Takeover Crisis: What We Know TimPM August 9, 2012 Leeds United 76 Comments Leeds United’s takeover looks to have hit the rocks today, with the Leeds United Supporters Trust breaking the news that takeover talks have apparently collapsed, and BBC seeming to reveal that Ken Bates has moved the goalposts at the last moment, while the Middle Eastern consortium is willing to complete a deal on the originally agreed terms. The Official site has just released a statement: Leeds United (‘The Club’) announces that the exclusivity period granted to a potential investor as mentioned in the statement of 26 June has ended. The Club remain happy to continue discussions, but not on an exclusive basis, so as not to prevent other options passing. The first priority must be to ensure that the credibility of any future investor or ultimate owner is such, that the Leeds legacy and its future is in safe hands, back in the Premiership. The Club will continue to be receptive to approaches from potential new partners who can establish that they have the necessary credentials. Meanwhile, it is encouraging that there is a new spirit at the club under the management of Neil Warnock and his ten new signings. This is basically an invitation to any other interested parties to start a bidding war. Fans will surely not be pleased that Bates is trying to make more money out of the sale at a time when the club’s squad is wafer-thin, and while there is a bid from the Middle East consortium that Bates found acceptable enough to apparently agree in principle to, allowing a period of exclusivity for them? Sure, people will say he has no obligation to sell, but we have no obligation not to complain if he screws up our chances and our club. We have heard that the takeover talks stalled as far back as June 26th, though we don’t know how reliable this is. It would make sense, though, with Robert Snodgrass seemingly happy to see how Warnock’s plans went until last month when something suddenly changed and he wanted to leave. We can say he had his head turned or he’s greedy, but it doesn’t fit with his previous attitude. Either way, don’t take that as gospel. Both Adam Pope and Phil Hay seem to have contacts who have suggested that the deal was changed at the last minute by Bates, and that the deal is not dead but close to it. I’m not a legal expert, but I heard if both parties agreed to a deal, one spent on due diligence, and the other pulled out, the one that pulled out would be liable for due diligence costs? In this case, Bates will have loaded the club with yet more debt on the eve of the new season as our squad looks worryingly thin. Neil Warnock seems to have reacted to the breakdown of talks by putting The Robbie Rogers (dot com) and Danny Pugh up for sale, despite being happy to give Pugh a squad number previously and taking a look at Rogers during pre-season. It’s clear Warnock is now putting players up for sale he might not choose to sell otherwise, because he needs to make money – whether you stay or go seems to be down to whether you can dictate a good fee from buyers. Our team looks to be only 15 men, with 2 he wants to loan out and 2 he wants to sell on the squad-numbers list. This is not a good start to the season. Shaun Harvey went to Monaco and spoke to Bates, and has returned to Leeds now. It is thought that Harvey is doing all he can to complete a takeover. If the rumours about him are right, then credit where credit’s due. Meanwhile, L.U.S.T. have released a statement, in it they say: We were told that in the last few days negotiations between Leeds United and the potential investors were delicately poised, and that yesterday Shaun Harvey flew to Monaco for discussions about the deal. This morning we were informed that the deal for a takeover of the club had collapsed. … As the day has progressed, we have done all we can to get a full picture of the situation at Elland Road. What has become clear to us is that events are moving quickly, and that urgent discussions have been taking place in the light of this deal’s collapse. Those discussions have resulted in this evening’s statement from Leeds United on their official website, which has confirmed that the period of exclusivity agreed with a potential investor has ended. Matthew Thing is. Warnock wont make any money really with the players that are currently up for sale, at least, not enough money to buy anyone of quality. Transfer listing these players to me seems like a cost cutting excercise and nothing more. Can anyone tell me who would buy, Ramon Nunez, Paul Con, Rachubka, Pugh, Rogers? They would have no problem(Besides Rachubka) in finding a club that would take them in for free, but none of these are what you’d call proven