The following is a guest contribution written by TimPM. If you’d like to have an article considered for publication here on The Scratching Shed, please use the online form. 

I was a fan of Andy O’Brien when he came to Leeds in October 2010. I still remember that time – I was taking a year out from my own career following an (unconfirmed) nervous breakdown. I say unconfirmed – we all know what a nervous breakdown is and there has been an unspoken understanding around the subject from everyone involved with me.

We’d just been absolutely thrashed by Cardiff, 4-0. The fold had started when a long ball over the top had caught Neill Collins out of position, had been allowed to bounce by Bruce, and hadn’t been collected by Kasper Schmeichel. It was a breath of fresh air, then, when Andy O’Brien was plucked from the Premiership. Apparently coming to regain match fitness, O’Brien had an instant impact. In our next match (away at Scunthorpe), Jonny Howson was given the freedom to attack from midfield and showed his class with a fifteen-minute hattrick. But what we often overlooked, was the excellent debut O’Brien had. Coming straight into the defence for Neill Collins, O’Brien was part of a (more or less) carbon-copy from the Cardiff match. A ball came up, Bruce and Schmeichel failed to deal with it between themselves, but this time a cool Andy O’Brien smashed the ball away from the goal.

After that match, I knew that O’Brien was exactly the tonic for a shaky Leeds defence that had struggled at times with our first faltering steps back in the Championship. O’Brien undoubtedly had class and talent – he’d made hundreds of appearances in the Premiership and rarely been caught out there. Leeds’ faltering steps had nevertheless seen us ploughing headlong up the table, showing undeniable class at times, and we ended up second in December.

Spring wasn’t so kind. The team’s position crumbled, and eventually we ended up agonizingly close to the playoffs, but even missing that. A lot of players had struggled. The criticism of a few of them – O’Brien especially in my memory because I rated him – was at times excruciating when I read it back now. In fact, in one way it was hilarious: half of us derided Bradley Johnson as a defensive midfielder, and he’s now almost an international. If ever there was a better example of why not to listen to fans, it’s probably that.

Then came our struggles at the start of this season. Looking back at the articles from the period leading up to O’Brien refusing to play, they’re as bad.

His last match was 6th November against Leicester. On November 11th TheScratchingShed ran an article in response to rumours that one-time Leeds youngster Michael Woods had retired from football: ‘Bitter Leeds Fans Amused by Woods Retirement’. I’m glad I wasn’t one of those, in fact I was sympathetic for the lad who had taken a jump in his career similar to mine – and seen it not pay off, similar to me. Yet looking back at it I wish I hadn’t written half the comments I had, and talking about the kid like we did was horrendous. After all, we didn’t know him yet we’d all put in our two cents.

Then on November 14th rumours surfaced that Monty Gimpel was being tracked by Arsenal.

“I don’t want to see youngsters played just because they may at some point in the future be good – especially when we’ve so much ground to make up for promotion” I commented, “There’s no reason why he shouldn’t be handy enough for a few bench appearances though? Bruce, O’Brien & Bromby haven’t exactly been fantastic, and Lees has done well with little experience?”

The article poster questioned me labelling Lees inexperienced: he had over a hundred appearances at lower level, but nobody picked up on my obvious generalisation – O’Brien had only made two-three appearances for us so far that season. It’s something you wouldn’t think about when you treat footballers as something completely detached from us, yet over the past week I’ve found out that some members of the playing staff at Elland Road have read blogs and forums. I don’t know who, and I’m not suggesting O’Brien ever has, but almost everybody’s been on the receiving end of stick at TSS, WACCOE, or any of the other outlets of fan opinion online.

My first ever published article was written for this blog; it was the news that Andy O’Brien had refused to play for us and wouldn’t be picked again. It was stylishly written, if I do say so myself!, but it dealt massively in rumours.

Despite a fantastic late comeback at Turf Moor on Saturday, the Leeds camp is still far from settled this season.

November began with the dramatic mental implosion of much maligned stopper Paul Rachubka and threatens to end with an acrimonious exit for Republic of Ireland veteran Andy O’Brien.

O’Brien has had a torrid season managing just two league appearances and a poor performance against former club Bradford. The 32 year old, rumoured to be one of Leeds’ top earners, told Simon Grayson before Leicester City that he would not play for the Whites again. It is thought that O’Brien has been frustrated by a lack of football.

[…]

Rumour has it that O’Brien is trying to fix a move to West Ham, while BBC Sport journalist Jacqui Oatley has taken to Twitter to claim that O’Brien had not refused to play for the club, but the manager, whom he regarded as “his worst ever”.

It definitely wouldn’t look out of place in one of the famously a-moral rags. I’d tried to be sensitive on the Rachubka topic – I felt sorry for the lad, and I didn’t want to add to the criticism, but on reflection that didn’t come out at all. I wrote about the rumours that O’Brien was one of Leeds’ top-paid players, the rumours irresponsibly tweeted by Jaqui Oatley that he had a personal falling out with Grayson. Basically, if I had been writing about people I knew, I’d’ve been something rhyming “bit stiring”.

We’re all ill-informed fans at the end of the day- some more ill-informed than others… We’ve no malice, but I think we often forget that these are real people we discuss. There could be 101 reasons for Andy O’Brien’s worries, but you couldn’t rule out any of our lads browsing the blogs and forums and getting problems. I wrote something, ending my blog, yesterday before this came out. I think it’s something that should be repeated here because I think it’s something we all need to think about:

It has come to my attention over the last few days that parts of the playing side of Leeds are reading the blogs and forums. Inadvertently, a place where I can spout my ill-informed opinion has become a place where me and plenty of others are accidentally offending the very lads we’re wanting to support.

