Is There A Beard Under The Bed? Matt BB March 5, 2012 Leeds United 83 Comments Pinochet – a lightweight democrat… Paraphrasing the oft’ trotted out phrase of `red under the bed’ used in the vile McCarthy communist witch-trials in 1950’s America, what I’m driving at here is whether we’re being watched? Now that’s of course what newspapers, websites, documentaries and so forth are there for. If anyone on this site thinks they’re engaged in a private chat – think again. You’re in the public domain. When you place your name against a written opinion you’re almost fully exposed to claims of libel, damages and so on and so on. In short you’re in Ken’s end of the pool (in terms of litigiousness). Ken though doesn’t like to do his business in the public eye, well apart from monstrous corporate boxes anyway. Transfer fees are `undisclosed’, speculative targets are rarely discussed. Until they reject us that is, at which point he’s the most outspoken of all with a “we didn’t want him anyway” / “we’re taking our ball home then” type response. Leeds United’s players are back on twitter – so help us god – and while it provides respite for most insomniacs “Lonners has just walked in wearing orange tracksuit – lol” – ad nauseam… You’d have to admit that communications around the team seem very closely monitored. So back to the original question, does Ken Bates read The Scratching Shed? Clarkeonenil? The Beaten Generation or The Square Ball? Well he certainly keeps an eye on all that the Leeds United Supporters Trust does. Observers in the march, a freeze on ticket accounts of the board members. It seems that that other lovable oldie (now sadly departed) General Pinochet has nothing on our Ken in the `information management stakes’ So if he’s prepared to go that far for LUST, to rigorously control Twitter and social media of those in the club, surely he’s not above monitoring what’s on the internet about Leeds United, or indeed himself. So my theory goes – yes – he is reading, and maybe personally – Hi Ken! In the spirit of this article, no names, no pack drills, but I can think of at least one `contributor’ whose posting content made the sycophantic Peter Lorimer look like some kind of radical anti-Bates-ist. Let’s call them Rigsy shall we? Criticism of Chairman Ken was ridiculous, un-commercial, and worst of all tantamount to not supporting the team. Any posting of any nature got pulled to pieces within minutes. And that poster was not alone; did Gary Cooper really add a post that his campaign was nonsense? It seems that someone somewhere is having a cyber-dig at the opponents of the current regime. On a number of other sites posts almost verbatim citing our chairman’s fantastic grasp of numbers are quoted. And perhaps yes some people really do believe that – and good luck to them, we live in a democracy. Influencing opinion through the media is nothing new, as I’ve said, its largely what the media is about. We’ve all heard about the millions of well-informed Brits who wait for the front page of the Sun on election day to find out who they’re going to vote for – thank you Rupert Murdoch for the Con-Dems. But one cannot escape its sinister nature. You’d have to say that this website for example is borne out of a general love and respect for Leeds United, a desire for the team to do well, and be a place for open discussion? Right? But if the current ownership at Leeds United decided they didn’t like people having a different opinion to them and started trying to pollute that debate – then you’d have to admit something was then very wrong, both with their motives and with the whole relationship between the club and its fans. Are we expected to turn up – hand over our money (a lot of money) and shout on our team, but have absolutely no say in who manages the team, who plays for the team, how they play, or how much money that we invest gets spent? Are those having opinions worthy of such prejudicial action as being forbidden from attending games? Can we then not even post an opinion on a website, without having enormous repercussions, no matter how innocuous that may be? It smacks of paranoia, insecurity and a hunger to wholly control. In short a manic desire to blot out the opposition. For some, notoriety in the press is a good thing, full stop. But it would seem that’s not enough for our cuddly chairman, being notorious and a figure of debate and fun is not enough, he wants to be feared too. Note to Ken – You’re running a second division football team, not a South East Asian former colony on the verge of civil war. People tend to have opinions here in most western democracies, you might just want to get on with your job, and let us get on with ours, supporting the team, even in the face of unreasonable provocation – MOT. AndyFROST Paranoid Android. Leeds fans are losing their minds – Shocker. Haha, there is so much rumour, paranoia and a general feeling that Bates is akin to some middle eastern tyrrant that this ‘situation’ is being blown out of all proportion. The Bates Regime haha. Syriaan Regime Change, Iranian Regime Change. Bates Regime. LOL. Stop looking for holes and promoting paranoia – what next Bates’ illuminati links? He own’s OUR football club and you’re right