Morison to Millwall as McDermott’s Hunt for new players continues TSS June 28, 2013 Leeds United, Transfer News 85 Comments Steve Morison is set to join Millwall on a season-long loan deal, according to Sky Sports. The 29 year-old striker spent arguably the best years of his career with the London club, before moving to Norwich City for an undisclosed fee in 2011. Two years later, Norwich City arranged a cash plus Steve Morison deal to secure the transfer of Luciano Becchio from Leeds, a deal which drew widespread criticism from Whites fans. The nature of his arrival at Elland Road meant Leeds fans never really warmed to Steve Morison. The shadow of Luciano Becchio’s 20 goals in 31 appearances last season hung over Morison, with his goalscoring record of 3 in 16 matches doing little to appease fans’ frustrations. None of this was Morison’s fault of course. He’s just another victim of Ken Bates’ asset-stripping policies, the latest in a long line of players who’d been brought in on-the-cheap to replace the quality players the club had sold. Morison is said to be earning £17.000 per week according to the Yorkshire Evening Post and his loan move to Millwall will free up the wages Brian McDermott needs to complete the transfer of Noel Hunt. UPDATE: The club has now confirmed Steve Morison’s loan move to Millwall. Arnie Where’s the benefit of a loan if we need the cash for transfers? Surely a permanent transfer would be the best bet? I don’t really get this one if true. As this is Leeds, he’ll probably get a full pre-season and look an entirely different player with Millwall. Jumblatts It might be a loan with an option to buy later, which would make sense because from what we saw of him last season, who would want to buy him up front? Its swings and roundabouts for us to be honest, because it frees up his wages and although we dont get the cash from his transfer, theres no guarentee that it would go back into the budget anyway caseyrybac What good is that going to do us. 2m transfer or fcuk off millwall, lone deal my ass, that will not give us any cash for transfers. djedjedje Forget about transfer fees. We won’t be making any transfer bids involving cash (least not for anyone coming in to the club, maybe for leaving). It is all about wages for players on frees. I imagine Hunt and Mills season long lone will be the two McDermott has lined-up. Matthew Noel Hunt is a free agent though? He can’t be a loan lol ‘Walltillidie I think you mean LOAN – half breed! markman Accepting that Becchio was determined to leave leeds,i dont understand why we accepted an unfit Morison (and £200k) in exchange.why not straight cash. so we can now get Hunt and save £5k a week in wages. Presumably if Morison does well at milwall,they have an option to buy for a pittance. A shame that it looks like we are not getting murphy from crewe.just the sort of player we could do with.and he comes with wembley experience! Old Goat Murphy has gone to Blackburn, which means that even the much-maligned chicken merchants have more cash on the hip than the GFH spivs. Becchio, much as we loved him, is an example of the instability which affects football nowadays. He was 29. Maybe this was the time to make an example – no sunshine, you’re under contract until June 2014. You signed it. Don’t care if you have had your “head turned” by former colleagues now at Norwich. Now sit on thee bloody bench for the next several weeks till I tell you you can come on as a 91st minute sub. By the time your contract is up you’ll be old and knackered. Still want to move?? Instead we let him go to Norwich for a ridiculously low amount of money and a moderate player whom we’re now offloading to trim the wage bill because the GFH chancers can’t afford a pint of milk. FERGO I can’t help feeling this is wrong, a mistake and will come back to haunt us. WTF?! Haigho Sensible move, we get rid of a very average player and free up wages to bring in new faces who fit with McDermotts playing style. There are some useful players available on free transfers Dr Zen No, actually, we bring in another very average player in Noel Hunt. NottsWhite Why replace a striker who scores 1 in every 2 games (career average) with an older striker who scores 1 in every 4 ? It is worrying that we now need to move players out of the club to free up wages to bring in free transfers, how does this strengthen the squad ? and I thought that wages had been freed up by getting rid of Paul Rubbergloves, Kisnorbo etc… ? Is there basically no transfer budget and a reduced wage budget or are wages being apportioned for other freebies and loanees ? Ron Anyone else seeing the similarities thus far??? GFH are broke and no one has rolled in with a cash injection. McDermott is doing his best to sound upbeat, although you can tell this sell-to-buy news has caught him off-guard. Matthew Why are we helping Millwall stay in the Championship? The sooner they fuck off to League 1 and lower the better. Jumblatts Have you seen Steve morrisson recently? unless its just the old leeds curse whereby good players become shit when they sign for us, i doubt he would help them much Matthew He was mildly successful there with his goal scoring abilities. Damn man, when they lost Chris Wood in Jan, they were so close to relegation by seasons end. It sucks that he’ll probably keep them up. I know what kind of player he is, and know how he plays but different players can play differently at different clubs. Jumblatts Whilst i agree it would be nice if they went down, in the end all that really matters to me is leeds, and if offloading him to millwall means we can get a player in who will do a job for us, then the sooner the better in my opinion henrymouni We have to have faith