There’s one thing Bates has been able to rely on throughout his time at Leeds United: media. This is hardly a coincidence. One of the first actions of our current majority-owner and chairman was to create “Yorkshire Radio” a local station dedicated to music nobody wanted to hear even when it was released, and more importantly a source of Leeds news and commentary. Bates’ employees – and I say Bates’ employees because Yorkshire Radio technically employed 0 staff in the latest published accounts – covered stories he wanted covering, and ignored certain others. No mention of the Levi court-case that apparently cost the club in the region of £3-4m while I was listening, but jubilant coverage of the WYP case that wins back roughly a quarter of that and cuts some costs on matchday (provided WYP still agree to police us – they don’t have to). Very little coverage of the takeover either. And once their match-day phone-in began hosting fans critical of Bates’ tenure, it became a phone-in with no calls. Why? According to Thom Kirwin, because there was only one call. Then, when told several people phoned in and got an engaged-sound or were cut off, because there was only one operator. I assume this one operator had a one-line switchboard, unlike previous seasons?

That’s Yorkshire Radio, your one-stop radio station for Leeds news and interviews – so long as said news and interviews back Bates. BBC Radio Leeds has been left out in the cold as Bates has refused to work with media that failed to give glowing praise. This has meant practically every national media outlet that shows any interest in the club is banned in some way. The Daily Mail, The BBC, The Guardian – it’s not one end of the political spectrum, it’s anybody Bates can’t control.

The YEP is a local newspaper. Like virtually every local paper, it’s sadly struggling to adapt in the 21st century. Leeds is, I guess, by far the biggest crowd-pleaser in the sports pages, and as such the YEP can’t afford to be banned by Bates either – unlike national media. David Conn of the Guardian rather excellently cuts through Bates’ nonsense on a fairly regular basis, the BBC asked “who owns Elland Road?”, how equally talented journalists like Phil Hay must wish on a regular basis they could do the same? The YEP hasn’t been a propaganda outlet for Bates, I’m not saying that at all, but surely they can’t risk being too critical of him for fear they lose one of their most lucrative markets?

That’s my opinion obviously, and I’m not trying to criticise the YEP at all. They’re a great news-source and more people should consider picking it up and thus supporting the local economy. And they have been critical of the club at times. Perhaps, in fact, they are doing an excellent job of being impartial? In either case, it should speak volumes to Bates that the paper has now seen fit to run this article, which you should definitely read. It confirms a lot, including a few of the rumours and “pub gossip” we’ve heard over the last few weeks:

  • Experts on football buyouts say most deals are completed within 2 months, some are completed in a matter of days. This is in its 3rd month.
  • In these experts’ eyes, the deal has “strayed into the realms of the ridiculous”
  • There is little left to do in the takeover, talks are dragging in the 11th hour over an “indemnity clause”*
  • The Middle-East Consortium are said to have funded financially-unstable Leeds throughout the summer.
  • The Consortium is now refusing any more funding of Bates’ Leeds.
  • Warnock has “nothing” in the way of transfer funds

Phil Hay concludes on the Warnock-angle:

Bates cannot or should not be oblivious to this. He cannot hear a manager like Warnock claim that his existing squad have “not a cat in hell’s chance” of seeing through a full Championship season and fail to see the problem. Supporters and journalists who offer that view are easy to ignore but not a 63-year-old with seven promotions behind him. The air smells of stagnation.

These are massive issues raised.

“Where’s all our money gone?” will be a familiar cry to Bates, and despite making £3m for Robert Snodgrass, and around £1m on other player sales, the club (who are estimated to have spent £2-3m overall) have literally no money according to Neil Warnock and the YEP.

We said as far back as May that there were money-troubles at Leeds, we showed that the club only makes profit through player sales, while the Leeds United Supporters Trust in a public meeting in June revealed that financial experts had looked at the books and came to the conclusion the club could be – and probably were – in significant cash-flow difficulties. A lot of businesses are profitable, this is the key thing to remember. What pushes many into administration is the lack of money to pay debts at any one point in time. This is the scenario that we believe Leeds is in. And this scenario is backed up all the way by the revelation that the potential buyers, whose agents were pictured at the Wolves game, scarves in hand, have been funding Leeds through the off-season. It certainly sheds light on why Snodgrass said he’d been given assurances last season, that hadn’t materialised, and that he couldn’t trust the club anymore. In fact, it’s easy to forget that several players complained to the L.U.S.T. about their frustration at the situation the club was in, in June. We believe that at least one has since been moved on.