So I’ve decided to stop this blog and not to write for TheScratchingShed again. I write this to inform those who have read my blog – because you deserve to know (even though we probably should have thought) that the people you’re writing about might be able to see every word. I wish I’d known sooner. I honestly never thought a footballer with their brilliant jobs and all that would waste their time reading what fans think. As if we’re ever right about much in the first place? But in this day and age, the only place for football talk seems to be in the pub or on the sofa.

For my part I am honestly sorry for any offence or stress I’ve caused anybody at Leeds.

Reading it back after a day, you can tell it’s heart-felt because the style’s less “gosh got to prove myself” me, and more pre-wide-world 18-year-old me.

The article topic? I had always had an unexplained, nagging guilt over Andy O’Brien. Even though it’d disappear quickly. There was something about the situation where I’d maybe subconsciously realised this might be a man struggling and I’m being pretty harsh.

I’m really glad that Andy O’Brien has come out and sought support. It’s something like 10-20% of people in the country who suffer from these problems, as best as can be guessed by doctors. But so many of us don’t come out about problems like this. It takes a real man to seek support, and in my opinion Andy’s done himself absolutely proud.

We never know who’s reading. And we should back Andy O’Brien to the hilt, just like we would with anybody going through a tough time. But more than that, we should use this example to remind us that anybody could be reading what we write. I’ll repeat, I have no reason to believe Andy read this blog or any of the forums, but just looking back at how we treat players who might read, it’s often not good.

Written by TimPM

  • TSS

    I don’t know that OB would have wanted to come out about this, I just don’t think he was left with much choice. His personal life should be his own business but the club handled the situation badly (understatement) and it became common knowledge – mainly because he had to defend himself from the thousands of fans that would otherwise have turned on him.

  • How would you have handled this tricky situation TSS?

    • TSS

      @Clive Sanderson Depression is something that has affected people close to me so I’d like to think I’d have spotted the signs. But even if I hadn’t, I wouldn’t have fucked up this badly in the first place. When an employee reacts like AOB did, you have to let things calm down a little then sit down and get to the route cause of the problem.

      I’ve always supported SG and don’t know the full ins and outs, but there’s no getting away from the fact this is incredibly poor man management. Seems to me that pride has got in the way. AOB has reached breaking point and lashed out, SG has missed the signs and taken it personally. Grayson was aware of the situation with OB yet still reacted badly. When OB should have been supported and helped, he was scapegoated and abused.

  • banditsteve123

    I for one wish him well and hope all leeds fans give hime a chance after all we dont want another gary speed situation good luck to him

    • WoodyUK

      @banditsteve123 Agreed

  • mattbb1

    this is a thoughtful piece of writing Tim, and i had similar feelings when i heard of O’Briens condition. At the time he refused to play i found the whole thing petulant & not in possession of the facts i did indeed badmouth him tyo anyone who cared to listen. Buit in my defence the handling of matters by the club was dreadful, they hung him out to dry, which no matter how angry you are you dont do in management. They could easily have cooked up a story about a long term injury or family issues. I wonder how Grayson and bates feel now? O Brien said nothing, but those two…

    • WoodyUK

      O’Brien was fit enough to play in the stiffs for months and claim his salary. He comes back when we are absolutely without any options and plays a decent match then refuses to play another. Thinking about it from two angles maybe AOB tried it (and even though he did reasonably well) found the experience overwelming and couldn’t face it again but from SGs perspective if you can do it last week why refuse this week when all I have to call on is kids and I’m desperate to put out a decent team. I must admit at the time I truly believed AOB was upset at being dropped, played on game to put himself in the shop window and then wanted a move away in the transfer window. I expected him to leave on yesterday and was surprised when the statement came out on deadline day (politically I would have witheld the statement for a few day as it did look as if it was only released when there were no offers for him)

  • Tim Campbell

    I do wish andy o’brien all the best; but the way things are going after the result and lack of transfer dealings yesterday there will be many more heading down that road. Again i ask where did the howson money go?

    • mattbb1

      straight into our overdraft caused by the east stand.

  • mattbb1

    it also comes as part of the terrirtory that we in the stands or in our armchairs feel personal criticism towards players is acceptable. How often have any of you called down to Paul Connolly, Jonny Howson, Billy Paynter that they – `are sh1t’ or that Simon Grayson is `incompetent’ you wonder how they feel as individuals.

    • CraigSweaton

      @mattbb1 That’s true but how many times do they get massive applause when they run onto the pitch or clear a ball from a dangerous position? If you’re going to give praise then you’re entitled to give criticism in my opinion mate.

    • TSS

      @mattbb1 Drives me absolutely up the wall when people do it. It’s generally the best players that get it worst as well – Jonny Howson, Robert Snodgrass, Jermaine Beckford… etc… They expect flawless, world-beating displays every game and the more times they impress, the more that’s expected of them. The level of expectation becomes unreachable. It’s a cleverly veiled defence mechanism, similar to what lads (myself included previously) do to avoid getting hurt. The lads find some ridiculous reason to call it off with a lass so that they don’t get hurt, the fans make their excuses early for when the player leaves claiming “he was never that good anyway”. This is what happens when your club lacks ambition – you know the players will leave quickly and instead of getting hurt by them, you pretend you never cared anyway. It’s pretty pathetic but has been going on for years.

