No Unity As Individuals Push For Elland Road Boycotts TSS March 3, 2012 Leeds United 95 Comments Firstly, I’d like to make clear that I write this piece as an individual fan, Elland Road season ticket holder and nothing more. I’m not going to speak to you in the collective term The Scratching Shed because that header not only has multiple writers beneath it, but (as one irate reader pointed out recently) has been taken by some to be representative of our entire fanbase. This was never anyone’s intention, but the unavoidable reality is, that people will link to our posts and refer to us as “the view of Leeds United fans”. That’s true of all blogs, and I’ve been guilty of such generalisation myself when linking to the fansites and blogs of other teams. There has been a movement recently for fans to boycott games and cut Ken Bates off financially. Some fans have argued that this is the endgame for those of us opposed to Ken Bates leadership, and that it’s the only card we have left to play that could realistically bring his reign to an end. The predicted outcome of this move is one I would welcome and celebrate. Since day one I have been strongly opposed to Ken Bates because the situation we currently find ourselves in was all too predictable. While ever Ken Bates is in charge, the fans will have no input into the club whatsoever and anyone that raises objections will be shot down in an embarrassing rant that reflects badly on the club we love. Our owner loves the attention this role brings more than he will ever love the club itself. Moreover, Ken Bates’ history is not as successful as he likes to pretend. The Chelsea Village project he’s trying to emulate at Elland Road was a disaster for the football club, leaving fans expressing the same concerns we are now. Ultimately, the project made very little money, was tied up in offshore holding companies and had only a negative effect on Chelsea FC. Football was only ever a sideshow to fund Ken Bates’ side-projects. When Ken Bates instructed Peter Kenyon to find him a new investor (which resulted in Roman Abramovich’s buy out) Chelsea were crippled by £80m worth of debts and on the verge of bankruptcy. A decade ago I used to laugh at my Chelsea supporting Dad for his club’s troubles as he spent every waking minute complaining about Ken Bates’ misguided priorities, secrecy, lack of respect for fans, refusal to accept an alternative opinion and extortionate pricing policies. Sound familiar? Anyway, I digress… The issue here is suggested boycotts of Leeds United fixtures, an argument that has been made by plenty of individual fans and a couple of the other Leeds United bloggers, most notably Michael Green on Clarke One Nil. I appreciate that everyone has a right to express their own opinion, but things seem to have reached an entirely new level. People are no longer telling me their opinions, but are instead, telling me what to do. I’m not a particularly stubborn person, I’m not opposed to the idea of boycotts per se and I’m not arguing for arguments sake, but what gives anyone the right to tell others how to support their club? I hope this doesn’t come across as season ticket arrogance, but I happen to know for a fact that at least two of the people that have demanded I and other fans boycott matches do not hold season tickets themselves, and I’d be willing to bet good money that the majority of those calling for boycotts are in the same position. This isn’t a pissing contest, I’m not trying to suggest anyone is a “bigger fan” than anyone else, but the differing situations we’re all in should be taken into consideration. Not turning up and paying thirty odd quid isn’t a particularly difficult choice for anyone to make, but refusing to use a season ticket I’ve already paid money for is a different thing entirely. It’s also pointless! If the ultimate goal is to cut Ken Bates off financially then it’s far too late. And if the goal is a unified show of defiance, then that’s pointless too. Bates couldn’t care less, people have been protesting against him for decades. But none of this really bothers me too much, what bothers me is that fans are being hassled by others into making decisions. When fans point blank refuse to give up their trips to Elland Road, they’re insulted and belittled, their support for the club and even their own intelligence is questioned. And this is exactly what Ken Bates wants, divide and conquer is how he’s ruled all along. You’re just pawns in his little games. An individual crusade will only serve to alienate people further. Like me, fans will become annoyed by their own fans. I’m not going to be told how to support my club by anyone, I have the ability to make such decisions myself and won’t be swayed by people telling me that I’m to blame for Ken Bates’ continued reign because I continue to support him financially (which incidentally, I don’t. I haven’t renewed but that’s beside the point). I strongly believe change is needed at Elland Road, but I’m not arrogant enough to think I can speak on behalf of every single supporter that shares that belief. I don’t have all the answers, I’m just one individual watching fans tear lumps out of each other (metaphorically speaking) week in, week out because they want the same thing as I do, but can’t agree on the best course of