quality, at least quality that you’d put money down on(Besides maybe Pugh).. Rogers is a tragic case, poor guy is unlucky in the games he’s been in, and never had a full 90 minutes on the pitch for us, no one could honestly assess his quality and put money down on him, I wanted him to stay at least another season, more if hes proven to be good. This Takeover stuff fucking sucks. More so knowing that Bates is still at the helm, we’re the Titantic at the moment, we’re about to hit an iceberg. TimPM Exactly. I feel sorry for him, he’s fighting a losing battle but he’s fighting it bloody well… Matthew I genuinely feel for Robbie Rogers, very sad to see him go considering what has happened to him on the pitch and his injuries, the guy really wants to play for us, but never had that chance to make a difference at all. This is probably one of the first transfers I feel upset to see this window. captn ahab At least the Titanic was moving….I feel we are more like the iceberg! Going nowhere and slowly melting while things hit us! Matthew If we’re the iceberg, we’re the Iceberg that has drifted into the equator. Nice warm water for our iceberg, we’re not going to last long unless someone gets a big ol boat(More starship lol) and drags us back into cooler waters mrbigwheels Cost cutting excerise is totally correct Matthew. I said yesterday Bates would soon rise from his smiley summer break and he has with regard to the start of the new season. I work in the football industry lets say and agents seem to be in the know which filters though etc… Bates is going to drive Warnock to drink with his definitive management instructions, broken promises and pedantic, petulant attitude. If I said to you a squad of 18 and a reduced wage budget from previous approvals you should get the picture. This man is mad and living in his own orgasmic world. There are many of them about but very few that own a football club, certainly no one to match Kenneth Bates. There are very few answers for the majority but in reality there is only one thing to do and that is to walk away from this despot, he will ruin us all. Matthew Exactly my point, I think Bates has seen the wage bill and wants more people off the books. And has told Warnock to earmark 2 players to axe. This doesnt seem Striker driven to me, if it was il’d expect people of quality to be listed, like Ross McCormack(I think he’l be sold by end of Window personally), expect it. TimPM I thought we might’ve need a series of books to understand Bates, but you summed it up pretty perfectly mate: “This man is mad and living in his own orgasmic world.” IrishWhite Couldn’t agree more on the LUST statement, people seem to want to make them a scapegoat in all this despite the group working hard for the good of the club. Its almost suprising that we are all shocked when you consider this is typical Ken Bates to be an awkward bugger at the last minute. Can only hope the deal is resurrected and Bates can be sent packing to Monaco for good. knoxville888 until bates leaves or dies i QUIT! … snodgrass, howson, clayton, beckford, schmeicel, gradel, johnson, delph, rose, lennon, milner SIMON GRAYSON!!! DrD when I was just a little boy I asked my mother what should I be, should I be chelsea, should I be Leeds this is what she said to me ‘wash your mouth my son and go and get your father’s gun and shoot the chelsea scum, shoot the chelsea scum…… you know mum’s always right! maxwatson It’s kind of bizarre and it doesn’t feel like a bidding war, so much as just a miscalculation. Doing these deals is like buying a house – you agree a price, do a survey, if the survey finds anything serious you might go back and ask for something off. And the process for sorting that out might well have been in the original agreement. My guess – and it is purely a guess, though I’ve been through a DD process personally – is that some complication turned up (which, given the way Mr Bates conducts his business affairs, would have struck me as inevitable) and there was negotiation around the outcome, and it just reached deadlock. Sounds like Bates thinks a market value has been set and is trying to see if he can take it elsewhere. Can’t see it myself. maxwatson just thinking about it a little more on my drive home from work … – if one imagines a scenario where there were 2 bidders (remember the mooted Americans), bidder A offers £50m and bidder B offers £30m – provisionally accept bidder A’s offer, go into due diligence under exclusivity – due diligence reveals lots of issues, let’s say £25m worth, and results in bidder A’s offer = £50m – £25m = £25m – close off exclusivity and go back to bidder B to see if their process will be less strict, also puts pressure on bidder A to be more