in Brian, and get behind him. Any players we are approached about will probably go, with 3 or 4 exceptions. Brian is very positive, and this should rub off on the lads! DC A few more to go would be nice, free up more wages, then BM can get his targets in. gistheman I don’t think that Morrison is to free wages for hunt if that is who has agreed to come verbally??? May be bm has other or others of his targets waiting to come once he gets the wages ballanced prob be wrong like, but is possible too. May be Sheffield wed will come in and buy Pugh for 3 / 4k wishfully I know they did seem happy with him ??? Apart from midfield do we really have surplus anywhere else ??? henrymouni Maybe Ryan Hall; Michael Brown; Michael Tonge ; Habibou if he is still here. The problem is most of the squad will be available if someone comes in for them. gistheman Yes you prob right, but bm has said he isn’t selling byram, the club has also said they will back him. I know if a silly offer comes in then he will go. Hall hasn’t been given a chance apart from hudds. Brown we prob couldn’t give him away lol. As for tonge good for the squad I think. Habibou was on loan and went back before last season ended. henrymouni Other clubs know our situation, and Sam may well go at a cut price. We have done it before. I still have not got over the price we got for Lennon from Spurs!! And many others besides. It is out of our hands, thank goodness. Irving08 Christ, I had forgotten about that lot. I don’t fancy any of them. pedro goldisco All i can say is GFH/Bates have knacked it all up for themselves. So a post i saw earlier, support the club but don’t spend any money in the ground i agree with. As other people say, we are a Portsmouth in the making!!! Take note. henrymouni I don’t think that will help Pedro. GFH do not have the money to do any more. Our main aim is to keep the club alive and hope for a new investor, who loves the club, and has money to clear the debts and support the manager. In the meantime BM has to relay on our 100% support on matchday. TSS That could be the most bizarre comment I’ve ever read on here (which is quite something). You want to avoid doing a Portsmouth by stopping the club from making money in an attempt to make them spend money (that we don’t have)? You realise that Portsmouth fucked up because they had no money and spent beyond their means, leaving them in serious debt and freefalling down divisions – which is exactly what will happen if fans do what you’re proposing. You’re basically suggesting the club puts itself further into debt, which is madness, frankly. The club is skint. Has been for some time. We can’t spend money we’re not making, and we’re not making money because Bates spent 8 years fucking us over and fans aren’t turning up any more. Staying away or not supporting the club by making purchases in ER only makes matters worse, but if you want another trip to League One, go ahead. Fans can’t have it both ways. You want the club to spend money on players, the club has to be making money. The cheaper ticket prices you demanded haven’t helped that, we’re losing more money now than ever before. And you can blame GFH all you want, but what do you expect them to do exactly? They’re looking for investment, but no one is interested in a club who are losing money and can’t sell tickets. Fans turn up and fill Elland Road, Leeds make money, Leeds can buy players. Alternatively, fans can continue to stay-away, the club will lose even more money and we’ll be in administration within a few months. Will happen even sooner if GFH buckle to pressure and put us further into debt by borrowing heavily to buy players we can’t afford. The situation is fucked. It really is. But Bates caused it, not GFH. They’re only guilty of not lavishing us with funds and buying us success (which is what most people seem to think modern football is all about). Fans make football clubs successful, ours are failing us. Matthew Well said, best post I’ve seen here in years. kev raunds well said sir DUBLIN LUFC We’ll see if your right at the end of next season.Might want to take a look at the french league table, see where Monaco end up. Fans make clubs successful me bollix. (av. attendance for Monaco last season 6,000 odd). Clubs go nowhere with no money. Footballs a business and business is about risks. TSS Of course it’s about money, what do you think fans bring? When 60% of your income comes from ticket sales (and the rest comes from fans indirectly too), it’s all about the fans. We don’t have the luxury of high TV income in this division (like Monaco do). Dr Zen It’s the fans’ fault? Unbelievable. No, it’s the fault of chancers who hope to turn a profit out of the loyalty of those fans. We needed investment. Not a huge amount. Just a little. They don’t have even a little, not a pot to piss in. I don’t want them to borrow money. I want them to take their profit and fuck off. TSS No, it’s Bates’ fault. He created this situation. But he’s gone now, so if fans really want to turn things around then they need to start putting some cash back into the club. For years fans used the Bates excuse to avoid matches, then it was ticket prices, now it’s a lack of spending. There’s always an excuse. Leeds are where they are because we don’t make the money to be any higher. And that’s on us. Matthew A positive of all this, is that Paul Rachubka is no longer drawing a wage from us. People might remember him as the best goalkeeper this club has had in years Andy Pedro, your comments are noble, but make no difference to me. I will only re-attend Elland Road when the club show their intent. Okay, we are skint and cannot afford players, well perhaps they could start by discarding Bates from his