Homegrown keeper in Simon Grayson's sights? TSS July 7, 2011 Transfer News 64 Comments Sky Sports are reporting that Simon Grayson has made Fulham’s David Stockdale his new number one target to replace the departed Kasper Schmeichel. The Whites are reportedly requesting a season long loan deal for the Leeds-born 25 year old. Earlier today it was reported that the deal to bring Andy Lonergan to Elland Road had hit a bump as the club and player were struggling to agree personal terms. It’s been suggested that the stumbling block in negotiations may have been Lonergan’s wage demands as he is believed to be Preston’s highest earner pocketing £15,000 per week. We can only speculate at the moment, but reading between the lines it seems the proposed transfer of Lonergan may have fallen through, thus forcing Simon Grayson to focus his attention elsewhere. Stockdale does have some Premier League experience with Fulham but has spent the majority of his three seasons at the club on loan with Leicester City, Rotherham United and Plymouth Argyle. Simon Grayson however faces stiff competition for the Fulham keeper with Premier League new boys, Swansea City also in the chase. saltburnwhite Now thats what i would call a signing ! however i would only consider it a marquee signing if it was a permanent move. stockdale i think is a top notch young english keeper , who got called up to the england sqaud on their last outing only to have to pull out due to getting married . this is EXACTLY the type of player we need Hope everyone else agrees this would be a quality signing but only on a permanent contract and not a stupid friggin loan!! ph he’s from leeds & supports leeds…. still not 100% proven !!! reiver If Swansea are interested we might as well forget it. Does Grayson deliberately target players we have little chance of signing just to look good to the supporters? We saw this ritual last season. Tyler75 Why not Stockdale on-loan for a season ? One of the best young ‘keepers in the country. If we get up then we would have the wherewithal to buy him if he’s done the business for us. Leeds born, surely he would like the opportunity to get his home town team into the Prem ? steve underwood Would take hime even for one season,but lets be honest we have no chance of getting him he will go to a prem team,im with reiver on this one trying to keep fans happy i anm sorry but we are starting to look stupid,the name of LEEDS UNITED will only carry you so far when trying to sign players unless you offer good wages and show some ambition then good players will no longer come to LEEDS UNITED mark rea Once again a loan signing. Bates and the Twat Grayson are making Leeds Utd a laughing stock. I sat listening gob smacked today to Bates explaining how at best Leeds were playing for Play off place and how we were on an uneven field with the parachute payments etc. With his policy of loans and freebies we will not make the play offs. Apparently also the only ex player who showed even the remotest interest in returning to Leeds was bad boy Bowyer but obviously wages were problem and he wanted 2yr contract. It is obvious that playing for Leeds and Bates is not an attractive prospect. Another new strip!!! I wont buy it and i urge everyone else to hit Bates where it hurts the most in the wallet. Colin I said it at the time and I’ll say it again. NEVER sell your No.1 keeper (Kasper) until you get your replacement No.1 keeper. Especially, when you released your No.2 (Higgs). Why? Because you’re held to ransom – you have no bargaining power when you don’t have a keeper. If we still had Kasper, we would have got Lonergan by now. Of course, every agent is going to up the price, because Leeds NEED a keeper. So we’ll end up with a keeper on over inflated wages. So Ken, losing Kasper is ‘no big deal’ eh? Now we’ll be paying an extra £3,000 a week or so on top of the normal wage. And that means an extra £500,000 a year. AND Agent’s fees. Well done. We sold a keeper, that wanted to be at Leeds and that no-one wanted to sell, to a competitor for £1m. Selling Kasper wasn’t just a bad footballing decision, it’s fast becoming a bad financial decision as well. Now that is a big deal in my book. Gryff “I said it at the time and I’ll say it again. NEVER sell your No.1 keeper (Kasper) until you get your replacement No.1 keeper. Especially, when you released your No.2 (Higgs).” I didn’t agree with the general reasoning at first as I genuinely believed that we had targets 75% stitched up. Clearly we hadn’t and you’re right. We’ve now gone from some good keepers, to losing out on Lonnergan and looking at a season long loan. A season long loan would be a decent deal IMO, but part of the reason we “cashed in” on Schmeichel was because he only had a season left on his contract. TSS “We sold a keeper, that wanted to be at Leeds” I beg to differ. Players that want to stay at football clubs sign extended contracts and regardless of what Kasper wants you to believe, the club made the enquiry and it was apparent an agreement would be unreachable. Whilst this was a claim made by the club, Kasper’s own statement and particularly the line ‘I wanted to see out the remainder of my contract at Leeds’ confirms it for me. Kasper was an odd one for me. He