flexible. Would be a rational view. If you read about Bates’ behaviour in the BVI saga with the FCO, it was just the case that he overplayed his hand, which strikes me as being more the case. PS the due diligence will have been conducted between two teams of lawyers; the bidder’s lawyers will have recommended a position; it’s not necessarily a posture so much as a case of fiduciary responsibility, if they are anything like a public company. David Lockwood Good article Tim to bring us up to date with the shenanigans. What a dreadful state of affairs. Why can’t Bates just go? He is not wanted at Leeds United. It isn’t about big money coming in itwe need owners who we can trust and who listen to us! We now know why Snoddy walked, Howson and all the others. Broken promises to players, broken dreams fro the fan. A plan that leaves the team weaker each season. Next it will be the youngsters who are sold off!!! All of this just to feed old Bates’s pockets! Why does everyone keep feeding the monster? No more money from me until Bates has gone. Bates Out, Now!!!!!! John Interesting the ten new signings are mentioned, sounds like total KB bs, forgetting about all the players that have been shipped out. Also, it took this long for one consortium to get close to buying. So everytime we have a potential investor come in,. it will be another 2 months, then KB puts up the price again. It’s all more spin to keep the supporters off his back. TimPM Yeah, it does look a little like he’s miscalculated as @maxwatson suggested… If he was that desperate to sell he’d just sell though wouldn’t he? Or is he haunted by that deal with the British Government when we bribed him to leave BVI because he was such an irritant? He missed out on another $1mil according to the archives. Jumblatts i may be wrong, but wasnt it ready to sign 6 weeks ago, but bates stalled and stalled? in which case it may not take 2 months every time, having said that this is bates we’re talking about…. Lufc1979ish Bates has got some naive Leeds fans blaming LUST for all this, it appears Leeds united does have some moronic fans after all. If you can’t see what’s going on and want to blame LUST for this then go right ahead but you are playing right into his hands. Ever heard of divide and conquer, that’s all he’s doing give the fans a bone snatch it away at the eleventh hour and watch the Leeds fans bicker between themselves whilst he loads suitcases full of money off to Monaco. I feel sorry for the fans who bought season tickets on the back of this takeover. Let’s hope we can stick together and hit him where it hurts in his wallet and force him out. That will take a massive percentage of Leeds fans to wake up and smell the coffee first so I wont hold my breath. jj_jonny Why are LUST a scapgoat…well just yesterday this was the news form Gary Cooper….. Following on from their statement urging the club to update fans on progress, The Scratching Shed contacted Trust chairman Gary Cooper for an update. Our contact with the buyers told us over the weekend the hold up is firmly with Ken Bates and that they have been trying for some time to push the deal through, they remain confident it will happen. Cooper says that they remain confident it will happen….hours later and its deal off. Do they really know anything ? Why will I bother to listen to anything they say ? TSS I fail to see any inaccuracy in that statement? They said Ken Bates was stalling and today it was revealed that the deal has all but fallen through due to Bates changing terms of the deal. Makes perfect sense to me, or am I missing something? reddo No TSS youre not missing anything, but jonny is, He for some reason can’t see Bates is a prat who is not going to let go of this club, its as simple as that. Anyone who cannot see that is blind, Bates is here and he’s staying, I told my brother when this all started he wouldnt sell, I’ve been proved right. He is out to ruin leeds Utd, he said it and he’s doing it. Vancouver White Yes, I think you are missing a whole lot, just like we all are. There is no one in the media, or otherwise who can really state confidently what has transpired. The reality is that there is a two month exclusivity period for the buyers to complete the due diligence and commit to closing the deal, and in return they are not going to get gazumped. However, you have to have a time limit on these periods or else buyers will take their own sweet time and it will drag on forever. Now the buyers have lost this privilege, so they need to move quickly to avoid being side swiped by another buyer (which there will be other buyers). I’m a business Broker here in Vancouver, and see this stuff all the time, and I guess am not surprised nor concerned by these