president role – I may then consider coming back !. TSS Isn’t that the very definition of a glory hunter? You’ll turn up when times are good, and boycott the rest of the time… Times will be good when people turn up and start pumping money into the club. Ticket sales account for about 60% of our income, if people like yourself continue to stay-away, we’ll never be able to afford new players. Matthew That’s what some people can’t understand, they expect a few million to be spent by GFH, players to be offered good wages to come here and still have their cake and eat it. If some fans want players, they have to actually go to games. No wonder GFH are looking to downsize a little when last season it was quite common to see crowds under 20,000 at ER. While most so called fans will give the Ken Bates excuse, fact remains if you starve the club of money, you can’t expect to get your own way. (I know a lot of people prefer away games because the home atmosphere is shit these days). GFH understand that money has to be invested in the team but if none is available, then it can’t be helped. Perhaps if fans supported the team in greater numbers, we might see more in the Christmas window. If they elect to continue their so called Boycott and stick to twitter whining about investment then things won’t change. Either way someone has to restructure the club because of the Bates projects and the lack of fan support. DUBLIN LUFC Bollocks. Everyone has the right to protest anyway they wont. GFH should no one of the principles of business. You have to spend money to make money. THEIR MONEY. Matthew Perhaps you should know the principles of business before slating GFH. The club is losing money, you can’t spend what you don’t have, and while fans are continuing to play keep away, you don’t have much of a right to complain. Get behind the team, support the team on matchdays. Instead of sitting on twitter or on forums crying about the lack of investment. I personally am looking forward to Farsley next week, and the upcoming season. I’m optimistic we’l do fairly well. DUBLIN LUFC I think we’ve got a good chance against Farsley too. What I’m saying about GFH is they never should have bought us in the 1st place without funds for transfers, wages, etc. Its amateurish. When the takeover happened there were a lot of reports going around about GFH’s lack of success in their real job, Investment banking. With everything going around now, i just can’t understand why people are defending them. Truths out. Their fucking useless. Matthew Defending is the wrong term to use. They’ve inherited the shit Ken Bates has caused, and while fans aren’t attending games, things aren’t magically going to improve overnight. Common sense really, we all want success for the club, some of us are willing to wait whilst things are sorted out. I’m in all honesty happy in the Championship, it’s a very even league, we don’t have to worry about being slaughtered by a team with more money. If GFH didn’t acquire us, judging by the way the club was headed, where do you think we’d be now? Pisses me off that the transfer window isn’t even open yet, yet somehow our Season is over before it began? Get real. djedjedje Spot on, Dublin. Colin Matthew, don’t have a go at Dublin or any fans who choose not to attend. That’s our choice. You’re obviously a businessman. So tell me, how are Leeds United losing money? And why would any company like GFH-C buy a company that loses money? Matthew Having a go? How Leeds are losing money? Have you been paying attention lately? It’s all out there on various websites, reports etc, what Bates has done to this club, which the club is now paying the price for. By no means am I having ‘a go’ I’m mearly stating that those who don’t attend games don’t have much of a right to slate the club or its ownership. You’re fully entitled to your opinions and I respect that. djedjedje But GFH took nearly a year to do their due diligence. They must have known how poor the finances are. At which point surely a viable business, especially an investment bank, would have weighed up the pros and cons of continuing a purchase. The con is obviously the net loss, the pro could only have been that through investment this could be turned around. Without it a loss will continue to be a loss. Secondly, I’d like to know more about what happened to the talks about a majority share ownership by Pearson/Parkin this springtime. Sure, Pearson said he wasn’t interested (which may or may not have been the case), but Parkin made the right noises. Ask yourself why GFH didn’t sell? I’d hazard a guess that the reason was not the future financial betterment of Leeds United as a football club , but rather the financial betterment of GFH as financial speculators on Leeds United’s success. I’m not saying GFH should had sold, but we need to keep open to the warning that they do not have the same interest in Leeds United as the fans do. Would Leeds United as a football club be in a better financial and footballing position had they cashed in their chips for less to Parkin in spring? I believe so. So, no, I won’t be bedfellows with GFH until they show some me something to suggest that they have Leeds United’s best interest at heart. Matthew They could of bought us as a long term project, that’s not uncommon in this day and age for people or businesses to buy into something and expect to profit from it in the distant future. We have no way of knowing about other offers to be honest, if a concrete, solid offer was put on the table I’m sure we would of heard something more. Anyone can talk up buying a football club, they have to prove they have the finances to complete a sale. And anyway, what’s to say things will be different with