      • TimPM

        @TSS @mattbb1 Personally I just expect the best because I grew up watching Vidukes, Kewell & Bowyer lol.

        But I know what you mean…

        • TSS

          @TimPM@mattbb1 I grew up watching Jennifer Aniston, that doesn’t mean I expect my girlfriend to be equally attractive. If Jen is a 10 then I’m happy to settle for a 9/9.5. It’s all about realistic expectations.

        • CraigSweaton

          @TSS Does your other half know that she’s only a 9/9.5?? lol

        • mattbb1

          @TSS @TimPM I’d ensure your girlfriend doesnt read this..

      • WoodyUK

        I think you’re right but having said that of the players that have recently left maybe only Bradley Johnson has had to endure that sort of comment. Nearly everyone was gutted that Beckford left (everyone was aware his goals to attempts ratio was poor as was his ability to bring others into the game but also we all knew he was an out and out gem of a goalscorer). When Casper left we knew he was a fantastic shot stopper with decent distribution but was not great at crosses and not vocal enough. When Johnson left we knew he had a great engine, got around the pitch well and had a great header but also that he put the ball in row Z more often than the opposition net and could be clumsy in the tackle. Mad Max was electric in speed, had great ball control and knew where the goal was but was awfull at tackling and picked up way too many cautions for a winger. Everyone knows Jonny’s strength is as an attacking midefield player and not so great as a defensive midfielder. I still don’t rate Kilkenny but admit he was an intelligent player that could pick out a pass and rarely seemed hurried. You only have to listen to the comments about the talent we have lost in 3 years to know that the Leeds fans know what skills have been sold.

      • CraigSweaton

        @TSS @mattbb1 Alot of people definitely do that but I’m not one of them. The only time I tend to give stick is if a player lacks desire and doesn’t appear to be really trying. I try to excel in everything I do & I suppose I expect the same of others.

  • TSS

    I agree, that was my point. Doesn’t change the fact the club handled it incredibly badly and that OB shouldn’t have been left in the situation.

  • banditsteve123

    It does make you think when we are having a go at players,eeland road is one of the best crowds to play for when things are going well but we are quick to turn on players when it does not go our way.It takes a special player to play for leeds mentaly you have to be strong not all players can handle the preasure.Lots of good players have come to leeds only to crumble with the expectation that is put on them

    • WoodyUK

      Simon Grayson is always very vocal stating the pressures of playing for LUFC. If you are a decent player that wants to play in a large stadium in front of good crowds that are renowned for being vocal then it goes with the turf. I remember in my youth watching Kevin Hird getting barracked nearly every game but credit to him he wasn’t a great player but he always gave 100% even if he was the centre of everyone’s mirth on a match day,

  • banditsteve123

    Thats ellend road not eeland road

  • CraigSweaton

    A good post in my opinion Tim.

    Unfortunately though, when your job is to provide entertainment to the masses, your displays on the pitch are of paramount importance to the people who pay to watch you. I understand that mental health is a complex and sometimes delicate issue but, if you choose a career path that pays you phenomenal sums of money to be in the limelight (& I do consider £6k pw phenomenal), then you realistically need to be able to deal with the criticism that comes with it. Whether that’s by way of not reading it or just laughing it off, or even by trying that bit harder to prove people wrong it’s part and parcel of the career.

    Please don’t think I’m being heartless about this because It’s not my intention, it’s just that by writing this post you may have given us all pause for thought. I too have had experiences with mental health problems and it has affected work and home life but, that doesn’t mean to say that I didn’t deserve some criticism when I performed below par in either of those departments….in fact it helped me gain perspective on the important things in my life.

    I suppose I’m trying to say that rather than refusing to post, why not just try to be more subjective and even minded in future. Lecture done ;)

    • TimPM

      @CraigSweaton I know where you’re coming from. And I can only speak for myself.

      It’s hard to feel sympathy for people with massive cheques. But the money can’t be injected to make the worry go away. A lad like AOB will have spent a lot of his childhood playing football and probably spent a lot more watching it. Then he’ll have spent his teenage life based around the training ground and finally as a young man he’s spending the best years of his life in the stadium performing in front of all these fans who wish they could have his job.

      I could understand if every time a footballer went out there they were scared it’d be the last. You make a mistake, you get dropped, you play the rest of your life in the lower leagues or not at all. Everything post childhood for a professional footballer is based around football – and it’s something he’s got to give up unless he’s a coach or manager when he gets into his mid 30s. I don’t know what O’B was going through, but keeping it strictly to a hypothetical player in my mental position last year, I’d say the precipice faces you the moment you wake up, it’s there when you go to sleep, and it hounds you during the day. A bit of clapping or a slightly bigger pay-cheque doesn’t really come into your thinking in that situation.

      It’s not rational, it’s easy to pick holes in logically. But it’s where a lot of people in all walks of life find themselves. In my case, add a shot of guilt for feeling I’m on the verge of squandering an opportunity tonnes of others would love, in a hypothetical footballer’s case, probably add that same shot…

      • CraigSweaton

        @TimPM It’s not that I don’t feel sympathy for him…I really do! I just think that it’s all part and parcel of the game we all love.