action. This is why democracy is necessary. It’s why we need an organisation that can collect the ideas and thoughts of individuals, and turn them into a collective stance for us all. I joined Leeds United Supporters Trust for that very reason, and would urge you all to stop this unproductive squabbling and air your views in a collective forum of your peers. Take the pettiness away from the messageboards and terraces, share your thoughts at the regular meetings and then stand side-by-side with your fellow fans campaigning for change through the means determined by the majority. We need unity. People running around shouting at each other will get us nowhere. Paullufc1 Damn your good at this writing shit… Paullufc1 Not writing shit, but good at writing. Just to make myself clear on this. TSS @Paullufc1 Haha, cheers mate. MikeLUFCforBATESOUT @Paullufc1 No, you were right first time paul Terry E Well said. I’m 70 and have been attending ER on and off, finances permitting for 62 years. Much as I detest KB, and I do, and begrudge the money I pay him, I am not giving up watching my team at this stage of my life, particularly as my grandson has just become the 5th generation of my family to be bitten by the bug, just because we have an arsehole as chairman. He’s not the first Leeds United chairman to be an arsehole in the last 62 years either, it’s just that he’s the biggest one we’ve ever had. I’m not a member of any of the protest groups but I would like Bates out, however not as much as I want to keep going to ER for as long as I physically can TSS @Terry E Fair play mate. No one should hold that against you. NicholasSm1th Well said. lufc_chat Agree TSS, we do need a collective voice for fans, but I am not sure that LUST is that organisation. I agree with what you are saying about a boycott too to some extent. Whilst I myself favour a boycott, and am indeed boycotting games by way of being selective about what games i attend this season, there would on the face of it seem little benefit in a season ticket holder boycotting games. That said for games like todays televised game, it would reflect badly on Bates to the outside world, if the ground was more than half empty, and this would be achievable if season ticket holders boycotted this one game. Just a thought TSS @lufc_chat I think you need someone like LUST to organise such a thing and make the argument. If there was a strong enough argument made by a majority of represented fans, then in the interests of unity (and my belief in the democracy LUST stands for) I’d take part. MikeLUFCforBATESOUT @lufc_chat Here,Here! Panamaleeds He just loves us fighting between ourselves and I am sure his actions (mouth) are aimed at this. If we dont band together strong and in unity this dictator, tyrant, will be there as long as he draws breath. leedsforlife1 Protests about the chairmen are utterly useless as he won’t be going anywhere unless it is by his own terms, why people can’t seem to see this I really do not know. Protests against the chairmen just produce a horrible negative atmosphere which certainly doesn’t do any good for the players, and boycotts would only negatively affect the players. I can’t see Snodgrass wanting to play in front of 18,000 every week who turn up to piss and moan about a chairmen that won’t be going anywhere! Fans need to get behind the team and forget the shit that goes on off the field, we need to start concentrating on rallying the lads on otherwise the season may as well be written off now which by the looks of it many people already have! MOT TSS @leedsforlife1 I don’t disagree with the points you’ve made. Protests are pointless when you’re dealing with Ken Bates (although they did raise the issue and get media coverage) and I don’t like the negative atmosphere inside Elland Road either, but inaction is not an option for me. I think that’s true of the majority. leedsforlife1 @TSS I just feel that fans should concentrate on being just that..fans. If people turned the negative protests against Bates into getting behind the team you never know where Leeds could end up in the table. The Elland Road crowd have always been renowned for being the 12th man for us, this season it just feels like where a man down with the way the crowd have been WIll23 @leedsforlife1 @TSS Ah, fans should be sheep? Not think about the ridiculous business model, or the high ticket prices? Do you not like confrontation? It’s life. Get a backbone. You need it. MikeLUFCforBATESOUT @leedsforlife1 And what will you say en noddy pisses off anyway because he has AMBITION LUST are Wankers Ye let’s all boycott games and show no support for the players or manager just so we can have a cry about Bates .. Some of you guys are pathetic and I seriously doubt how much of a fan of Leeds you really are. As Bates said himself, this is an annoyance and tbh it is to a lot of true Leeds fans aswell, do LUST think that not supporting the team and letting the players suffer will do anything to Bates? The fact is he won’t go anywhere until he chooses to so stop acting like children and act like real fans and get behind the team and Warnock because what you knobheads fail to comprehend is that the so called action you take has a negative effect on the players aswell, some may choose to leave Leeds because of all the unrest .. Now you can blame Bates all you like but you are so naive it’s unbelievable, I hate Btaes but there is no way i’m about to do anything but get behind the lads for the rest of the season and see where we go, we aren’t going to do anything with small minded people like the majority of LUST …. Kids asked why they were protesting and they say just for a lark, that’s a real fan and a real reason is it, get fucking real !! leedsforlife1 Couldn’t agree more. no you are a wanker season ticket holder since 1971 and i was on that protest and it wasnt kids at all it was people like me… question my support you tosser… i bet you and your little cheerleading arselicker are armchair fans. lust have made clear that they support the team. there statement about warnock was incredibly supportive it was bates who… as usual… was the childish one leedsforlife1 I am a season ticket holder and have been for many many years and travel home and away and I agree with him about LUST etc. You shouldn’t make assumptions, you know what they say about people who assume things don’t you! no you are a wanker @leedsforlife1 shouldnt make assumptions yet your happy to take the word of bates on a spy he had at a protest he didnt care about??? wake up mate hes talking shit. theres video footage of the protests 90% were adults lust is 5000 leeds united fans. the dickhead above and bates arent insulting an organisation theyre insulting the fans. its the fans you dont agree with they make the decisions at lust leedsforlife1 I am not taking the word of bates about the protest, however I am saying the fans need to stand up and sing FOR leeds united and I feel that the protests against the club are hardly constructive and they aren’t cheering the team on…support the team who gives a fuck what happens off the pitch lets just get behind the lads and see where this season takes us ! no you are a wanker @leedsforlife1 unfortunately thats how fans feel and you dont get to decide how we act so get over yourself MikeLUFCforBATESOUT @leedsforlife1 This is a bates lacky for sure SimonORourke @MikeLUFCforBATESOUT @leedsforlife1 right there, that’s the problem. Anyone who posts something negative, even in the slightest, about LUST is called a lacky, or some other derogatory term. It’s really quite ridiculous. Yes, it is quite clear that a very loarge and loud section of the Leeds support do NOT get on board with the protests. That is a fact, it’s undeniable. As undeniable as the fact that another group inside the stadium like to chant “Bates Out” and other related chants. Facts are facts, ignore them if you wish. WIll23 @SimonORourke @MikeLUFCforBATESOUT @leedsforlife1 So, you say people should stop abusing the lacky’s? So when “LUST are Wankers” posts this name and calls fans “knobheads” you see no issue there? I guess Canada has limited needs for people who can read, or think? MikeLUFCforBATESOUT 5,000 of the eh? Including the founder and webmaster of this site!! Have you also managed to get yourself on the batas payroll? nothing else makes sense. SimonORourke Well wrote, to be honest. We have 13 games left this year. We need our supporters firmly behind us, and in the stands. If Bates is to leave, then we need premier league football (he won’t sell LUFC as a championship club). Personally, I don’t mind Ken Bates as I don’t find he bucks any trend for modern chairmen. However, I can understand the frustration of SOME fans where it pertains to immediate future (though the ones demanding we splash the cash are, quite simply, morons). As a club, Leeds have always been reliant on the backing of their fans. It is what attracts players to the club, despite our lowly league position. That support, unfortunately, has dwindled. I went every match from the start of the season until I left for Canada in November, the support was fantastic, mostly. That support needs to resurface. We don’t need boo’ing on the terraces while we’re 1-0 up or losing. We need a unanimous, boisterous voicing of support. Forget Ken Bates, he is short term. Fans need to look long term: financial security and, for a while, mid-table premier league anonimity. MikeLUFCforBATESOUT @SimonORourke How the fuck did Ken the arsewipe find all you people all of a sudden ? SimonORourke @MikeLUFCforBATESOUT you have issues. Thank the lord that you are not a typical fan skillysdad come on lust, stop moaning, get behind the team,you and i know that Bates is going nowhere, just think, you could be , i was going to say supporting but LUST dont support anybody they just moan, i meant watching Donny or Forest you’d have a field with them. JUST SUPPORT THE TEAM no you are a wanker lust = 5000 paying fans. are you really dismising the support of 5000 of your fellow fans??? as bad as bates if you are leedsforlife1 The thing that annoys me about LUST is that they say they are the voice of the fans…well I disagree with all these pathetic little marches and protests, and seeing as there are only 5000 followers, then they are the minority of the fans….stop diminishing peoples opinions and telling people they are as bad as bates if they disagree with you….time to grow up mate no you are a wanker @leedsforlife1 why should i when you idiots claim anyone that supports lust doesnt support leeds? its bullshit and you know it. go to a game sometime when