tried to control his own media via Facebook and Twitter but wasn’t very good at it and I always got the feeling he was trying to play one side against the other. Hell, he even started a mass argument between fans once on Twitter because someone said he’d had a bad game (which he had). You also have to take into consideration the lack of fight he put up to stay at Leeds. He ran off to Leicester in no time, signing a much longer contract than he ever wanted to at Elland Road. Hardly ‘wanted to play for Leeds’ in my book. That said, not having any cover does make us weak. We should have had his replacement lined up first, I totally agree with that part. Colin My numbers weren’t right, it’s not an extra £500,00 but you get my drift. TSS – I do think Kasper genuinely wanted to be here. But I also believe that Grayson didn’t rate him that highly, therefore he had no other option to leave. I think he would have definitely signed an extended contract if we’d have offered the same as whatever Leicester have offered. We didn’t and now he’s gone and he was pushed rather than walked. We’ll see how it all pans out, but if we get a keeper as good as Kasper, I’ll be amazed. I think it’s an inspired signing by Svennis. And if Leeds weren’t happy with Kasper not being on a long contract then they should never have signed him in the first place. They seemed pretty happy with the Schmeichel deal this time last year. derbyshirewhite Would it be too cynical to think Bates might just plant this story in order to improve his negotiations with Lonergen? Sign this lad or I’m on the phone to Casillas next. Colin I reckon we’ve no chance of getting Stockdale. Spoke to a Swans fan ages ago and they were all over him as soon as they lost their keeper to Wolves back in June! Swansea confirmed days ago that they had spoken to Fulham, so we’re miles behind in the negotiations. A good news day for Paul Rachubka!! White to the core How many goals did lonergan let in last year? Dave Utter farce. Rather than having a top quality replacement lined up (as we were led to believe) it seems the club are beginning to panic. To me it seems that Grayson has been given a brief to draw up a list of possible replacements, for bates to then pick the cheapest. Bates thought he had his man on the cheap, but as always the cash is the stumbling block. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to go down the ridsdale road again, but you can’t build a team fit for the premiership and pay league one wages. Don’t even get me started on the dudek link… cav Loans, frees, undisclosed fees. Im voting for a NO CONFIDENCE IN GRAYSON!! Dave I have confidence in Grayson, but he is being given a very hard time by bates. In my opinion bates is taking advantage of the fact that Grayson is a Leeds fan – any other decent championship manager would have walked by now. I het the feeling Grayson has to work allot harder than other managers this time of year. Getting quality players to sign for a pittance (in fottballers terms) can not be easy. Gryff Where’s the evidence that Grayson’s not being given a good transfer fund by Bates? I know the history is against Bates, but last season Grayson spent at least £750,000 (McCormack & Collins) and probably significantly more. This season he has sold Schmeichel for around £1million, and hasn’t signed anybody other than Rachubka. There is money there. What’s he doing with it? Matt BB that moneys gone to the stadium redevelopment, where else? if we were going tp spend that £1M on a direct replacement for Schmeicel, we would be sat here now with Lonergan on our books a £200K Fee and a year on £15K a week equals £728K. I actually think Bates means that Grayson has £1m to spend on player / contract, ie a £200K fee would leave you £5K a week for a 3 year contract, youch! saying that you also have kaspers wages (believed to be £15K a week) now out of our cashflow so that ctually leaves you with nearly £20K a week to play with in your wage bill. On that basis I cant see why we wouldnt meet lonergans demands, it also suggests to me that unless someone else is coming in with serious wage demands that w are having to balance the books to fund the redevelopment. Gryff I disagree, but only because my own opinion of Grayson isn’t that he’d roll over and take that sort of thing. Redeveloping a stadium we don’t own. Well, I’m sure [i]somebody[/i] owns it and that that [i]somebody[/i] isn’t at the Club… Duval Think we had Westwood done deal until Sunderland came in at last minute and blew us out of the water, now we are turning into a laughing stock. Thought BJ and killa were easy replaceable but am dreading who we will eventually get instead! OH DEAR White to the core You know a year ago half the people on here were harping on about how Bates was Leeds saviour and how he would take us into the premiership. I was repeatedly told to get off the Scratching shed for my continual critisism of the Bates regime and the transfer policy. Where are all his supporters now a year down the line?? Dje Christ a year is a long time in the current history of Leeds United! I’ve no idea what’s happened to the Bates apologists, but I’m sure with two choice signings and he’ll be praised once more. What a fickle bunch we are. And I’ve