events. I’m pretty sure a deal will happen, but it may not be as quickly as we all had hoped, or even with these buyers. As for responsibility for costs, contracts are typically written to ensure both sides are responsible for their own costs, no matter the outcome. The big question I have is, why the f%&k are we not investing some of the Snodgrass money on a new signing?!! TSS Only got half up front mate. Money received is pretty much exactly what has been spent when you take fees into consideration. For once, I genuinely believe Warnock has had every penny he’s received from players sold. Problem is, some of the ST money, league share etc… should be added to that if Bates wants to give Warnock a realistic chance of securing promotion. The squad wasn’t good enough, the only way to improve it is by spending cash. We’re operating under impossibly tight budgets because so much has been wasted on vanity projects and court cases. I don’t envy Warnock’s job, the task ahead is much more difficult than many of our fans seem to think under current circumstances. Colin But he can’t use the ST money can he because Mr Chairman sold off the rights to the ST money in order to pay off the loan for his East Stand vanity project. What a guy. Fit and proper arsehole. TSS Nope. And when that dwindles away as people continue to vote with their feet, his inability to repay that leaves him screwed and hopefully forces a sale. Colin If he couldn’t pay for the development, he shouldn’t have built it. But he did and we pay for it. I think a lot of the people who are berating those who are boycotting the ground, are forgetting that any money that they pay with their ST goes to someone else, not Leeds. Jeremy Blackwell This is a bullshit negotiating tactic of threatening to walk away at the last minute to get a few add-ons. Bates is just trying to prove that he doesn’t have to sell and is trying to put pressure on the buyer. The bastard doesn’t care about us or the club – he cares about his pocketbook. This is to be expected of the evil oxygen thief, but I hope we don’t get screwed out of the deal because of it. I can’t wait for this deal to be done and Bates to be someone else’s nightmare….still praying for a miracle…. Herbs What we know?! Bates owns leeds. He sells when its right for him. The club only released statements when news was broken by others. This therefore cannot be a Bates ploy to wind anyone up. Calls to boycott are bizarre and i surmise that you are not leeds fans. We have a stronger team than last year and we need 100% support being shown. Marching on together as the song goes! A takeover will happen sooner or later and we are a better purchase for any new owner if we demonstrate our passion where it matters – in support of the team TSS Nobody was calling for a boycott, were they? I’ve decided I can no longer justify financially supporting Ken Bates, but I haven’t suggested anyone else follow. The fact is, I can support Leeds United without going to Elland Road (I’ll still be at away games for a start) but I can’t go to Elland Road and not be supporting Ken Bates – financially that is. Knowing that my presence inside that stadium continues to fund his madness ruins the game for me, I haven’t enjoyed it at Elland Road for last couple of years. I’ve been a season ticket holder for the entirety of his reign. I’ve travelled everywhere from Istanbul to Oldham following this club and no one has the right to question my support or my loyalty. If anyone wants to get into a biggest fan contest, which, quite ridiculously seem to be judged on who attends the most games (giving no consideration to the circumstances of individual fans) then very few are going to beat me, so can we please give it a rest with these ridiculous arguments. The fact is, everyone wants what’s best for Leeds United. The best way to achieve that is what divides the support, but both sides want the same thing – a successful club. I don’t see that happening with Ken Bates in charge and the only way I see Bates leaving is if the finances forces his hand – as was the case at Chelski. Herbs The first poster with 7 agreeing! Plus two other commenters… The site encourages whingers. Its about time some constructive ways forward were explored. What constructively can be done to encourage a sale? Withdrawing your support from leeds united but going away is also hypocritical. You want other people – home fans and Bates – to put their hands in their pockets but you won’t. Jumblatts why should we pay bates for the privalige of watching a cheap, shallow squad that hasnt had any serious funds invested in it? would you pay a builder to build a house for you if he didnt lay the foundations or only put one wall up? no you