More Takeover Rumours TimPM July 27, 2012 Leeds United 96 Comments In the last 24 hours a few unusual culprits have assured me the takeover is reaching its final stages. Don’t shoot the messenger, we all know the number of rubbish rumours pedalled over the last couple of months, but interestingly these rumours from normally reliable people have coincided with the BBC’s Adam Pope’s latest conversation with the Bahrain Information Affairs Authority. According to the BIAA: Re #lufc takeover from @IAA_Bahrain "Shaikh Abdulrahman bin Mubarak Al-Khalifa was merely the advisor for the interested party." continued — Adam Pope (@APOPEY) July 27, 2012 re #lufc takeover continued "The bidder is an off shore bank in Bahrain who has gathered a group of investors from the region." continued — Adam Pope (@APOPEY) July 27, 2012 re #lufc takeover "They are interested in developing the property associated with the club." continued — Adam Pope (@APOPEY) July 27, 2012 re #lufc takeover "The bank wants to remain anonymous at the moment until the due diligence period is over." finished — Adam Pope (@APOPEY) July 27, 2012 The best rumours had it that Sheikh Abdulrahman bin Mubarak al-Khalifa, a Leeds fan who tried to engineer a bid for debt-ridden Leeds in 2003, was the head of a takeover funded by an international consortium. The latest news will take individual concerns over his suitability out of the equation. The BIAA, an official government department, have no apparent reason to lie or attention-seek. But YEP’s Phil Hay tweeted: Re the IAA Bahrain quotes, the YEP received the statement 2 wks ago but were told by someone close to the deal that it was wholly inaccurate — Phil Hay (@PhilHayYEP) July 27, 2012 If the news is true, the fact the group would want to develop land surrounding Elland Road would point strongly towards the club being reunited with its stadium, which is available for repurchase for around £13m. anon I’ve had a source (which has proven to be correct on some aspects of the takeover so I’m quite confident that it’s valid) which says the take over is nothing to do with Bahrain at all. The buyers are from Saudi Arabia and the take over definitiely includes buying Elland Road and Thorpe Arch. But I’m just as fed up with rumours as the rest of us! Tyler75 If this is the case – and the people I know in Bahrain who work in the finance sector seem to think this is a highly likely scenario (Saudi and Indian money apparently) – not only backs up what the BIAA said about no Al Khalifa family money being involved but also explains why the takeover will have been such a drawn out affair. Pity the poor sod who has to try and unravel the byzantine web of ‘ownerships’ created by Bates ! Sunnyleeds Come on Leeds Ron If I am honest, the way Warnock is speaking and dealing, I don’t care if a nasty cleric is behind the takeover. Regardless, this is a different Leeds to the one I have followed in frustration every summer or transfer window. If anyone wants to avoid the wrath or heat of the FA, surely it is Ken when exiting his dubious dealings with Leeds. Have faith comrades. Good things are happening on the pitch Singy So now you’d prefer a nasty cleric to Bates? Really? Is this how far we’ve gone with the bates hating? go and have a think about it will you and stop being a sheep. I agree that people should have faith, particularly in Warnocks signings whether or not we suddenly have an injection of cash from wherever in the world it may eventually come from. He is building a team of strong committed players, we were weak as hell last year in centre midfield (and defence) and that includes when Howson was there. We were far too lightweight with the Claytons of this world and hopefully the signings he is making will bring strength and energy and some goals which were sadly lacking. There are so many pessimistic fans that just can’t see any optimism from under the Bates cloud they seem to revel in living under. We are signing players, we are resigning players, yes we have lost Snoddy but for Christ sake enough of the morons at Elland Road were slagging him off last year for being wasteful and greedy. don’t tell me you weren’t because I fell out with some of you. Get over bates, get over Snoddy and start being f ing positive and we might just get somewhere. Nasty cleric.. F off…. Paddy Kenny is bad enough…. Ron Haha. I didn’t think my post was negative in the slightest. My point is that it doesn’t actually matter who buys us and as long as the FA approve, we may never have much to do with them anyway. I live in Monaco and know where Ken is every morning, but does that mean I go and have a drink with him? No. Likewise, if a Middle-Eastern consortium or offshore banking syndicate buy us, do you think they’ll be reading this post on the internet? My point was that we are signing players and being active, unlike previous windows. Your rant actually agreed with me. Iriving08 Good post – and this from someone who has recently been a bit negative on Warnock’s signings. Mind, I am writing this still feeling warmed by Danny Boyle’s affectionate rummage through our cultural storehouse. A propos Snoddy-bashing, you’re right – I recollect having to deal with a very aggreesive blok in the Revie Stand loo whonwas ranitng and raving about him beinga lzy sod ! We agree too on their being worse owners than Bates. craig foxton No mention of restoring a once great club to it’s former glory could it be frying pan into the fire , we shall see! TimPM Wouldn’t really make sense to develop the Elland Road area without a successful footy club though, would it? It wouldn’t do much for their prestige to have us languishing in the second league, either! Johnny Reb. I’m getting pretty sick of the whole business and the quality of Warnock’s buys leave a lot to be desired. I fully expect another tumultuous few seasons ahead – I fear the worse. Matthew Let me guess, you’ve been listening to the whiners on twitter? Warnocks buys have been better