Parkin and co? This club is losing money, where are they going to magic up a few million to pump into the squad? Genuine question.. Someone would need a LOT of money to financially support a football club the size of Leeds United, I’m talking a few hundred million to realistically keep us in the Premier League over time. It can be done on less but again, whoever buys us needs excess cash. Where are these people? Until I see concrete proof that they don’t have the clubs best interest at heart and are looking to fuck us over, I’m happy to give anyone who buys us a chance. DUBLIN LUFC When did the penny drop for you Ken Bates wasn’t taking us back to the promised land? A few hundred million?? Were after £3m! Maybe Bates wasn’t being quite so honest when he said he was selling us to the best possible people? or just the pricks desperate enough to give him a presidential role.Glad your happy with championship football Matthew, don’t worry we’ll be scratching around the lower leagues for a while yet. You can thank GFH for that. Matthew What the fuck are you talking about? Where did I say Ken Bates was taking us back to the promised land? Are you even reading what I’m posting? Jesus Christ. You’re now coming across as incoherent. Are you high? Or have you downed a few dozen beers? I won’t be thanking GFH for years of Championship football. Ken Bates put this club in the shit state that it’s in, not GFH. Regardless, I’ll be following this club whatever league it’s in. I won’t however be whining on twitter and on forums instead of supporting the team I love. DUBLIN LUFC ‘I’m happy to give anyone who buys us a chance’. there your words, what i was wondering was how long a period of gratis did you give Bates when he took over? Bates/GFH buy clubs to profit. You owe them nothing they don’t earn. (Mad out of it on brown by the way, but that’s my business.) Matthew Anyone that wants to move the club forward is deserving of a chance, until that chance is broken. Not backing a manager to the liking of the fans isn’t chance breaking, fans need to get behind the team and actually attend matches for the club to MAKE money and thus spend on the team. I want to see stability at this club and success, both will come in time. I’m not childish enough to want everything NOW. Welcome to the real world. spellz There was valid points all round in this discussion, nice debate lads. henrymouni Matthew and I have been going hammer and tongs over GFH. I have never had any faith in them. Their lack of success with other ‘projects’ and their bull/lies to us and NW & BM cannot be ignored. They bought this club knowing exactly what our income was and what ALL our liabilities were. Bares asked for an amount on money and after due diligence of the most thorough kind, they agreed a reduced fee to allow for the £19m debt. This gave them a figure they could just afford. In other words they never had the original price, and were looking for a reduction somewhere. A real investor would have: A. ensured he could clear the debt. B. Have investment available to improve the squad in a modest way. They offered BM £3, which was never there. Why did Bates sell to them and why did they keep him on knowing how we all felt, and knowing his character?? Where TSS, Matthew and I agree is that we are stuck with what we have, and we must rally round the manager and support the club. We do not want liquidation again!!! BM will be bringing some people in, although he will probably have to sell – no change there! He is the best manager we have had since Wilko me thinks. i feel confident whoever he ends up with, he will make the squad perform. One of the main reasons fans have stayed away is not Bates, it is the team performances. If we had reached the play-offs the ground would have been heaving. Good team performances is our main goal!! Get behind the manager and the team, and hope for an investor with real money. I am sure a vibrant ground and team will attract a real owner!! Onward and upward. DUBLIN LUFC For me there’s a difference to supporting the club, backing the manager and having blind faith in GFH. Agree with you completely. Up to the individual if they go to games or not. henrymouni I know there are some fans who still think GFH are ok – not many though. My worry is that Bates has really dropped us in it this time. My fear is administration! I could not stand that again. We cannot do much about GFH, but we can support our club to keep it afloat. At least we know where we stand now. If Brian can get the team playing football, and we can compete, that will do for me and fans will return. I know some people on here thought I was too hard of GFH in the past, but I was worried that we fans would be expecting too much. I was worried Brian would walk when they let him down. He is a better man than that, than goodness, but he needs to feel us in his corner. I am relieved that it is out in the open, even though it is not good. I am really excited about this season, and cannot wait!!!! djedjedje I think GFH’s business model is quite clear, actually. They bought us for c.