wouldnt. Anyone looking to buy the club will not be put off by the lack of attendances, all they need do is look at games like the ones in cornwall. they realise its because of bates. we have put our hands in our pockets for 7 years for bates, and he has not returned the favour, so why should we continue? TSS You’ve lost me a little here, but I for one have put my hand into my pockets for 7 and half years to fund Bates. It gets squandered on vanity projects and court cases. I have no interest in this stuff, I, and every other fan, pay to watch football – Ken has lost sight of that completely. The point is, Bates has refused to use the funds our fans have given him to support the football team. Wage budgets are pathetically low and we spend nothing on transfers. I expect at least 70% of my ST money to go on funding the team (still less than every other team spend) – it’s not even half that, and that’s why we’re failing. My favourite Ken Bates quote is “if you want Premier League football, you have to pay Premier League prices” – this was presumably followed by “…so I can build a team on a League One budget” that wasn’t picked up by Yorkshire Radio. Bates is right that we have no say in how a football club is run, and because he won’t allow us to, he’s left me with only one option – to withdraw my funding. Bates can’t have it both ways. He can either give the paying customer what they want (like all other businesses strive to do) or the customers will choose to walk away. That’s how every single business works. If you can’t satisfy your customers, you’ll lose them. It’s rule one. Chareose as ive said before Bates has caught a lot of fans now……..many will want to to support Warnock and his brave new team…….. Hell i want to support them but I just cant when i know that until Bates goes we will be completely shackled. The longer Leeds remain outside the Premiership the harder it will become to recover…….as has been documented the financial Gap is increasing………Perhaps thats why Bates stalled, he wants money to compensate for the potential dividends of premiership football Jumblatts if that is the case then why doesnt he get his hand in his pocket and get us into the prem. those dividends wouldnt be potential then, they would be real, and increase the value of the club 100%. if thats what he is holding out for then he will never sell Inoff_thebar Ah, the old, let’s hold hands and sing we are the world ploy eh? After all it’s worked over the last few years Jumblatts Ken bates is that you? Inoff_thebar What a joke this…..this outcome was as inevitable as Snograss leaving. Bates has got more interest and season ticket sales out of this and will probably invent something else at the close of another poor season next time round. The only other inevitability is more bullshit from Lorimer & Gray accompanied by the usual phone ins by the LUTV pud knocker brigade…..as for LUST well I suspect they are so far down the trough they know as much as us …….sad thing is now I just don’t care enough anymore with Bates in charge…. Chareose First things first……. any fans that still choose to go to Elland Road and watch the team should leave the resentment and protesting alone whilst they are in the stadium and the teams playing. The new team and neil warnock dont deserve to be party to our anger and it would effect the morale of the team. I suggest to fans that they simply boycott Leeds United if they want to make a point otherwise support the team properly. As for all this….well i was one of those pessamistic types that predicted it and as i stated before its bloody horrible that all the worst scenarios i can come up with always come true while Mr Bates is in charge……….. Im in the boycott camp im afraid……..The people who say thatit wont hurt Bates are wrong because if he were to let the club fold he will get NO MONEY FOR IT. Hes made an investment and wants a return so the possability of liquidation will very much worry him !!! mrbigwheels Well said Chareose. This situation is going to need some careful management reference resentment and future protests/boycotts. Shouting ‘Bates Out’ inside the ground is not going to be the answer, imo. Νταν Κεϊν If the consortium no longer has esclucivity deal then whats stopping them going public with who they, what terms they are offering, etc. Would make sense to give the fans the full facts. For example if they taught a fan boycott could help push things forward then maybe they should ask for one. Chareose I guess the vague hope that they can still negotiate….I would guess that once that hope passes they will open their mouths……..that is assuming there really was a take over ofcourse djedjedje Reading the club’s statement it looks as if the Bates spin is