of course, give runs in the side to Thompson, Lees, Poleon and anyone who may be ready. Or, here’s an idea, as McCormack says Byram can play anywhere, let’s see if he’s the Second Coming of Paul Madeley (what wouldn’t I give) and try him at centre forward? Irving08 He, he I remember PM at cf too…what a player. Indeed why not Byram at centre forward ?! John Why not Donald bloody Duck at the moment! Irving08 Good man, John. I agree (even though I harbour a soft spot for Pearce). There’s too much timidity about. We have nearly always been at our best when we have trusted in youth. And I believe the current crop could be on a par with the team Eddie began to assemble in the ’80s’ before he was cruelly sacked. John I’m currently thinking a variant – given that we have some potentially useful players who need a run – involves Lees and Pearce at c-back and Byram-Thompson-Mowatt-Taylor in midfield, with Pearce as captain! He did it OK against Everton, didn’t he? With Lees alongside him, and wasn’t Pugh left back? I fiind it hard to believe that game happened. Irving08 Agree on Pearce as captain. He did it at Pompey and – I believe – at Bournemouth. Thompson, I suspect, may just fall short; but we’d soon see. Rest is fine by me. Yes, Pugh was, but Aidy was on the right, scored a stunning goal and got precious few thanks for it. henrymouni Don’t worry about how we would cope if we got promoted this season. It will not happen with this squad. Don’t be fooled by the 2/3 year plan. It does not exist. There is no plan, except GFH off-loading Leeds. ‘The 2/3 year plan’ allows them to spend nothing for as long as possible. We cannot rely on our young players as we do not have enough of them to improve this team. If you can find 1 per year you are doing well. Mowett has a good build, which should help him do well. Dawson has chance too when he gets stronger after his injury. That’s about it for this season. It is a massive jump from the youth/reserves, to the Championship. They have to be prepared properly and not thrown to the lions too early. PMH Of course the owners have a plan. It is to make some money, hopefully by a miracle of getting into the premiership. Maybe it is better to call it a fantasy though. mrbigwheels Interesting comments. Blame who one likes but one fact is…. McD didn’t get this environment/sh1 at Reading. I see him as a very good manager for Leeds but far too nice and possibly not strong enough to stick with the abusive programme that will grow within the Leeds fan base. Shout me down but nothing has changed from last season…. Very little money, simular Warnock team, the dire cash flow Bates left the Club with and a growing impatient fan base. The manager is certainly honest, loyal and dedicated. I wish the owners could just join him to a better degree in that forthright, none fluffy, realistic approach. Too many PR stunts for me or did we used to call it… Smoke and Mirrors?. Same old then…. Blame who you like…. until that Big Investor walks through the door. henrymouni Good points Mr B. I’d love to know what Brian is really thinking? He is too ambitious to languish in mid table, and had tried to create the silk purse…. He has supported the squad and not singled anyone out for criticism. He always knew they were not good enough but hoped to inspire them to battle and play a bit of football. It worked for a while but you don’t become a good team overnight! They are just not good enough. mrbigwheels I should say… Thanks TSS for putting a different slant/view on the present compared to other websites. I’m interested in where can we go from here with the team we’ve got?. Can’t see anything else changing at Leeds until the next window and even then unless there is £5m slapped into McD’s hand very little can alter in the team layout… surely?. McD is between a rock and a very hard place. A team that is made up with many Warnock imports, several academy hopefuls and a little group of never going to be used/no one wants them, cash flow draining, deadwoods. Warnock was starved of real cash to do his ‘short term promotion chase’ and brought in numbers that were not his first choice. To be realistic Brian is in no better position than him but unfortunately stuck with players that are exponents of ‘hoofball’. Warnock could see no other way. He’s not stupid, (only a danger to himself), This is the only way he could see a result with the players and Becchio in the box. Brian wants and the fans want the ball on the floor but this squad give or take two or three are still the same bloody lot that ‘hoofed’ it last year and Becchio isn’t here anymore!. I see it on the pitch even now…. can’t wait to hoof it. At the moment the midfield might as well be bypassed. So is the enquiry for Becchio a very urgent requirement?. We were actually scoring goals and sitting up there…. until Warnock and Becchio ‘busted up’. With very little finance available, academy boys needing careful management and most of the present squad inept at passing the ball on the floor, yes… Mowatt is too good for them…. Is an all out for Becchio back the answer to this season?. Irving08 When Leeds played Turin away in 1965, seven of the team were under 22, and we won with 10 