Even promoted it's all doom and gloom! TSS June 7, 2010 Leeds United 81 Comments Returning to work last month, still on a bit of a high from the promotion party (which I was still suffering from), the tireless Scum fans still managed to poke fun at Leeds United. To them, a pitch invasion for escaping the third tier was a bit ridiculous, and in truth, maybe it was? But after nearly a decade of demise, the pitch invasion and parties that followed around Leeds were inevitable. After years of frustration, heartbreak and failure, we finally had something to celebrate. And yes – we probably did go a little over the top. But the fact of the matter is, that promotion was long overdue, and we all needed something to lift our endlessly tormented souls. However ridiculous celebrating promotion to the second tier may be for a club of Leeds United’s size, I’d do it all again tomorrow. The Scum fans are welcome to laugh. After all, Leeds United are finally moving forwards again. Scum meanwhile are being knocked out of the FA Cup in the third round by third-tier teams and crippling under the weight of the Glazer inherited debts. It helps you sleep much easier at night, doesn’t it? The Scum fans are welcome to their five minutes of laughter. They know that deep down, their days of Premier League dominance are over. They know the debt which Glazer has burdened them with will eventually be too big to cope with and that multi-million pound transfers will quickly become a thing of the past. And as they slowly slip down the pecking order, Leeds United will quietly rise again. You see, the Scum fans are easy enough to torment. They have enough worries of their own and are simply trying to deflect attention by focusing on us. It’s the same “light-hearted” banter that these two teams have communicated in for years, and it isn’t going to stop simply because there’s a division or two between us. The hatred is far too strong for that! However, more and more over the last few years I’ve noticed that the Scum fans are wasting their breath. No matter how critical of Leeds United’s team, management or fans they may be, they simply can’t compete with the attitudes coming from within. We’ve developed such a defeated, cynical and pessimistic attitude, that escaping this rut is a hell of a lot harder than it should be. I say ‘developed’, but it’s hardly something that’s happened over night. No other team on earth is as critical of their players as Leeds United’s fans are. Jermaine Beckford was a prime example, but even going back to our more successful time at the top, Mark Viduka endured the same kind of nonsense. Then there’s the management. Simon Grayson moves from hero to mug at such a rapid pace, I can’t update TSS quick enough sometimes. He’s not been the only one either, David O’Leary, George Graham and even Howard Wilkinson often fell foul of the fans negativity. I’m digressing a little here, but there’s an often cited tribe in Africa called the Ashanti’s that Psychologists have used to explain what can happen when an entire community expects something of you. Basically, the Ashanti’s believe that your personality is dictated by what day of the week you are born. For example, a boy born on Monday is said to be ‘mild-mannered and peace loving’ whilst one born on Wednesday is said to be ‘violent and aggressive’. Of course, in a more developed society such as our own, we know the day of the week on which you’re born holds absolutely no relevance to your personality. However, the Ashanti’s that were born on a Wednesday did turn out to be ‘violent and aggressive’, whilst those born on a Monday were ‘mild-mannered and peace loving’. What the Ashanti’s and Psychology teaches us, is that when something is when everyone around us expects something of someone, that person will generally act accordingly. So how does this relate to Leeds United? Maybe it doesn’t, but I can’t help thinking that the negativity amongst our fans sometimes fuels failure. In the play-off final against Donny for example, there were as many fans expecting us to ‘bottle it’ as there were fans who thought we would win. When a group of players pull on that famous white shirt that holds all the memories of finals where we ‘bottled it’ and they hear the pessimistic expectations of fans, maybe they start to conform to what is “expected” of them? Maybe failure was inevitable? Conversely, you only need to look at the defiant arrogance of the Manchester United fans who believe they have a god-given right to win anything, or the kind of ‘we can beat anyone‘ spirit Jose Mourinho instils wherever he goes. You never get that kind of belief at Elland Road. There’s always an element of expected doom. We enjoy the highs, but seldom get too carried away. In truth, we always hold back a little, just in case there’s an epic fall awaiting us around the next corner. Even now, after promotion the negativity remains. The possibility that Simon Grayson has nothing to spend makes us question our chances next term. We compare ourselves to other teams, not by looking at the strength and depth of our own squad, but by suggesting how easily the oppositions star player will tear through our fragile defence. Maybe pessimism is an inherent