going to be ‘they didn’t have enough money and we gave them more than long enough to find it’. Would you come out from anonymity if that sort of stink was knocking about? Tis all about the ego with these bastards, so don;t expect them to do us a favour anytime soon. TSS If anyone buys that excuse, they want shooting. Bates has said all along proof of funds must be provided before he opens the books and the statement said they were satisfied with the buyers financial position. From what I understand, the fee will have been agreed before due diligence began so we can work on the assumption that proof of funds meeting agreed valuation was provided. I suspect the funds were placed in escrow whilst due diligence was undertaken too. Ken has said numerous times he wants funds in a London bank account, which I’ve always interpreted as, he wants them held in escrow in the UK. Maybe I’m wrong, but I think that’s common practice too? djedjedje Oh I agree it is a terrible excuse – but you really can’t see the Middle East Consortium coming out and physically proving to the press that they have/had the money. So it really is in their interest to remain aloof and I am sure they don’t feel responsible to the fans of a club they have failed to buy. — I’d be interested to know what they needed to prove to have the funds. I can’t see them actually transferring c.£50,000,000 into an Escrow account and having it in limbo for over two months. The c.1% Escrow charge and currency fluctuations in that period of due diligence could easily see that amount fall by £3,000,000 – and who would be accountable for this loss? Besides, many football takeovers seem to heavily leveraged with only a nominal cash outlay involved ~ and Bates wouldn’t care less if he got his money from a bank or an individual, just as long as he got the amount he wanted. TimPM I’d be amazed if they felt the need to. Bates allowed them to do DD, that means they proved funds. He’s made his stance on that clear. djedjedje Maybe I’m just reading too much into: “The Club will continue to be receptive to approaches from potential new partners who can establish that they have the necessary credentials.” But let’s face it, there is no way that Bates is going to tell Leeds fans that the reason the deal fell through was because he couldn’t get enough cash out of them for his own ends. Time and again he has chosen instead to blame the other party and their failings (usually when they have minimal press access to defend themselves in public, ie. Mervyn Levy, Duncan Revie) and masked it up as if he was doing this in the best interest of the Leeds United fans, hence we had yesterday’s: “The first priority must be to ensure that the credibility of any future investor or ultimate owner is such, that the Leeds legacy and its future is in safe hands, back in the Premiership.” We know this is bollocks and that Bates is self-serving only, but it is hard to see what other spin he’ll put on it than to blame the anonymous Middle East Consortium should there not be a swift move from another bidder (which I seriously doubt exists, and at least would take another couple of months). TSS Confidentiality agreement will extend beyond exclusivity period so I don’t think anything has changed in that respect. Until an outcome has been reached either way, I doubt you’ll hear much. It’s unprofessional too and gives Bates the perfect excuse to blame interested party for everything. Ron Galea I think the sale of Snodgrass was inevitable as all players want to play at the top and he had a chance when he’s fit and ready. The biggest clue something was awry was when Warnock made the comments about selling to fund new players…….this morning when Rogers and Pugh went in the window it was simply confirmation the deal was iced. Bates can now wait and see if Warnock can drag a skeleton squad into the top half by the winter window and see if a new buyer steps up. I actually suspect some of our signings were sold the takeover story when they signed on. Bates is a great strategist, unfortunately a very tight one. Old Goat “from potential new partners” suggests Bates plans to stay in some way but would like to stay while playing with somebody else’s money. If he was looking for somebody to take over completely they surely wouldn’t phrase it like this. mrbigwheels At last… Herbs. If only everyone else would grasp the concept. Chelsea, Chelsea, Chelsea… all over again. Leopards really do not change their spots!. Grumpy The official club statement says ‘….ensure credibility of any future investors or ultimate owner…’. I think that covers both eventualities. Colin How come the Diouf rumour has resurfaced? Not a chance he’ll be coming anyway. We can’t afford his wages. Anyway