Our signings might well be down to the buyers, not Bates. He couldn’t even afford that paper-thin squad we’ve got. This might make us think back to the Peltier deal of which Warnock declared he didn’t expect the deal could be done, and was quite surprised that it was done. Indeed, at a time when Leeds were able to afford Jason Pearce and then were beaten to the signing of the talented 22-year-old Joel Ward by Crystal Palace solely because Leeds lacked the funds to complete the deal, fans could be forgiven for wondering if any of our signings have been afforded by Bates rather than Middle-Eastern charity, and whether the £3m sale of Robert Snodgrass has not, in fact, been reinvested at all but was necessary for the paying off of the ludicrous levels of debt Ken Bates has once again run up at a football club. After all, a club already facing cash-flow issues must find that £3-4m legal bill over the Levi case awfully heavy, and £3m for Robert Snodgrass would, you would think, go a long way to easing that weight.

And so we are here, now, with 6 days left to complete the takeover if we want any chance of expanding a squad that our own manager says there is not a cat in hell’s chance of making the playoffs with over the 46 game season. We’ve already lost Green, who had looked good, and have been forced to pull Danny Pugh from the transfer list as backup. Neil Warnock has been forced into playing virtually unchanged sides on Saturday-Tuesday back-to-backs and has we have been turned over by Blackpool. There’s no shame in that, Blackpool are a great side, but the performance rang alarm-bells. Not only is a manager famously unconvinced by the loan-market pinning his hopes this season on loaning Premier League exiles in September (Danny Pugh was one such exile last season), but he has complained that his front-four probably can’t give him 100% on Saturday-Tuesday matches and has said he will have to rotate whether he likes it or not for the next one. Thankfully the next Tuesday match is against Oxford.

Rumour has it even Shaun Harvey has had enough. Bates has apparently taken a separate legal team to the club for this deal. All three sets of lawyers (his, the club’s, plus the buyers’) apparently advise him to sign this indemnity agreement, yet he still isn’t signing. Harvey has even met the L.U.S.T. to talk about stewarding issues and been photographed with chairman Gary Cooper.  If I’d said a few months ago Shaun Harvey and Gary Cooper would be pictured together smiling, I’d probably not be taken very seriously. There’s a wall of noise, as Phil Hay says, telling Bates to do the deal. The club’s official statement insisted they are only going to sell in the best interests of the club. Yet the best interests of a financially unstable club, losing its customers and facing the end of the transfer window with a depleted squad, are to be taken over by owners who are serious enough to have personally funded the club through the financially difficult off-season. Based on the leaks we fans receive, the negotiations that are going on now are purely for Ken Bates’ personal gain in my opinion.

So we end up where we begun. A team incapable of playing two matches in one week, and now so small a squad that you can’t rotate anyway. A manager asking the Youth Team Coach if there’s anybody at all who could fill the void on the subs bench, looking to loans after his “irons in the fire” melted, upset “sick-pots”, plummeting crowds (our largest income-source) and a negative and faltering start to the season. It didn’t have to be like this; our potential buyers have loaned money to a club that is in financial difficulties and struggles to get any sort of loan from banks even today. The terms of the sale has even been agreed in principle for quite a while. Fans have been falling over themselves to back Warnock’s team. But there’s one thing consistent in all this heartache and the broken dreams of tens of thousands: Kenneth William Bates.

*My understanding of an indemnity clause is that it is a guarantee by the seller that the buyers haven’t missed any skeletons in the closet. Therefore, if they have, he will have to pay. Insurance can be taken out for this, but like with other kinds of insurance, some people will be blacklisted by insurance companies.

63 Responses

  1. Michael

    Fantastic article. I honestly do wonder what goes through his head it angers me!

  2. Matthew Brown-Bolton

    he’s the aesopian dog in the manger Tim, he knows his times up, both on this planet and at Leeds, but for that £1 more he’ll screw us over, as callous as it sounds the only way he’ll go is in a box. Personally I think we should be asking his wife to give him some sense of perspective. Even if the deal isnt all he wanted and hes still sees some future revenue to come from it he needs to take the offer on the table now. He’ll get even less once hes driven us into administration – again, and this time round I wonder if he has any energy or should I say Bile left to manouvre his way round another one? at his worst i cant remember peter ridsdale as hated as ken bates is now, i fear for his safety now his address has been published, a terrible way to end things in anyones book. I cant think why he has let things come to this? We should look to the Chelsea purchase, abramovich some would have us believe pretty much had to strongarm him outof the ground and off the board.