trait of all Leeds United fans? All those failures are hard to forget, but are we partly to blame for those failures? Is our own negativity dragging the team down and stopping Leeds United’s success, or is the Gypsy curse/Ken Bates/deal Ridsdale made with the Devil to blame for it all? Pingback: Tweets that mention Even promoted it’s all doom and gloom! -- Topsy.com() Tim Campbell You’re rite about the scumsters TSS, if tonights panorama is anything to go by the debt we incurred through the ridsdale years pales in comparison to theirs. If they were honest enough to admit it they would agree they are teetering on the brink of financial implusion. Thats the good stuff out of the way; as regards our own club I may be wrong but I feel strangely confident about the months ahead. I am of the opinion now that we will see money spent and I think we will see a few surprises as regards future signings Ilkleywhite The glazers have debts of over 1 BILLION POUNDS. And something somewhere will have to give, once Fergie goes, expect the trickle of players leaving Old Trafford to become an avalanche, can’t see the Glazers getting anything near the money they paid/owe for Man U, when they eventually sell it (they will have to) it only takes one investor to become twitchy and demand their money back and the whole pack of cards, will come down, their debts make ours look insignificant by comparison Tim Campbell Agreed pal and I don’t think its only the mancs that are facing this potential problem of financial ruin TheReaper08 I don’t really want to talk about that lot, they get enough airtime in the known universe without turning one of my favourite fan sites over to them for any type of discussion. What I will say is that constructive comments about our club (and I know this isn’t where your pitching TSS) should be welcome at all times. TheReaper08 By that I mean constructive criticisms. Dje “What the Ashanti’s and Psychology teaches us, is that when something is expected of someone within a given community, that person is likely to turn out that way.” With the exception of Newcastle United I can’t think of another club higher-most than Leeds than is built upon lofty (and sometimes unrealistic) expectations of its fans. Since relegation from the Premiership we’ve been continually taunted with ‘you’re not a big club anymore’. On the Ashanti logic we would have become a ‘small club’, as that was what was expected of us. Instead the defense against these patronising instructions has been our fans to use more and more intricate reasoning to justify that yes we are still a ‘big club’ afterall – high attendance figures and the undivided pulling power of the city of Leeds for support are the most common – despite our lowly league status. Gallows humour defeatism of losing in finals and playoffs is only half the story if you are to read it as pessimism. Traditionally it is a defense mechanism that asserts we shout loudly about gypsy curses and ‘bottling it’ to undermine any loss of face in the case of eventual defeat. But we still hope and support the team to win, even if we don’t acknowledge (to others) that we actually expect to. If we were genuinely pessimistic about playoffs and finals – and away cup games at Old Trafford and White Hart Lane – then we wouldn’t turn up in such numbers or sell-out our quota of tickets within hours (and could do so many times over if the stadiums were larger). Unfortunately this defense mechanism of voicing off as a doom-and-gloom merchant probably tells more about our last eight years or so of getting and giving ourselves as a club a right good public kicking. On the other hand, a lesser club with lesser support would possibly have gone under what we’ve been through. I’ve no idea where the stereotype of the bullish ‘tell it as it’, ‘no-nonsense’ Yorkshire terrier comes into all of it with what is essentially such capricious bitchiness towards Beckford and as you rightly acknowledge, Viduka too. Who knows, perhaps it is all just for show: a Balinese cockfight for when the psychologists show up to study us and our footballing temperament. Mr Flinn You forgot to mention Scum fan have no souls. Henry V I live in Man U territory! Their fans are just as ‘cautious’ as we are. It does not matter what league you are in there are plenty of things to complain about, real or imagined. We have had a lot of disappointments so it is natural that we cushion ourselves. It is all based on our experience at the hands of the many and varied ‘owners’ we have had in recent times. If you keep getting slapped you flinch when a hand is raised, to protect yourself. We are doing OK!!! Henry. Mikelufc Quite right Henry We are indeed doing ok ken is keeping us stable whilst allowing us to dream and we know we are definitely going forward. Craig Happy Birthday Mike. Michael Lord Interesting article. I’m an old guy that saw Leeds through the 70’s and even back then we had the same mentality on the terraces of being or at least perceiving that we are perennial losers. Being Leeds United has always been a struggle even when we are winning. Things just seem to conspire against us at each major hurdle whether it be the Munich, Sunderland, those League and Cup double chances