we do have no say in who manages the team, who plays for the team, how they play, or how much money is invested. That’s the nature of business ownership. I have been asking my local pub to re-stock the Pickled Eggs and get some WiFi but it keeps falling on deaf ears! TSS as an opinion former should know better. Get a grip. TSS @AndyFROST I didn’t write the above, but may have to follow up on the Ken Bates illuminati link. Successful businesses listen to and respond to their customers. The company I work for has an entire office full of people that do nothing but deal with customer queries in anyway possible. Whether that’s trying to get them stock that is no longer available on the highstreet, explaining price increases or simply sending them vouchers as a gesture of goodwill following poor service, their ultimate goal is to ensure all our customers are happy – because happy customers spend more, and this is the case even at Leeds United. Ken Bates is a self-professed Master of Business (based on what evidence, I have no idea) yet he fails to understand the basics. He has thousands of fans refusing to attend matches and thousands more refusing to spend money while he’s there. Whether this is a minority or majority is beside the point, the fact is, the fans generate income and as a business, you should be doing everything in your power to please them. AndyFROST @TSS Inviting guests to write articles is a danger if they churn out such drival. Social Media Monitoring from LUFC? They can’t sell tickets through the website properly and the customer service from the ticket office is archaic and you believe they are monitoring Social Comms. Hehe. Love It! I love your view on businesses as well, the idealist view that I share but we all know it’s not like that. I head up a marketing team and yep, it’s customer first always, but we maximise revenue at every opportunity. I am currently pissed off with numerous brands including Redrow, BMW, IKEA, Dreams, The Oddfellows Arms all who fail to deliver what they promise – but that’s the way it goes doesn’t it… A sad fact. RafaLUFC @AndyFROST “that’s the way it goes” because cowards like you don’t stand up and do something about it, instead complaining at those who are making noise because it inconveniences you. AndyFROST @RafaLUFC I do complain to BMW but I don’t wrap my arms around the factory in Berkshire, begging for redemption. I look to solve it in the appropriate way – providing evidence their at fault. Key word – EVIDENCE. I don’t find it inconveniencing – it’s piss funny, watching melts like you explode. You’re so fucking funny. If 10 of your mates so would YOU, because YOU’RE THE WEAK. AndyFROST @RafaLUFC I do complain to BMW but I don’t wrap my arms around the factory in Berkshire, begging for redemption. I look to solve it in the appropriate way – providing evidence their at fault. Key word – EVIDENCE. I don’t find it inconveniencing – it’s piss funny, watching melts like you explode. You’re so fucking funny. If 10 of your mates changed opinion so would YOU, because YOU’RE THE WEAK. Chareose @AndyFROST @RafaLUFC Andy you mentioned maximising revenue at any oportunity, yes thats exactly what Ken does (into his own pocket) but most companies also invest in themselves if they are to be successful, your employer Ken Bates obviously doesnt understand that letting 4-5 first team players leave to (in most cases) top flight teams has brought his business to a grinding stagnant halt. His business is now going backwards because the momentum gained in our recent promotion has gone. This is also down to his refusal to invest in further playing staff and his alienation of his customer base. The property developments should have started when leeds were safely re-established in the Premiership not at the expense of promotion. RafaLUFC @AndyFROST what about those 10 mates? They have the opinion. Guessing if 10 of their mates changed opinion so would they, too, which would mean an increasingly large number of people would have to share the opinion, or there would have to be someone with a strong personal opinion in there, which would mean they’d have something to base that opinion on. Contradict your own argument. mikelufcbastardbatesout @TSS @AndyFROST One of your better posts TSS but surely you can spot a Smurf Arse Licker or a dingbat or both? Check his IP address and see what other names he has used also the location, I will explain how to do that if you dont know AndyFROST @mikelufcbastardbatesout @TSS 188.8.131.52 Never used another name Mike your Paranoid bastard – see what all this rumour is doing to you? mattbb1 hardly right for someone using the LUST logo and claiming to be gary cooper posting is it?! surely hes been through enough this week – whoever you are perhaps the joke has grown `old’ and maybe a little `beardy’ mattbb1 @AndyFROST one of mine Andrew, so whilst i agree with TSS’ comments I’ll defend the piece somewhat, this is about allowing fans to form aopinions, and within reason where there are groups that disagree with Ken Bates, instead of ostracising them perhaps he might do better to at least entertain some of their comments? my problem is when i see forums `interfered’ with IMHO, and then fans groups