been on here for well over a year and I can’t remember anyone getting told to scram for their opinions – with the exception of some Man Utd, Newcastle and Scum fans – daily disagreements and a few harsh words, but nothing to get all sensitive over. Altrinchamandrew Total disgrace. Biggest supported club in the Football League and we cannot compete on wages to sign a L1 goalie. I’m seriously worried that we will be unable to replace the players we’ve lost . If this continues bottom 3 by the end of August. Time to go Mr Bates. Matt BB Stockdale? dream on, yet again we try to get a loanee on and its all about the player being on the cheap rather than the player they want. SO lonergan is the goalie grayson wants, and he wants his preston salary matching? pay up. We as supporters are paying £30> a ticket to watch second tier dross, so why dont bates & co invest it, sick of saying this, as it seems like no one out there cares enough to stand up and buy him out, he’s like doug ellis was at aston villa, an albatross round our necks, all about the bottom line and risk averse, unless it comes to the stadium redevelopment. Gryff Who’d buy Leeds from Barbados Ken when the training facilities are owned by – hmm – a tax haven, and the stadium is owned by – hmm – a tax haven. He’s here to stay IMO unless you have a very determined and rich person willing to risk coming in, spending a tonne of money, and being hounded out of the club when they lose the stadium or something like that. Mark If Leeds arent able to meet Longerans (I only let in 60 goals in 33 games before i got dropped) contract demands how on earth will we be able to match Stockdales. Completely and utterly fed up with Graysons constant “spin” on transfers. Leeds clearly didnt have a replacement lined up when they cashed in on Kasper. Leeds took the easy money on offer and now were scrabbling round for a bargain basement replacement. If this is Leeds “strategy” for improving our defence for next season I dread to think what bates and grayson have got up their sleeves for central midfield. The squad have been back in pre season training for a week now. Friendly matches start next week when the club should be looking to develop its tactics, team structure, match fitness and developing/improving an understanding of how the team will play together etc. Unfortunately Leeds dont have a defence or central midfield in place (for the sake of repeating myself White, Parker, Clayton, and Nunez will not improve the first 11 from last season) that is an improvement on last season, the opposite in fact. We dont have a keeper, left back or a central midfield pairing and the central defenders at the club will be older and slower than last season, and last season they were complete shite. We have plenty of attacking options, no worries there (until we sell them), I just dont see how is the team supposed to improve on last season when we are a month away from kick off and half the team still isnt in place yet. What can possibly go wrong with this approach I wonder. In Grayson I despair!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mike Nunez He will be the surprise of the season. Id also rather see the likes of Ben Parker and Ady White (who will give everything)in the team than kilkenny or johnson….. both those players constantly blew hot and cold in terms of performance. I still think the play offs are a reasonable target. number1inyorkshire we are now on to fourth choice wtf sports direct tomorrow goalie gloves and boots i at this rate will get a game and i recon rabubuchubbuba or whatever will be number 2 to me as-well . this is all about bates and grayson and their wage structure but not only wages but length of contracts why are we only giving these players 2 years which means they can play a full season and then in january the second season they can sign for someone else on a pre contract and walk for nowt kasper had he been on 3/4 years will have stayed or gone for 2/3 million . we need to be signing players on fair wages and decent contract lengths this will benefit all . Colin Would anyone on this board rather have another keeper than Kasper or were you happy with him? I never saw anyone in Leeds’ sights that could have been better than Kasper. NOW Grayson & Bates may be starting to realise that Kasper should never have been sold, even if he walked on a free at the end of the season. Dje I heard it was as much about his ego as it was about his ability, colin. Gripe as I might about Grayson, I have to say he is quite regular about trying to keep a good bunch of lads and morale high. Ego trips and strops about criticism would do your head in – unless you kept a clean sheet each time or banged in 25+ a season – alla Beckford. I’d have kept him, but I can see why they let him go. To be honest, unless we sort out our defense and central midfield, it is a bit irrelevant who we get to go between the sticks. Given the choice of a new expensive keeper or an experienced central defender or midfielder, I’d let Rachubka have his season of and take the defender or midfielder. The outcry about our ludicrous knockbacks in finding a keeper is more aobut our inability to find anyone for any position than just about the keeper. Matt BB selling schmeicel