  3. Eunuch Nemesis

    “The YEP hasn’t been a propaganda outlet for Bates, I’m not saying that
    at all, but surely they can’t risk being too critical of him fo fear
    they lose one of their most lucrative markets?”

    In what way are Leeds United lucrative for YP-YEP?
    The way I see it they could garner a much bigger customer base if they took the side of the fans.
    They could point out to the blind ones the blindingly obvious fact that they are funding this monster.
    As soon as he has to start dipping his hand in his pocket to pay the running costs he will flog the club super fast.

    • TimPM

      They’ll want access to players, managers, pressers for their inside scoops. They also want Leeds fans paying for their paper or hitting their website. And there are a lot of us – far more than other clubs in Yorkshire.

      • Eunuch's Nemesis

        inside scoops?
        What inside scoops exactly?
        They should be looking after their customers, they can invent just as much news as they get from ER.

      • Gordo Strach

        Great article Tim!! I’m from Dublin and I have never read as much of the YEP as this summer. Not sure why you don’t understand. If they don’t have access to Leeds they’ll loose readers!! Qulaity of their articles will drop. Simple!!
        From a summer that started with excitment, I’m completely deflated now!! Hopefully the buyers will just accept that Bates is a gimp and try to seal it without an indemnity clause, unlikely though!

  4. Eunuchs Nemesis

    One minute I have a message posted, the next it has melted into cyberspace ………..

  5. Chareose

    I think Mr BBs comment below about Abramovich strong arming him out of Chelsea is interesting………I cant see someone doing that again. Unfortunately I see only two likely scenarios….. Bates will wait until the transfer window closes before signing out of spite or the worse case that the takeover will fall through and we will have driove him out of elland road by boycotting our club and potentially driving it into the ground.
    The government needs to get involved. Football clubs arnt normal businesses because they effect entire communities directly……….Its unbeleivable that people like Risdale, the ex portsmouth owners and the rangers owners can simply stroll off and get involved in other clubs after presiding over a football clubs destruction……….. Always the fans must pay the price ! It needs to stop !

    • TimPM

      You could be right. Personally, looking at it, he (through the club) now owes the potential buyers money…

      In my view, we’re surely looking at administration if he doesn’t sign some sort of a deal soon. The crowd vs newly demoted Wolves on the opening day of the season was 23k, even though it was on Sky that’s shocking for a club our size. Blackburn tickets are hardly selling like hot-cakes.

      And if the club went to the wall all that would happen is the buyers would be able to pick it up far cheaper! They’d be one of the ones owed money so that’d help them try to pick it up out of admin?

      • Chareose

        This talk of Leeds owing the buyers money is hyperthetical or based in fact >?

      • TimPM

        Based on what the YEP sources have said which is that we’ve been supported by the buyers. Given we couldn’t afford anything before June and we’ve had money troubles, it would explain how we got through the off-season.

    • Sam

      Hilary Benn is the MP for Leeds Central, should we start sending her letters of concern? I think if Bates is pressured from as many sides as possible the more chance there is of him giving up.

  6. derbyshirewhite

    Surely this could end up in the courts. If our prospective new owners really have provided funds to the club they must have extracted some legal title other than just a Ken promise to repay? If Bates is now ducking and diving on the deal it may yet take the lawyers and a judge to sort it out.

    • Buckstone Whites

      The money will turn into a commercial sponsorship should the deal not go through. This isn’t (thankfully) going to the courts…

  7. The Peacock

    Great summary of our situation. I was looking forward to this season but the reality hit home after the poor show in the transfer market.Warnock did great to keep his chin up and spirit but it was obvious we were broke.The takeover can’t come quick enough but we been saying that for 3 months.MOT

  8. Craig

    So Ken isn’t prepared to bet a penny of his own money that there are no skeletons to be found. What a surprise. Those skeletons have come home to roost and Ken must be wishing he’d adopted more honest business practices from the beginning.