theyre chanting for bates out and tell me who the minority is leedsforlife1 I am not saying they don’t support Leeds, I am saying they are concentrating too much on Bates rather than shouting for their team…You clearly don’t grasp the concept that I am a season ticket holder and go to away games, and 5000 fans is the minority of Leeds fans I think you’d find with an average crowd of 23000, unless my maths is that bad… no you are a wanker @leedsforlife1 lust is but one body that fans have chosen to represent them. do you think the other 18000 dont agree with there aims of getting bates out? id say the majority of them do personally. leedsforlife1 large sections of the kop boo when people chant Bates out and there are a very loud silent bunch of fans who choose not to get involved because of the grief people get if they disagree with LUST. fans all have their own opinions and this will always be the case, but for fuck sake can we all just chant for the lads today? support the team! MOT SimonORourke Paying fans? No stat or fact to back that up. In fact, every member of LUST that I know is not a paying fan, at least on a regular basis. LUST encourages EVERYBODY to join, unity in numbers, I guess. It doesn’t mean they are paying fans though. MikeLUFCforBATESOUT @SimonORourke Of course he is not a bates toady.. not much he isn’t. Rob MoT I would like to refer you back to the TSS article and particularly the sentiment of Leeds fans going up against each other. I would say you all need to wind your necks in a bit, have your own opinion and stop trying to impress what you think on others and that goes for whatever side of the line your on! Personally I’m a member of LUST and totally support what they are trying to do and the goals they have. Marches aren’t pathetic, they are a tool for those who choose to use them. Boycotts aren’t useless, they are there for the more emotional supporters who choose to use them. My son and I choose not to spend outside of the season tickets we have bought and will not renew this next time. We are the quieter end of the LUST……..but whatever your stance on the whole thing as fans I firmly believe we must remain united, we must back Manager and club. Anyone other than Southampton would have been smashed yesterday and the support was awesome…..that’s what happens when the 12th man gets involved!!! Come on folks MoT!!!!!! WoodyUK Paid my money for a season ticket and I’ll watch every match I can this season. Next season = no match ticket and I’ll pick and choose my games and if he doesn’t invest or the team doesn’t perform then I have the ability to register my displeasure by not attending and lining their pockets . Bates and Harvey’s comments this week made me no angrier than usual – they’re both self opinionated egotistical bullies and have no interest in their customer’s desires. Their only interest is in money and power and not LUFC or it’s supporters. The choice between Bates and bust was easy – I chose Bates and as long as he stays there will be a LUFC to support but it will be a LUFC that works as a business in Ken Bates best interest not ours. If there were credible alternatives then I would support them but I haven’t seen any high profile wealthy groups publicly state they want the club so we’re stuck with the old git. We’re all entitled to our own opinions so I won’t denounce anyone for their “get behind the team” statements – we all want the same thing on the pitch but we’re all very different people so our thoughts are different and that’s fine by me. MikeLUFCforBATESOUT Well we got unity allright!!! The Bastard Bates Toadies are well and truly out in force now. They have taken the kings shilling. This is clear because there simply can be no defence for a chairman who has dragged us into poverty stricken state we are in despite being amongt the highest gate prices in English football and the highest attendances too. pete58 What a fucking choice ,ken bates or rupert murdoch. MikeLUFCforBATESOUT TITLE = “No Unity As Individuals Push For Elland Road Boycotts ” Start of article…… “Firstly, I’d like to make clear that I write this piece as an individual” You gotta laugh, nice one David MOT EYLEEDS I thought LUST called for a 7 minute protest and hadn’t advocated boycotting matches. The players and manager know that the fans fully support them and the protests are aimed squarely at a chairman who is ruining our club. Boycotting matches is a personal preference and I’d never condemn a fellow fan either way. As regards whether 5,000 LUST members is representative of the wider fan base is debatable but I genuinely don’t know one person who doesn’t want Bates out of our club. MikeLUFCforBATESOUT @EYLEEDS Fair enough, I would advocate just showing up and supporting the lads from OUTSIDE the ground, I am sure we could organise some chippie/pie vans to keep all nourished if that cant go 2 hours without something to eat. Bring your own beer. Colin Myself and TSS on occasions don’t always see eye to eye. Regular posters will know that. On this occasion, I agree 100% with every comment in this article. Well said TSS. Absolute common sense. We need to discuss and think and talk. No knee-jerk reactions, we have to think about what we can do to make our club better. MikeLUFCforBATESOUT David said he was not posting as TSS and