marginalised where they publicly slate the chairman, and hed do well to listen to at least part of the criticism – 20K at saturdays home game? ouch. AndyFROST @mattbb1 Ahahahaha! You believe this nonsense? You need to see someone mate, you’re over thinking this. He will smashing Suzanne’s backdoors in and drinking champagne bought with my money – not reading TSS. Yes, 20k when it’s on TV… mattbb1 @AndyFROST well thanks for that image (which has scarred me) i dont see it as completely deluded to have a chairman in place who actually cares about his client bases’ opinion. He’s got previous though hasnt he in terms of phoning fans up – so why wouldnt he read the websites if he is prepared to sink to that level? AndyFROST @mattbb1 Responding to a letter that has an address and a phone number included is one thing. Monitoring 5 websites, Twitter and Facebook is something else. mikelufcbastardbatesout @AndyFROST I think he has a load of suckarses like you to do something he knows not how to. What exactly is your point/purpose? you do not have ” fellow fans” or the clubs best interests at heart. TimPM @AndyFROST @mattbb1 He has, more than once, referred to issues almost verbatim that have been discussed on Leeds sites. To think he is reading things religiously is a bit weird, but it’s hardly surprising that he’d read some of the better travelled Leeds sites once in a while… TSS @AndyFROST @mattbb1 Like most businesses, Ken will employ someone to monitor all types of media and bring matters gathering any kind of momentum to his attention. You can’t not do nowadays, controlling the media no longer ends at the tabloids and TV, it’s much wider than that. As @TimPM points out, he does have a habit of responding directly to stuff read online. I’m not suggesting he subscribes to the RSS feed of all the sites mentioned, but when one particular article is causing a lot of discussion across the web, someone at Elland Road will spot it and I’m sure it ends up in front of KB eventually. He wouldn’t be able to counter every issue so successfully if that wasn’t the case. He’s actually said before that he has stuff printed out and sent to him. mattbb1 @TSS some interesting responses. to quote the bard “Me thinks the lady doth protest too much..” some virulent responses to what i thought was reasonably innocous piece – a nerve touched! while there is plenty of drivel as you say in this day and age you do look at your business and names’ referred to in pieces online. That just the norm. AndyFROST @mikelufcbastardbatesout Haha. You can’t see the wood from the tree’s mate, your blinded by the noise that surrounds Bates – your opinion is informed by the mis-informed. My purpose, dipshit, is to try and offer up a sense of balance. Disinformation is not good. Love your username, would be a great tattoo on your face. AndyFROST @TSS @mattbb1 @TimPM Prove that Ken employs someone to monitor media. You can’t. Until anything can be proved stop spreading nonsense … It’s like a fucking playground. TSS @AndyFROST @mattbb1 @TimPM If Ken doesn’t I’d be surprised. But you don’t necessarily need to anyway, it’s going to come to his attention if it causes any kind of stir. Look how quickly he caught on to TenForKen which was an internet campaign. You have to admit, he does seem to respond to a lot of general themes raised online “Some fans say…” “Then you have these morons that say…” etc… he’s quoted almost verbatim at times stuff I’ve read online. TSS @AndyFROST @mattbb1 @TimPM Oh, and another thing. Neil Warnock said that he had someone checking what the fans were saying online before deciding to join Leeds, and if they are doing that, he’s only going to check Google News or NewsNow (both of which we’re in). Put yourself in their shoes, could you resist looking? I couldn’t. I know for a fact that Simon Grayson checked NewsNow regularly. He also has a young lad that posts on Twitter and reads all the stuff from fans. It’s impossible these days not to hear the opinions of fans. How could it not get back to them once it gathered any kind of momentum, they’re only human. Do you honestly think that of the 80,000 unique visitors we had last month, not one of them had any connection to LUFC? Bradford City requested that Boy From Brazil (a long running fans site) closed down as they felt it was causing problems. TimPM @AndyFROST @TSS @mattbb1 @TimPM Either he monitors fans sites or he’s about the only businessman stuck in 1990. I have no need to prove anything. I have said things are likely. If you are SURE that such things are wrong then you have to prove your point. I have not dealt in absolutes, you have. TimPM @TSS @AndyFROST @mattbb1 I laughed when he came out with “well we have 5mil hits so ignore other sites” after you’d been talking about having 100k. Not that I believe it’s anything but coincidence…(!) Just like when he went on about empty vessels making most noise just after I’d written the same here a couple of months ago. He’d never said it before or since and it’s not a particularly well-coined phrase nowadays. Clearly we’re just on the same wavelength! mattbb1 @TimPM @TSS @AndyFROST @mattbb1 thats the whole point of the article though, its supposed to create a debate around if Bates or more