than what we have(Okay not better than Snod, Ross, Luci, White) but enough so that we stand a genuine chance of hitting the play offs at most. Automatic promotion I cant say, I think perhaps. Either way, expecting us to either be looking at the playoffs for sure, or auto promotion. TimPM I agree with you Matthew, but people with a different viewpoint to you don’t always need to be degraded. Every comment you make nowadays has to be having a go at people. Disagree by all means, debate is what the comments is for, but reel it in a bit buddy. Matthew Sorry, didn’t realise there was an age restriction on this website, my use of language is colourful, but not any worse than what you’d hear at a footy match. I’ll try to refrain from commenting on idiotic comments, but I haven’t had a go at anyone, at least I don’t think so. Irning08 Mathew. This is not a football match, but a forum for debate and as such can only work if certain rules are followed – one of which is good manners. Dr Zen I don’t know in what universe half of Portsmouth’s below-average team and an untried Jamaican are sure promotion candidates but I do know I’m not living in it. I mean, seriously, we are relying on Warnock’s ability to turn muck into brass. Claiming he’s been signing top-class buys is just laughable. And better than Vayrynen and Brown is not a high bar. Dazzler I’m thinking right we have signed nearly half the Portsmouth team that got relegated. But on looking further into these players, they are looking at been quite good. Looking forward to Austin and think Kenny is a excellant signing. So stop been negative and look forward to a team who is going to compete and want to win. Sniffer Err just for the record that team of below average players took 4 points from our 2 games last season. Their finishing position was more to do with off pitch problems than on pitch ones much as ours were 7 yrs ago. And I remember a certain Tony Yeboah coming in with a chorus of WHO? and we didn’t regret his purchase I believe Wilko signed him off of a video too! Alf Super Leeds!!! Alf Another good article which brings together information which i cant be bothered to go and find myself. Keep up the good work Scratching Shed. Dje Call me cynical but two fields with the most untrustworthy of intentions are property developers and bankers. Throw in ‘off shore’ and mix with a bit of ‘anonymity’ and ‘unaccountability’ and what a fine sounding proposition this is. For f***’s sake. TimPM Middle East brings with it prestige. No chance in hell they’d just want a bit of money from property developing if they had the chance to own a successful sports team. Especially with Qatar World cup a decade away? Dje Except this isn’t a Middle East investment, it is a banking one (apparently). Don;t get me wrong, I’d have faith in the Qatar investment machine. They’d need Leeds to succeed on the field to promote Qatar. That’s a marriage. An offshore bank has absolutely no desire to sell its name, it only does so through the money it makes. The only way we make money is by selling players and offering land to develop. We’ve completely run down the first so maybe its the second. Let’s face it, throwing moey at a club never guarantee’s promotion and the richest of the Premiership, so I find it hard to believe that an offshore bank would be so reckless to piss away their creditors cash in living a dream of Premiership riches. Roulette would at least be a less drawn out gamble for them. TimPM Possibly. I still feel if you’re important enough to put in millions of pounds into an investment and you’re middle eastern, you have the prestige thing. But then their culture’s pretty alien. Dje You’d hope at least! It just makes me suspicious why they remain intent to hide behind anonymity. If they have been following the process form a local Leeds fans’ point of view, to come out and declare who you are and what your ‘ambitions’ are for Leeds would instantly put more pressure on Bates to sell and sell quicker. As the club has already acknowledged that these people have ‘the funds’ in place, and therefore are not open to the usual Batesism of ‘time wasters’ I can’t see what the potential takeover investors have to lose from ‘coming out’. As you might have noticed, it is the anonymity and the needless not knowing that annoys the hell out of me. It belittles us and frustrates us as fans, and frankly we deserve better than any of these shysters who currently own or want to own our club. Just saying. TimPM I feel exactly the same mate. Seems like most do… Irving08 Prestige only matters if the investment is coming from an entity linked directly to the state, as in the Qatari/Man City case. And there it is perfectly understandable in as much they are planning on a global scale for when the oil runs out. In a way, their cultural values of respect for tradition and history should chime in with those which some of us wish to see honoured in our own club. There I have said something postive about Middle Eastern ownership ! HunsletWhites I have a sauce which is related to a takeaway that is nothing to do with Bahrain at all but the Chinese supermarket at the back of Vicar Lane and they assured me, even though they couldn’t understand a word I was saying, that their best customer is an elderly bearded Cockney wide-boy who is buying all their fortune cookies in exchange for Bernard Matthews’ famous Norfolk fowl. The spiv in question is very popular at the moment with a TV cook and bottle washer called Delia who recommends giving the smaller variety, known as a Howson, 45 minutes before basting, while their latest, larger and slower model needs the full 90 minutes. Moral of the story is that many years ago a young Scotsman called Bremner didn’t leave Leeds but stayed to become a legend of the greatest team in Europe, while another young Scotsman did leave to become a turkey who will always be remembered for kissing the Leeds badge that in the end meant nothing to him. A decision he