when the main senior man (Bobby Colins) was stretchered off after half time. So, while I agree on the need for ‘careful management’, as the old adage goes…. and I for one believe it is the only way to go. They just need a ‘General’ – if only Rudy had practised his passing.. Gareth Fookin right NottsWhite I think we all have to take some of the blame. Some fans of the club have no patience and expect to be challenging for promotion this season which was never realistic with the squad we have. However I also think that the fans patience has been erroded with 10 years of lies. GFH was seen as a fresh new start however they appear to have learned quickly from Ken Bates on how not to sufficiently invest in the squad. The 2/3 year plan is a con and an insult to those who buy tickets, merchanise, programmes and refreshments because they have clearly stated that even to challenge for promotion within the next few years is not an option but they still expect the fanbase to continue to support the club despite the lukewarm sentiment. I would be more receptive if they started to slowly build the squad to a position of strength in 2/3 years time however they have added 4 average players to a very average team, hardly a great start. I fear that the 2/3 year plan involves them selling their entire share of the club. GFH have improved the amount of communication with the fans however it is all very vague, investment is coming soon, new players are coming soon. I am starting to think that the word “soon” means something different in Arabic. The manager has to acknowledge that our style of play and the personnel used within the system is becoming very predictable, the meager amount of money given to him was wasted on players who might to good in the future (except Hunt) but are not adding value to the squad now. There seem to be a notion that there are no players available on loan who can improve the squad and that the performance issues of the current playing staff are due to mental fragility, I would suggest there is a lack of quality in the team. Irivng08 Lots of good comment, particularly on strategy.But is true to say that Bates told us lies ? Wasn’t he disliked for, amongst other reasons, the fact that he was brutally honest about his intentions ? He may have concealed certain truths about who or what owned the football club, but he concealed little else. The East Stand and our transfers out surely told us all we need to know – football came second to ‘growing’ the estate. GFH, as you imply, mainly feed us ‘bullshit’ – statements which are neither trrue nor or false, but are made for effect. And we have nor more idea of who are our major investor(s) is than we had under Bates before he declared himself our sole owner. Finally, and oddly, despite Bates’ belittling of us, GFH by shrinking the programme size and closing our own Radio may even have made us feel a ‘smaller’ club. NottsWhite Irivng08, fair point regarding Bates, I stand corrected. Matthew The main problem I had with Bates is that he simply did not give a shit about the playing side of the club, he was quite happy to let anyone of value leave the club and would not reinvest the money back into the squad. It was like the man thought running a football club was like playing Sim City but not catering to the needs of the towns people. People left in huge numbers, people were unhappy, and ultimately Bates failed. Had Bates understood the need to build a side capable of promotion I think a lot more people would of been accepting of him, I would of been even. People wouldn’t of loved the man but he’d just be the cunt that owned the club and really people wouldn’t of gave a shit if he was here or not as long as the side came before anything else. Ultimately what was the final nail in the Bates coffin was his destruction of the side. Ev Bates did lie……. the amount of times he stated we were not selling a player only to sell him later…. How about his ability to twist the truth about wages, how much we were spending on this or that ? He lied countless bloody times, im sure with the help of bloggers like TSS you could read an entire Essay listing his lies or twisted half truths……….the guy was a complete cretin and for me he did even more damage to this club than Peter Risdale henrymouni I have a few to add Ev:- He told us we were in profit! Lie. When we protested to him about season ticket prices, he said we have to pay top money if we want the best players at ER. Big lie. He said he would buy back the ground and the training ground. Lie He said he would only sell to investors with money to take the club forward. Lie. He said the fans attitude to him, was turning investors away. Lie. The war chest when we got promoted. A lie to encourage season ticket sales. Every time he sold one of our best players, pocketing the money and not reinvesting it, he blamed the players for being greedy. Lie. He saved the club!! Lie. No progress in 10 years. Truth. His takeover of the club, and who owned what. Lies. Irving08 All these things are true, yet I’m pretty sure most of us knew where we stood with Bates (which was pretty low). It was surely obvious what his plan was after promotion and I cannot honeslty