        If anything I would like to see counselling sessions throughout a young footballers formative years, to ensure that they are better equipped to deal with the pressures of a finite playing career which, for most footballers, fails to reach the heady heights of Premiership football.

        I still think that as paying customers we have the right to criticise when it’s due IF, it’s measured and equal to the praise that we heap on them during the better times.

        • TimPM

          @CraigSweaton Yeah, I agree with that. I’d never say we shouldn’t criticise players – we have a right to do that as paying “customers” as the horrible modern term is. But as human beings (and as supporters who want to results to improve) we have to do it in a measured way.

          It was noticeable in the (Chinese?) Olympics that the Cycling team had a sports psychologist ever-present, and they raked the medals in like never before.

          Robbie Rogers wrote in his journal amid a load of other stuff about having a meeting with his “sports psych”. It’s a normal thing in the US, and I think it should be in the UK as well.

        • CraigSweaton

          @TimPM Well it would definitely create a few more jobs Tim…… Balotelli could keep a half dozen busy and Tevez another few! lol

  • WoodyUK

    OK now everyone has got the message we can all feel sympathy for AOB. That sympathy is heartfelt and honest from the majority of people I am 100% sure. I’m guessing a lot of us have either started down that road, travelled that path to a dark and lonely place or know a close friend or relative that has. Coming so shortly after the revelations about Gary Speed we can also surmise (yes guessing when I have no right to) that the final place you end up at can be an extremely troubled place, where common sense is a concept alien to you and irrational thought common place. A lot of mistakes have been made and it is truth that the management at Leeds could have spotted the signs that all was not well with AOB but it is also true that AOB could have spoken in confidence to the management team to explain his depression which is in my opinion as valid a form of illness as any physical aliment. This makes the assumption that he even knew he was suffering depression as many sufferers are in denial that they have a mental health issue. I have a theory that professional footballers (and maybe especially defenders) consider themselves to be hard men too tough to be plagued with what the perceive to be a weakness. I have posted before that AOB would have no issues finding another club as I consider him to be a decent player with a few years left in him. Now that he has accepted he has a problem and is getting help to sort it out and the management team has stated in public they will support him I wish him all the best and hope he slowly but surely starts to rebuild his footballing career and his life.

  • number1inyorkshire

    hindsight is wonderful he was going through a bad time at home ,which triggered his depression he probably hid it from colleagues , he works in a mans world , which is why it means so much for him to come out now with it .

    Dean Windass another one struggling with depression there will be others .

    With all due respect to grayson whats the difference between being down cos you have split with along time partner and cancelled your wedding and depression ,outwardly nothing, on the inside loads

    he would not have known as an untrained professional the difference especially at a time he was leaving his wife and kid ,and in his way getting on with it .

    I felt at the time it was unusual for LUFC to be commenting on internal issues that is where grayson and his management are poor ,it was the same with RACHUBKA and i said so at the time .

    There is media stuff to say and personal stuff to say the 2 should never meet ,the statement on the website yesterday was not much of an help either .

    Footballers will read the papers, many to see if they are in it they crave the fame ,when a player scores he runs to the crowd ,chest out taking the applauds of the adoring masses he will take it all day long he loves it .

    with that comes the opposite me .i do not have to deal with the pressures of the media or social networks in the job i do ,i do have to deal with opinions sites etc ,some are cruel in the comments offered and many sway from the real truth .

    Andy o’brien who we all wish a speedy recovery ,not least cos we need him, had his problems he has been a pro footballer in the top flight long enough for this not to have been the cause of his problems .

    His problems were personal life pressures not work ,the 2 mix of course but they can be separate .

    so ,Tim thinking you and others and football blogs have reduced AOB to depression are probably wide of the mark but i understand your thoughts

    Did A O B get much stick on here or anywhere else over his football no i do not think so ,he did when he refused to wear the shirt ,we now no why , which with hindsight was wrong .but what can we expect .

    i could go on all day about depression and related illness I worked as R M N in the mental health sector of the NHS for 12 years

    what matters now we know ,he will be embraced by the leeds fans ,there will be more come out and that is probably the pheonix from the fire rising from the sad death of our very own GARY SPEED

    • TimPM

      @number1inyorkshire As I said (3 times) in my post: I have no reason to believe that blogs caused his problems.

      But (as I said) it gives us a timely reminder that some of those we’re criticising harshly could. And we have a responsibility to be measured in our criticism.

  • banditsteve123

    I think my brain and fingers are not working together

  • In criticising Grayson and Bates I assume they must have been fully aware of OB’s depression? Some people seem quick to criticise the management but surely that is only valid criticism if the management were aware of the issue rather than being aware that a player has said he never wants to play for Leeds again. Until Gary Speed took his life I would never had thought that depression could happen to a well paid person doing a job that we could only dream of doing. Unless you know the management were aware of the real issue I don’t think you should use this forum subject as yet another way to have a go at the management.

    • number1inyorkshire

      @Clive Sanderson he probably hid it from work colleague like i said he plays in a mans game ..???..

      They will not have known is my guess at 1st O’brien will not have known .

      its only through ,help counselling you become aware .

  • TimPM

    @TSS @mattbb1 I agree Irving08, though I’d say there is also a reasoned criticism of Bates and that’s the one that’s come under the harshest and most concerted criticism online and that’s yielded the greatest response from Board-related pundits on YEP and from the OS.

    Nigel Martyn is even criticising the running of the club. He’s not taking part in mob rule!