was just a ruse to raise £1M cash for the stadium. In the hope we could pick upa freebie from somewhere else. Mike Told Ya! Bates is a mean and greedy bastard and larry is a toadie muppet who would rather keep the job and have us relegated than eff off. That suits bastard bates fine. Matt BB Mike, definitely agree with you on Bates, he is clearly cash deficient this summer due to the new development, but Larry clearly loves Leeds United, and I cant think of another manager who would put up with the indignity of being outspent by Brighton, Southampton or Doncaster. He’ll have the inside track on how much money gets P*ssed away on non football issues, so I actually feel sorry for him, he’s as much as stool pigeon as the rest of us in Bates plan, we pay up our dosh, and come on those tickets are all way too expensive wherever they are, or whether theyre season or just matchday. I can see it coming now, that Bates will blame grayson for a poor season in which we play with a back four of, Conolly, O’Brien, Bromby, Parker, a mid of Snodgrass, Howson, Clayton, Gradel and Becchio and Somma u front, with virtually no cover in any of the positions, claiming that the transfers were all down to him. I note on here all the ire direted at grayson for not signing players in the transfer window, all the while Kens in the background saying he’ll support his manager, well I’m sorry thats just total b*llocks from Bates. Loan signings arent true support. He’s building a grand theatre at the moment with the east stand, but has failed to invest in a production for the specators to watch, in effect a total white elephant. Gryff – youre right mate It’ll take someone with balls of steel to kick out Bates now, but a day will come, hopefully soon when he tells us all hes selling up…. and Shaun Harvey Takes over…! LOL EsholtWhites relegation battle this season im afraid. best free transfers are gone, we can only really hope for unproven players who are willing to accept dogmess as a wage. Thankfully we have the shiny new east stand to look forward to, a sight each time i arrive in leeds train station i feel sick at seeing, hopefully i’ll win the euro lot and be able to buy the club from scrooge and possibly buy a player or two CJ Wake up lads!!! Bates isn’t gonna spend fck-all in wages on anybody so chances of us signing Stockdale are zero! Ps. Stockdale might be born in Leeds but he’s actually a Huddersfield Town supporter!!! leeds_lad The time has arrived for a concerted effort by the fans ( and the local press ) to remove Bates from our club. He is clearly only interested in personal gain, has always been “economical with the truth” ( at best ), and has continually used his ridiculous “club savior” spin to influence the more gullible supporters on the terraces. Unless we can remove Bates, who simply looks at Leeds United as a “cash cow”, we will never move forward as a club. CJ There’s been a “BATES OUT” campaign on other websites for a while. Facts are until he either drops dead or fcks-off then we’re stuck with the cunt. Loved them diamond floodlights Earlier comment and I said it last week get the rest of the team right and the keeper isn’t so critical a good defence will usually clear the ball then what you really need is a good shot stopper correct me if I’m wrong but most keepers are good shot stoppers I liked kasper but I think he got a few backs up nothing I hate more on the pitch than seeing members of the same team shouting and bawling at each other in a manner that deflects from there own mistakes/poor judgement that goes for any area on the pitch It is a disgrace not to have a deal sewn up to replace kasper I feel totally sorry all the people who have bought a season ticket , when will we know for sure if we have managed to keep the rest of the team together?that’s the biggest worry ! Henry Is there anyone on here who really thought things would be different this year? We will spend little or no money! The way we recruit is this:- The manager decides which positions we need to strengthen. Then he makes up LONG list for each position. Then he goes down that list until he finds someone who will accept our terms! When that great day arrives he says “He was my first choice”! That is why it takes long. By now we are 4 or 5 down each list. We end up with the players who nobody else wants. Just read that Simon is giving Bessone another chance. Might as well, we cannot get rid of him. Looking forward to a new season though!!!!! Dje Yeah, this weeks official Leeds site’s feed has all been about great opportunities for the young ‘uns or outcasts to stamp their authority (Clayton, Bessone) or the injured to reclaim a place (Parker, Kisnorbo). You can fully understand why someone otherwise hitting above their weight such as Paynter reckons he still has a chance of being a regular. Hell, Grella, hang about kid!! The most depressing part of it is that whilst you have to acknowledge that we are in no position to compete with the transfer kitty of Leicester or the wages offered by West Ham, we aren’t even competing with the likes of Watford, Doncaster or Peterborough. Each day mid-table to being just short of the playoffs seems more and more likely as a realistic target in what is going to be a tougher, more