promptly signs it TSS MikeLUFCforBATESOUT Ts article starts with…. “Firstly, I’d like to make clear that I write this piece as an individual fan, Elland Road season ticket holder and nothing more. I’m not going to speak to you in the collective term The Scratching Shed” Gary Cooper Protesting against bates is pointless and it should stop I really regret advocating that now, I wish I put more time into supporting Leeds and actually going to matches rather than causing this pointless split, I am really sorry for my actions. To all the right minded and loyal Leeds fans I apologise whole heartedly. LUFC is marching on together with Ken Bates, I accept that it is the best policy for LUFC and our campaign for change has ceased MoT. BarneyWhite @Gary Cooper Protests happen naturally – reduced attendances this season reflect this. Looking forward much will depend of how the club progress. Tonights game made me think renewing is the right thing but I am to rushing. If snodgrass and white go and we have a repeat of the last close season then no chance. It is up to Ken Tyler75 @Gary Cooper Mr Harvey, I see you’ve returned with a new nom de plume – we’ve missed you. WIll23 @Gary Cooper Pointless split? So, accept ticket prices? Accept the ludicrous business model? Nonsense. Financially crippling Bates FC is the only solution with fans attending New Leeds FC mattbb1 i suspect this isnt really gary cooper Will. I’ve spotted more and more abuse of not just this but a number of other forums who have the audacity to question how the club is being run. Pretty childish behaviour. number1inyorkshire 20k +today free shirt for the kids didnt work either ok it was on sky . the ones that stayed away missed a fantastic performance from leeds and their keeper .. protest are not working in fact with bates its the opposite it galvanises him its almost like the tyrants of libya and syria .he has a point to a degree but the war must go on but in a different way its time to unite the fans lets ask them what they want there were 20k today plenty of people giving lust stuff out not many taking them .the square ball has been on offer a while not really many takers , why???? .. I give an employee at leeds a lift home today there are talks of some staff redundancies if things do not pick up i am talking match day staff not full time staff but still, so numbers buying from bates are down too . its a muddle no genuine alternative there has to be before the winter of discontent becomes another summer of expectation ,the difference is based on today the expectation is genuine ,coming from the ground today in defeat there was optimism like we have not seen for 2 seasons .everyone i spoke to although we got beaten was happier ,the 20k crowd was noisier ,and the cheers at the end were louder ,has bates done it in the appointing of warnock has he won the battle .Simple fact is LUST couldn’t have done that or sack grayson he holds the cards ,he has won the battle the war will be decided in MAY 2013 . if he backs warnock with genuine money and we do go up then he will be the all conquering hero .these are battles but bates is winning the war … Tyler75 @number1inyorkshire I don’t think I’ve been ever as enthused by a 1–0 defeat as I was today – I thought we were excellent, made Soton look less than average and no idea how we didn’t win. If that’s the sort of up and at ‘em performance we can expect from a Warnock team then bring it on ! number1inyorkshire @Tyler75 we were fantastic TimPM @number1inyorkshire @Tyler75 And think back to Grayson’s final match vs Brum before that freak of nature destroyed us. And our team pretty much matched West Ham away early on, unlucky not to beat Cardiff as well… Terrible performances overall, but we’ve gone to some of these sides and been better than them. I’ll not say much against Grayson, but Udders have gone from a watertight team to a sieve in 3 games… Chareose @number1inyorkshire Protesting does work…… it isnt the whole answer but its needed in order to bring media attention and therefore political preassure………… number1inyorkshire @Chareose it helps but at the min there are far more important stuff than football going through parliament and if the Mail article had anything to go by then they are not getting much more in the papers .. WE can say whay we will; but Bates is 2—3 ====0 up at the min and its nearly half time dh lufc @number1inyorkshire I agree with you wholeheartedly, I liked Grayson, but really was all the anti-bates stuff peoples frustration at the teams performance, did the anti-bates chants cost Grayson his job, and with hindsight was it the right decision. I don’t love Bates I don’t care who owns Leeds, I just want to watch performances and enjoy the atmosphere like yesterday, the attendance was low but the atmosphere was like Elland road of old, the kop never stopped singing, the chanting at the end, the optimism in defeat, you got to admit Bates has got something right. Come on LEEDS!!! Colin Leeds have as much chance of getting promoted as the UK have of winning Eurovision this year. That said, I quite rate Englebert Humperdink and he has something about him. Okay, he’s knocking on, can’t really move anymore and he’s not done much for a while, but he was great in his time. Englebert is our Danny Webber. TimPM Danny Webber