believe anyone couldn’t see it. As MBW points out, we don’t know what if any plan GFH have. Anyway, lying is surely preferable to bullshit, since at least you can refute lies. Maybe it’s not a point worth making. Flippin-Pop-It-Bruva Doom or a bit of gloom anyone? Yes we have lost a few matches, but did any of you really believe that we had a squad capable of mounting a serious challenge for promotion? I also agree that Brians signings were poor in the summer but he had no infrastructure [ie any form of scouting system] to get the quality he required or the financial backing the club needed. I hear Cardiff have just sacked their head scout and he brought in some quality unknowns from not only this country but from europe too. I really think this has to be up there in Brians list of priorities, at least with Grayson i was always looking at his trialists thinking they could be a rough diamond. Im not going to lambaste the club just yet, just as i’m not going to get over excited when we win a few matches. This is all just the frustration of nobody actually thinking that investing in the team is the best way to get promotion. Its got so desperate that the investment GFH is talking about, isnt some rich Arab but our own supporters trust! A few matches ago the Ireland job came up and we were all shitting ourselves at the prospect of loosing Brian. Now a few more losses and a lot of us are starting to think that we mist the boat with Poyet. I hate being this fickle Leeds fan but its endemic of modern football, and why there is a merry-go-round of managers in english football. Im refusing to be part of the blame culture warnock instilled and sitting tight as we are very much a club in transition, the kids are coming through and that is something we must celebrate, if we were doing really well would the likes of Mowatt & Poleon even get a look in. They are the future and we have to stick by them….. John The trust, the kids and McDermott’s ability to get the best out of them are the real hope for the future. As for Poyet, after his antics at Brighton that’s all we need. And why do people like him? According to him Wise did 90% of everything when he was at the club. And, you know, they both played for Chelsea. If you’re going to hate Wise you should certainly hate Poyet. Flippin-Pop-It-Bruva Do you think it was Poyet’s poo? lol Poyet was an outstanding coach when he was at Leeds and got the best out of the players. John Coach. Coach. COACH. He wasn’t manager, AND he has said that Wise did a lot of the coaching. I don’t want him or Wise. And if Poyet did do the coaching… isn’t it the consensus that our playing style got found out when we started playing clubs twice? Who coached that? He can get lost. He’ll be a car crash at Sunderland, which suits me fine, I hate them and him! Matthew People understandably want to see progression, not us taking one step forward and ultimately two steps back. It’s not being fickle, it’s ultimately frustration stemming from the fact this club has been abused for a hell of a long time and it’s time for it to end, and it’s time to see visible improvements in the side and ultimately our standing in the football league. Put it this way, the side that won promotion from league 1 all those years ago, would destroy the side we have now. Flippin-Pop-It-Bruva Here’s the line up to the team that beat Bristol in league one, you might be right they probably would thrash us lol although i think we have a better defence now than then but we could only dream of a leeds that still had gradel, howson, snodgrass and becchio. Only Ross is equal in ability to these players. 12 Higgs 21 Lowry (Howson 54) 26 Bromby 33 Collins 04 Doyleyellow card 08 Kilkenny 16 Johnson 22 Hughes 28 Gradelred card 09 Beckford (Snodgrass 90+2) 10 Becchioyellow card (Watt 87) Substitutes 01 Ankergren, 17 Michalik, 14 Howson, 15 McSheffrey, 13 Grella, 23 Snodgrass, 24 Watt Matthew You can look at that team and think hey, that’s the team Ken Bates destroyed. There wasn’t much needed to improve that side and finish in the top 6, if we had that side now with 2 changes to the defense we’d be in the top 3 in this league, no doubt at all in my mind. Beckford, Becchio, Gradel, Snoddy would provide the goals. Howson and Johnson would do well in midfield. Add in Byram, Mowatt etc and we’d be golden. This is mostly my point, we had an almost Premier League quality side that has been reduced to this. And this is where the frustration from a lot of people is coming from, we’re losing against shit teams like Millwall because of the lack of progression. John Yes, but, Beckford provide goals? I think not. He left us at the right time to be remembered fondly. He has done nothing since. Actually it’s worse than you say, you forgot Delph, who Bates sold for £9 mill when we needed that much more to afford to buy back Elland Rd and Thorpe Arch… wonder where that Delphian cash went? Matthew Beckford scored goals under our system, he hasn’t done well since despite getting a hefty pay rise. I think had he stuck with us and continued to play along with Becchio etc in the Championship he would of been utterly brilliant for us. And yeah sorry apologies for missing a few, didn’t