competitive league than last season. If it wasn’t for the fact that we do have Premiership talent in Howson, Snodgrass, Gradel and I’d argue Becchio and McCormack and Nunez might surprise us too, I’d be a little less concerned about how this summer is panning out. But if we don’t go up this season then each of those players will be off and we will be left with a couple of post-Grayson seasons of trying to sort through all the League One standard players we have amassed – with no recognizable talent in us to compete in the Championship promotion campaign let alone Premiership. This really is becoming more and more Blackwellian. Ron For my own sanity, I have actively tried to love this club less this year. I am sick and tired of a team that has the highest gate in the league chasing unwanted chips like seagulls when our rivals simply take aim and shoot. If anyone on here is fluent in Arabic or Chinese can they please say so? I would like to make some ‘For Sale’ signs to entice a buyer with big pockets and preferably no prior knowledge of Football (Think air-conditioned stadiums and football in the desert – yes, those kind of retard). The sooner we find a sugar-daddy, the sooner we join the Premier League, which in fact has two divisions, led by those with sugar-daddies. I have tried in vain to be understanding, but enough is enough. Fcuk off Ken and let a real man take over. Dje Just out of interest, anyone got a guess at what Leeds United is worth? As in, how much it’d cost to buy (if we pretend for a second that Bates is a reasonable man, and after only a reasonable profit on his ‘investment’)? Gryff Well. Could be talking out of my arse as usual but I’ll go through a few steps, supposing a reluctant seller and a buyer with a nice chequebook: Players at a valuation, not to purchase: Say, Ratchubber 300k, O’B pick of defence at 1.5mil (experience in Prem), and the rest at half a mil-ish Midfield of Snoddy & Gradel at 6mil, Howson at 4mil, the others averaging around 500k again (not proven). The Forwards Becchio 4mil, McC & Somma 2mil & Paynter 1penny. I wouldn’t take some of those figures for sale but as a valuation of the assets in a sale, I think it’s fair. That leaves the squad valued at 29mil, 650k, and 1 penny by my high estimate. Then our actual assets. Well, we don’t have a stadium – we rent it, though we do have a buy-back price still I think? So add another 5mil on, because Buyer must still purhcase the stadium. We don’t own any training facilities, so we can’t flog that. So that’s £35mil for the sake of argument. That leaves buying the “badge” and that’s where it gets tricky. If Leeds could be bought for £35mil I think we might already have a few buyers lined up. But Mr Bates can quote something stupid and he now officially owns the club so we don’t even have the charade of going to the “shareholders”. Matt BB leeds do actually own the piece of land adjacent to the stadium on which the new conference tent, erm pavilion, is sited. Thats effectively a tin shed and could be used as a warehouse, size wise i’d price the building at about £300K incl the land its on, I believe the shop is also still a leeds asset. When you buy a club, like any business, its other itangible asset is as you say the brand, but also the turnover, which for is is considerable, and around £25M per annum i seem to recall? so add that on to your £35M and your closer still. Then think about the lease that you have to buy out on the ground as a cost, and the training ground, again theyre a cost so i think ken will be thinking closer to the £100M mark to sell Leeds. If the rumours are ture and in some bizarre chain of probability he does own the ground, he will milk an investor for those, and/or build them into the price! Leeds are a rarity in football terms, they make a profit, never mind the one club city thing or how famous we are, i think that in itself should attract an investor, I suspect that investor would carry out exercise 1 first though and try and buy the ground from under uncle ken, and they wouldnt get it at preferential rates. I note Man City raised £100m by renaming their ground the etihad stadium, i wonder if we could rename our palace of football for a fee, more sympathetically of course? The Ken Bates Memorial Stadium..? number1inyorkshire leeds united i believe own nothing in leeds .all the land around is owned by leeds council .the stadium is owned by JACOB ADLER ???????????????. so therefore in real terms it is an absolute mystery why bates and co continue to build on land we do not own in a stadium we do not own . lufcboy Wow – I think you have over-valued Paynter Ron Shall we all chip in Dje? Or hang on, we are already doing that. Roll on the camels! Dje The problem is that the new boys in world economics are either hard-nosed capitalists like the Chinese who just can’t see the point of vanity projects such as an English Premiership club that makes no money. It’s far better to buy up large tracts of Africa for its ores or food production capacity than daft football teams. Can’t blame them either. This will change but it’ll take a decade or two of what we westerners patronisingly call ‘gentrification’ – a process where they take their foot of the economic gas and start getting