  • TimPM

    @TSS @mattbb1 And, in fact, add to that list Brendan Ormsby, Brian Deane, Eddie Gray, Lee Dixon (though I misconstrued his comments last year) and a few others who evade my memory, to varying extents.

  • number1inyorkshire

    GRAYSON HAS BEEN SACKED WITH HIS STAFF

  • number1inyorkshire

    WOULD I LIE TO YOU IRVING COURSE ITS TRUE

  • CraigSweaton

    @TimPM @TSS @mattbb1 The trouble is, it only becomes a serious concern for someone like Bates when lots (a mob) of supporters are participating, otherwise it’s a “few morons and dissidents”.

    Protests are only ever effective if sufficient numbers take part.

  • WoodyUK

    Why am I left completely unsurprised. Transfer window slams shut and Bates will bring in a new manager with no ability to get in the players he wants therefore doesn’t have to justify lack of spending. Laughable. Hope SG gets a club where the chairman will back him with cash and doesn’t demand the impossible “make me a silk purse from a sow’s ear Simon or walk the plank”, any problems between AOB and SG have gone away as if by magic as have my aspirations of anything from this season or in fact any season soon. Hopeless shambles of a club, if he was going to do it Bates should have done it a month ago.

    • Tyler75

      ….but its our ‘Hopeless Shambles of a club’ !!

  • WoodyUK

    Curbishley proved he could manage on limited funds at Charlton and promoted youth through his system – good shout.

    • number1inyorkshire

      @WoodyUK it will not be curbishley ,too much money ,,Bates network says Di matteo .

      A man under pressure is mick Mcarthy at wolves .fans shouting for him yesterday to be sacked .Downside he is another leeds fan

      • Tyler75

        @number1inyorkshire @WoodyUK Di Matteo would definitely be my choice – instant respect from players and track record of promotion to Premiership. He was unlucky to get the push from WBA and with the style of attacking, passing football that he would get us playing would have chance of staying up if promoted. However this is a pipedream as its bound to be Warnock – at least Colin and Bates would be able to bond over their mutual and previously declared hatred of Leeds Utd.

        Love Leeds, Hate Bates with a passion !

      • mattbb1

        @number1inyorkshire @WoodyUK i hate bates and all his BS more than ever. With proper support grayson would have done a better job, and while he might not have cut it in the top flight, he can hardly be blamed for bates total lack of ambition. Selling Howson, Gradel, Johnson, Beckford… really what did he expect. He is an utter disgrace, poison to our city and team.

      • Chareose

        @Tyler75 @number1inyorkshire @WoodyUK

        Di Mattero ?? hed be another Wise, inat leeds for a short stay with no intention of hanging around………..no Leeds need someone more committed

  • number1inyorkshire

    now we know at least why Bates give him no money to spend on transfers in January ..

    • Tyler75

      …. and also why he sacked him after the transfer window has closed – no demands for money for players from the new Manager.

      • WoodyUK

        Worse than that. The compensation for Grayson, Miller and Snodin will effect the ‘war chest’ for the end of this season as well. If you’re looking at managers of the calibre and track record of Warnock, Curbishley or McCarthy (and the back room staff they bring in) then I would assume that all of these would probably demand higher salaries than SG (but hey ho it’s wrong to make assumptions). On reflection though possibly a new manager can come in and get players like Forsell, Bruce, Bechhio, Connolly, Bromby and O’Brien fired up and re-integrated to make a positive impact till the end of the season. Feel sorry for the likes of Smith, Delph and Townsend to come in and then see the manager that had confidence in them get sacked.

        • WIll23

          @WoodyUK No need to feel sorry for the new kids. Grayson must have lost alot of respect from his squad after throwing his toys out of the pram.

          A decent manager who can make players better, not worse, will be a godsend.

        • Chareose

          @WoodyUK

          Bates has got 22 million from the sales of our players over the last few years so im sure he can afford a bit of pocket changed for poor old Larry

        • WIll23

          @Chareose @WoodyUK The club showed an operating loss in the 2010 accounts. The money from player sales did enough to recoup those losses.

          Whether Bates is extracting money from the LUFC company via the rental charges *is* unknown and there is no evidence to support such an assertion.

      • number1inyorkshire

        @Tyler75 thats true or extra money for the new chap to have a real go next season ,the season that has no extra payments to pay ,£5 million if we go up too early .remember that runs out this season ..

        • Chareose

          @number1inyorkshire @Tyler75

          oooh dear “atleast that explains why Bates didnt give him any money” ……..dont make excuses for Ken Bates lack of investment in the team or we will be under his yoke for decades !!!!!! Ken bates didnt give Simon Grayson any money because thats EXACTLY what hes done over the last 4-5 years…………… Grayson had his faults but most of our problems are caused by the ownership of our club…please please do not fall for the PR line that Bates has laid blaming everything on his manager…..

          – Lack of investment in the team

          – Extortionate ticket prices for championship football

          – Use of fans money as funding for Bates property developments

          – The sale of 20 to 25 million pounds worth of leeds players, mostly young players that would have got us promoted if they had been kept

          – constant lies, manipulation and propaganda alienates the fans

          – Leeds taken into Administration and relegated under Ken Bates ownership, the league, HMRC and everyone shafted by Ken Bates

          – Final stage, the fans start to protest at games

          – Bad atmosphere at Elland Road

          – The players react to the atmosphere and poor wage set up, they can see whats happening far better than we can as they all start to run down contracts and look for pastures new

          – Team start falling to peaces on the pitch…… Nothing Grayson can do at this stage (howson sold) fans are suicidal and the players really dont want to be there (does delph really know what hes getting into ?)