want to clutter the post with names to prove a point. And your guess is a good as mine, guessing Bates stashed it away somewhere? Lol John Good point – he would have been worth trying. But he hasn’t done much in all this time. Not blaming you for missing Delph, we could go on all day listing missing parcels of cash! )I reckon the Delph 9 M went on buying the ground – I remember it being reported that we were 9 M short, and then he was sold for that amount. Obviously the selling club never get the entire fee, but we couldn’t have been far short and the ground was sold on not long after. Shez87 Spot on! I’ve been saying to my fellow Leeds supporters down here in Oz for the past three years….we had a GLORIOUS chance of going up in our first season back in the Championship…..if we’d had followed the line that Norwich took that season…..and invested in the two or three extra players we needed to purchase in the Jan transfer window that season……WE would be in the Prem now….and there would be no need to act as Norwich’s feeder club!!! Lom Tees There’s really only one true thing to blame here and thats Tom Lees lets be honest. henrymouni Lets hope investment comes soon!! mrbigwheels Could someone please tell me what the plan is please. When was the whole plan set in stone and announced to the entire football fraternity?. Has the plan started and are we on target to date?. Many contributors including the writer mention and talk of the plan but I must admit I need help here. I’m deadly serious here. I haven’t got an A-Z clue of what the plan is that would appear as a business proposal to me and many others as a customer of this business. A proposal that would sway me to offer any support, physically and financially to achieve a target over a given timescale. If there is no plan then this is perhaps why the LUFC business is having great difficulty attracting financial investment…. to date. I am not looking to blame but the entire article and comments highlight how uninformed and ignorant most of us are regarding the fairly headless chicken happenings at Leeds United since pre-season. What we have is in fact a plethora of side shows, spinning tops and a main ring attraction resembling a circus show rather than enthralling trying your best entertainment. henrymouni I thought I gave you the plan Mr B? mrbigwheels Yes you did Henry, graphically even but the plan you outlined to me and everyone else who saw and read that plan (yours), seems to be talking about or following a different plan?. Hence my upto date confusion Henri. In fact I’m now not only asking ‘what is the plan?’, but actually…. ‘where is the plan?’. Thank you so much Henry for trying to help but I’m going to wait for the plan to be explained by the masses who understand the plan and then my confusion will hopefully disappear. Marching on Together…. Henry. henrymouni Scoring the World wide wobble, I found this which should clarify things for you Mr B:- “Rules are now in place to effectively rule out anyone from splashing huge amounts of money on over-inflated wages. Leeds is therefore in prime position to benefit from being a big club, which gives the owners a bigger revenue outlay to use effectively.” Dream on! Clear enough to me. It is in ‘cunning plan’ territory! mrbigwheels Well Henry, I’ve been dreaming on and wow!, everything is as clear as…. Kens big glasses. I started to feel the pain but as I slumbered on the white, blue and yellow haze lifted to reveal a brightness so intense I felt giddy. I wondered if others may be experiencing what I could see. With great clarity ‘the plan’ unfolded before me….. The Elland Road circus show had gone, The cheering masses were now bereft of humour and gaiety, Tom lees wasn’t chatting away to his teammates any more, And.. the mighty ER stands we’re scattered with occasional fans passing meagre comments on the hoofball passes that were sealing the challenge to the glorious football heaven above us. Despite our Chairman having improved his confusing English, I was still having great difficulty understanding a word of the announcements at half time. What was being said?, I wondered. Was there to be a parade of Leeds Legends?, a second 360 wave to the faithful few?, a glimpse of the trophy we were fighting to lift and secure?, or even a proposal to emulate a Mexican wave to cheer the team on…. No. The announcer was in fact advising a change was imminent to the structure of the Club and very shortly a wealthy investor was about to reveal himself in the East Stand that would enable the Club to go forward and reclaim its deserved place in the Championship division. Was this going to mean…. a change to ‘the plan’… in hand?. It was at this point I became very uncomfortable and a darkness overwhelmed me that was alarming. What had actually happened was… the lights had failed due to none payment of due electicity invoice. A bugger really as the hoofball was getting quite exciting and seeing we had scored the fans were in semi delight. How were we now going to listen to fresh announcements of new plans, or most important…. see the identity of our life changing benefactor?. An outline of a short podgy form, perhaps with a grey beard was partially visible