will see as very foolhardy in not many years to come. Allan Great post…….made me laugh but it was well put and the last line said it all. Government Thug It’s just Ken in sunglasses and a tea-towel. Don’t fall for it! Colin Property developers are not good news for Leeds United. If you want to buy LUFC and make it super profitable and climb to the top of the PL and use some of the profits to build the property then fine. But if off-shore investors have the money to buy the club from Bates and spend their own money on property development, and the only thing they are interested in is property development, then it’s not in their interest to throw cash at improving the fortunes of LUFC. I still can’t get my head around why the ER site in a poor suburb of Leeds just off the M621 is so appealing to property developers? I can sort of understand a casino (at a push) or an ice rink perhaps. But why anyone would want to build a hotel complex or housing on that site baffles me. If you’re coming to Leeds and you want to stay in a hotel, you’re going to stay in the very nice and vibrant Leeds City Centre. You’re not going to choose to stay in Beeston. Dje Spot on, Colin. Allan I agree wholeheartedly with you Colin. I am from the Cardinals many years ago….but now I am in the Philippines. Andy Craven If this takeover were imminent would a transfer embargo not be in place? Why would potential investors sit back and watch the best player and captain be sold off, especially when the transfer will no doubt be lining KB’s pockets in some way and not their own? Cod Almighty because snoddy wanted out, what were they gonna do? chain him up. Stop being such a sheep and following the “bates out” partyline, bates will not see a penny of this, its leeds uniteds money and more than likely will be given to colin by the new owners Old whitey How about a throw back, scrap the ground and build a new 60,000 seat stadium just off the A1 / M62 link and build a damn great shopping centre where ER used to be; that would definitely fit in with a bank ideal scenario of maximising profit out of adversity; god knows how much they’d get for various naming rights as well. can’t seem them just re-building west stand and adding casino etc as little profit there and gambling is not really acceptable in the Koran i believe. As long as they keep a bit back for decent players, and a lot for even better ones after promotion; although having said that the only way to make a small fortune out of a football club is to start off with a large one. Hey Ho. MOT Anonimouse Sheik Kenneth Bates fronting a tax dodging offshore banking system.. a whole world of nastiness.. anything goes wrong.. LUFC vanishes fringo Ken Bates spent how many years already pretending not to own the club? Dje Here’s a thought for those worried about the rapidly rising average age of our squad … Dean Windas (43) and Robbie Savage (37) are offering their (as good as free) playing services to Ally McCoist’s Rangers and their Scottish Third Division plight. wrg11 Maybe it’s the casino that they are interested in developing.Hasn’t the sheik got gambling debts.He might fancy his chances of winning his money back. All White Did the prospective new owners really try to persuade Snodgrass to stay like rumours have suggested? If so is this takeover really going to be as good as we all hope? Surely the new owners would’ve tried to sell their new vision for the club. And if Snodgrass still jumped ship after hearing this exciting news what does that say either about him or any future investment? TimPM Judging by his comments to the East Anglian press I’d guess he simply saw a Premiership club with his mates that he thinks will stay up. I think it would’ve taken something massive for him to stay. His loss, hope he enjoys that backwater and his relegation. Matthew Fully agree Tim, well said. Pete_Dog Hate to say this but I have to agree with Colin and Dje here. As soon as I saw the words “They are interested in developing the property associated with the club” my heart sank. I lived in North Wales for a while and 2 local clubs were taken over by people with the same intentions a few years back – Wrexham and Chester. Didn’t turn out well for either of them… Even worse if it’s an offshore bank behind this – they’ll be looking for a stable (and maybe quick) return for their investors – the best way you’re going to get that is property, not football (to paraphrase a joke I heard once: What’s the best way to become a millionaire? Start off as a billionaire and buy a football club!”). This smells of them just continuing Ken’s policy of spending heavily on the facilities and light on the squad. I have a horrible feeling we’re going to end up with an expensive building site / residential / shopping centre just off the M621, with the club kicked out to play god knows where (would Farsley Celtic agree to a ground share??). That said, something about this doesn’t seem quite right. As Colin said, Beeston – really? Maybe that’s what’s holding up the due diligence – they’ve suddenly realised that the ground isn’t actually slap bang in the city centre… Sorry for being a doommonger and I really hope I’m wrong. The fact that it’s nearly 4pm and I’m still hungover may have something to do with my mood… CRAIG LDS I used to live just up the road from the ground “holbeck” and when I sold my house my then neighbor said why you selling the council and government are going to put millions £ into the area making holbeck village New shops and properties it will be great since then they had knocked down about 80 properties then the recession hit and it went on hold, so maybe the investors know that in a few yrs property prices and land prices will gothrough the roof so they are getting in now with easy commute to city and motorway to everywhere linked maybe they are onto something, the area doesn’t look much now but neither did the Olympic village 5 yrs ago. I just hope some of there money goes onto making our