likely his staff review social media, and unless theyre living in a cave of course they do. They market through the media, advertise on the internet, and have a website. Bates refers disparagingly about all other sources of information about the club in his last rant – so he does know about them. as TSS says if you had the opportunity to see what others were saying about you you’d look – of course you would. How on earth can it be `nonsense’ or like a playground to have a debate or a bit of banter, to call it all nonsense, and suggest these things shouldnt be discussed smacks a little of the paranoic Mr Frost, I’m all for freedom of speech, but dead against those who like to squash it. What danger is there in having an opinion? Youre a little too like our chairman. RafaLUFC @AndyFROST @TSS @mattbb1 @TimPM WHERE’S THE PROOF? SHOW ME PROOF? You sound just like ken bates. And guess what bates does? Makes countless claims without providing any evidence whatsoever, then insults people for questioning what he’s said and slags off people for making “groundless” statements. RafaLUFC @TimPM @AndyFROST @TSS @mattbb1 Only a Sith deals in absolutes. Leeds4alongtime I have to admit that whilst the ban may be unwelcome, these guys are actually causing problems at matches? Anything that brings unwanted attention to our club is detrimental, we have enough media moguls trying to take cheap shots and rake up the past as it is without giving them more ammunition? The answer is simple really, well at least as far as LUST are concerned? If you don’t like the way Bates runs the club, then either buy him out or go somewhere else? Why should we genuine supporters who DO hand over our money and DO support the team, through ups and downs, through good and bad, through glory and despair, have to put up with these people alledging to ‘represent our views” LUST do not represent my views, and never will whilst they disrupt games, disrupt the very players they claim to support, and upset the 75% (and more) of the loyal fans who will be around long after the present board no longer are… mattbb1 does none of their (LUST’s) statement for change appeal to you at all? ie asking Ken Bates to invest in the squad, prior to the ground.. to begin acting with a little more respect and being less hostile towards fans? I think if anything LUST have been very reasoned and calm with Ken Bates. Gary Cooper @mattbb1 LUST say that on the front be we all know they are saying KB F*** OFF! What do you expect, KB backs managers as proven with how he backed Blackwell and SG in league 1. KB has provided Leeds with a substantial wage budget as proven by NW comments about the wage budget. KB is right to invest in the stadia as it brings in corporate streams of revenue and it makes the club more saleable as proven by CFC Abramovich only bought CFC as he was flying over Stamford Bridge on route to spurs, he loved the stadium instead of buying Spurs as planned he bought CFC, KB is a client of Keith Harris who made the takeovers of CFC, AVFC, LFC to name a few, Leeds dans should be happy to have KB at the helm, it annoys me that there is so much cynicism by a minority of people. RafaLUFC @Gary Cooper @mattbb1 We don’t own the stadium. We’re increasing the value of a property we do not own. We’re sick of everything being shrouded in mystery by a man who is known to put non-footballing affairs before footballing affairs at a football club. The club also refuses to provide any decent level of customer service. We’re paying extortionate prices to watch crap. Bates constant defence of the loan system is proof enough that he believes in it, despite 90% of the loanees we get turning out to be a waste of time, money and points. The time and points don’t matter to bates as long as he’s cheap. That wage budget might be big, but how much of it is due to the sales of key players? Howson and Gradel, even throw Schmeichel in there if you want even though I don’t rate him. How big do you think Warnock will think the budget is when he wants to buy a player and the fee is taken out of the wage budget? All these points are pretty much irrelevant anyway when you consider that even if the wage budget is big compared to other clubs in the championship (there’s plenty of evidence to suggest it’s not, especially when you consider it covers fees), the numbers don’t add up. We’ve been debt free for 3.5 years, sold £15 million worth of players, turning over at least £14 million a season in ticket sales alone (that’s at least £49 million in the last 3.5 years), fucks knows how much in merchandise and TV money, corporate events and whatever other income we’ve got, and it all vanishes into thin air. I find it hard to believe with the amount of money the club has been making, there’s not been enough to buy back the stadium. In fact, there has been enough, the council were ready to give us a loan to buy it back until the whole ownership problem came into light. The stupid mysterious anonymous ownership system that can’t possibly have a use other than to hide dodgy dealings. It’s just impossible to consider that the amount of money the club makes, the percentage of that that is spent on wages, that the player sales of key players time and time