that we didn’t take as well as the all the promotion play off finals. He’ll we nearly screwed the job last season and only got promoted by a whisker when we should have streaked away with the title. But hey, that’s Leeds United for you. Ed Leeds fans suffer from Ashanti-ism too. Any day of the week, anybody in a Manc shirt is scum and it generally turns out to be true. Think your ‘light hearted’ banter comment was a bit wide of the mark. The manc supporters I’ve crossed paths with hate Leeds. There’s nothing light hearted about it. iBuckets Ashanti-ism = Self-fulfilling prophecy. Tell your young kid he’s crap at football often enough, he loses confidence and his game deteriorates. Tell him he’s no good at maths and after a while he gets a job advising The Scum on an interesting investment proposal from over the pond. Michael Kraczkowski The thing is with scumchester fans, they are outrageously arrogant, they will slag leeds off all day long to me. they ignore their own problems and apparently getting beat by a league 1 team meant nothing to them, then they have no pride! they are very, very arrogant supporters who think that they are the best team in the world, they’re not, and as soon as Madrid stump up enough money to buy Rooney they’ll be a middle-league level team…and i’m gonna love it cossie(LUFC) I am also an old bugger that can remember all our failures during the ‘glory years’ but this is something that makes us what we are I think. Some of the heartaches we have suffered have been our fault (play off V Watford, poor tactics, League Cup V Villa awful performance), others have been snatched from us by outside factors (ECWC V Inter, EC V B Munich) and others have just been freak one off results (1973 Sunderland). Through it all we have remained and always will remain Leeds United and although the lows massively outweight the highs I for one wouldn’t want to be anything other that a Leeds fan, a rare breed MOT Matt bb As with all lther posts i agree, most other fans slate their club, i’ll never forget coming out of anfield after our 2nd season in the top flight, we got thrashed 3-0, and i was gobsmacked at the scousers, they slated dalglish.. Morons, anyway its normal behaviour, but the power of positive thought is key, the mkre we all do it the better. Craig As a well-travelled southerner who has supported Leeds United since 1970 – well before I knew where Leeds was – it has always seemed significant to me that most of our rivalries have the Pennines as the dividing line. I have always put the factors you describe down to straightforward Yorkshire belligerence – that strange mix between total arrogance and acting put-upon by anyone and everyone. I don’t get to many home games since I live a long way from Leeds and work on Saturdays but I well remember the last home game I attended. All the home crowd around me were bating the opposition so incessantly that I swear they missed both the home goals. To my mind this was the reason we were so quick in overturning the 15-point deduction – because the world was against us. As soon as we were in positive territory and climbing the league the old doubts settled back in and we begun to wonder whether we were the pauper at the banquet once more. Finally, before I get lynched either for not being native or for comments that may be read as critical, visits to areas of the country such as Yorkshire have always left me wishing I was born in a place that had a strong sense of local pride. It may take strange forms at times but it least it inspires a degree of loyalty and feels like home. TSS Excellent post Craig and I totally agree. When our backs are to the wall, we always come out on top. But you only have to look at the FA Cup final against Sunderland or the play-off final v Donny to see what happens when we’re favourites. This pretty much sums up my theory though. Whenever we’re expected to do something, we over-think it and draw on past failures. This creates negativity, which is undoubtedly passed onto the players. Colin of Yorkshire We must be one of only a handful of clubs who owe nobody nowt Long may it continue even if we stay in the Ccc a while TSS Erm… you mean aside from the money we owe (and pay every year) to the people who bought the club? Colin Kandol has been linked with a move to Ipswich haha, they can have him. Mikelufc Thanks Craig No doom and gloom here, I feel very positive about the coming season despite scraping promotionby the thinnest margins possible. I hope Larry has learned much from his mistakes. Matt bb Graysons a young manager, i believe at one point he possibly did lose the dressing room, but to his credit he got it back. I think we’ll all continue to whinge about our manager, team, and the insensitive way they screw up our weekends but we’re finally moving up. I take no joy in man u suffering, they are one of the worlds top football teams and like us their fans have to endure their clubs mismanagement by a board who doesnt care. Positively we may get to play them in the championship if glazer builds the debt any more! Dje I’d like to think that we’d pass them on the staircase, unlucky or not as it may be. Mike Am I looking forward to watching Panarama tonight – its not