moved about enough yesterday! On Vital Football the poll for MoM had him about joint leading, on 25%. I thought that was weird until I thought about my vote – Becchio did great but he missed a few, Snoddy didn’t do much because of double-marking and poor shots from the other side of goal to usual, Clayton did great but showed the same lack of killer instinct with passing… Webber it is. Tyler75 @TimPM I thought Webber was excellent and caused havoc when he came on – he’s got genuine pace which we’ve missed up front since Gradel went and struck up an instant rapport with Ross, Becchio and Snods. He was very unfortunate not to score. As good as an ER debut I’ve seen since Max. Once he’s match fit, I’d play him as part of the 3 behind Becchio with White dropping out. Colin @Tyler75 @TimPM I thought Webber had an excellent 10-15 minutes but seemed to disappear after that. I think he just burned himself out. He’s nowhere match fit IMHO and I think he’ll struggle to effectively play a competitive 90 minutes this season. That said, that isn’t a slight on his worth to Leeds. Beckford had a number of games where he did very little for huge amounts of the game and then a little 10 minute spell was all that was needed to get the goals and the 3 points. And if a player is capable of doing that then that’s fine with me. He’s done his job. number1inyorkshire webber had a good day for leeds thought he did ok on a sub debut . if he starts he will get better and improve our team til the end of the season ..thought becchio had his best match for 2 seasons would have been man of the match had he scored . OVERALL it wasobvious who m o m was . cant pick 1 for leeds but it was a good overall performance from which we deserved more … oldschoolbaby The problem with boycotts is that you`re not sure how much they hurt Leeds United as a core business and they, rather conveniently, ignore the fact bates is highly likely to be independently very wealthy with a big pot of money secreted elsewhere offshore. Leeds fans, as a body, don`t have the power to oust him without support from elsewhere LUST should have kept it simple portraying themselves as victims. Honest people who wanted to know the truth about who owned their club. Hard working people struggling to pay excessive ticket prices. Concerned people worried about the focus on corporate hospitality and hotels. All entirely legitimate regardless of what counter attack Bates deployed. It`s all about egos and trying to induce political, authority and media egos to take on the monstrous ego of Bates. Instead they had to poke the tiger in his cage and try and sell his train set. Tactics beat testosterone. When testosterone clashes with testosterone you get messes like this post and comment thread Chareose there are only two things that will get rif of Ken bates, one as mentioned above is hurting him financially, the other is through political or legal routes………protesting does help to get media awareness but it needs to be hand in hand with other forms of preassure…….. To Be honest I think Lust have done fine so far…….the seasons as good as over and their board members are banned from ER so its time for them to up the anti….. TimPM @Chareose Protests are a waste of time in my view too. They get awareness, but every time you have less than about 10k in a protest (which is an unreasonable number to hope for) there’s the convenient answer of the “vocal minority”. Plus the fact Bates couldn’t care less what we think. Boycotting seems by far the most dangerous method and is unlikely to attract enough fans to properly work anyway. We should surely be trying to pull strings? Come on, this bloke just banned LUST from buying tickets as a token gesture when everything was smoothing over. That’s the action of a vindictive bully-boy with not much clue how to control the masses, the type we read in his programme notes. It’s not the action of a business strategist. And considering his well documented exploits in tax havens and with Chelsea (exploiting loop-holes, etc. etc.) it points all the more to rich pickings if we can attract experts to pick over his actions? Chareose @TimPM I thought the same but after the last protest every news site was running stories on the problems at Leeds……It gives the media something to bite on. If you dont do that how are you going to get attention from potential investors and politicians ? TimPM @Chareose You might be right with that. Chareose @TimPM we shouldnt give up mate…. for me Id take relegation in order to get rid of bates (i know thats extreme but i want my club back)…….it just feels likes hes completely shackling us and once hes gone we will spread our wings I do regret that Warnock has joined us with all this going on….got a good feeling about him but I think this is the wrong time ( i bet he secretly hopes that Bates will sell up soon and he gets a decent chairman) oldschoolbaby @Chareose Unusually, I`m agreeing with chareose. The size of the protest is irrelevant. The prevailing public and political mood is anti offshore, opaque ownership of institutions like football clubs. LUST should look to harness that by playing the victim to the bully Bates. Yes, it would be gratifying to see him taken behind the bike sheds for a beating but it`s not the smart move in this war. number1inyorkshire I