again is just about covering our expenditure. It just doesn’t add up. I want someone who knows how to run a business in an honest fashion, someone who I can trust further than I can throw them. As for the LUST ban, it’s for no reason other than expressing an opinion that doesn’t agree with bates’. The march just gave them an excuse that they can cover up with “health and safety”, which they didn’t even use as their reason. Their reason was “we are exercising our right to only sell tickets to those we want to”. That was the official reason. Bates has a personal vendetta against LUST despite LUST only ever showing a peaceful desire to express their opinions on the running of the club. I’ve not seen LUST do anything unprofessional. Due to the nature of a march you are always going to get tagalongs that are a bit more aggressive, doesn’t mean their actions are the fault of the organisers. Gary Cooper @RafaLUFC @mattbb1 the fact is that Leeds have still been paying CVA payments all though you are correct to say that in such Leeds is debt free what you should also be aware of is that the club is still making payments in rule to the CVA agreement. It is of the opinion that everyone who I speak to who are Leeds fans that believe LUST have gone about there agenda in completely the wrong way, it is clear that LUST have a vendetta against Bates, unfortunately if you organise something you are responsible for everyone’s actions under the joint enterprise laws, therefore if they had of been a riot, the LUST board would have been responsible, and would have faced criminal proceedings. Regarding the bates defence of the loan system the fact is under NW this will not be the case we know that as he has stated that, and if you watched the QPR documentary you will know that NW doesn’t work the loan market, SG is a fan of the loan market! mattbb1 @Gary Cooper @mattbb1 so why doesnt our chairman actually engage with those who have differing opinions? LUST came out and said well done on the appointment of NW and that they were preparared to give KB a chance – his immediate response to ban the board from attedning away games? doesnt sound conciliatory to me. RafaLUFC @mattbb1 @Gary Cooper This is exactly my point. The board just don’t want to listen to anyone who has a different opinion. There’s this constant stream of crap that essentially says “no one knows how to run a business properly except us”, then they say we can only afford this that and the other, blah blah, then never offer any proof. The opacity of the finances alone is enough to question whether or not the board is right for the club. They defend this policy with “we do our business in private”, the reasons for which are completely unknown, they keep a level of hush that is so completely unnecessary. “We don’t want other clubs to know what we’re doing”, not like they give a shit, we never do anything that’s going to threaten their league campaigns. There’s no smoke without fire and they are definitely covering up a lot of stuff that if we were to know about it we’d probably be proven right that money is being syphoned out of the club. Gary Cooper @RafaLUFC @mattbb1 If you attending club members meetings you would know that the club do in fact attend people opinions whether they are in total disagreement partial disagreement or support of the club. The fact is LUST have gone about it’s agenda in the wrong way. mattbb1 @Gary Cooper @RafaLUFC @mattbb1 and how should they have approached matters? please tell.. Gary Cooper @mattbb1 @RafaLUFC I believe that you are being facetious now! If you are telling me that you don’t really know how they should have approached things here is the problem that TSS and LUST hold. mattbb1 no, we dont have a clue how to express ourselves, if only we had your innate wisdom, and yes i am being sarcastic, in case it escaped you. If only we had your sound grasp of figures, and understood `the truth’. RafaLUFC @Gary Cooper @RafaLUFC @mattbb1 Why then are all the regional members clubs pledging their support to LUST? To date LUST have only had one RMC say they don’t want to be associated with them, the rest are getting on board, many are actively going out of their way to pledge their support to LUST. Why, if the club are listening to the fans via the RMCs, would those RMCs then go out of their way to support LUST, who are increasingly against the current regime? The truth is the club don’t want to listen to the fans, they want to run things their way and if the fans don’t like it, tough shit. It’s a terrible business model that’s clearly not working, scaring away fans, losing a generation of young fans and essentially killing the club. mikelufcbastardbatesout Here is a typical example for checking and banning the IP address as he is here to no good, and not at all a fan of Leeds United. Fuck off smurf arse licker. mattbb1 @mikelufcbastardbatesout couldnt agree more mike. RafaLUFC yet people like you who are happy to sit back with a “what will be will be” attitude will see that the current board remain in power for far longer. You’d rather all this protesting stopped and everyone just got behind the team? Then bates wins. Congratulations, you’ve just enabled a man to turn a once great club into