something I generally watch -but tonight I think it will give me more laughs than Peter Kaye Mike I know an eye for an eye is not the way – but I cast my mind back to when we fell apart financially. There was plenty of smirking and ridicule then. I think clubs that fall apart now really do deserve it, if they cannotlearn from the effect it had on Leeds then they deserve to suffer. Natuarally I would not want to see any club go under (apart from salford city)and the best thing about the last few days is Crystal Palance being saved. Amazingly though you here of the supposed sixe of some clubs debt, it makes Leeds’s £100 million or so look fairly tame by comparison. Timothy Wilson I’d love to see the scum go under. Matt bb Dear oh dear, didnt old trafford in january teach anyone anything? We need our rivals, and they need us, man united fans have to watch burnley, sunderland, bolton and blackpool visit, they missed us. I’d miss them if they went under, i hope they stay in business, they will get relegated one day everyone does but its bad news wishing for them to go bust. Imagine all those people losing their jobs? All those people left without a team, we nearly had that, it wasnt our fault as supporters and it’s not manchester united fans fault. I think theyre arrogant pr@ts and i love beating them but we love to hate them. timm Im just sitting here doing as you asked Matt, im imagining all those people without a job & all those people left without a team, & i must say, it feels bloody fantastic! Think how good it would be for the environment? All those cars not travelling from London up to Manchester & back every 2 weeks! Like both myself & Reaper have said numerous times, people should be careful what they wish for, knowing the names of those that own your club means nothing! I bet those scum fans would give anything to be owned by wealthy anonymous investors (ie, the Red Knights)& to have a no nonsense figurehead chairman at the helm (Keith Harris). It’s there for everyone to see, they want what we’ve already got! They may want it on a bigger scale than we have it, but in principle it’s the same. Matt bb People losing their jobs, fantastic? I really hope thats a joke? Isnt it? My point is simply that we share some common ground with man united, we love our clubs, and mismanagement from above has hurt us, and now hurting them. As said i take no joy in man united or any football fan losing their club. timm No Matt, not a joke. I hate them, pure & simple! Hate, Hate, Hate. Serves them right for going to work for the scummers. The trouble with their ‘supporters’ is that because they’re club have a team that’s better than most other teams, they seem to think that they’re better than most other supporters. I hope they go through everything we went through,but ten times worse! I can’t be objective when it comes to our enemy, i hate them with a passion. Matt BB you lose all credibility when you make comments like that. I’ve had to make people redundant, their homes, livelihoods and families are all at risk. Football is important to us but not more than our families, get a reality check. Fine some of their more insensitive and jingoistic supporters – and youre falling into that category – made fun of our problems, but i’d like to think we’re better than that. You cant make fun of people losing their livelihoods. Remember the man united fans who came to elland road when Loftus and speight were murdered to pay respects, they showed that we’re all part of the same group. timm Jingoistic! Great word! bring it on Matt. I have passion, & passion is a good thing, unlike your wishy washy let’s all feel sorry for scum comments.I’ll stay with my passionate points of view Matt, & you stick with yours. You’ll be suggesting we have a kick about with their fans in the car park next! You talk about needing our bitter rivals, but the problem is that if it’s left to supporters like you, it won’t be a rivalry! I have no sympathy for anyone connected with that club, & your talk of people losing their jobs & homes etc is just hyperthetical speculative nonsense. Somebody on this site was bellyaching recently about Ken Bates not giving the Inland Revenue a few million quid because we went into administration,whoever it was implied that this was depriving our armed forces & hospitals etc..Well how about that lot dodging £80 million in corporation tax then? If i was David Cameron i’d tell them that as long as they can pay the likes of Rooney over £100k a week, then they must be making a profit. You like coming down hard on Bates on here Matt but you seem to have nothing but sympathy for Man Utds ‘plight’. Steve L I believe a certain Leeds Blog started the negative stuff two days after we’d been promoted. The word ‘Bates’ is never far away from internet chatterers’ tongues, and yet I can’t help feeling that, not withstanding the myriad of valid concerns about his tenure and where he’s taking us, some people simply latch on to it like a lightning rod. You could never describe Leeds fans as joyous. Even though so many of our supporters are long distance fans (though their origins may be in the fair county of West Yorkshire) there is always an air of entitlement, impatience and