dreams come true on the pitch that’s all we want and they can do what they want around the ground. M O T Irving08 You are right – it wil take a little longer than initially envisaged, but Holbeck will be transformed over the next decade or so. The Arena, had it been located there – and in my view it was the best location – would have been an accelerator; but a big project to replace it is in the pipeline. It would be commercially foolish even to think about building a new stadium elsewhere, quite apart from historical objections. Elland Rod has a sense of place, which no new stadium built in the sticks will ever attain. Pete_Dog Just had a thought – maybe Ken’s struck oil under Elland Road? All the work on the exec boxes could have been a cover for the drilling. That’d explain it! Scott Mackenzie If beeston is such a shitty area its perfect for property developers as the land will be cheap. fringo Great spot for a shopping centre. Colin One big positive of where we are at the moment is that the club has no debt. However, I think we have (and always have had) cash-flow issues. I think the cash from the sales of Delph, Schmeichel, Gradel, Howson and now Snodgrass, was ploughed back into the club to keep it’s cash flow alive. Heck, even mean fisted bastard Bates put £1m into the club last year to keep the cash flow going. Don’t worry though, he’s got the £1m back now. Right, now is the big question – what is cash flow? Good cash flow means that the club can operate and pay for itself. We struggle at that. That sounds bad, but think of Wigan, Bolton, Everton – they have negative cash flow and it means that their oweners have to continually pump their own money in just to keep the club running. They (financially) are not in good shape. One way to improve LUFC’s cash flow is to buy back TA & ER. That’s costing us approx. £2m a year in cash via rent payments. Forget the bullshit, we all know Bates owns those. So what are the new owners buying? LUFC or LUFC + ER & TA? Buying ER & TA will probably cost around £20m, but then the cash flow situation is vastly improved. If an investor buys the lot, that sounds great, but is it? If you own the lot, you can do a Glazer/Man Utd job and essentially mortgage the club, make money and the club has to pay the interest payments. It works for Man United, but it went horribly wrong at Liverpool. If Bates kept hold of ER & TA, then the new owners couldn’t do a Glazer, because they don’t have the assets (ER & TA) and that’s where the value is. The only assets in LUFC are Warnock, Redders and the current squad. Not much value there. If a new owner takes ownership of the lot, then they can do a Glaxer, mortgage LUFC and use the money to build build build. If the new owner is committed to LUFC and supports the club then fine, but if they are not, then we could find ourselves with an idiot owner, like Portmouth did and we all know what’s happened to them. mrbigwheels Welcome to Ellandland… Fun, excitement, adventure. Sleepover, dine, gamble, shop and get pissed as you experience the hottest highlife in one of Yorkshires most sleak and vibrant atmospheres… Football available as and when car park spaces allow. Book now for a head reeling experience and get a free voucher for the Batesupandatem Centre. OH COME ON… IT’S FRIDAY….. Terry Thursday, 26 July 2012 10:33 AM A group of investors, led by a member of the Bahraini royal family, is likely to conclude its takeover of English football club Leeds United within the next two weeks, according to a report in the UK. Sheikh Abdulrahman bin Mubarak Al-Khalifa, the man who led a failed takeover of the side in 2003, is reportedly part of a consortium close to completing a deal for the Championship side. “The club has been talks with a group of investors led by the Bahrani royal Sheikh Abdulrahman bin Mubarak Al-Khalifa… [and] are now, as we understand it, on the brink of a takeover which should be completed in the next fortnight,” talkSPORT, the UK’s biggest national commercial sports radio station, said in a report this week. Sheikh Abdulrahman’s representatives are believed to be carrying out due diligence on the club’s finances and the asking price has been estimated at around GBP£50m (US$77.6m), the report added This is the truth… Colin Terry, if it’s been reported on talkSPORT then it must be the truth. Lee B I read it on the internet and on Wikipedia, so it MUST be true! It was also confirmed by the Sun and the more-respected Fortean Times, so get down to your local bookies and put your house on it… Colin And if you listen to the recent words from LUST, they’re getting more and more desperate and fidgety. Why? Because they wanted to represent the fans and have a voice on the Board of the new structure. Potentially, under the new regime, there would be no Lorimer or Harvey or Bates, who had least had occasional dialogue with LUST, even if it was only to tell them to F’ Off. I think LUST are getting fidgety because they (and the fans) won’t have an input or visibility of what is happening at the club. And then it’s down to trusting the new owners to do the right thing because they won’t know what is happening behind closed doors. Matthew To be fair, no fan group should have a position of power at any club. If anything the club/owners should listen to what concerns the fans the most, be it ticket prices, losing players, and wanting some quality in the squad and try and fix things but no more than that. For example, if somoene buys us, hears fans want lower prices. Looks at the books and adjusts them the best as possible. That would be a result. If fans want more quality in the squad, they give the manager some money and he buys the players. That would be a result. Demanding a position of power at the club = unreasonable. Sorry but I dont believe LUST should have any power at Leeds United, the club just needs to listen to the fans more, that way there would be less disgruntled fans and more happy fans. TimPM Is a place on the