HATE KEN BATES i feel i have to say that before i make some comments but it is true …. I have a question old school ,would you have banned the people on the L U S T board etc .in these circumstances .i know i would have done … Chareose @number1inyorkshire not when you just brought in a new manager demanding unity and lust had formally told their members not to protest on saturday………..there was no logic to banning them at that stage, hes an idiot that cant deal with constructive critiscism number1inyorkshire @Chareose i saw warnock arrive at leeds yesterday with his wife daughter and 2 grandchildren ,he was mobbed by hundreds of leeds fans thats what he wants .he is like every member of a club coming to the new place .fans etc are fantastic . with all due respect to warnock who i think is absolutely the best man to take us forward he is playing a game that everyone plays and in real terms could not care less, he was protecting himself from the old leeds stuff he has said whilst at sheffield . he was loving the way he was received yesterday his wife etc looking on and thats the way it should be .. oldschoolbaby @number1inyorkshire Of course I wouldn`t. It was that moronic a move it makes you think he`s dementing. If LUST stuck to basic, fundamental grievances as I`ve outlined ad nauseum they could, easily, withstand counter attack of any kind. Trying to sell his trainset smacked of an attempt to bully the bully. Bates outmanoevured them by appointing the fans choice in Warnock. Having picked himself up and brushed himself down what is the point of fuelling the fire again. It`s very worrying and reinforces my fears that a) He`s independently very wealthy and doesn`t give a toss who he gets into a fight with b) He would rather drag Leeds into the gutter than be told how to run it ( of course the reverse is true as a narcissist he would like Leeds to be successful but only on his terms ) Finally, it proves he really doesn`t give a shit. Those who believe he thinks in PR terms and even employs commentators to spin pro Bates propoganda on blogs can think again WIll23 Bates is not that wealthy. Leeds fans as a body, do have the power as customers to financial cripple Bates FC. Sadly, fans will not simply give up their fix, but they need to if they want to get their club back. If the fans do not act, then they are stuck with the status quo and cannot really complain. Chareose tss even democracy can struggle without leadership……..the leeds fans need good leaders to unify them, a public image they can all relate to….perhaps the likes of Nigel martyn need to be more outspoken. Once a semblance of leadership is derived the fans need to follow their lead (Just like a union) or it will just be a collection of different efforts all acheiving sod all Bluesman What is really needed is for Bates to realise that the fans have a vast stake in the club and should be listned to and respected. We all know that the board make the financal decisions, but it is foolish for them to develop a situation that the fan base object to. The fans have the right to boycott or not. It is their money that they pump in week after week and it is up to the board to listen, plan and communicate effectively on the issues. Why can’t Bates throw his weight behind Leeds and back them in real terms instead of falling out with everyone in sight, including the faithful? He could start by lifting the ban on LUST. LUST have 4,500 members who want to get their point across. Support them in doing this. Chareose @Bluesman because hes just at elland road for money and attention and i think you know that deep down number1inyorkshire @Chareose @Bluesman course he is and that is all ,to get it into a situation where he can sell it to make money Bluesman @number1inyorkshire @Chareose Fully agree with this. He is simply a business man that has lost the faith and respect of his major stakeholders. The trouble is that he seems to have a few years left in him yet. He could have more years in him than the Queen Mother. Why doesn’t he just retire like everybody else? mattbb1 democracy is rarely a useful tool when you want to get things done – as ken bates is proving, he’s the one achieving what he wants because he has a.) The Cash b.) The Ownership of the club. To me he’s like a Saddam or a Pol Pott type tyrant, does what he likes whilst no one is prepared to stop him, I too back LUST but I think they need to be a bit more prescriptive in terms of putting forward ideas to get Bates removed. If we wait for everyone to agree on a course of action it will be too late. By trhat I mean Bates will have wrecked Leeds United as a business and a football team.. Koppite 1 Lots of comments about how good we were yesterday, and we were, but still lost. That condemns us to mid table obscurity. Even the ever up beat Eddie Gray acknowledged that on propaganda radio. As far as Bates is concerned he must be worried. The average gate is now close to break even i.e.20k . That means no summer signings and therefore no challenge for promotion next year. All I can see is a further decline and possibly another administration. Warnock can only do so much with his inherited “sow’s ear” of a team. I wish him well but without investment in the squad we have no chance. saltzby to me if you do not like something you do not buy. It