£24m with the ambition to cash in on us as a Premiership outfit within three seasons (I speculate). They have no money other than that of the so-say ‘sole investor’/ or money borrowed by them to buy us. But that is OK as the riches of the Premiership would make the club worth at least fourfold over night if promoted. But we are making a loss of somewhere in the region of £2m per season, which they knew when they bought us. Therefore, for every season we don’t get promoted, and we are in their second season now, they’ll need to find ‘new investors’ to bring in the £2m. What will be the outcome of this? Well, by bringing in new investors they’ll dilute their own ownership share by selling off tranches of the club. Only I doubt they’ll ask for the mere £2m form investors, but instead will aim for nearer £4m. So that is 4/24ths sold off in the first year – so from 100% ownership to 83% at the end of their first season; then 4/20ths sold off in the next season, so 83% ownership down to 66%; and a third season will see them sell another £4m tranche from their remaining shares, which will take their outright ownership to 50%. To rish another season at Leeds would take their business model/gamble out of their hands – so they must sell at the end of the 2014-2015 season. Why would they do this? Well, it’s a relatively safe way of not losing their money (as long as the club doesn’t go bust). If after three seasons we are in a no better position they can sell their remaining 50% of the club for c. £15-20m (presuming the value of the club has risen now the Ticketus scam is behind us in 2015, and possibly a few youth players have blossomed to make the squad more valuable). Add to this figure the £2m they will take home from each tranche sale that exceeds the £2m annual deficit, and that should mean that after three seasons, should they sell up their 50% share, then they wont have lost more than a million or two. That’s not bad for three lucky strikes at the riches of the Premiership. And it is the holy grail of the Premiership that is what brought them here in the first place (Patel said as much in an interview a few months ago). Had we gone up this season then their £25m investment would have been worth well over £100m. But even if it took until the third season when their share was only 50% of the club, if we went up then on this now c.£12-15m investment they’d still profit in excess of £50m by selling up. Very worryingly, Patel showed how GFH view Leeds in the Premiership in an interview in February. He said “We do not wish to make a short-term profit to miss out on the £150m-£200m which could be made if the club wins promotion to the Premier League.” (see http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/feb/15/leeds-united-new-owners-ken-bates) Either £150-200m means (an optimistic) value of cashing in the chips the second Leeds get promoted. Or, and more worrying, it is the gross profit to be made on Leeds getting promoted and simply swiping the club’s Premiership TV money and three years parachute payments on relegation with no investment of the riches of the Premiership in the Leeds squad. They wouldn’t be the first cynical bunch of bastards to employ such a method. Until I see concrete proof that GFH have ever delivered on any of their business ventures then I have a deep suspicion of their intentions and/or ability to take us forward. Matthew To be fair, the club has liabilities that need paying, aka Ken Bates projects. Look at where the Season ticket money is going for example. I just find completely and utterly fucking ridiculous that some people are getting so fucking angry and hate filled when 1) The transfer window isn’t open yet. 2) The season hasn’t started yet. 3) See points 1 and 2. I don’t think I’ll be bothering with the LUFC hashtag until the season starts on Twitter, it’s ridiculous. DUBLIN LUFC At least its a plan. I was worried for a minute they didn’t know what they were doing. TSS How GFH do financially is of no real relevance to Leeds, people focus on that too much. You have to consider Leeds United as a standalone business (because it is). GFH will make their money from selling the business at a later date (which doesn’t effect the club’s cashflow at all), or through dividends (which we’d have to be profiting for them to receive). Leeds United’s accounts aren’t tied to those of GFH, our income and expenditure is our own. As it always has been, and always will be. Much like owning a piece of art, the business of Leeds United never changes no matter who the owner is. The art is a constant. But the value of it varies based on circumstance. When most investors buy a business, very few plan to sink millions of pounds into them. They pay the initial price, then aim to restructure the business and alter it’s circumstances so that the value of the asset increases and they can sell it on at a later date. in the mean time, all they really want from the businesses accounts is for them to be healthy, because it increases the value of the business. Syphoning cash out of it doesn’t help that (unless it’s dividends as these show a sustained ROI). A good example of this is Theo Paphitis from Dragon’s Den. He’s made millions buying struggling businesses and turning them round, not by pumping millions of his own money into them (he didn’t have any to start with) but by simply reducing outgoings and increasing sales. So GFH’s accounts are trivial (much like Theo’s were to Stationary Box and La Senza). Yes, Leeds United feature in them, but it’s not our income that’s adding to their bottom line, it’s the value of the asset. GFH’s value increases if Leeds United’s value increases (just like Theo’s net worth increases when his businesses do), not because they take money from the club, but the opposite – because the club is making more money and is worth more at resale. So the accounts people should really be concerned with are Leeds’. Ours show we’re losing money year-on-year, which is something GFH need to change to make the club a more attractive investment. Pumping cash in doesn’t do that, it only shows that the club can’t sustain itself and requires funds from elsewhere to keep going. You shouldn’t think of GFH as owners because it confuses the issue with them being a business themselves. Instead, you should think of GFH as the business manager, the people responsible for