  9. Julian Grant

    As he said in the past that he would destroy the club you can all see what this bastard is doing!!!!!! He is not a fit and proper person to run the club and should be deemed so by the football associations. This man should be BANNED from this country and any assets seized, he pays no taxes and just pleases himself who he upsets. BATES you will be remembered by ALL fans as the evil one who owned OUR club and NEVER welcomed back to this city.

  10. tim campbell

    I feel even bates knows hes gotta get outta town and that he HAS to sign the deal. I am more of the opinion that out of spite he is dragging this out beyond the end of the transfer window. Now do the honourable thing you old fart and piss off!!

    • djedjedje

      That or the consortium has done the wise thing and set an ultimatum deadline for the deal to be signed by, say, the weekend before the transfer deadline.

      ***checks watch***

  11. tim campbell

    I feel even bates knows hes gotta get outta town and that he HAS to sign the deal. I am more of the opinion that out of spite he is dragging this out beyond the end of the transfer window. Now do the honourable thing you old fart and piss off!!

  12. Bluesman

    Does anyone have the balls to take Bates on and stay away from matches and stop all merchandising until he goes. Because, that is what it will take and that my push LUFC into administration. He has had his day, his time is up, he should go! It would be better if Suzanne took over running the club and finalising business interests. At least we would not have all the hang ups and awkwardness to attend to.

  13. Silverking

    I have watched Leeds since the 60s, having read this article it only leaves me with sadness.
    Where do we go from here, if he wont sell or sign this indemnity and has no way of filling in any lapses in the cash flow is he hoping the club will fold.

    • Buckstone Whites

      No – that would leave him with nothing. At the moment he stands to gain a substantial fee for the club. He will sign – maybe not until the transfer window is over out of spite.

  14. Paul Longden

    He is allegedly trying to secure a further payment should Leeds be promoted to the Prem he to the hard work he has put in…

    • Jumblatts

      Maybe if he put some money in and actually got us there he would be able to make demands like that, as it happens everyone with an ounce of sense knows he has done nothing to help this club

  15. henrymouni

    We have cleared out a lot of dead wood, and the squad is small, and average in quality.
    If this sale does not go through, we will have to add freebies and loans,
    and will end up with as much dead wood as we had before.
    NW was duped, and will now know how Simon felt.

  16. Tom

    If YP – YEP report what they know is factual & true about Ken Bates control/ running of Leeds United to the detriment of the clubs best interests and it’s fans this is likely to antagonise Bates. He will not be able to contain his arrogance, he may take the papers to court for libel ..this would be his downfall. KB would have to prove he is a fit and proper person who is running Leeds United appropriately!!!

  17. Michael Lazarou

    The more he feels we hate kb the more he wants to destroy the club by taking money out of the club to
    Ine his pocket and dragging the take over deal so Leeds won’t be able to sign players, so when he eventually goes he can stick two fingers up at us and be laughing that he left us in this state. So bates just fu—– sign and disappear no true Leeds fan wants to see your ugly mug face any more

  18. Will23

    Is talk of another dose of administration premature should these negotiations fail given the club has not got two brass farthings to rub together?

  19. Matthew

    This league is honestly quite frightening considering how teams are performing, especially ones I had us down for beating.
    Assuming this takeover happens before the next transfer window opens in Jan, we really do need to grind out over 30 points to go into our final 23 games with a hope of playoffs.
    10 wins and a few draws work for me, Warnock to get this will be doing a biblical miracle, akin to Moses parting the red sea. I would be happy as hell to see us with 35/36 points after 23 games, assuming Bates signs and we get some talent in and really excel.

  20. Paulxb

    Tim , another excellent article as was Phil Hays in the YEP.
    I have real concerns for the future of the club especially if the proposed takeover fails , I too have real fears administration will follow within days of the takeover collapsing.
    I have to mention though that this place and other serious blogs & message boards are worryingly outnumbered by Leeds message boards and supporter groups that belong to a completely different reality. You should not take the comments below as proof that the tide is turning against Bates ,you are probably preaching to the converted .
    Incredibly out there, there are large numbers of leeds fans who do not appreciate the dire situation the club is in , many spend their time speculating on such things as which players NW should go for , ridiculous names such as Maynard & Bothroyd. and whether the team should be playing a defensive 433 or attacking 442 , they ponder who we will play first when we get promoted to the premiership and whether we should increase capacity of the ground! This is not all interent based either , many none internet savvy fans have no interest whatsoever in any news from here or Twitter or YEP or Waccoe or LUST , they have and £4 programme , Paul Dews , Thom Kirwin and Peter Lorimer as their news sources on the club ..FFS!

