When Egos Collide: Ken Bates Meets Neil Warnock

Queens Park Rangers v Middlesbrough - npower Championship

After The Scratching Shed reported on a sharp drop in the odds of Neil Warnock becoming next Leeds United manager yesterday, there was a massive scramble as people tried to figure out what had caused such a significant, and almost instantaneous change.

We were contacted by a couple of usually “in the know” types, who themselves seemed to have been caught off-guard by the events, asking if we had any explanation but all we’d done was stumble across the odds as they were free-falling. This was so out-of-the-blue that no one had tweeted, emailed or posted on the site itself to point it out to us – which in itself, is extremely unusual.

Within a couple of hours, the general rumours of sightings at Thorp Arch, Elland Road and various Leeds city centre hotels started doing the rounds, but there was no concrete proof whatsoever. The bookies themselves explained that the change was as a result of “mega money” being placed on Warnock, but even they seemed unsure as to the actual reasoning behind it.

All this left for mere speculation. Working with the facts we had, the only reasonable theory was that someone had inside knowledge or that Warnock’s comments that he wanted “one more promotion” to break the record had resulted in a flurry of bets. Considering how far the odds had fallen, and how quickly it had all happened, the latter was somewhat hard to believe. After all, Keith Curle – one of Warnock’s backroom staff – was spotted at Elland Road last week and that didn’t have the slightest effect on the odds – a flurry of £10 bets from ill-informed fans working on speculation makes little difference.

Neil Warnock meeting with Ken Bates and Shaun Harvey

It wasn’t until around 11pm last night that things became clear, when The Sun and The Daily Mail both posted pictures of Neil Warnock meeting with Ken Bates and Shaun Harvey at Casino Square in Monaco. By this point, odds had dropped as low as 1/10 with some bookmakers closing the market completely.

Knowing that Neil Warnock is the man Ken Bates wants led many fans to conclude it’s a nailed on certainty, and it most probably is. However, it’s worth considering that Neil Warnock holds all the aces in this game. He’ll have other offers between now and next season, this isn’t a case of “we’re Leeds United, we get who we want” as Ken Bates would have you believe.

Leeds will have to convince Warnock that his record-breaking 8th promotion dreams are achievable at Elland Road and that may be easier said than done.

The problem is, Ken Bates will have a hard time convincing Neil Warnock that a £12.5m player budget – that he seems intent on cutting – is enough to battle it out with the big boys in the Championship. I sincerely doubt Warnock will be at all willing to work with the current player recruitment setup of Gwyn Williams finding the “talent” and Shaun Harvey dealing (or failing to deal) with contracts, and then there’s the clubs policy of selling key players – assurances that he can keep the likes of Aidy White and Robert Snodgrass will no doubt be sought.

This isn’t the Leeds United it once was. Where once you heard the name and pictured a club with huge resources, able to take their pick of players and retain the best of the ones they had without issue, we’re now more of an ‘also ran’, here to make the numbers up and where players are only valued as saleable commodities.

It’s certainly a challenging situation, and to give Warnock his dues, he’s never shied away from one, but there will be easier jobs out there and if this is to be his final bow, then I wouldn’t blame him for taking an easier role elsewhere.

Author

TSS

Founder and editor of The Scratching Shed, born locally and have followed Leeds United all my life from the dizzying heights of Europe, to the dark depths of League One. Prone to the occasional Bates rant.

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Vancouver Leeds 5 pts

I'm absolutely over the moon with NW's appointment. Similar attributes to M.O'N & M.Mc., enthusiastic, knows the game inside out AND takes no prisoners..........are you watching Lorimer & co ? Finally, after seven years of pure hell,could this be the first small steps to a UNITED Leeds.???!! You never know, but hopefully the old " Trans World Airline Technician" Lucifer himself may soon be exorcised from our beloved club. MOT

pete58 11 pts

Vancouver Leeds Bonjour, the sun has risen in Vancouver,

feels like a better day does it not?

henrymouni 34 pts

pete58Vancouver Leeds

Oui, grand ami!