          – Grayson is sacked (yes it was right to do this but HE IS A SCAPE GOAT FOR THE BIGGER ISSUES – see above)

  • number1inyorkshire

    matthew i agree with that and i know what you and others are saying to a degree is true .

    Sadly though Matthew it is the sad fact that Grayson was not good enough to manage the club ,it was too big for him and with due respect to him he should never have been given the job ..

    • WIll23

      @number1inyorkshire Grayson spending more money would be like letting an alcoholic have access to a free bar.

      Grayson’s transfer record was a disgrace.

    • Chareose

      @WIll23 @number1inyorkshire

      If Bates didnt trust Grayson with money as you so conveniently suggest (rather than being a tight fisted, money laundering bastard) why not sack Grayson earler ?? Was there actually any point at which Grayson was allowed to spend more than 5 pence on a player ?? So therefore based on your argement why employ him in the first place…………?????

    • WIll23

      @Chareose @number1inyorkshire Why not sack him earlier? Good question. I wish he had the balls to do that but he didn’t.

      As for your claim that Bates is a money launderer, well that will have the lawyers salivating.

      SG spent unwisely what he had allocated to him.

      But, he also seem incapable of improving many of the players he brought in and incapable of organising them to play a game as a team rather than as individuals looking for guidance that never came.

  • mattbb1

    the tenor of the official statement where they have decided to `dispense of the services of’ simon grayson is totally unprofessional for gods sake give him some respect for what he did for us. Hating Bates more….

    • number1inyorkshire

      @mattbb1 i agree but bates is in south africa

  • TomJDavies

    I want Bates gone as much as anyone, but it seems to be an endemic problem throughout the board too. Would anyone truly with the best interests of the club stay silent and just let this happen?

  • TimPM

    I think the reply I’ve heard personally (had personally), and read dozens of times more, is to give up on the anti-Bates like Irving08 suggests (and often for the same reasons), but to also give up on going to the match. There’s no joy left in football when you’re paying somebody just to screw you.

    My personal opinion is that it’s over. Until the next manager fails. Unless @TSS has more energy than I reckon he does? It’ll be like a surging tide until the Board get their priorities right. I’ve been worn down and am even only still visiting this site regularly because this was an exceptional issue and as is Simon’s sacking.

    I agreed to write half a week before I wrote “supporting the troops” something supporting the players and that way in my private reasoning we could rally people to a positive atmosphere, maybe rally the team on, and show we’re not just dissidents and so take away Bates’ ability to dismiss us, or scapegoat Grayson.

    YEP, OS, etc. wrote the same line the next day, but merely being pro-club (as you’d expect). I make no comment or conclusion.

    Well, that bandwagon didn’t distinguish the players and manager from the failures of the Board, so how do you join that? I decided when I saw how stressed Grayson was becoming on his interviews that I’d try to help egg on the crowd. I don’t like seeing football affect people’s health. Unfortunately, it seems everybody left was persuaded by the plethora of articles asking for support and the team was encouraged. And then.

    You just can’t factor for such a heartbreaking reverse as we had yesterday. I’ve heard Eddie Gray’s interview of Grayson after the match and Eddie sounds a little pained. He knew what was coming.

    I just hope over time it proves that Bates was completely misguided and not malicious. Thousands of people have lost all hope regarding something deeply ingrained in who they are, and I don’t think the majority will be reinvigorated by a new manager. They don’t want a soap opera they want a football club.

  • Jamie Howdle

    His wife to be cancelled his wedding 2 days before the wedding thats why hes suffering from depression – FACT…..get off his back, MOT!

  • Sean Byrne

    Heard a few months back that it was down to his Fiance leaving him that he had been unwilling to play saying he needed more time to deal with a diffcult time in his life, wish him all the best & hope the club & the fans get right behind him

  • Matthew Jolly

    Batesy I don’t give a shit about obrien I’m much more depressed since u ran our club to the ground we’ve lost our dignity now fuck off before we end up back in league 1

  • Matt Foote

    give it a rest jolly

  • Sam Frain

    He deserves our support. It’s like a new signing if he gets back to last seasons form. He has been shocking this season!

  • Ben Sowden

    Some of the other Leeds forums are just fucking gossip columns chucking rumours and hearsay and “my mate’s mate reckons…” about. Now it turns out OB had a pretty good reason not to feel like playing football that weekend, I for one feel sorry for the guy and if he did read any of the slating he was getting it’ll have been pretty shit to see his own fans laying into him without knowing any of the story behind it. We were all quick enough to wring our hands for Gary Speed, did it occur to anyone after that OB might be in a similar place mentally and might be a bit more deserving of the benefit if the doubt? Not as far as I could tell. MOT.

  • Matthew Jolly

    Matt foote real name is ken bates

  • Rob Turner

    graysons been sacked,its official.

  • Phil Glenn

    Great bloke Greyson,But it had to be done just hope it’s not to late.Warnock I think,Not everyone’s favourite but his record speaks for its self,He gets the job done and that’s what we want and now.