a money making machine that cares little for the footballing side of things. By all means continue to go to matches. But you have no right to complain about others disrupting those matches when those others are unhappy with the way the club is being run. This “rise above it” attitude is wrong. If you just sit back and let people do whatever they want to do just to save yourself the hassle, then you are enabling people in behaving poorly. Stand up to people. Please, for the good of everyone at Leeds United. TimPM @RafaLUFC I’d not disagree with much of what you said, but sitting back isn’t necessarily just accepting fate. As a whole, we’ve scared Bates. We’ve been loud, organized, and we’ve made good points. He’s now appointed a manager who doesn’t come cheap and already looks streets ahead of Simon Grayson who wasn’t poor himself. I reckon we can afford to see who NW gets in in the summer. After all, we’ve been spending high on facilities recently and if we stop spending on that for a year or two we can afford significant rise in player spending. Chareose @TimPM @RafaLUFC yes but the people who “scared bates” arnt the ones sitting back letting it happen either. If you take no action then nothing will happen RafaLUFC @TimPM Don’t believe that’ll happen for a second. you’re forgetting we’re getting the exact same treatment Chelsea got before Roman Abrahmovic came in. bates shows no regard whatsoever for the football side of things, instead using the loyalty of fans to pay for his stupid pointless building projects Gary Cooper @Leeds4alongtime I agree with you 100% LUST are the minority of Leeds fans yet they claim to be representing all Leeds fans why is that acceptable, they are cause of the negativity at ER, a crowd is there to assist the team when they need it yet LUST do the opposite! RafaLUFC @Gary Cooper @Leeds4alongtime Why should the club then claim to represent the fans when they outright refuse to listen to any of them? AD The strangest thing to me is Ken Bates, & Shaun Harvey seem to believe they are Leeds United, they believe they are what the fans are buying into, & the ones the fans want success for. Obviously this is deluded and proposterous, we aren’t yes men. We all supported Leeds pre-bates & we will post-bates regime. A fan is simply someone who supports the team & wants success for their club. Wether a season ticket holder or an individual who buys a shirt every other season & reads the online posts. United, all fans want is success! & fans shouldn’t be a judged on there fan hood based on attendance, like Bates has of late, when we have such an international following especially! Some people work at weekends or can ill afford to pay prices like Leeds fans are expected, I ask are they less passionate about Leeds than anyone else. The attendance at Elland Road doesn’t show fans walking away from there club. It’s directly corresponding to Bates. If Bates does read these. Get a clue. We wear the shirt for ourselves not for you. Stop taking for granted are support & money & start listening to fans, cuz We Are Leeds, not you! Marching on Together BucharestBob I am worried… Ken Bates is obviously a shape shifting lizard and I’ve heard a rumour that David Icke is to be our new goal keeping coach… AndyFROST CAN EVERYONE CALM DOWN, STEP BACK AND BE A BIT MORE RATIONAL AND A BIT MORE BALANCED. Otherwise your head is going to melt. Tim Campbell Nice one Warnock!! I’m really warming to the guy!! Firstly he says what most of us punters were thinking after that Brilliant but losing performance to the Saints ‘I don’t know how you f##king won that’ (to Nigel Adkins) – then best of all he laying it all on the line to Mr Chairman in his comments in the YEP stated that he needs heavily backed if promotion is to be acheived. GO GET ‘EM COLIN!! oldschoolbaby Two things Bates does not exist in a bubble. He has a wife and family. An accountant. Access to financial advice. Too many people assume all his retirement funds are tied up in Leeds United and that financial pressure from fans can cripple him. The purchase of a football club as a retirement pot would not only be monstrously stupid but it would fly in the face of all accepted individual assett management strategies. If Bates went to see Max Clifford he would be offered a hundred cheap, easy tricks of the trade for manipulating public opinion in his favour before the suggestion of propoganda on social media sites arose Gary Cooper Firstly it is right that players twitter accounts are being monitored, would you really condone them not to be monitored? Given recent fines handed out by the F.A for player remarks it makes absolute sense not to bring negative media attention surrounding player comments. Secondly what Ken said is that people observed the LUST march he never said he had people partaking in the March. Thirdly the actions of LUST rightly meant that certain member purchasing rights where taken away, the fact is that LUST promoted unauthorised protests both inside and outside of ER, this was a public order, public safety risk that needed to be controlled. I have witnessed heated exchanges between LUST supporters (who are in the minority) and fans that are apposed to LUST. Do you really believe that