I wouldn’t ever welcome that loon at Leeds. Tim Campbell Breaking latest!!! Kaiser Chiefs are playing a gig in front of Elland Road on Saturday. They say the first song is dedicated to the ‘special’ one – ‘I PREDICT A RIOT’!!! Sunnyleeds I’m sorry to say but the only way that this saga could come to an end is to stop financing KB. A club with smaller crowds and a poor turnover would sell for less. If the crowds continue to dwindle, year in year out, KB will be forced to sell. So I agree with those who have concluded that the only thing left for real Leeds supporters is to stop putting a penny in the club until new owners come in. trueyorxman Only 46 comments on a day like today, tells you just how pissed off evryone is! Not as much as Buck Rogers tho’ the poor kid. Just sums up how low this club has got treating soeone like that. Bates = Cancer (fingers X’d) Colin You could write a book about the Bates reign at Leeds. Infact, I think I might write one – it’s a Horror story. leedslunatic Bates would probably take you to court, sue you for copyright infringement, sue you for tens of millions….lose…. sell our captain/groundskeeper, put us into administration…. blame you and said captain for wanting too much money… and still not sell up!!! batesout bates is hitler reincarnated Colin I’d just like to say how sorry I feel for The Robbie Rogers. He got injured early on and now he’s ready to fight for Leeds and he’s been well and truly kicked in the balls. Never even given a chance. I guess Warnock doesn’t like him, but I do. I bet if he got the chance he’d run non-stop for Leeds. He strikes me as a grafter. He’s certainly brave to have made the jump from USA to West Yorkshire. This was his chance to shine and the powers that be have taken that chance off him and told him to go. Piss poor man management – he’s not a piece of meat, he’s one of our team and deserves more respect. Matthew Well said. I wish Robbie Rogers the absolute worst of luck in finding a new club so he stays with us as he is contractually obligated to do unless sold on. I hope Warnock has no luck selling him on, so he can stay and fight for a place in the squad and get the gametime he deserves. Come on Robbie, one more season at Leeds. Stay and prove that old fucker Bates wrong and become an asset worth keeping. Colin Cheers Matthew. It’s nonsense trying to sell him on anyway. Who’s going to take a punt on a player they haven’t seen? He won’t be on big wages and he won’t command a big transfer value – certainly not enough for Warnock to improve the team. Shrewsbury would have been an ideal opportunity to see what he can do. I presume he won’t play? How much game time did we (including Warnock) give lost cause Billy Paynter? At least give him a chance to prove himself. If he’s really bad, then okay, make a decision then, but at least give him time on the pitch. He’s good enough to get a work permit to play over here (that’s the first test of quality) and he’s received commendations from Jurgen Klinsmann. Surely that’s enough to give him a chance against Shrewsbury? For me, this is a Warnock error. djedjedje Yeah, but Colin, Klinsmann and Warnock ~ leagues apart. Robbie should take the slight from Warnock as a complement. leedslunatic I never thought I’d agree with a player sitting tight on his contract collecting wages… but that’s exactly what I hope he does. We offered the guy a contract, took him half way across the world, and then Bates takes a shit on him, all the way from Monaco. Word’s escape me… Matthew Indeed, well said. I just want this transfer window to close personally. I’ll take a threadbare squad with decent coaching over losing anymore quality players. Even if it means putting up with the deadwood(Rachub, Paynt, Conn). It just concerns me that Bates will pull a fast one with Ross Mc. Damn you transfer window, close already. We’l take our chances, hope we get a good amount of points, someone buys the club before Christmas and invests heavily to get us up. All we can hope for. Iring08 Personally I was concerned from the outset when I heard that the quixotic Klinsman recommended him. And no-one could accuse me of being a Warnock groupie. Stil it would have been good to see what the boy can do. TimPM If we weren’t convinced by him I’d back loaning him out. But that’s not the point of what Warnock seems to be doing. He’s been fucked by the takeover and now he’s trying to build a team on next to nothing… Literally, he’s got a mid-table budget to get Leeds promoted, this is his job under Bates. Feel very sorry for Robbie but at the same time, he’s one of the few youngish players who might command a fee that isn’t already a part of Warnock’s first 11-14. I reckon we will get a fee because