board a position of power? It doesn’t mean you’d have control over anything, just that you’re consulted about everything. It shows a mark of respect more than anything in my eyes… after all, what does Peter Lorimer actually do? fringo Do people still believe Ken Bates is selling the club to new owners? Henryv We have no idea what is going on, but LUST do. They know who the buyers are. They are supposed to have contacted them?? How could they contact, and carry on a confidential dialogue, with an anonymous bank, and Indian business men? They would lose all the gains they have made with the fans, if we end up with a dud. Also NW knows who they are and has spoken to them. Snodgrass made his decision to leave at the end of last season. He felt he had to grasp his chance, so good luck to him. We can do better, and we must trust NW. I’d rather Snodgrass leave than NW. Dje I disagree, HenryV. With Snodgrass gone I see less reason for Warnock to stay now. Considering Warnock said today that Varney will replace Snodgrass at the top of the diamond as he is looking for strikers instead, that leaves us with wide-men of Rogers (unproven) and White (unconvincing). That spells out one thing to me: long-ball. No thanks. It is bad enough having dismantled a team that half of which (ie. attack) was good enough for promotion, and replacing it with a team good enough not to get relegated, but to play dire football as well will be too much. 2012-13 is a write-off, so we need to be planning ahead for where we are going in the next 2-4 seasons. For which, we might as well get in a manager who will at least commit to that timeframe. Matthew I see enough of a reason for Warnock to stay, he has money to speand, and has built a reasonably good squad. The players he has brought in are enough to do the job in this division and should he get more, great. Snodgrass didn’t want to play for the club anymore, the club offered him a fantastic contract, making him the highest paid player at the club and the highest paid player in many years by a fair margin. Can’t blame the club there. Warnock will stay, the defense is better than last season by a fair margin, the midfield is taking shape, the attacking options need work but Warnock will buy. A new striker, and a couple midfield players and we’l finish in the top 10 this season, as said above. He hasn’t signed anyone who I would consider to be bad, having seen them play against us anyway. 2012/2013 is most definately not a write off. Far from it, it may be a write off for gloomy pricks who have to find fault with everything but from a footballing perspective, this season is far from over, hell it hasnt even began. This squad will finish higher than last season. Dje ‘Gloomy prick’ – ha! love it. I’ll take that over a myopic regurgitator of the clubs official banalities, Peter. I’ve no doubt ‘Warnock will stay’ as what has he to lose in trying this season? It is the lads he’s signing – not bad on there own right, true – who’ll be here for another couple of seasons after he’s long gone, and aging, which worries me as the headsore for our next management team [just as Warnock’s headache is Grayson’s Paynter, Connolly, Rachubka, O’Brien…]. If Warnock wants to commit to Leeds United for another two season then absolutely fine – it aint personal; it won’t be pretty, but it could well take us up. But until then why is so much power being given to a man on a short term contract who wont be accountable for these actions? Sorry, I’m not interested in ‘higher’ or ‘better than last season’, or ‘top ten’ finish. Top two or winning the playoffs has to be the minimum for a man entirely building our squad from scratch but who is here for only another 8 months. Besides, where is your ambition!? And yes I do blame the club re: Snodgrass. We didn’t go the distance. If Warnock really had faith in his ability to take us up this season then why wasn’t he prepared to keep Snodgrass for the season and run the risk of him leaving for a free in the summer? And don’t give me all that ‘he didn’t want to play for the club anymore’ bullshit. I’ll accept that from Warnock as it is face-saving. But we have Peter Lorimer for that regurgitation of the official club line; it’s just tedious. Ask yourself, if we keep selling these better players of ours on the quick and cheap always because apparently they want to try their luck in higher divisions – why is it none of them use the standard route for a player to force the issue – the transfer request? Instead these players leave because WE accept the transfer offer. Matthew *myopic regurgitator What? You’re happy to post unfounded negativity lately but dislike it when people don’t agree with you and attach labels like the one above. I refered to you as a gloomy prick because you are quite frankly acting like one. Granted, I think more people have agreed with my posts than yours in the past 24 hours alone, I think that says something. By all means, feel free to whine and bitch about how doomed we are, and how our season is a writeoff. You are free to do so, some of us have a more realistic point of view and are living in reality. Regarding Snodgrass, you clearly have your head shoved so far up your own ass you are unable to see daylight. And out of respect for what Tim has said, I’ll refrain from commenting to you, as I told him I won’t bother responding to idiotic posts anymore. Not keen on ken Pep at barca was always on a one year deal …. Look what he did …. Obviously im not saying NW is PG, but why cant he do a job on a short term deal then sign a rolling 1 year extenion if it suits both parties … As fo RS, i never bought into his “love this club, but they cant atch my ambition” … What he ment was “love this club, but im only in it for the money and a mid to bottom half premiership team pays more, there trophy cabinet may be empty but my pocket and garage wont be” …. Lets be right, loyal players, players like Gary Kelly (400+ games for our club) dont exist anymore … Guns for high to the highest bidder and the tv money means if your in the prem you can cherry pick from the championship cos the players hold the clubs to ransom by turning down a new offer knowing the money saved on a transfer fee can bust there pay packet …. And dont be suprised to see him kiss his new badge next year, if he can score in the top league that is, . You never know, we might get him back on loan at christmas, the prem has been littered with leeds lads that cant cut the top league, Fab Delph, danny rose, lennon, killgallon, beckford, etc etc .. A Big fish in a little pond always stands out and he may prove me wrong in the big pond, only time will tell Dje Dear me, it is not that I dislike it when people disagree with me, that I enjoy. It is called opening up a discussion and looking forward to the intricacies of the argument. Sadly you increasingly offer little more than complete conjecture (“I think he’s a good player” – fine, on what basis are we going to try and objectify that?). And to justify my point, you are myopic because you singularly fail to discuss where the club is heading beyond this season. That isn’t negative, you could just as well try to defend the point that Andy Gray will be a Premiership leading goalscorer by 2014, and possibly getting a late Scotland call-up too. ‘Everything will be OK’ according to you. It might be, but I’m damned to find little reasoning in what you are saying to reassure me – hence I’ve challenged you on it. Why you would take it so personally or try and divide Leeds fans into ‘gloomy pricks’ – and presuming the dichotomy – ‘merry cunts’, just beats me. Second, you are a regurgitator of the club’s banalities: “I see enough of a reason for Warnock to stay, he has money to speand, and has built a reasonably good squad. The players he has brought in are enough to do the job in this division and should he get more, great. Snodgrass didn’t want to play for the club anymore, the club offered him a fantastic contract, making him the highest paid player at the club and the highest paid player in many years by a fair margin. Can’t blame the club there.” That is almost word for word what I read Warnock and Lorimer saying earlier today. At least those two get paid to say it. I’m more than open and looking forward to having to change my mind and do so regularly from what I read on this site. If that is negativity then I’m not sure what point there is in websites like this, is everything was so affirming, perhaps it would turn into the vox-pox of popular approval you depressingly seem to desire. But yeah, I look forward to replying to your posts because I can’t see why I’d want to make anything out of nothing. Dje @Not keen on ken Fair enough regarding Guardiola at Barcelona – and I’m not a connoisseur of La Liga – but I’d be surprised if he came-in in his first year and dismantled their squad back to only holding on to their equivalent of 1st team regulars White, Lees and Becchio and recruited in the space of a fortnight the best part of three quarters of the first team! At which point, I’m wondering if the Barca board (or is it their fans voting, I forget?) might want him to commit to a longer duration to see the job done. Re: Snodgrass. I’ll be surprised if he is on more money there than what we allegedly offered him (c.£15,000 a week). I read somewhere recently that their pay structure didn’t go above that (which is quite shocking). Besides, if he’d seen out his contract and left on a free then that is where the big wages come in for a Premiership player as they save on the transfer fees. I don’t doubt the Kelly analogy but as you say, changing times. I imagine him struggling to get into the Scotland team was a big big factor (remember, Levein completely overlooked McCormack too, and on grounds that can mostly be read that he only plays in the Championship – because he had the lead Scottish striker’s goal ratio for most of last season). I am not so sure about him or Norwich being flops this season. They surprised last season and have kept most of their players. Lambert left, but Houghton is a decent manager. As for Snodgrass, I think he is a wily player and will adapt his game accordingly. But I can see exactly why Leeds fans would love them and him to flop. Irving08 Mathew: If you continue to write in this vein, you will find that people simply ignore your posts. TimPM Varney plays on the wing. Possibly we’re misunderstanding what Warnock meant? Dje I’m blaming Phil Hay for his indeterminate phrasing. http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/latest-whites-news/leeds-united-i-ve-already-signed-rob-s-replacement-1-4779251 You should put in for his job, Tim! TimPM Ha! Phil Hay does a great job for YEP from what I can see, they’re lucky to have him. Now Warnock… He was asking for trouble linking Varney to Snoddy in my amateur op. He should’ve focused solely on replacing Snoddy’s goals with this top quality forward he’s after? After all we’re lackinf flair on the wings, but who says Snoddy’s flair has to be on the wing? First thing Warnock did was try to bring him central… Dje I’ve nothing against Hay. I think since Bates came in with his tinpot schemes of Yorkshire Radio, the Evening Press, just like BBC Radio Leeds, has been left in an unfortunate positions. I bet they are both REALLY hoping Bates is on his way out. That said, I do find it amusing how much grief Hay gets on their website. Not fair, but great reading. Re Warnock on Varney and Snodgrass, I agree entirely. I think he was caught off guard as he does sound quite bitter about Snodgrass leaving. I was sort of expecting a big name signing-in-progress today, what with the £1.5m upfront from the Snodgrass move. Maybe Monday. That said, strikers are tricky things for managers to bring in – as they really divide opinion amongst fans, more so than any other position, IMHO. Colin I’ve got an issue with Phil Hay. He doesn’t report what he really thinks. He reports what the