    • TimPM

      Undoubtedly though I know there are a few who read who don’t agree with us…

      It’s something people have to expect when Bates owns all the media. This is why it’s massive that Phil Hay & YEP are now saying what I think most who do pay attention to the ins & outs at the club say. YEP have a massive respect and credibility. If Phil Hay was a blogger, and wrote what he did yesterday, people would ignore it as anti-Bates propaganda. God knows why they don’t just open their eyes up to facts.

      And to me the Kop is anti-Bates, our away fans are even more anti-Bates to me… that should say it all. We’re never going to have even 75% against Bates. Hell he’s terrorized one of the few members of Yorkshire consortium who did seem to genuinely care about the club, he’s spouted racist nonsense regularly, telling London why the riots happened (didn’t think he’d lived there for a while tbh) he’s banned people representing a fans group for disagreeing with him, he’s verbally abused anybody critical of him, and he’s wracked up debt – though as long as the bottom line says breaking even nobody seems to care.

      But imo, in the circumstances, the amount against him and the dwindling crowds should be telling him something?

      • Chareose

        This is an unbeleivably frustrating time…….. im getting more and more wound up at the lack of action on the take over….. And why does every pessamistic thing i say about Ken Bates always have to come true ??!
        There must be some legal angle the fans can go down to get rid of this leech >?

  21. Ken Baits

    I thought it about time I came on here and straightened a few of you morons out. First of all there are no money problems as I have all of yours and if your club goes under then a life’s ambition will have been fulfilled. And forget all this nonsense about me being carried out in a box.. I’ve had a word with the big man in the sky and Mr Harvey says I can go on slandering and threatening who I like as long as I like and then I’ll get Lash to write in the YEP that I am nearly as big a genius as I am a Chelsea supporter. I would write more but I have to go and find out why the Kaiser Chiefs are playing ‘I predict a riot’ outside the West Stand that I’m going to name after me, The Last Stand, or The Deluded Blue Scum Stand.. and stop sending pens, it’s your cash I want in return for heartache and misery in the form of dross on the pitch. God (talking to myself again) I’m glad the new seasons here so I can bait you all again..

  22. Leeds_Lad

    Make no mistake Bates will only be interested in his “personal gain” and the spin stating “in the best interests of the club” is rubbish . …. If he is financially unstable we must make him bankrupt by boycotting matches if necessary . ….. In addition if the takeover does collapse, any information unearthed that may prove Bates’ “dodgy dealings / ownership” concerning the Administration processes must be made public. ….. I am sure the Inland Revenue and Courts would be interested in the possibility of Bates spending his remaining years “At Her Majesties Pleasure” !

  23. deano

    Im sure ken knows that if the take over collapses then the fans anger and patience will be at an end. If this happens then the fans will vent their anger and fury by boycotting every home game until he has gone. whether or not that puts the club into administration or not. This has all gone on far to long now and the fans have come to the end of their patience FXXXING SIGN THOSE GOD DAMN PAPERS before its to late

  24. Colin

    Bates is the majority shareholder of lufc. If he doesn’t want to sell he doesn’t have to. If the takeover doesn’t go through then the only way to be rid of Bates is if the club goes into administration.
    However, I can’t see that happening unless we were relegated. Then the lack of money would force the club into admin.
    Question is, would you be happy to go back to League 1 for the sake of getting rid of Bates?

  25. Colin

    LUST’s latest comments sound very ominous. Seems to me that if this takeover isn’t signed by the end of august, then it’s game over.
    There’s not really any point for the new consortium pushing for a takeover if Ken continues to resist. It really is time to boycott the club in order to get the bastard out. And Yorkshire Radio’s lack of coverage on this issue and selective choosing of callers for the phone in and manipulation of tweets and emails in the post match forum is getting embarrassing now. They’re treating their listeners and paying LUTV subscribers like shit

    • TimPM

      I really doubt these buyers would just walk away because they miss a transfer window. They’ve put millions of pounds into the club apparently, are in it for the long haul, and the deal is 99.99% (pretty literally) agreed. I don’t know the legal ins and outs but Bates MUST have a legal obligation to sell once whatever these 1-2 kinks are, is sorted.