  • Andrew Keogh

    Heigh ho… I’d sooner Bates sacked himself (I can dream). Poyet would be good IMO but could he take the step down from Brighton? More seriously fat chance Papa Smurf would put his hand in his pocket to compensate them and buy out his contract…

  • DrD

    All this is making me manically depressed. But that’s the point- much better being depressed about your football team than your private life, work, family,health etc..much better to scream in anger at a team of football players than anyone else. That’s why we need Leeds. Grayson team defensive weaknesses have been known to all for 2 years. Good players need a good coach. Can you imagine George Graham not being able to mould a back four! We are all grateful for what Grayson has achieved in 3 years, but something is clearly wrong. And before you all scream anti bates propaganda -where’s the money invested, I point out barnsley! And of course Norwich and Swansea last year. The players we have are good enough for a top 5 finish! We are Leeds united, united we rise, divided we fall.

    • Chareose

      @DrD

      your on another planet mate…… Our team is made up of loanees and players who are running down their contracts…..What we look like on paper means nothing when you have no motivation or commitment from your players and thats down to the financial structure at the club as much as the manager, theres more to running a team than just shouting at your players, they need to be on contracts they are happy with and permenent signings are whats needed.

      Grayson was sacked because he couldnt make wine out of water……

      DRD aka Joe Bloggs PR Agent for Kenneth Bates

  • Chareose

    By the way according to Ken Bates………. Grayson suggested last night that he was “financially constrained” , thats one of the reasons for the sacking because Simon Grayson had the temerity to critiscize the Clubs disgraceful chairman……..

    • Chareose

      “Simon told me in November we were going to win promotion. I am a little bit disappointed he mentioned last night he has been working under financial constraints.

      • Dje

        @Chareose I didn’t hear the interview, but it sounds like it’s just Bates’ spin. Every manager works under financial restraints (even those without any restraint have a restraint: too much freedom and over-inflated fan expectations. We all like some boundaries) so I don’t think Grayson was saying anything new. If he wanted to go off on one and moan about Bates then he certainly had plenty more ammo to fire off!

        • WIll23

          @Dje @Chareose If Grayson was so unhappy he should have walked…but then money talks more than principles for many people in Britain it would seem.

        • WIll23

          I hate nor idolise no one.

        • Chareose

          @WIll23

          Unless they have a beard and happen to have their mugshot on boxes of fishfingers……… ?

        • Dje

          @WIll23 Yeah, it was a missed opportunity. I wonder if Grayson is rueing it now? It was on the cards when the club released its backtrack over O’Brien on the last day of the transfer window. It essentially announced, the manager is a gonna, let’s see what the next guy can do with the squad – the WHOLE squad.

        • WIll23

          @Chareose Only proper fish in batter from the chippy for me…and everyday of the week if I could get away with it!

        • WIll23

          @Dje A manager who builds not destroys relationships would be a start as you say.

          Football is a squad game, and a manager must be able to build up players with low confidence. Yet Grayson’s abilities in the man management department of the game are one of his shortcomings. he needs to examine during his time away from the game.

  • Dje

    Curbishley’s not managed a team for three and half years now. so could be rusty; not ideal for a team needing an instant oompf.

  • Chareose

    @DrD

    Old School………… DRD stated we were good enough to get promotion, we quite obviously are NOT !

    As for the PR crap, thats just your opinion, 17k for some twat to sit on the net all day typing pro bates shite is perfectly feasible to a cretin like Ken Bates when he wants the fans to be renewing season ticket sales in order to screw us some more………….its big money at stake

  • NorthEastLoiner

    Feel for Grayson but he must have had an idea it was coming and I’d have more respect for him if he’d walked when Howson was sold. Defensive organisation has been the issue for the past 2 seasons and that’s been the bullet that Bates has been able to use but leaving it till the transfer window has closed just shows Bates deviousness. Any decent manager would have expectations around squad additions but in this way he can put them off till the summer, plenty of time to come up with some new lines as well as the old ones. As for who next? All I’m thinking is anyone but Warnock he hates us!

    • Chareose

      @NorthEastLoiner

      Agree with all of that……….I cant stand warnock, good manager but it would be like bringing another Clough to leeds. Yes Larry should have gone after Howson

  • WIll23

    Waiting for TSS viewpoint on this, before responding in depth.

    Only to say that thank God that at last the Taxi 4 Grayson has arrived.

    Well done to Bates (for once) on this act but also for not funding more SG’s woeful picks.

    Grayson got lucky getting the Leeds job and he knows it.

    • Chareose

      @WIll23

      Yeah Bates is a true saviour………..(dripping sarcasm)

      • WIll23

        @Chareose And Grayson was a football manager ….(frothing sarcasm)

        • number1inyorkshire

          @WIll23 ARE YOU CALLING WILL AN IDIOT OR GRAYSON,, LOL

        • Chareose

          @number1inyorkshire @WIll23

          Larry should have walked when howson went so hes a numpty for that. I just hope he didnt sign a golden handshake, I want to hear what hes got to say !

        • number1inyorkshire

          I was only joking Matthew it was just the way it looked written down ..

        • number1inyorkshire

          you know my thoughts on grayson Matthew ,but i believe he should have been sacked for the things he did aside and separately from the financial stuff .

          there were things he did that had nothing to do with Bates ,footballing matters if you like ..

          it all played a part but he just at the end wasn’t up to it

    • Ozwhite

      @WIll23 I’m not championing Grayson here, he had his faults we all know that, but do you honestly think a new manager working under the safe restraints can get us better players? Do you think we are going to get better results?