intolerance. The lightest moments and comments usually occur at the darkest times, perversely. When we achieve then the negativity, a sort of self protection system, clicks in. I don’t know about you lot but I have no idea to expect next season. I hope it’s not a relegation struglle but equally I hope that we’ll be knocking on the door of the play offs. I’m not setting myself up to be disappointed. Some people, I think, are almost willing it. Good things don’t happen to Leeds very often. And when they do, beware waht follows – it’s usually far lower than the high was. Mike Based on the inital signings we are building a team to hold its own in the championship and potentially a flutter at the playoffs. Being realistic if we acheive that combined with stuffing salford city again I will very happy. As much as you want to see a double promotion – I would fear disaster, we have waited 8 years for some good news so whats another 2-3 if you can see the team growing in strength. Leeds have to go into the Premier League and stay there.I also feel that if Leeds can show they are knocking on the door of the Prem by finishing in the top 6 for a couple of years that we will finally get out leeds loving billionaire. The reality is that the odds of building a team the way Revie did (plank by plank)is not going to happen ever again. To be a top 6 Prem team you need financial clout. Hence Mr Bates working over time on ER generating cash 24/7. Putting aside my fanatical support for Leeds, it does really surprise me that no one has come in for Leeds. Considering the fan base and potential (we all know we could fill a 60,000 stadium if we hit the higher end of the Prem). Evan just the legacy Revie left means we are known worlwide and from a marketing perspective thats a big thing. I would love nothing more than to see a team built from the kids in the Leeds area but its just a pipe dream. If a team buys the best players from around the world the only way you can match them in the long term is by following suit. As we hit number 10 in the charts the other week you never know anything can happen – its Leeds United after all Fish Optimism! I’ve got it in spades – we struggled to get out of the third division because we got caught up in two many battles which a number of our players didn’t know how to cope with – our best performances came against much better sides – Liverpool, Man U, Spurs, Watford(!) – granted we didn’t perform often enough against our nearest rivals, but many of those games came one after the other during our worst part of the season. Next season, with the addition of a few players and more opportunities to play some football, instead of scrapping for the ball, we will do well – I predict a top ten finish and, as Leicester and Swansea have proved, we could reach even higher. Okay, so a top ten finish in division 2 isn’t perhaps the heights that some fans think we should be at, but small steps will take us back where we want to be. I for one can’t wait for next season, and even now, over a month later, me and the kids can’t stop singing, “Going Up, going up, Leeds are going up…” MOT West stand rebel The financial implications at ER are far from over and we are certainly not out of debt. The club as we know is up for sale or shall we say the brand is up for sale at £50m. The ground is for sale at £20m and Thorp Arch for £5m. Then there is the £5m we still owe should we return to the premiership. So that’s £80m before a ball has been kicked or a player signed. We still have know idea of other debts such as legal bills for court cases fought and lost.The Yorkshie Radio adventure may also be another millstone for a future owner. Still we at least did get promoted and being at Old Trafford in January was just awsome. les i only skirted round the article above by tss but here is my take on the same my opinion only a promotion is a promotion and for my 14 year old it was his first site of anything that resembles leeds united happiness ,and for those kids it was right to run on the field at the end and as we used to sit in the east upper in the heady days of prem league we like to swap seats and sit there when given the chance so we did last game so my kids didnt run on, there are 3 of them for the record . anyone upto the age of 16/17 is more than allowed to run on the pitch the problem is that its the forty odds that do it and this is where our fans who are the best anywhere in the world in football at times and indeed most of the time show the side that is all bad about leeds football fans .they do pick on players ,i remember denis irwin ,scott sellars all been picked on its happened in every team since culminating with beckford this season ,who will be next , lets be right about it when we mention donny playoff the people who said we would bottle it were right and we all remember the revie side that won loads but came second many other times lately the villa final .the watford final .the donny final last years play offs .now is that down to the fans expectation that puts the team under pressure as we all turn up in our thousands now the only thing that bucked that trend was chams league when to be fair noone expected us to win no pressure we did ok its been