club tells him to. Anything he reports is very basic and more often than not, stating the bleeding obvious. When Grayson was sacked, Hay talked continuously about how the writing was on the wall for Grayson and he was finished, weeks before he was sacked. I said that together with many others, before he got sacked. Phil Hay kept sucking up to Grayson, especially in his Press Conferences, yet never said a word. After Simon was sacked, he was full of ‘I knew it was going to happen’ but never had the bottle to say it at the time. The YEP is a comic – how anyone buys it is beyond me. Have you read it recently? My Mum, in Ossett, had someone knock on her door, asking her if she would like to get the YEP delivered to her door for a period of time at a reduced rate. She did. She won’t be keeping up with the subscription. Honestly, there’s a guy driving round to people’s houses posting the YEP for a discount deal. It’s worse than the Wakefield Express. There’s absolutely nothing in it. Phil Hay reports known facts. And we know the facts from sites such as this and NewsNow, hours before they appear in the YEP. I’ve read Phil Hay’s book, ‘From Darkness into White’ it’s factually correct, but, heck it’s a hard read. Phil Hay doesn’t have an opinion, he just reports the facts and stats. And that’s fine, BUT I WANT TO KNOW WHAT HE REALLY THINKS!! I want him to upset people and tell it like it is. I want him to speak as a fan rather than a journalist. Reading most of his stuff is like watching teletext – it’s dull. Phil is an educated guy – I want his opinion. I don’t want him to tell me Darren O’Dea was 6 out of 10. I want him to tell me that he thinks that Darren O’Dea is frankly shit. And he was, so why did he not say it? trueyorxman White, Green, Brown & Gray playing tonight. Any other ‘coloured’ players we should be signing? Matthew The Leeds United rainbow All White David Silva. Matthew Only if a Billionare buys us lol. God wish one did, would love to see Van Persie at Leeds.. TimPM Dexter Blackstock? Tare The White light has all the other colours in it…. Tare trueyorxman McCormack’s bagged 2 already tonight, what’s Colin thinking an=bout trying to flog him Captaincrash our best player trueyorxman about philipmo I, like many other supporters, am just waiting for the deal to be done. Having had many dealings with the Arabs, including Saudis, all I can say is be patient. They are the most frustrating race to deal with. Inshallah (god willing)is all they ever seem to say. They are very, very slow at concluding deals. It will be concluded before the start of the season. chris Parker “final stages” “all but complete” “in the coming days” “rubber stamped” “early next week” “by the end of the week” “imminent”… lost interest Henryv Dje!! How can you disagree with me? I am a very agreeable person! NW has known he would lose Snoddy since the end of last season. He has, in PR mode, showed us how much he has tried (and he has) to keep him. However, I am sure he has been planning for a Snod-less Leeds for a long time. He has cleared out a lot of dead wood with more to come. I wish he would try to keep Ross, but it seems he has made his mind up. Because of the draw-out takeover, he is faced with no players for the start of the season. The players he wants to target he cannot, until the takeover is complete. If it were to fall through, and he was then faced with bringing players in, it would be too late. So just now he has a decent squad, put together on the cheap. This squad has something our team over the last few seasons lacked. Experience and fighting spirit. We can all weep for Howson, Johnson, Max and Snoddy, but they all treated us to too many lack lustre, wimpy performances. Being ove-run in midfield happened so often, I thought it was a tactic, so we could counter-attack!! LOL I think NW has all bases covered just now, and could not do anymore. If/when the take-over comes, NW will bring in players that will elevate our squad. Dje Too agreeable, HenryV! I agree that Warnock has done remarkably well with the lack of cash and willingness of the either board to get their arses in gear to back him. I was thinking today just how good we might have been if Warnock had come in as co-manager with Grayson c. 2010 and Bates had given Warnock £1.5m to sort out our terrible defense and defensive midfield but only on the proviso that the defense were not allowed to hoof it down the field and anytime the ball got five feet in front of our defensive midfielder Grayson with his attacking boys of Beckford, Gradel, Howson, Snodgrass, Becchio, Somma and McCormack would take over. It was a very nice thought. And personally I don’t feel they gave wimpy performances – I felt they started after Gradel went and oppositions no longer needed to keep full backs back on both wings to deal with Gradel and Snodgrass. After he went at least one fullback got up and into midfield and helped over-run our boys. Unfortunately, and not being bothered to repeat portioning blame, that forward line has dwindled to Becchio and a crocked-and-maybe-not-the-same Somma. So yes the defense is no doubt better (which couldn’t be worse) and yes we have bight in midfield but I really worry that we will become one of those ‘hard to score against but rarely score’ kind of teams. The Leeds faithful really aren’t the most patient bunch so I can really see them getting restless when we get to the 70th minute and we are 0-0 again and not looking likely to score. We all know what a dismal atmosphere we have at the moment, so I do fear this much more than I would have even in our dark days of Venables, Reid and Blackwell. Also, Warnock made QPR the kings of shutouts two season ago – but he had real talent on the wings and upfront, and they didn’t play the long ball associated with him. We really are lacking that. Henryv “more to come” OOoooppsss! I think I meant “more to go”!! phil just a thought,thorpe arch and luxury housing,a few million quid there for the