for just a few fleeting moonlit seconds?. Nah?. Heady dreaming Henry can sometimes turn sweetness into cold sweaty emotions that have the tendency to tweak the heart beat and leave us devoid of humour and turn our attentions to every dark corner the mind has. Everything will be ok…. We have McD and Paddy in goal with a Plan to match… For now. NottsWhite I was pondering the question that mrbigwheels posed below and I think the plan has had a number of manifestations, I may not have all my facts straights so please bare with me. First “the plan” was for GFH to broker a deal between Ken Bates and an unknown buyer, the buyer then got cold feet due to skeletons in the cupboard or Ken changing the price. “The plan” then changed to GFH buying out Ken with a view to striking a deal with the original unknown investor, however they were unable to secure a deal. “The plan” then changed to GFH finding investors to purchase small stakes in the club as they found the riches of the premier league were within their grasp, however they have realised that they do not have the funds to improve the squad to achieve promotion and therefore “the plan” is now an exit strategy as they have reduced their holding to 50% and they are speaking to LUST for the sale of another 10%. How does the club stand a chance when the owners seem to have a plan that is constantly changing ? mrbigwheels Thank you for replying NottsWhite. You are indeed a non confused fan that can offer a better insight into what ‘the plan’ is. You are brave. Very few want to talk about it. Henry and I have been trying to represent many other confused punters and indeed we have been talking about it on here. I can’t wait for those with the knowledge of ‘the plan’ and as it is appearing… slowly being revealed….. which bloody plan?…. To actually grasp this thorny mirage and if there is something missing… Tell Us All About It and what it means for the Club… In the future. Stop hiding. Come out and reveal All. Accurate, Cunning, Shifty, 2-3 year, Going forward, Flexible and Flash in the Pan are all titles to ‘the plan’ that are emerging to cover the apparently stated plan GGHC have been talking about, dragging the media, bloggers, supporters trust chairmen and many of the fans into a hype of Batesesque proportions that a plan other than….. the manager is the right man for the job and we are very pleased with him (at the moment), many are seizing the dynamic of this business and we have a team that is capable, we have a team that should have beaten Millwall, and good exciting investment may be very close…. Is actually in existence!……..???. As they say in Lincolnshire, I may have this subject ‘on my craw’ but when are we going to fully grasp….Now we are in the Blame Game…. of shouting out Where is the bloody plan, you are pulling our legs and can’t actually understand what you the owners are up to or actually saying. Stop the BS that is effecting everyone… The Manager, the Squad and the restless Support… Inclusive. Put up or shove off. Irving08 Is there anything more needs saying ? mrbigwheels No Irving. The masses will react shortly. Thank you for your logic. henrymouni Just that if we don’t get an influx of cash, there is no plan Irv. Matthew Though I don’t buy the ‘plan’ as things stand now, we need to pack the midfield to cover our somewhat fragile defense,.he needs to build the confidence back up with a run of results our way before reverting back. The diamond formation just won’t work as is. Irving08 But without a plan where do you look for the cash ? NottsWhite Non-confused but bloody frustrated ! Irving08 Bravo ! Matthew With our current squad I would say: Kenny, Byram, Peltier, Pearce, Warnock, Poleon, McCormack, Austin, Murphy, Mowatt/Diouf, Somma would be decent against Brum. Assuming Somma gets a contract, 4-5-1 there. Let Somma be the lone Striker. Irving08 Bless you, Mathew. It wouldn’t be my team, but all the same, bless you. TS Eliot might have penned these words about McCormack , ‘They play him here, they play him there, but they cannot find his best position anywhere.’ Matthew Okay Irving, what would be your team for Brum with the players we have now? Take into account the performance of the team in general and our poor run of results. I don’t see what’s wrong with packing the midfield. The team I suggested could get goals. I’m merely making allowances for Somma with the 4-5-1 formation, it’s not his natural position as a loan striker but considering our shit performances lately something has to change. Matthew Without Somma the more likely team would be. Kenny, Peltier, Pearce, Wootton, Warnock, Byram, Austin, Mowatt, Tonge/Green, McCormack, Diouf. 4-4-2. Irving08 I would play White instead of Warnock; Taylor in front of White. I would play Murphy instead of Tongue/Green – and I would play Green instead of Austin: Pearce would be my captain. Maybe i would play Poleon, like Rod Wallace, upfront with, I suppose, McCormack. Diouf’s skills are not , in my view, sufficient to compensate for his slowing down. Of course, in a few games time I would play Dawson, probably instead of Green. I don’t have a view on Somma. henrymouni Somma will not be fit for another 2/3months – sadly!