balancing Leeds United’s books and trying to get the club back on solid ground financially. Our very own Theo – hopefully just as good as him. Our last business manager (Bates) invested so much of the club’s income in vanity projects, Leeds United are in a worrying position. Our new business manager (GFH) need to find a way to dramatically increase income – which they tried by gambling on reduced ticket prices, but the fans didn’t respond – or reducing expenditure. Or both. Whatever they do, if Leeds United are to balance the books, they can’t spend huge sums on transfers. It’d be a huge gamble, one which would quite probably mean promotion or bust. Quite simply, we need to start making money (not having it handed to us) for us to be successful. djedjedje The analogy of football clubs as businesses with any other type of business never seems to sit neatly in my opinion – largely because we are ‘trapped’ consumers disinterested in consuming from competing clubs – but I appreciate the thinking behind the response. Personally I prefer to see football supporters and their clubs as akin to national economies. Tax dodgers like Bates aside, we’re all ‘trapped’ in our national economy, for better or worse. The football argument of cost-cutting or instead spending for growth (ie. promotion) has echoes of current national politics. Without caring to label my persuasion, I’ve a soft spot for a touch of the Keynesian economics. Only a touch mind, so for GFHC to borrow a few hundred thousand (what the hell, £1-1.5m to include wages) to have allowed McDermott to have signed one of his targets in June would have likely had a nice positive buzz amongst Leeds fans and an uptake in season ticket sales. You have to wonder how much of a trickle down from a debt-to-purchase-player would be needed to transform itself into season ticket sales to break even on the money borrowed? 2,000, perhaps? 3,000 extra season tickets tops? I think this is where the new V-C’s appalling press release this week has failed us. They will borrow a bit to spend, but they shouldn’t have set the alarm bells ringing before the press release of McDermott and smiley-new-signing holding up the Leeds shirt for the cameras. As you might have picked up on from between the lines, a key part of my argument/concern/quibble is that I don’t have a lot of faith in GFH(c?) as our business manager, and would gladly prefer Theo Paphitis running our club than Haigh, Patel and our V-C. Why? Because Theo has a proven track record that is easily identified in how to run businesses. GFH(c) don’t. I’m sorry, but I don’t call property speculation in a property bubble in the desert any pedigree of business acumen. That’s child’s play. The only skill in that game is knowing when to get out, and in that they spectacularly failed. As for their other ventures in India and N. Africa, suspect deals and incomplete delivery on construction schemes? Very unimpressive. Of course I am only second guessing from secondhand journalism that has poked its nose into their dung. But let’s be honest, if they had ever delivered any level of impressive business, wherever in the world, they’d have been giving it the PR spin long and hard during the due diligence plans to woo Leeds fans of their ‘credibility’. Instead we got some sidestepping and Haigh being pushed forth with swollen chest declaring how much of a Leeds United fan he’s always been. Of course this shouldn’t concern me as a Leeds fan, it is their club afterall. Only the last few weeks has shown ever so clearly that as Leeds United consumers (and they interested in us as consumers, not fans) they are entirely reliant on us to pay their way, just as we are entirely reliant on them to steer the helm of Leeds United as a business and not be reckless in spending or asset-stripping. To me that’s a partnership, and for which I think they should be honest and court Leeds fans for investment as a limited share option. There’s money in this here city, enough to pump a few million for players or stopgap the debts for a season. But why wont they? Dilution of their ownership and being forced to have Leeds fans – of some kind – on the board. But they aren’t that open for that kind of thing and would prefer to borrow instead… As it stands, I neither implore Leeds fans to pay their annual dues over to the club, nor to boycott doing so. Fans, and they are fans regardless, can pick and choose what they do with their cash, and in this economic climate have every right to be rational and not piss it away on Leeds United. So the argument of invest (‘back’ the team, in every sense of that word) or boycott is one I’ll gladly sidestep getting involved in. I just hope to see Elland Road as full as possible just as I hope to see us play the best quality of football we can. But I do reckon we’ll muddle on quite splendidly regardless of this debate. McDermott and the team, especially the type of football we play, will warm Leeds fans hearts. The knock on is the increase in gate receipts. Should we be floating around the top 6 then a good few fair-weather fans will be back. Should we push the top 3 then about 10,000 or so of them will likely reappear at Elland Road. A quick shot in the arm in the transfer window would have greatly enhanced this, but it isn’t the be all. TSS The country instead of business argument makes a lot of sense. Trouble is, we’re North Korea in that situation, banks won’t lend to us because of our previous indiscretions. henrymouni Seems clear also that investors in the club (like our Chairman soon to be) will see their money sucked in to service our debt. GFH are stretched (as KB was) to the limit. We have to look to ourselves and our manager, and get behind the team if we