the same when we have had some big attendences at league matches the bigger games we have not done that well some players aheve come from 5/6 000 per week to 28/30000 its a massive step up ,manu,s debts are massive but it will not be that ,that does for em it will be fergie or lack of him ,who wants to follow him you would be barkin ,his team are ageing ,theres not much money in real terms for him to spend the glazers are a billion over drawn .liverpool ,chelsea and 1 or 2 others are the same for them scummers who maybe are reading this its now the time to stop laughing WE HAVE NO DEBT LOL OH ITS US LAUGHING AT YOU NOW CHUCKLE , CHUCKLE ,CHUCKLE . we are a nation who thrive on negativity lets be right to finish 4th in the olympics get you a knighthood ,which there are plenty of people waiting for that to fall on its arse i had that exact conversation today .then there is england in the world cup .for all the new found george flag waving from cars and houses there are for eveyone of those 2 others waiting to welcome england home in mid june instead of july , i have mentioned before ansd some one has mentioned today big crowds do not mean anything ask newcastle so we do expect to much ,now last season the pressure was on me from all the other teams supporters round me cos i expected us to get prom from league 1 , i do not expect owt next season so i can enjoy footy for the first time in 7 seasons i cant coment on african phylosophy Chareose as much as it would amuse me to see Man U implode financially im not sure its good for football or entertainment. After all the Prem isnt the prem without Leeds United. Enough fans have grudgingly admitted as much. The same can be said about Man U. You need all the big clubs :o) Craig If I was a Man U fan watching last night’s Panorama I’d be feeling very uneasy this morning. My feeling is that, with the tendency of emotion to rule the head in the football world, it may need some big clubs to suffer big shocks before the footballing world recovers a much needed sense of perspective. les the nail has been firmly hit on the head by you craig it will take a decent size club to go before the football world sits up .if that was you or i trading as football clubs are ,insolvent ???? the powers that be would be closing us down it is in real terms illegal . it seems to me that the premier league sit back and encourage it too all they say is clubs are 3 billion in debt (collectively) but we have 4 billion going in if that was the case why didnt they bail out pompey it looks like hull could go too . its also the fact that the prem is not as savvi as it thinks the bundesliga .have bigger gates ,bigger grounds to accomadate them and make almost twice as much per team by selling cheaper tickets how can that be ,well its because they average 51% on wages as apposed to nearly 70% in uk i for one wouldnt mind a club going forever especially a prem club or top league club in europe as we found out to our cost though its the fans that take the hit .football is a business we all know that now so why is it the only business thats run like it is . was there any news yesterday on leeds having to post the owners in public now i thought that was yesterdays meeting too Craig I guess I should add that this doesn’t put me in the camp of those who’d actually like to see Man U put out of business – cut down to size maybe, but nothing worse. Henry V Well said Matt BB. I have a couple of friends who are man U season ticket holders (for a long time) and they want Leeds back in the Premiership. They admitted, after the cup game against us, that they had lost their joy in recent years. Hearing our 9,000 fans out-singing their 60,000+ was a reminder of the ‘old days’. We still have that excitement, in spite of everything we have been through. We still appreciate what we have, and how close we came to losing everything. They have outgrown themselves, and have a different type of corporate fan now. They are still the richest club in the world, so I do not think they will have any problems. It is the clubs lower down the Prem’ who need to watch out. They would love the Man U v Leeds games to return. They might just wake them from their lethargy!! I would not swop places with them!!! Henry. les manu are the richest club in the world but i think now though if the glazers go into the american equivalent of admin it would affect manu and they would be deducted points .like southampton were when there owners went into admin and the club didnt they lost points .. and of course they would be sold to pay off glazers debt as would the players , the knock on affect could be endless .relegation etc etc etc .i dont care about manu for what its worth i only hate them when we are playing them ,but for sporting clubs as a whole that the glazers own to be a BILLION POUNDS IN DEBT IS OBSCENE and to be fair if the red knights took over it would be as bad asthey would have to borrow .so for that reason only i hope they go it makes our 100 mill look like a change bottle raid .i know abramovich pays the bill but in theory they have lost a billion in the last 4/5 years JUST TO FINISH IS THERE ANY TRUTH IN RUMOUR ABOUT JOE COLE COMING TO US Craig Not at 100k a week he isn’t! TheReaper08 I wouldn’t swap places with them either Henry, equally though I wouldn’t want to see them disappear. Football desperately needs it’s rivalries and the more local the better. If we have a campaign of witnessing the systematic removal of our old enemies it won’t be long before we talk about Plymouth or Exeter as being a hated rival. Craig I’m having fun imagining the lock-stock-and-barrel removal of a major northern city to the Southwest! Would you plonk it straight on top of Bristol?