KB bans people because they have an opinion that is opposed to him? You suggested that anyone who has an opinion risks prejudicial action, why is the clubs decision prejudicial, they have acted within regulations on the grounds of public safety. Fourthly do you think that NW would come to Leeds United to manager us if KB as you suggested that KB is “paranoia, insecurity and a hunger to wholly control. In short a manic desire to blot out the opposition” I personally doubt it, BTW TSS sounds paranoid blocking people from the site and questioning whether KB is having this site monitored. TimPM @Gary Cooper Where did he say this, “Gary”? I’m genuinely interested. Gary Cooper @TimPM In a board meeting! TimPM @Gary Cooper @TimPM Should’ve clarified: where did NW say he was surprised how high the wage budget was? mattbb1 were you in the meeting Gary? Gary Cooper @mattbb1 The LUFC board meeting Gary Cooper @TimPM in his first interview on on LUTV mattbb1 @Gary Cooper @mattbb1 so you’re a board member? TimPM @mattbb1 @Gary Cooper Correction Matt, “so you want everybody to think you’re a board member?” Sad lonely bloke somewhere with nothing better to do. Saw that certain people (not looking at you Matt! :D) thought Ken was browsing the site and decided to get some attention by making it look like Ken had stolen Gary’s identity. mattbb1 and we’re totally board to tears of him, good riddance mr cooper. Gary Cooper NW has already stated that he has seen the wage budget and he was shocked at how big it was. What more do you really want, at a time when Leeds fans should be supporting LUFC LUST and TSS are obsessed with causing more infighting and negativity surrounding Leeds! Why Is that, imo it is because you crave the attention, you have a desire for attention and by Leeds being successful how much attention do you get, 4 years old this site is you should have been shouting under Ridsdale, under Krasner, under McKenzie but you didn’t, your picking at fight with the wrong Chairman at the wrong time, NW said he wants the fans behind the team you guys have a funny way of showing that! Gary Cooper Just read further down that TSS stated they had 80,000 unique hits to this site last month oh how I would like to see this evidenced, 80,000 unique hits yet I only see the same people posting comments!! TimPM @Gary Cooper He already posted a shot a while back of 100k unique visits. I read YP daily but I never comment there. I’ve yet to see a website that even the majority of readers comment on… Gary Cooper @TimPM I saw that as well, the problem is it didn’t show that this site received 80,000 UNIQUE hits let alone 100,000 unique hits as you are suggesting! Let again I don’t expect anything would be independently substantiated from this site! Chareose @Gary Cooper @TimPM who gives a monkeys how many unique visitors this site has……..how about back to the discussion at hand ?? Also how can you expect any credibility with a fake profile name………pathetic Gary Cooper @Chareose @TimPM It’s just proof that this site is all about BS and has no substance, no facts, no evidence to any of its posts or comments!! RafaLUFC @Gary Cooper @Chareose @TimPM Hi Ken, I’ll have the variety bucket please mattbb1 so some days down the line here i sit reading these responses. And lo and behold you are there, the Bates Apologists, and one of you (perhaps) has the same name as the chairman of LUST?! wow what a coincidence! i’ve seen a veiled threat about the law of enterprise and that anyone joining LUST or agreeing with them would be complicit were there to be a public disorder. Comments to the effect that it is paranoia that the club review the web, so effectively trying to discredit this webiste and the authori of this piece. My conclusion has to be that yes – there is a beard under the bed – and it didnt take much flushing out. Gary Cooper @mattbb1 yet again you have manipulated the truth what I said was the board of LUST would be responsible for any criminal activity that took place under the joint enterprise law, LUST organised unauthorised protests inside and outside of ER, they also organised protests away from ER at away games. LUST have a responsibility for the arrangement of authorised protests they didn’t get this, when you arrange a protest the people who arrange it (in this case the LUST board) have a responsibility to steward the protests and they haven’t. This site is definitely getting paranoia to believe that the club would bother to monitor this site! why would they bother? do you evidence anything? do you have substance to any posts? do you accept that LUST and TSS are in the minority of fans? the answer to all is no which clearly shows that authors are deluded to say the least. TSS stated that this site got 80,000 unique hits last month I requested that be evidenced I’m still waiting, do you really believe that people will believe 80,000 unique people came to this site in a month? I would like to advise you that the clubs official site gets over 5million hits a month. mattbb1 @Gary Cooper @mattbb1 thats right, i’m a master manipulator.. please. have you seen the data to provide that other than the figure quoted on the official website? when they say however many million hits thats how