want a future. GFH are just a passing black cloud, that will float away. In the meantime MOT. We cannot hurt GRF like we could KB, because it is not their money! Time to lift our heads and forget the rest. TSS Parkin doesn’t have the money. He had a backer who pulled out and was looking for someone else, but that was months ago now. No one is interested in investing in a business that can’t show any chance of a ROI. It’s all well and good people pointing to the lucrative revenues available in Prem, but that’s true for every team and there are better-placed clubs than Leeds in that respect, whose finances aren’t a catastrophe following 8 years of Bates. TSS I’m starting to think Leeds United fans are responsible for the global economic crisis. That’s not how business works at all. Sure, there’s an investment when you start out and sometimes to expand, but business owners very rarely spend their own money (they usually spend the banks or investors – options Leeds don’t have, partly because we’re not making money. Banks don’t lend to businesses who can’t repay, and investors would take some convincing too). The idea is to take the customers money (the businesses income) and profit from it/spend it to grow. If you’re spending more than you’re making (which Leeds already are) you need to start increasing your income or reducing your outgoings. Quickly. And yes, you can protest however you like, but reducing the clubs income only means they can spend even less. No matter how you try to justify it to yourself, you’re making matters worse. DUBLIN LUFC The ticketus debt means gate receipts won’t be spent on the team which is the only way football clubs can progress. Football clubs aren’t comparable to stationary manufacturers their is no Champions League for the best pencil sharpeners in Europe. The rewards for getting promoted to the Premier League are so great that any chance of making it back requires some risks. We don’t take any risks but the other teams around us will. What we have in our favor is a good manager,a academy that still produces players and the potential for big crowds. These things limit the risk for GFH and they still thought they could do it on the cheap. At the least I’d expect them to sell if a real bidder comes in for the club and drop their fantasy, go home with what they put in and admit their projects failed. TSS Of course they are, all businesses – football included – work on the exact same basis. When your outgoings exceed your income, you have problems. Spending money we don’t have would be doing just that. But back to the TicketUs debt. Yes, it does mean we don’t have cash for players (Bates’ fault), but if you boycott it makes things even worse. Say people boycott to the tune of £2m, Leeds United lose £2m. That’s £2m they have to make up somewhere, £2m that will probably come from next seasons ticket sales because they can’t afford it any other way. And that’s in addition to the money we’re already losing season-on-season, so double that figure and now Leeds have to find £4m from somewhere, all while fans are outside demanding money be spent. Before you know it, more fans are boycotting because Leeds can’t afford to buy players and we lose another £2m, on top of the £4m from last season and the £4m hole we still haven’t plugged. Now it’s £10m and the taxman is placing us into admin. That’s how businesses go under. If you want to boycott, feel free. But don’t pretend you’re doing it for some kind of moral reason, do so knowing that Leeds United’s financial situation is incredibly weak and that by boycotting, you’re making matters worse. It doesn’t force the club to buy players because the club hasn’t got money to buy players, so you’re boycotting for no reason at all. All you’re doing is making sure the club has even less money and forcing them into financial crisis. Colin Fine, attend the games if you want to. But be aware that 75% of your money on tickets this season goes to Ticketus (part of the Rangers demise). So don’t expect any of the money from ticket sales to provide any more revenue to the team. The remaining money will barely cover the LUFC staff costs. Thank Ken for the Ticketus deal. It’s a problem that GFH-C have inherited. Matthew I fully acknowledge this. I’m just committed to stand by the club and team during the hard times. I’m not the only one. I don’t think it’ll do much good slating GFH for inheriting the mess Bates has caused, we wern’t a million miles off the playoffs last season, with a few sensible extras and a bit of luck, we should have a good chance of reaching them. I think squad strength on paper doesn’t tell the whole story. Wolves had a better team than us on paper and were relegated, having some heart, and a desire to achieve something + the means to do so will make all the difference. We’re currently on 0 points with 46 games to go, even if the odds of us hitting the playoffs are 10 percent, until its physically impossible to do so, it’ll be the same as 100 percent to me. Colin Matthew, Firstly, I have NEVER slated GFH. Secondly, there was not a cat in hell’s chance of that team being promoted through the playoffs last season. We were much closer to being relegated. Matthew Sorry, I should of been more clear. I was talking about the general feeling and tone around here and on twitter. I know, I fully acknowledge that. I was speaking about how close we were to the playoffs despite playing badly. We have the right manager, and with a few sensible additions I think we could get there. TSS It’s nowhere near 75%, it’s not even a percentage figure. Leeds had to repay a flat fee somewhere in the region of £3-4m if memory serves, a loan which was secured against ST sales – so the first £3-4m generated