… or maybe you are simply being selfish and thinking of making it easier for you to get to home games! TheReaper08 Well it work for me Craig as you well know, Leeds relocated to Witshire, perfect. Matt BB Well at the end of the day we’re all football fans, and despite Timm’s comments about revelling in the unemployment of Man U employees(because thats what happens when businesses go into administration) and the despondency of their supporters I’d never stoop that low. I think first and foremost we miss the rivalry of playing against big clubs like them, and they miss us, and I know thats hard for people on both sides to admit, I think that both our board and the Man U owners have a lot to answer for, and ultimately its fans that suffer, we dodged the £5M bullet of HMRC winding up order (preston currently have one pointing at them) and Man U dosged paying elements of their corporation tax, did tha go into the respective teams investment? who knows? I’ll always love to hate man united, but we need them and they need us, perhaps we’ll meet in the champouonship the way things are going. I’m reasonably optimistic about this season, despite being initially a little concerned about signing paynter showing lack of real ambition, theres a lot more left of the summer to go and we should see some real activity after the world cup. West Stand Rebel Before we let truth disappear for the sake of a good story let’s look again at those figures. Man U have a turnover of approx £300m per annum whilst Leeds turnover is under £30m ie one tenth of the size of theirs. They own there ground and training facilities and have world class players in their squad. We neither own our ground or training pitch and you could buy our whole squad for the price of Rooney’s left leg, i.e £10m. We are still massively in debt in terms of what we used to own on and off the field. We would need an investment of at least £150m to get back to where we were before Ridsdale and his successors bankrupted our club. Even then we couldn’t afford the massive premiership wage bill. Whilst promotion was great and the future looks a little rosier our grat rivals across the hill I’m afraid are out of sight. Matt BB but when a bank like lehmann brothers can go under, and they were worth more than man united, and had been round a lot longer, why couldnt man united? If you wanted to buy man united would you pay full price or wait for them to be vulnerable? I think there is more in this story. I really hope they dont go bump because it would be bad for tue UK economy as well as football generally but look at two examplars from the continent, Fiorentina and Marseilles, theyre both back now but they went from top flight to 4th and 2nd division respectively due to financial issues. timm You seem to be worried sick about poor old Man Utd Matt! Worried sick for the club, worried sick for the staff. Why don’t you let these concerns be known on some of their sites instead of going on & on about them on a Leeds Utd site all the time? Im far more interested in clubs like Plymouth & Cheltenham & Mansfield than i am in a club who rake in hundreds of millions of pounds a year & still manage to get themselves in the shit.So less of your sensasionalist comments about me ‘revelling in the unemployment of Man Utd employees’ Matt, because like i said, your just writing a load of speculative & hyperthetical bollocks. & if you insist on slagging Bates off all the time & then worrying yourself sick about the future of that lot,then maybe it’s time you bought yourself a green & gold scarf? Or would you ‘never stoop so low’? Im tired of reading your endless comments about them all the time! Go & write your sympathetic notes on their sites instead. KN me mates sisters best friend who works in the Elland Road shop says she saw Joe Cole buying a Leeds shirt just before he set off for SA…not sure if he’d fit into the squad to be honest Craig And I expect your mate’s sister’s best friend is busily scouring all the LUFC blogs to find out who believed the cock-and-bull story they invented! Pete Is that like BBC’s transfer deadline day live updates? ‘My brother is a taxi driver who just picked up Klass-Jan Huntelaar and is taking him to the KC stadium’ type things? In that case, my Uncle’s Brother’s Son reckons he saw Kaka in a chippy in Grimsby asking for directions to Elland Road… Craig How lost can you get??? Pete Very, since first he asked if he was anywhere near Blundell Park…I think Grimsby had first option on him… timm Are you sure he didn’t say that he trod in a kaka in a chippy in Grimsby? yorkieboy i know on here the joe cole is a laugh but i bet if he did come we would all stop moaning about free transfers . just goes to show