a taste for playing lord of the manor and vanity edges out ambition and opportunity; just like the Russians currently have a taste for our clubs – makes them not only big boys in Russia but in the world arena – and to a lesser extent the Indians who don’t seem to have worked out yet that we aren’t likely to want to buy more Indian produce on the back of them owning our club or having their sponsor on our team’s shirt. That works in India and Brazil, especially with their cricket teams because they so abysmally fail to redistribute wealth to the masses in poverty. They are the lord of the manor, but it isn’t a very exquisite estate at the moment. Which leaves those jumped-up thieving criminal Sheiks with their oil money and a head coked out on delusions of divine right and universal adoration (as they oppress the majority of their people). A bit like Dubai itself, I’m not sure they’re actually built on any substance so I’d be as wary of some chancer coming along buying our club who’d be no better than the one we already have. steve underwood Its all a bit gloomy today but lets not forget i still think the squad only neeeds maybe 4 or 5 new players,if we can get parker kisnorbo back to there best and lees is has good as people seem to think then things dont look as bad,hopefully clayton can show us that he can play in the championship and as long as we keep the front players i think we will be ok.On the leicester point yes they are buying up everthing that moves but they may or may not gel then the preasure will really be on them,spending millions is not allways the answer Dje I like your optimism Steve, it is to be honest what we are left to turn to this summer. Your idea of seeing if kids such as Clayton and Lees and old crocks like Kisnorbo can make the grade is exactly what Grayson is doing, exactly the cautious and over-optimistic line he always follows – it is why he got the job and Bates’ approval. The problem is that it leaves no plan B. If they aren’t good enough – and it is unlikely that they are ALL good enough, so we will still be left with gaps – then what? We failed on most of last summer’s transfer coming in making the grade, we failed to land a single signing come the January transfer window when promotion was in our grasp, so suddenly we are going to find our feet in late August and go against our/Grayson’s record and buy someone of use? At which point, how long will it take them to gel as a unit in the same way you problemise Leicester’s new faces? It is deeply worrying that the central midfield and the defense have not been sorted out yet, as these are key positions that require ‘understanding’ between a number of players in their respective positions. A striker or a keeper, or a winger stood out on the flank can be accommodated far quicker or with far less consequences if it takes time for this to happen [ if a striker doesn’t score but your defense is sound, you’ll still end up with a 0 – 0 draw at worse]. Defensive partnerships invariably take months to operate as a unit, central midfield partnerships can take seasons if the personnel just don’t compliment one another. Ours, apparently will have a couple of weeks at best. Tis worrying. Ross I really strugle to understand a lot of the negativity directed at grayson on this forum, do none of you remember all of the managers from O’leary to Grayson? Have we not progressed every eyar hes been here. Regardless of what he does some people just seem to have it in for him. Last season these self same folk were saying we would go straight back down without massive investment, then rather than admit at the end of the season that hed done a cracking job on limited funds, they slate him for missing the playoffs. Leeds play good attacking football have some talented players and will be there or there abouts again this season with a few additions. Yes Bates is an issue, Yes more transfer money would be good, But are these things to blame Grayson for??? Dje It’s facile to compare the current manager as a success with the dross that our Chairmen have employed in the past. No one is calling for the return of Blackwell, Reid, MacAllistair, Venables or Wise (although a few would be curious about Poyet), just as not many were calling for them in the first place. Not being as bad as former bad managers does not make you a good manager. Your accusations of ‘negativity’ need qualifying. Doubts over our manager are not based on his past success. I’ve never heard anyone say he should have been sacked as we only finished second in the League One promotion, we all knew it was about promotion and not finishing top, therefore the promotion was the success and Grayson was universally praised, and rightly so. Isn’t it possible to congratulate Grayson on his achievements and yet be critical or pessimistic about where he can take us further? Or is that just scooped up as a general bevy of negativity? There are ground to question whether Grayson can take us further too. 1. He has never taken a team up to the Premiership, never managed in it either. Yes we had some great and unforgettable games against Premiership and did well and did us proud. But let’s not over play it, statistically every lower league football league team is likely to have its day, just as every big football club is statistically likely to eventually be defeated by a non-league club in a cup, in certain weather and with a certain bad ref and with a certain poor pitch (Histon anyone?). 