      The disagreements are significant enough to hold the deal up, but I doubt they’d see the takeover completely collapse? After all, do you think Bates/we could afford the cost involved in failing to sell the club once the buyers have been committed to a possibly multi-million pound due dilligence process?

      And if we go to administration (sounds quite possible, financial experts think it very possible) if these guys are creditors now, they’re in a great place to win it through admin.

      • Matthew

        We would only go into admistration because of the shit Bates is speanding our money on, the clubs money is going on everything but the team.

        For one, shut down the Bates radio, fuck off with these pointless vanity projects, if anything speand a little money on structural improvements of the stadium and leave it alone.
        And Bates needs to fuck off using the clubs money for his own ends, we’d have money if it wasnt for him.

      • TimPM

        Indeed… think of the legal costs alone. Guessing here based on reports, but at least £1.5m on that Jersey court case (which isn’t finished), £3-4m (plus costs) on the Levi court case (Levi says he might see Bates in court again soon…), I wonder how much they spent on the WYP case, and whether that eats into the money we won back?

        Put all that together and you’ve enough there to double the cash from Snoddy, Gradel and Howson easily.

      • Colin

        Tim, my thinking is that the new consortium is on a winner if Bates refuses to sign. They can pull out and go public and say that Bates was the problem for the takeover falling through. In that case there will be a massive backlash against Bates. After injuries kick in (they will) then we have no squad. Warnock could well walk. Bates would own a loss making entity and they could come back with a take it or leave it offer, knowing full well that the only alternative is Leeds going into admin or Ken having to start funding the club properly. If Ken says no to a takeover, we’re financially finished and so is Ken.

  26. Bluesman

    This is an extract from the Telegraph, Sport about 10 Talking Points from this weeks action. It says everything about Ken Bates and the reason we are all in trouble!!
    7 Why Leeds is No1 for shopping

    Norwich are one club to benefit from the talent drain at Leeds. On Saturday their midfield quartet featured three former Leeds players: Jonny Howson, Bradley Johnson and Robert Snodgrass, and all three impressed. There are bargains around in the lower leagues, especially if you drop in at Elland Road. Ken sign and fuck off!!!

  27. henrymouni

    Where has all this administration talk come from?
    We are one of the few clubs in the country to show a profit (OK by selling our best players)
    for several years now.
    In football you go into Admin’ when you owe 10’s of millions.
    It makes no sense. Like KB himself!

    • Matthew

      Bates has been wasting the clubs money on shit. With the income we have, had Bates not wasted the money on shit we could speand a few million most windows, offer decent wages which would of kept Howson, Johnson, Snoddy, Beckford etc and still be in a healthy state.
      A Millwall fan said it best on another Leeds forum, we’re not building a team, we’re restarting every season bringing in a whole new team almost, because Bates is asset stripping us.
      We have to build not break down every season.

      • henrymouni

        I see that Matthew, and you can add the hotel, and various other ground ‘improvements’, where massive borrowings have to be paid back, thus reducing the money for new players,
        And, of course Ken’s expensive court cases, that we get saddled with.
        He is an all round prat!
        But Administration??

      • Matthew

        It wouldn’t be in the best interest of Ken Bates to allow us to go into admistration, even though he has run us into the ground. If he wants as much money as possible from the club he would sell up before it reached that point. So frankly new owners would be busy dismantling the shit he’s done to us, which would give them something to do, whilst giving Warnock money. Win Win for us.
        Frankly if we are on the verge of admistration, say around Christmas, he would sell up and move on.

      • TimPM

        henrymouni I wrote a very long explanation but I’ll try to simplify it… ofc I’m no expert so this is just how I’ve thought about it:

        the LUST employed financial experts including one that Mr. Bates likes
        to use. They asked those experts to look at the latest available set of
        accounts, and using the information we know (e.g. we know first team
        costs compared to then, we know of a £5m loan, etc.) to extrapolate into
        the here and now. The experts all said the club would probably face
        very real cashflow problems.