Vancouver Leeds 5 pts

henrymounipete58

Do you lads live here in Vancouver ? If so, how could i get in touch with you . I feel awkward about using TSS's site as a medium. By the way TSS always a thoroughly interesting and enjoyable read. The best site for miles......keep it up, me ol mucker

pete58 11 pts

Vancouver Leedshenrymouni Oh dear ,sorry no i don't, i was just overcome by a spirit of fraternite- agree about tss though.

henrymouni 34 pts

Vancouver Leedspete58

No, Lancashire.

Vancouver Leeds 5 pts

pete58

3 rainbows here , just like the pot of "goals" at ER.............happy days!!

pete58 11 pts

Vancouver Leeds MOT-We are LEEDS

Bluesman 25 pts

What is the best for Leeds United right now? It has to be the appointment of Neil Warnock!!! Never been a fan of Papa Smurf, because of the sale of good players and the lack of investment in the squad, but this appointment is good news for a change. Warnock has got my vote of confidence. If he can't do it with the current squad this season he will make it happen next . Some people are never satisfied!! If you are not careful I threaten to say something nice about Smurf!

I reckon the people that think that Neil Warnock will get Leeds promoted this season, are the same people that believe that Harry Redknapp will invigorate England and lead us to Euro2012 success.

I'm happy for those who are pleased with Colin Wanker's appointment, but I'm going to sit quietly in the corner and sulk and blow raspberries : )

number1inyorkshire 110 pts

you cant sit quietly and blow raspberries.

he is not everyone,s cup of t but he is the best manager available rioght now for leeds .

just a question colin who would you have picked???

TimPM 52 pts

At least you're taking it well Colin. That's the mark of a man :-D

hee hee, I am liking this. I've never been part of this ridiculous anti-Bates brigade. I presume this appointment is a reflection of Bates' oft-reported lack of vision, and of his desire to keep us in the second division, is it?. I seem to remember the conspiracy theorists suggesting he wanted us to stay there for another season because of some mysterious financial reward if that happened. The prononents of that nonsense must feel really stupid now. Now can you all get back to supporting the team like the rest of us?

Why do Bates apologists always make out that those opposed to his leadership are anti-LUFC? Get yourself to an away game, you won't find a single like-minded individual, they all hate him. It's the passive fans who haven't got a clue and only hear his weekly diatribes that back him.

I am anti-Bates for the record, but I never believed for a second he didn't want us promoted. That is the opinion of a small minority of idiots who no doubt spend their time chasing UFO's.

why do the anti-Bates brigade make out that those with an independent opinion are Bates apologists? As an active fan I only hear this nonsensical diatribe on these forums. You know, I always thought it was the middle-class, home counties scum from Old Surrey across the pennines that played fantasy football chairman while us football fans supported the team. It seems I'm wrong. Maybe it's the Johnnie-cum-latelies who started supporting the team in the Ridsdale era who are imitating the Essex boys with their petit-bourgeios anti-American mentality. FC United of Leeds, anyone? Cor blimey geeza, it's yer United, innit? Darn wiv de manijmant. get yer check book art and buy a team, loadsamoney, let's get into debt and kill the club again...

dess 10 pts

That's very amusing. Independent lol@RoystonLUFC

CraigSweaton 19 pts

@RoystonLUFC. Of course he wants us promoted but not at the expense of buying players. I'm sure he does want us promoted so that when our threadbare team gets bummed every week, and we get relegated he can rake in the parachute payments. Open your eyes man!

Tyler75 93 pts

It looks like Kenny's serious about promotion - could it be that all this time he's had a master plan up his sleeve or has he folded under pressure and finally realised he has to fill those new corporate facilities he's built ? Although not my first choice, all in all I'm happy with Warnock on a contract until the end of the 2012/13 season because he's not the man to lead us long-term into a bright new future. Bit for now we should get behind him because he'll get us up, it won't be pretty but it will be effective. Also look forward to seeing Derry back at ER -

Sgt Warnock's Barmy Army !

mattbb1 92 pts

well you hope so dont you, if he does change his ways then brilliant, but that remains to be seen. Warnock does deserve our support, especially if he does get us out of this sh1t of a division.