many times its reviewed, not how many contributions are made. If TSS says there are 80,000 visitors thats different to 80,000 contributors. LUST did have stewards on their march and i understand their statements were clear on that, they were also visible on the march, and were accompanied by the police. i’m not sure what you mena by `unauthorised’ by the way? i cant think of many protests that are sanctioned by the people being protested against? one for LUST (and you as their chairperson Gary) to comment on but i seem to recall their statements being very clear on public order, behaviour and so forth. Methinks you doth protest too much. whats upsetting you? Gary Cooper @mattbb1 who said anything about the March?? not me not in any of my posts! Did LUST have authorisation for protesting in the ground or outside the ground? did LUST have stewards whilst arranging and participating in protests inside and outside the ground? no they didn’t for either. TSS said that there was 80,000 unique visitors and like I said prove it have some substance, as for Leeds official site I don’t go on what I’m told by someone I do my own research look at google’s own data. That’s the problem with people on this site they are like sheep they believe what they are spoon fed, does that mean bates is right to call them morons? Well the definition of a moron is “A stupid person; a dolt, B a person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally lacking in communication and social skills which does not enable them to make decisions, who is able to work under supervision” (sic) Well if the cap fits wear it! Chareose @Gary Cooper @mattbb1 Lets assume your speaking on behalf of our badly run club…….why do the fans that partake in this blog have to prove anything when quite obviously the people running the club ( one in particular) have consistently lied and manipulated information….? Im sure an article was posted at some point bullet pointing out all the mis-information given to the fans……….. how many times have we been told we arnt selling players but then go on and sell them ? how many times have we been promised new players only to be dissapointed ? Why portray us as spending highly on wages and player transfers when quite obviously we dont ? Its not rocket science is it………a club that was averaging 30k fans last season and with fans paying some of the highest ticket prices outside the top 4 in the PREMIERSHIP cant afford a bean, wouldnt anybody find that a bit odd ? and please dont start spouting on about the size of our squad …..granted its big but it doesnt explain the gaping holes in our finances…. With regards to Bates misinformation and hypocrasies, perhaps when I have a spare few days I could track through all of Ken Bates radio broadcasts and map out all the discrapancies in what he said in comparison to what actually happened….. I could release it as a new 900 page book by the same publisher as the legendary “Coleman Balls” Cheers Fake Gary Gary Cooper @Chareose @mattbb1 as I have stated several times on this site Bates will back any manager he believes in as proven by his financial support of Blackwell and then his financial support of SG in League 1, Bates rightly had no confidence in SG and was looking to be proven wrong, however as I suspected he will be proven right! Do you think that Bates and NW didn’t discuss wage budget transfer fees before he took the job, if you do not believe that conversation took place then you don’t know NW. At QPR he spent £3.5 million on 9 players that secured them promotion he will get more than that at Leeds that I can assure. Tim Campbell @Gary Cooper @Chareose @mattbb1 You assure us Mr Cooper, but on what grounds can you make such bold assertions! I would still love to know why millions upon millions of our pounds were pumped into a ground we did not own and only rented. Now when the council was offering a deal to buy back the ground and bates flatly refused this offer, alarm bells start ringing! Mark my words when a proper investigation has been made into the ownership of Leeds United and all financial dealings related to LUFC, Bates will be hung out to dry! Tim Campbell Gary Cooper? More like Tommy Cooper pal. You’re a joke and the only reason you are on this site is to draw attention to yourself, a bit like your hero Kenneth Bates esquire. Gary Cooper @Tim Campbell if I wanted to draw attention to myself I would do it on another platform! Do you think this site with its small following of deluded people is who opinions are in the minority is who I’d really want to draw attention from? Really do you? TimPM @Gary Cooper @Tim “Do you think this site with its small following of deluded people is who opinions are in the minority is who I’d really want to draw attention from?” Keep off the drink, mate. mattbb1 tim, dont encourage gareth, he’ll bore you to tears. Tim Campbell @mattbb1 yeah Matt I know you’re right but he is a master angler and when that worm is on the end of the line, its hard not to bite. Talking about worms you opened a whole can of them on this subject Matt. We’re even getting old greybeard coming on to comment incognito mattbb1 yes i think youre right tim. if it is ken fair play to him for talking to us for once.