        The accounts for 10-11 showed Bates had to give a temporary loan to the club (probably to ease cashflow problems) when our average was 27k and everything was looking good. Last season we had an average of about 24k, and the difference in that I’d guess at maybe £1.5m? Add to that the Levi court case costing (according to Mr. Levi) £3-4m plus some of his costs. Take away £1m for WYP case. Add £2.5m (plus interes, probably at high rates) on our East-stand loan. And our crowds hardly exactly rising. Just those off the top of my head equate to an extra £6.5-7.5m to find if I’m not wrong. Granted it’s hardly cold hard fact, but given financial experts seem to be worried, I’d be worried as a fan.

        Where do we come up with that money in player sales? £4m in player sales so far, and about £2-3m spent on buying players. Indeed, income from player sales is rarely up-front. Even ignoring that, we’re only eating £1m into that guessed figure, ceteris paribus. Maybe add in the contracts for catering etc. Bates has flogged, but I still don’t see how all that could bring us into black.

        Of course the big question is why, then, isn’t he selling McCormack & Becchio for a sum total of probably £5-7M? Well, that’s the question ain’t it!

        But this is the problem with Leeds. I would imagine, given the BVI fiasco half a century ago, the Irish bank thing, the numerous football administrations where Bates showed a very good use of loopholes etc., he is personally less credit-worthy than Leeds. That is pertinent to this because other owners, like at Boro, Forest, Hull, effectively buy debt using their personal fortunes (Bates doesn’t have much of one, yet) or by taking out loans themselves. We can’t. Meanwhile Leeds itself is only 5 years on from administration. Football’s also not a safe bet anymore and we’re in a global downturn. Where does the money come from? You’re right, we have to be a “profitable” business – which makes Bates’ idiot scheme of the East Stand so utterly perplexing unless he truly believed we’d get promotion by letting our best talent go? But then, this is the man who took a club who’d cut over £100m debt to roughly £20-25m over the space of a year and a bit, and pushed us into admin with £35m of debt a couple of years later. He’s not got a good record on this in my opinion, looking at that fact.

        Oh dear, it became a long post again sorry for that! :-)

      • henrymouni

        Thank you Tim, for taking the time and trouble to spell it out.
        I am confident that if he had sold Ross & Luciano, NW would have felt obliged to leave (I would, in his position).
        Ken cannot bluff NW so easily, and he knows the manager will not be silenced.
        NW has a newspaper column, and has a regard for the fans, that KB probably cannot understand,
        Ken “I saved Leeds” will lose any credibility he has left, if we return to administration.
        Why is an 80 year old still hanging on to Leeds?
        It makes no sense!
        There must be a 100 clubs in the Football League, in a worse state than us??

      • mrbigwheels

        Ken Bates still owns this club and I’m afraid can still bluff anyone he likes… so it appears!. He has bluffed Warnock and silenced him too. Neil isn’t going to walk because, imo, the challenge ahead is a personal one with support from the majority of fans. What I think is responsible to remember or take on board is that Bates is short of cash, the transfer window isn’t closed yet, Becchio is worth a bit of money all of a sudden and a few ‘prems’ are sniffing around. Bates has not signed anything yet!…and may not for quite a while. It could just get worse.

    • Matthew

      2011 Income: 32.6 million
      2011 Wage bill: 14.87 million
      Takes the piss. Fuck off Bates.

      • TimPM

        Also, based on that, a couple of seasons ago the cost for us being promoted would be £6m which I think is what ginge is talking about… Yet PL TV money is far, far more than that, not to mention the increased income from ticket sales that would pay for it anyway

  28. Simon O'Rourke

    Moe LUST inspired bollocks. When will you people learn? Gary Cooper is pure scum, he has been mapping this out for over a year. His plan is almost play-by-play in line with what I posted when his organisation planned the BS march. Bates is no angel, but LUST are continually putting this bollocks out in the public domain with no facts or tangible evidence to back up their claims.

    • Colin

      Your post would have credence were it not for the fact that LUST have nothing to gain or lose from the takeover. Simon, why are LUST talking BS? They have nothing to gain by doing so. Do you think we’re doing okay right now? Do you think we’re getting promoted to the PL under this regime?
      Actually, what the fuck is your point? What do you want?

    • Matthew

      Lust want change at Leeds United, we want change at Leeds United, everybody wants change at Leeds United, how the fuck are Lust a problem? We all want the same thing, they’re putting pressure on the club to do something, which is win win in the end.

    • TimPM

      Actually this is based on Phil Hay’s work for the YEP. Hay does not simply post what LUST tell him, he does his research.

      Nice try with your sad little agenda though mate.


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