2. Almost the entirety of his squad that took us up and took us close to the playoffs was inherited from others hard work (most notably MacAllistair). Gradel is the exception, but I’ve no doubt that Grayson was as job smacked as the rest of us were about how good his impact his first sub appearance was when on loan – every time he got the ball suddenly everything fell in place and we looked likely to score. Keeping him was a no-brainer, but credit to Grayson that at least he did. Which leads to his transfer failings and the big, big question whether he can replace our departing/ed players and if not have we a hope in hell of still going forward? 3. Grayson has failed over the course of 18 months to sort out our defense. That is just unforgivable; there was money there, there were wages there, he has brought in at least half a dozen defenders and still failed. Again, how is our new super improved midfield looking as yet? steve underwood I agree ross when grayson took over we were 9th in league one lost in the play offs,then in his first full season gets us promoted beat man u take spurs to a replay,then finish 7th in championship with little money to spend not sure wat people expect,yes he has bought bad players so have man u bessone for noe was voted best left back in championship maybe its just a confidence thing for him playing at ellend road,lets see were we are in august before we condem grayson Tyler 75 I wonder how well Mourinho would do on a Bates budget ? There is an argument that if Grayson’s not happy with what he’s been given to work with, he should walk -he wouldn’t be out of work for long – but for him, this is his perfect job, so why should he ? Maybe he knows something we don’t and is simply prepared to outwait Bates – here’s hoping ! krustytheclown I cant believe a lot of you are bitching about bates and grayson,Grayson has took us up to the championship in his first full season and then only just missed out on a play off spot last season,Bates might be tight with the pennies but he came in and saved us from going under without him there would be no leeds,Bates is right to not be held to ransome over wagers we dont want to end up back where we was 8 year ago and i think where only 3 or 4 signings away from going up,In my eyes where a keeper 2 defenders and a centre mid short,But if worst come to worst and we signed no one am still confident we would push for a play off spot,So let not be so negative and get behind are team this time next year we could be back where we belong in the premiership. number1inyorkshire krusty you are a clown have come on here just to wind us all up is it April fools day again . as MR T would say “shut up fool “ Barry I can’t understand the moaning on the site, It is in the hands of the supporters, when the club tried it on in my youth re John Charles with the price of tickets, people stopped coming to E.R. till the price went down. If you stop supporting the team in numbers, Mr Bates will have to do some thing. drop the price of tickets, spend some money or Go. It is all in your hands Stop moaning and take some action. Barry sorry about the spelling krustytheclown number1inyorkshire you sound like 1 of those who just agrees with people all the time i know for a fact you would of been singing grayson and bates prises if we had gone up Dje That is a monumental ‘if’. You might as well have added ‘and won the FA Cup’ whilst you were at it, it has about as much resonance as we didn’t. I’d like to know on what you build your ‘confidence’ of us making the playoffs this season, even if we didn’t bring anyone new in. Only I’ve been following the betting odds for the Championship and we are currently placed at 10-11th place, although slipping out slightly. I noticed another featured review today for how teams are regarding their squad and finances and fans expectations, and then outlined and justified how they saw the league panning out. West Ham were down as winning it with Leicester coming second – the same places favoured by the bookies. Leeds were placed 15th, a few places below Doncaster I might add.15th was a bit harsh to be honest, and off the mark for the bookies preferred 10th place. So I’d really like to know what you know that so few else do? ‘Cos I’d like to think that things always got bigger and brighter too and we all go marching forward, chim-chim-iny, and improve on 7th place from last season. Only that nagging doubt that having a small, weaker squad, and tougher competitors this season than last, you know, sort of makes me think that by and large we might drop back a few places after all and end up … well … about 10th really. I look forward to the illumination, because I don’t see a lot coming from the positives amongst us, just a lot of talking the talk and trying to rally morale that we can do it if we just believe hard enough regardless of squad talent and numbers. If only life was like the X-Factor. number1inyorkshire there was never any danger of us going up and there will be less off that even more so this time . grayson is a yes man to bates ,he is living his dream so booing to the goose that is bates is out of the question . bates far from saving our club as you suggest has done nothing for the the club to benefit it ,he is milking us dry and you if you do go to games that includes you ,there were several others who would have bought the club and many more besides so we would have still been here ,history tells us that . he put us into admin etc etc , and there is absolutely no ,zero ,zilch investment in the playing side and there has not been since he took over unless i missed it . then there is off shore ,tax exiles .court cases and a forth coming investigation by hmrc and the parliamentary football group over ownership and possibly if he is shown to of lied a court case ,points deductions i will end now because i could go on and on . just from my point of view i have had many a heated discussion with people on here so no i don’t agree with lots but when people get on the back of bates and grayson ,particularly bates i will sing from the same song sheet like a choir boy all day long bates out ,bates out grayson will be gone by chrimbo krustytheclown The odds the bookies give means nothing just look at last season we was tipped to go down,And you might hate bates but did anyone else put a bid in for us in are time of need? no they didnt he came in with the cash and saved us from going out of business, and as for grayson give him this season his record reads promotion in his first full season and 7th the season after. Dje ‘The odds the bookies give means nothing just look at last season’ ~ did you look? Cos we weren’t ever ‘tipped to go down’. Paddy Power’s Odds from Start of June 2010: Cardiff 9/1 QPR 10/1 Reading 10/1 Nottm Forest 10/1 Burnley 10/1 Middlesbrough 10/1 Leicester 11/1 Hull 14/1 Ipswich 14/1 Portsmouth 14/1 Norwich 16/1 Leeds 16/1 Sheff Utd 16/1 Swansea 18/1 Bristol City 20/1 Millwall 25/1 Derby 30/1 Coventry 33/1 Preston 40/1 Barnsley 50/1 Doncaster 50/1 Crystal Palace 50/1 Watford 80/1 Scunthorpe 100/1 I’d say, one or two exceptions aside, they called it about right, no? I don’t understand fans who use Bates’ PR teams press releases as facts regarding our exceptionally murky financial past. Considering until two months ago the man lied – in court, on oath – about having any form of ownership of the club, and then finally came clean. Equally, whenever anyone has probed into the offshore registration of the club, it miraculously hops boat and jumps to another offshore tax haven. Why do fans passively accept smokescreens as vistas from our owners who run a mile when ever you want to ask them a technical issue about … you know, who owns the club, or Elland Road, or our training ground. But to be honest, as I never lost my livelihood when he rigged us coming out of administration at the expense of predominately small local lifelong Leeds supporting firms and individuals – so why should I really be bothered about what a cunt he is. But then why should I be expected to doff my cap to him for fiddling our survival three odd seasons ago. That’s history in football terms, and quite frankly we are too big and our expectations are so hight to be so servile. The same goes for Grayson, who has until Christmas, but with our fixture list and the irritation of fans so early in the pre-season campaign I’d suggest nearer October if results aren’t peppering along. He has had two seasons in the Championship before you know? He had a good-ish season when he took Blackpool up to the Championship but then had a very average form in the second season [LDLWWLWDDDDWDLWLLLLWWLDD [29pts in 24 games] and he was looking over his shoulder when we came in out of the blue for him as a replacement for MacAllister. Coincidently, Holloway came in for them and showed what a class manager can do with limited resources and inheriting a distinctly average squad. But sure, Grayson repeated the trick with us – promotion from League One to the Championship and then a better than expected first season in it. He’ll be hoping then that history doesn’t repeat itself this time. borderswhites It used to be the case that if I wanted any news at that time of the year I would go,first thing, to the official site.Its now third choice after TSS and Sky Football News,such is the lack of meaningful info coming out of ER. However,a look at the current official squad reveals some stark viewing. 1 Goalkeeper 9 Defenders (some of dubious quality) 6 Midfielders (2 0f who are totally unproved Lees and Hatfield) 5 Forwards Reserves. Only Payne and McCann listed along with Hatfield. I think that sums it up nicely,a bit thin on the ground.Not even enough to have an 11 a side game between em. Dje I noticed in the Sunday Times that it says that we are agreeing terms with Michael Brown – former Spurs, Blades. It wa sin their ‘done deals’ section in the part where it said we have agreed a two year deal with Kisnorbo – ie. a few hours before the club site confirmed this. The Sunday Times is pretty cagey in its football transfer declarations so I’m taking this as 99% completed. Bit worried about his age – 34 – but he’s bags of experience as a defensive midfielder and did OK for a misfiring Portsmouth last season if I remember correctly.