sheiks never mind elland road for aretail park, theres already white rose centre up the road.get behind the team everybody,a new season beckons. Chareose ok i have sat and compared Warnocks current predicted first 11 and compared it with the side we could have had a year ago if Schmeichal, howson, gradel, snodgrass hadnt been sold. Graysons X1 got 75 points and Warnocks current team 74 with the defence being far better but midfeild lacking the class than the midfeild that made West Ham look ordinary….. However this doesnt tell the whole story because i cant see where the goals are coming from with warnocks current team as there is no natural width… Varney is most effective as a striker so it seems our wing play is dependant on White and or Rogers. Also Becchio and Varney will not score half the goals that Becchio and Mccormack would have… Dje Ah, you’ll have to wait for Warnock’s icing sugar, Chareose. But I agree about the lack of width and unknown striker partnership. Finger’s crossed for the rest of the summer – and failing that – Somma. Colin Chareose – How did you work it out? I can’t understand how the current 11 could get anywhere near the Grayson 11 considering it has so many Portsmouth players in it, who got relegated. On another point, I haven’t seen the pre season games but i’ve listened to them. Warnock’s going to play hoof ball surely, meaning the midfield is going to be bypassed. he’s already said McCormack will go if he gets an adequate replacement (probably for hoof ball football). If that’s the case, then post Snodgrass, he’s going to need to buy some absolute crackers on LW, RW and a striker. And he’s got 3 weeks to do it. And it will need some serious cash – £5m at the very least IMHO. Chareose Kenny 8 Drury 7 Pearce 8 Lees 7 Crainey 6 Austin 7 Green 6 White 6 Rogers 6 Becchio 7 Varney 6 Graysons X1 Schmeichal 8 Lees 7 Odear 5 White 6 Connolly 4 Howson 7 Snodgrass 8 Clayton 7 Gradel 8 Becchio 7 Mccormack 8 Hi Colin as stated, on paper we have swapped a good attack for a good defence….. although solid the current team lacks, width, creativity, pace and goal scoring so unless we sign some skillfull players expect plenty of bore draws Chareose by the way im scoring based on the championship…..for example Kenny is a quality goal keep for the championship level so deserves an 8 firstname.lastname@example.org and the “portsmouth are crap as they got relegated” myth should be put to bed…..getting bored of that nievety. They had a very good defence but no goal scorers. If they had not got 10 points deducted and the club being liquadated theyd have finnished mid-table…….cheers Colin Chareose – I’m afraid you made an error. Howson should have had 11 points. martin taylor I am a true Leeds through and through fan as I was born and bred in beeston.. I can remember night games lighting up me bedroom many a time.. I supported Bates reluctantly, but the guy is a business man! He helped us to where we are today and we should be thankful… that said, I am happy to see the back of him and his off-shore accounts! But WTF? bahrainy sheikhs looking to buy Leeds? come on get real! maybe it is true, who knows.. but I will wait and see as it is all very quiet atm… So snod goes, who can blame him..? Warnock needs workers not w4nkers for this team and sadly sSnod has shown his love of cash rather than love of the club.. Right so maybe we are propping pompey up by buying thier players..but are they any good? we should be pushing this season but will these guys do it for us? God i hope so.. Come on leeds..!! WhiteRose85 People need to get forget about Bates and the takeover. For me Warnock is getting the job done. Yes some might be free and from relegated teams but answer me this…..when Blackpool, Norwich and Southampton were promoted, did they have the best players? No, average! They just had the right man in charge playing with passion and organisation. Something we lacked last season. Warnock has HIS team now and this is where we’ll see just how good he really is! MOT Glenn Fleetwood Very interesting debate!!!! My first time on here and read all your comments. The first thing that is obvious is that everything I have read shows that everyone has Leeds at heart regardless of the debate. Now to my contribution….nearly fifty years as a fan I’ve seen it all as most of us have. The takeover??? It will happen, if not this Bahrainy, Indian, Saudi talk then I really believe something is happening KBs silence is deafening. He would normally be relishing hitting into his ‘Shyysters all talk no money, LU fans don’t know anything about running a football club’ shit. He’s in his eighties isn’t he? Cant see him running the club into his nineties and if he is not ill (and I wish he is) he will be soon if nature has got anything to do with it!!! So you see a takeover is inevitable our fears is how long can we cope with the mundane and the ridiculous both on and off the pitch? This is our quandary. Yes Snoddy, Howson, Gradel, and the rest of the mercenaries have left to be mundane elsewhere. But honestly did they set the world on fire at Leeds??? Beckford is the finest example of a player was bigger and better than Leeds and off he went to pastures new to be ordinary after ‘proving ‘ himself at the higher levels. The fact is our best players of the past six years, as mentioned above are an indication of our position,they were the best we could get!!! I for one am looking optimistically to the new season. The dross and the ridiculous of last season was breathtaking. The staleness of the team and the lack of true loyalty came out again and again on the pitch. Wholesale changes are essential and if starting again with a new blueprint has proved necessary for NW then so be it. Rather that than ordinary players holding the club to ransom. Please let a takeover happen sooner rather than later but in the mean time keep the faith everyone. We all know in our hearts we will be back in the big time one day soon…..believe!!!!!