TimPM 52 pts

Apart from the fact that Warnock was head and shoulders above all other applicants (though MM wouldn't have been the end of the world), the best part is Ken's paying him largely in bonuses.

Warnock is a great manager and because of that he won't come cheap. If we get promotion, though, the rewards will be so great that we can afford those bonuses he's looking for.

This is a man with huge experience at getting clubs promoted. People frankly harp on about his win ratios but they forget this is a man who gets teams promoted when they shouldn't be, and often consolidates their positions in a league above where it was reasonable for them to expect to be. That takes away from your ratios.

If Bates doesn't back Warnock, we'll know about it, so we can afford to put our trust in the club for a year!

Now, Snoddy would probably make the perfect captain for him I reckon!

Bubionwhite 13 pts

TimPM

Correct TimPM ... best captain in the squad.

Bubionwhite 13 pts

NW would certainly not be my choice and I have posted several comments to that effect ... however, now that it's been confirmed, perhaps the time has come for us ALL to get behind him and the team and see where it leads us. If he can manage to squeeze a bit more effort and commitment out of some very capable players in the squad, keep KB in check and draw a few quid out of his pockets then he can have my support, and hopefully, the majority of fans, unlike MSGREEN who is already writing negative articles.

Col 14 pts

Bubionwhite
I completely agree with you regarding the poor article by MS Green. Articles like this very negative and do nobody any good Everybody is entitled to an opinion but Warnock is the manager, so let's get behind him. his record speaks for itself. What do people want? Would they rather we appoint Neil Redfearn or some other novice?

TimPM 52 pts

Bubionwhite I don't think anybody other than a couple of sycophants pay attention to that pathetic blog TBH.

It's a one-man ego-trip as shown by him spitting his dummy out whenever he hits a hurdle with it. Like anybody disagreeing with him.

NorthEastLoiner 15 pts

Bubionwhite I agree. Warnock wasn't my preference but he's here now and we need to get behind him and support him like we can. What it doesn't mean though is that Bates is off the hook, we still need to get him out and LUST should keep on looking at all the options

mattbb1 92 pts

as kevin blackwell said on sky sports news - tlak is cheap - bates needs to properly back warnock.

robinhood white 7 pts

warnock,s appointment is the best thing bates has done at the club in my opinion i carnt help but think we still have a chance of the play offs with him calling the shots much has been said or writted about the atmosphere at elland road this season maybe the time has come to unite in the stands and be the extra man on the pitch give warnock and the team our support forget bates and his bandwagon for a while were still in it this season come on leeds mot

number1inyorkshire 110 pts

leeds have appointed i believe 1 of the biggest names in uk football ,it is Warnocks biggest appointment and his biggest challenge .

he will be good for leeds united and i welcome this for what it is ,

we need now to get behind the manager and his new staff and keep pressure on the lot above him .

it is now time for leeds united to make a move to get it back in the top flight if it has any ambition today is the day its starts .

welcome to warnock you are joining a club with a tremendous history with a big past you have to deliver a bigger future .with it comes us the Fans who are loyal and knowledgeable and opinionated we will get behind you and remind you from time to time we are here ,

WIll23 31 pts

The vast majority of sane Leeds fans will support this appointment as the rational one and will get behind him.

Rome was not built in a day as they say and the psychological ruins left behind by Grayson in the squad (based on Lorimer's comments - a viewpoint which anyone with a pair of eyes & brain could agree with) will probably require a lot of Warnock's proven man management skills to repair harmony in the dressing room.

I still think many fans underestimate how bad things were under Grayson, excusing him becasue he was a Leeds fan from Yorkshire, one of our own. But thankfully, Warnock hates us! Thank god for that!

May an ex-player or Leeds fan never grace the managerial hotseat EVER again.

Neil will give us results. Boring 1-0 victories. About time.

number1inyorkshire 110 pts

WIll23 no one could accuse Warnock of been a leeds fan lol .

that is fantastic news for leeds .

he will get leeds up to spite us oh and receive his mega bonus

exiledindevon 5 pts

Please don't say anything nice about chairman Knobcheese. So far today is good........