there is some good frees about Craig Sure, if interested clubs can afford to pay the wages! TheReaper08 Exactly, I don’t think anyone ever said there was decent freebies around. I always use Paddy K as a prime example of a very very good free acquisition. Mike I dont see the issue with free transfers at the end of the day it allows more room for wage negotiation (just ask Everton) I have not got a clue who is availble on the free market but you can bet Leeds do. Leeds must look a whole lot more tempting to a top championship or bottom end prem player who’s currently spending time on the bench. Why spend £2 million on a transfer fee when you can fund £10k a week for two decent players for a couple of years. Michael Lord ^^^^^ 100% correct. However the only problem with that strategy is there is only a limited number of players available on free transfers. Craig That would normally be the case but the article below indicates that there are 500 players currently available on a ‘free’ including Benjani, Michael Ballack, Martin Petrov and Sylvinho. http://www.football.co.uk/liverpool/joe_cole_released_by_chelsea_as_500_players_go_looking_forfree_love_rss838793.shtml Pete Hmm…Fabio Aurelio anybody? Dje With the dirge of transfer activity this week, speculation wise, is £1m paying too much for Andy O’Brien? Personally I can’t remember ever noticing him playing for Bolton or Ireland – but I’m happy to abide with those who have voiced that he is a seasoned pro and could do a worthy stance at the back, where new faces are desperately needed. But consider: 1.] Bolton and Coyle want rid of him – presumably to save on the wage bill, as opposed to cash-in on his transfer price. 2.] He only played six times for them last season, so he isn’t in any known form. 3.] He’s 31 years old by the end of June – so his legs could do a Naylor and go at any time, and we won’t be able to cash-in on any future transfer. So isn’t there room for us to cut a better deal with Bolton well below the million mark? £1m that we could otherwise spend on McArthur, or down-payment on Hooper. Dje Oh well, I guess we saved some transfer pennies with Connolly! Pete Let’s hope we’re saving those pennies for McArthur, Sharp and Hooper… Craig Was Connolly released by Derby? Craig Der… I should have read wikipedia before asking such a dumb question! Dje A good bit of business I reckon. Sure, Derby fans might say he is the worst player ever to play for them, but he was there a couple of seasons so he can’t be too bad. Besides, they’re Derby fans so their reasoning is upside down to start with. A good and solid right back who doesn’t spend three quarters of the season injured is about right in my eyes, and – considering the other positions that need filling – on a free transfer is fine by me. A central defender or two, a solid midfielder and something a little special upfront is where transfer funds should be spent – if we have any funds. And any left over can go on a speedy loanee or two down each wings. TheReaper08 Really Dje ? Is that what you really think ? I pride myself on a fair degree of football knowledge and I have to admit I know next to nowt about this lad. That doesn’t make him a bad signing but in reverse it doesn’t make him a great signing either. Dje The sealing deal for me regarding Connolly, Reaper [and I didn’t mention it above as the season of questioning Grayson’s eye for a player is apparently on Summer holiday], is that if Grayson, a right back in his time, can’t spot a reasonable right back then we really are scuppered on our Summer recruitment drive. At 26, Connolly shouldn’t be coming in as one for the future, he should be there to do a good, solid job. TheReaper08 I don’t judge Grayson and he has my unconditional support but he couldn’t spot a left back (Capaldi) and is there really much difference ? Dje I think Capaldi was offered to/forced on us as a free “what-yer-got-to-lose”. Coming from Cardiff City, a fair-to-good-going Championship side at the time, I think anyone utterly unknowing of Capaldi’s skills and attributes would have presumed that he would have been able to hold his own against Kettering Town. Sadly not, and to be fair to Grayson, he dropped him after two more try-outs and waved away any prospect of him signing on a permanent contract. TSS @Reaper08 “he couldn’t spot a left back (Capaldi) and is there really much difference ?” You mean aside from the fundamental difference that one should be left-footed and the other… erm… right? TheReaper08 Nice come back TSS, a bit silly but I am guessing you were trying to be funny. If I need to explain about playing positions and how they are exactly the same but on different sides of the pitch I might just pack it in now. TSS Haha, well, whatever Capaldi was playing looked nothing like what our right-back was doing! TSS PS. My point was also a little swipe at Larry’s insistence on playing Hughes on the left-side, where he is obviously struggling! TheReaper08 Would this be the right time to point out I was absolutely spot on about this latest signing ? I said due to timing and statements released from the club that it had to be another freebeie, so many doubted. God I hope we spend some money on someone special soon….