went to TicketUs. But how do you think NOT attending games helps that situation anyway? Do you think that if we don’t buy season tickets, the loan goes away? It doesn’t work like that, Leeds just lose even more money and our situation gets even worse. If anything, the TicketUs debt Bates left us with SHOULD encourage more fans to be buying tickets to get Leeds United out of this mess before we end up in a similar situation to Rangers. But this was my earlier point – too many Leeds fans only turn up in the good times, failing to recognise how much they’re prolonging the bad times. It’s not GFH’s fault Leeds are losing money, that’s was Bates’ doing, and only the fans can change that. Makes me laugh that some fans think they’re taking some kind of moral stand by boycotting – what are you taking a stand against exactly? GFH NOT spending the millions of pounds we don’t have because fans aren’t turning up? What happens if they do spend millions we don’t have, burden the club with millions of pounds worth of debt and end up in admin? Will the stay-away fans be taking a stand against that too? Damned if you do… djedjedje To be fair, a glory hunter would barely know we existed until we hit some glory – so a boycott would not be of interest to them. Matthew He means a glory hunter as in someone who only backs their team when things are going well but jumps ship when things are going badly. Fans take the good with the bad. djedjedje You mean a ‘fair-weather fan’? My point was that we are distinctly lacking in glory to warrant troubles about any ‘glory supporters’. But it was a minor point to begin with… Matthew Dunno, seems we have a fair few that only go to games when we’re doing well, or if a Prem team like Scum, Arsenal, City, Chelsea are in town. Not saying people should go to every game, but just attending some to help a team you support isn’t unreasonable christayl83 some people on here really make me laugh lets be honest all the idiots who moaned and refused to go to games when bates owned the club are still moaning and refusing to go even though we have new owners, the way i see it is that gfh arent actually that bad so far have given in to majority of fans wishes in reducing season ticket prices and matchday prices, tgey brought in a very good manager in brian mcdermott but its still not good enough. so what theyre skint but we was skint before they took over so whats new?? seeing how the squad responded to mcdermott when he came in i actually thought these players were actually better than what we had been led to believe so maybe a full overhaul isnt needed anyway just a couple of tweaks…why cant we for once just f*****g get behind them.and give them a chance!!! MOT djedjedje ‘Better than Bates’ as a slogan of a new owner is hardly inspiring! I’d be hard pushed to think of any Championship side that has been taken over in the last few seasons that haven’t at least invested SOME money into the squad. Currently GFH have diminished the value of the squad and lessened the wage bill. It doesn’t make them de facto shit owners, but they are hardly progressive. That said, I have faith in the manager and the current squad to play with pride for Leeds United, so I’m not too fucked if the owners are currently facing the other way; I owe them no loyalty. DUBLIN LUFC This is Leeds in the post Bates era, not the golden dawn anyone had hoped for. Even the most pessimistic of GFH at the start couldn’t have believed we’ed be even more broke than we were before. Feel bad for McD, sacked unfairly at Reading not given the chance to suceed here. a good manager but he’ed have to be the messiah to pull this off. GFH are a sham, buying a club without a penny of their own to put in and we’ll all the pay the price. Fecked off So we basically sold an under contract, free scoring Becchio for £200k to a Premiership Club, we are a joke! Dr Zen I know right. But it’s our fault that we’re in the shit with no money to buy players. spellz All good out with warnocks dead wood, in with McD’s talent. Matthew July 1st can’t come soon enough. Better known as when the transfer window officially opens. spellz Yeah I am strangely optimistic giving the circumstances I do think we will have some great additions, we shall see. Matthew Me too. I’m not buying the doom and gloom going around. There’s no need for it. McDermott wouldn’t be here still if we were going to be worse off at the end of this window. We do need some Wingers quite desperately though, and they would fit with McDermotts playing style too. Noel Hunt seems pretty much a given, who would you like to see? I’ld take 2 CMs, a pacy winger and a dude or two on loan. spellz I wouldnt mind Snoddy back in all honesty (we can dream) I do believe we need to strengthen up midfield and permanently banish Brown and Austin to the bench although if Austin was match fit I believe he would do well and I loved his goal he scored at the end of the season it was quality he might well play better under McD. I would like to see some quality arrive in the shape of wingers equivalent to the likes of junior stanislas Chris Eagles or Ince would be a gem just pipedreams with the wages we have on offer but that type of quality. PAUL W I am glad that Steve Morison has gone back to Millwall on loan. Steve Morison is typical of so many players who have been outstanding for their previous clubs, but as soon as the play for Leeds they all seem to freeze and melt under pressure. Brian McDermott is a highly intelligent manager who must sign mentally strong players that can cope with playing for Leeds Utd. Perhaps players such as Danny Pugh and Ryan Hall could be the next players to be sent out on loan, so that new players can be brought into the Leeds squad.