Bluesman 25 pts

I hope that Warnock gives some of the directors a kick up the arse as well!!!!

number1inyorkshire 110 pts

Bluesman he can start with EX LEGEND and current c#@t LORIMER

Bluesman 25 pts

A good appointment and Leeds fans will hate to love him, but it will happen! Honest, passionate, professional (sometimes), experienced and skillful. He will give his all, I am sure of that! Let's see what he can do. In my view he was the best candidate and the safest and look at all the fun ahead of us! Welcome Neil and Best Wishes! I even want to say something nice about Papa Smurf, but that will have to wait!

number1inyorkshire 110 pts

great for leeds united for a change signed til end of NEXT season but means they can part

ways or sign again to be honest contracts in football are worth ZERO .

ask all the out of work managers and players .

good news for leeds united

exiledindevon 5 pts

Great news.

Two things I don't understand though; why only till the end of the season and why is Redfearn in charge for today's match ?

No doubt chairman knobcheese only wants to do it on the cheap then at the end of the season get rid of Warnock and bring in some unproven ex Chelsea person on the cheap.......

Can't help being a cynic.

number1inyorkshire 110 pts

exiledindevon til the end of next season not this 12/13 season

Dje 101 pts

number1inyorkshireexiledindevon You sure No.1 - I read it as the end of this season and with the option of next season too. But I hope you are right.

number1inyorkshire 110 pts

Djeexiledindevon just checked on official site 2012/13 season til end off. we are in 2011/12 season

Dje 101 pts

exiledindevon Mixed in with the cynic answer to the first question I figure it is because Warnock's short term contract is heavily incentivised to us getting promoted - so that'll be cheap on his wages til then and cheap too if we fail.

It's too short notice to drop Warnock in to manage today. Imagine if he came in and we got beat 3-0. The fans would turn on him before he'd even learnt the players names. I'm glad Redfearn is staying with us and returning to his reserves and acadamy post - as he was doing good there and no need to cut that just because he didn't prosper in the top position.

TimPM 52 pts

Djeexiledindevon Agree with you on dropping Warnock in today. He's there now so the players are going to be as motivated now as in 99% of the matches they've ever played. They're playing for a future at their current club now - and Redfearn knows how the team operates.

It has now been confirmed by the OS - Warnock is the new manager:

http://www.leedsunited.com/news/20120218/club-confirm-warnock-appointment_2247585_2615301?

henrymouni 34 pts

Good news I think!!

Official announcement today!!

He will meet the players before the game!

That will be fun!!

Hope springs eternal!!

henrymouni

You missed an exclamation mark off the end of the middle sentence!!

;-)

henrymouni 34 pts

I'm too excited to concentrate Lee!!! !!!

Dje 101 pts

Bizarre that it is only to the end of the season and heavily incentivised to us getting promotion. Warnock isn't in it for the quick fix money, surely? more the record of promotions. There's the option to extend the contract is BOTH parties agree, but I'd have thought Warnock would have wanted guarantees that he'd be the man still in charge if Leeds did get promoted - considering he has so far a career that shows he has failed to keep teams in the Premiership (which must grate with his ego!).

If he is meeting the players before todays match then I expect a dramatic improvement in our performance - with eleven players all out to impress the 'new gaffer'. It certainly makes it more of an interesting match today.

henrymouni 34 pts

Dje

The sun has just come out Dje!!!

Dje 101 pts

henrymouni It's just nice being able to think about the football on the field once more. I know you'll never convince all Leeds fans that Warnock is one of few relevant candidates open to us, but for 14 matches and considering the backward direction we were heading, it is a worthy gamble.

henrymouni 34 pts

Dje

I am really excited!!

It has been a horrible few weeks (& months) but now we have a driven man. A wild jumping bean on the touchline.

He will bring in some loanees to pull the team together (I hope).

Onward and upward Dje!

"Some--where, over the rainbow........."