he’s thought of well in the U.S. setup and in MLS. djedjedje That fee will be nominal though. He remains a complete unknown in the English league (unlike Nunez, who I am surprised hasn’t found more suitors) and as you say, I’m sure teams would prefer to take him on loan instead. Are we really going to find a good quality striker/winger replacement for the £3-500,000 we’d get for him? Surely Portsmouth are clean out of players needing picking up on the cheap by now. I could understand if Roger’s wages are high – as I bet Pugh’s are – but I’d be surprised if they are. Common sense would dictate loaning out Rogers to say Barnsley and getting him in the shop window for a sale come January. Alternatively Warnock or our new manager might just like what they see. All this desperate short-term gasping and grasping for a complete new XI is not building foundations, only showing up that our current set-up is built on sand. If we can’t afford another halfway man like Varney then we should call it a day with what we’ve got (which Warnock has done well to elasterplast together) and try and get the most out of Rogers/Nunez and, more hopefully, the kids. I have as much faith in them – ie. more hope than reason – in those players becoming ‘icing on the cake’ than anymore cheapies and frees being picked up from the castoffs of other clubs happy with only a week to go before the league begins. Christ, I know Warnock’s got a hell of a cheshire cat grin on him but we aren’t fixed-up or anywhere near close! robinhoodwhite can anyone give an example of another football club that has been taken over that over a period of two months no one had any concrete evidence as to who was buying that club i know the media have stated middle east money ect but where are they getting there sorces from surely if they can state things like this then someone knows who they are and who is it thats told them ken bates has moved the goal post (think what you want of him but he is an easy scape goat people expect this from him) now i maybe be wrong but it makes sense to me that leeds utd accounts must be held somewhere that a least a few people know about and accounting firm or legal firm and so i assume during this due dilligence thing people must have been coming and going from there who represents the buyer and i think it resonable to assume that someone must have been to elland road and thorpe arch to see what it is that there buying and yet no one has anything concrete to say that any of this has actually taken place i hope im wrong but its my belief that most of this has been fabricated to raise lufc profile maybe not so much for season ticket sales but i think that leeds has become a drain on ken bates resorces when you read most articals on leeds these day it all points to penny pinching i think the leeds machine is eating money and that it has hidden debt that ken is struggling to service without him putting his personal money into which im quite sure that he is loathed to do and that hes struggling to off load leeds because he carnt sell it without making a big loss hes got more money in it than its acually worth Colin “can anyone give an example of another football club that has been taken over that over a period of two months no one had any concrete evidence as to who was buying that club” Yes. Nottingham Forest when Fawaz Al-Hawasi took them over in July. TSS Most takeovers fall into that category. Only real difference at Leeds is that we found out it was all going on very early on in process, which is rare. Colin Here’s another example, Watford. They were going under. New owners came in and paid their £1.8m HMRC tax bill. Definitely done in 2 months. Colin Watford friend of mine put a bet on Watford to get promoted each way at 50/1 – it pays out for finishing 1st, 2nd or 3rd. Cute move. They’ve got some quality players from Udinese & Grenada. Keep an eye out for them. Colin They played Spurs in a testimonial recently. It was a dull game, but both teams were passing it around very well. We played Burton Albion. Poorly. I say keep an eye out for Watford. They might surprise everyone. They’ve got backing from the Pozzi family. They didn’t buy them to fail. Gianfranco Zola isn’t there to make up the numbers. He’s there to get them promoted. Colin ” i think that leeds has become a drain on ken bates resorces” When has Ken spent any of his resources on LUFC? Go on tell me. leedsusa Yeah, time to get on the bandwagon.. I will be at no Leeds games this season..Fk off Ken leedslunatic Just read an article earlier… Scientists reckon that due to advancements in genetic studies/gene therapy, the first people to live to 150 years, have already been born…. What are the odds that prick Bates is one of them….