really is that simple. Jonno63 You’re right mate. Clarke One Nil is a sad man, and I completely disagree with his stupid ideas. Bluesman Look at any successful football club and one factor is common! They have a good board and excellent business acumen. They manage financial risk, invest appropriately in the team and facilities, use marketing, branding and sponsorship to achieve a balanced investment in the team and facilities. So where are the problems with Leeds? There has been investment in the ground, good strategy, but has there been sufficient investment and balance in the team and other elements of the business? Perhaps Papa Smurf is now considering this?? TimPM @Bluesman I would question whether spending £20mil on the ground is good strategy when it would, in fact, have paid for the repurchase of both TA and ER and thus cut about £3mil off our expenditure per annum (as well as creating a feel-good factor for the fans) and thus could have seen the same £20mil spent without taking away from the wage budget within another 6 years… Colin @TimPM @Bluesman I reckon it’s all dodgy re. ownership. Anyone with a brain would have worked with Leeds City Council (who were interested) to let them take ownership of ER & TA and repay via a long term mortgage. But Bates turned it down. Bates and his dodgy offshore mates own ER & TA, and if that bill goes through, then that will come out. And Bates is screwed. Let’s say I had £20m – if the owners come out, I can then go out and just contact them and buy ER & TA. And all Bates is left with is a brand, a shit radio station and a crap load of footballers. Bluesman @TimPM If this is indeed the case then I fully agree!! WIll23 TSS, No one is telling anyone what to do. Simply pointing out certain facts about what will have the greatest impact on Bates FC. A boycott is the only way you will impact Bates FC. No amount of talks, no amount of protests, no amount of anti-Bates sentiment will have the necessary impact on Bates compared to the reality of lost revenue from fans and attendances down to 10,000. Now yes, if you have a season ticket it is obvious that a boycott of games is neither here nor there. You can avoid the shop and the bars and not buy the stupidly expensive programme. Bates will sell any asset he can to keep his ship afloat…yes Snodgrass will leave as will others. But so what? Sadly, I do not see many supporters of enough volume will refuse to buy season tickets whilst those who pick and choose will still go to the odd game in five. A boycott will not take off, but it is a fact that it is the only method that would bankrupt Bates FC. But even then, I admit, Bates FC would reincarnate itself, with creditors once again losing out to another bent, but legal, administrative process especially if KPMG are involved (shame on them) who will relay on verbal representations rather than get real hard evidence of legal structures and relationships. So we are effectively stuck with the old git unless his health takes a turn for the worse and he dies. Or, some wealthy Leeds fan makes an offer Bates cannot refuse. Yet, if he dies, you can bet he would have some tricks up his sleeve written into his will that would see beneficial ownership transferred behind some other veil of secrecy, thanks to the lawyers. And if he sells, well who to? It could well be a case of better the devil we know? I still think the solution is to start anew, similar to AFC Wimbledon and FCUM, but again not enough fans of sufficient volume would willing move out of their comfort zone due to history and tradition. mikelufcbastardbatesout @WIll23 I agree with you mostly but I think there is zero chance Bates fc will go bankrupt unless he is a bigger arseole than we think he is and does it out of pure spite. In which case Leeds City FC here we come. But you are right most fans do not have enough spine to stick it to him, they would rather maintain the status quo BUT it does not take all fans, just enough to reduce ER attendances to below 10,000 will have an immediate reaction from BB. his love of money will see to that. Bluesman Anyone who has any doubt about the strategy of Leeds United should read the following article: Leeds United’s Ken Bates and Neil Warnock: A Match Made in Purgatory Championship Talk in News Now! Lets pray that article is wrong and that Ken Bates has a better plan. The article suggests that he is just lining his own pockets? One thing is for sure, what ever you say about him he is not a fool!!! MurkyBob If you have shelled out a kings ransome for a season ticket it doesn’t make any sense not to go to the games. What you can do though is refuse to buy any of the over priced rubbish that passes for food and beveridge and refuse to buy merchandise from the club shop. Also don’t renew for next season. For non-season ticket holders, why not stand outside the ground and cheer on the team whilst not handing over any money to Bates. Of course the real issue is who could afford to buy out Bates since all of the rumoured interest so far has been put off by ludicrous demands from Bates who wants the money but also wants to retain control. Some say that the only way he will leave is in a box, but there is no guarantee of that happening any time soon since he is likely to live well into his 90’s, evil people always do.