      • Chareose

        @Ozwhite @WIll23

        a new manager may infuse the team for a short time but i think the players like the fans know that the real problems are at a higher level than just the manager and coaches…….

        • Ozwhite

          @Chareose @WIll23 Sorry I meant results in the transfer market and in payer acquisition, any new manager will get a short burst of motivation from the players, honeymoon period and all that, but I agree you can put a new coat of paint on it but the mould will resurface eventually

      • number1inyorkshire

        @Ozwhite @WIll23 ANY new manager working under that same financial constraint as grayson did of course will struggle we know that ,,

      • WIll23

        @Ozwhite OzWhite, respect to you if you are “THE” OzWhite as that would be honour for me, and if you are not “the one and only” OzWhite then, I’ll still grant you respect as you ask the right questions.

        The short answer has to be “who knows?”

        But my belief is actually more positive than you might expect given my opinion on SG’s transfer dealings.

        The players have the necessary talent, of that I am convinced.

        A re-organisation, a rethink, and playing in a way that makes us actually difficult to beat will be a *small* step for the new man in my opinion and the reason why I felt so little of Simon Grayson.

        Forthcoming results WILL prove this.

        SG should learn from the experience and think hard about what he did wrong since that way he will come through this a better manger.

        In the goldfish bowl of Elland Road he was like a rabbit stood frightened in the headlights, not knowing whether to stick or twist so he prevaricated and broke team harmony at will.

        His man management skills were amateur at best. He needs to learn fast but instead seemed keen to repeat the mistakes of his past.It happens to many of us in life. Learn from what you do wrong is the key to be successful. SG never learned.

        • Chareose

          @WIll23 @Ozwhite

          Actually I think when the dust settles people will have a lot of respect and sympathy for Graysons tenure at Leeds United………….. to almost get us promoted two seasons on the trott with the smallest transfer budget since Titley Marsh joined the Beazer Pub League is something to be proud of. Good Luck Larry

        • WIll23

          @Chareose @Ozwhite I never thought for one moment Grayson was not trying his hardest nor that he wanted the best for the club.

          The question of whether this was good enough has been answered.

        • Ozwhite

          @WIll23 @Chareose Sorry mate I am not “The” ozwhite didn’t realise someone else was using the moniker, maybe I should change it, let’s vote on a new one ey? I don’t disagree that Grayson’s defensive problems should/would have been addressed by a better manager and let’s not kid ourselves there are better managers out there, but I am scrptical that we could attract a better class of manager, given the much publicized history of our chairman and club. Can we attract better than Grayson with no funds to improve the squad although knowing bates he will probably free up some cash now just as anfuck you to the fans

  • WIll23

    Nonesense – singing for Grayson would show that you do not understand football

  • WIll23

    I cheered as well in the office this afternoon.

    I was only hoping the sacking had come earlier and was so very disappointed with victory over Burnley this Xmas when there was a glimpse of optimism that SG would be gone.

  • NorthEastLoiner

    Depression is a real and devastating illness affecting more than half the population indirectly or directly at some point. As someone who has a family member who continues to struggle with it’s effects I feel for O’Brien and those close to him. Hope he gets back to some form and is able to help sort out our defence under the new manager

    • WIll23

      @NorthEastLoiner Here here. All the best to AOB – how difficult must it have been for him to have to come to work in front of 20,000 critics?

  • number1inyorkshire

    The problem with bates and his finances are as we all know flawed he says his budget is A well it may well be but if your wage bill also includes the transfer fee as well then we know the problem you can not have it both ways kenneth players want 10 k a week

    well 9.5 million is f=#@ all its 20 players wages in the real world of championship football which means the other 10 get nowt but more importantly allows no money for actual buying players ,

    why if bates is a football man can he not see that ,to that end grayson was badly let down by the board .

    I think and i said that before earlier that Grayson got himself sacked yesterday almost deliberately .this is my opinion that he had ,had enough of the constraints of Bates and was getting stick from all ends .

    he picked a side to show bates the squad was not good enough kids etc ,and that he had not been backed again in his mind . he mentioned it in his Eddie Gray interview on bates broadcasting after the match, that he thought he hadn’t been backed, although he never said it in so many words but i knew he meant it ..

    SO grayson finally stuck up to bates it cost him but he will feel better tomorrow .he will get another job .

    Just to say though it changes nothing we need bates out too and lorimer and harvey the club lacks finance and leadership and will as long as Bates continues to spout his vile, no one will be interested in investing with him around .

    SIMON GRAYSON did the best he could ,however he is not without fault often he was playing players out of position .some of his loans were awful and others were worse ,he played his favourites even when they were playing poorly and overall we used too many players under his rule .his back room staff did nothing to inspire and his inability to get his point across at interviews etc was at times embarrassing .

    well done simon you finally stood up to bates we salute you and thank you but leeds united moves on ,it is always the case without you ,we wish you well

    • Chareose

      @number1inyorkshire

      completely agree mate, you should have submitted that to TSS……..

  • leedsusa

    We better keep waiting “We are building a club first and a team second and we are making progress when so many people are having financial difficulties.” Per Ken

    • Ozwhite

      @leedsusa Why do we need to build the club? We have a club with loyal fans worldwide the teams the only thing that requires investment at the moment, build the club around that, and he calls us morons

  • WIll23

    Sorry to have disturbed your peace

  • WIll23

    I hate no one.

    I am just a judge of people who are failing to meet the standards required and use this at work or in following LUFC. Incompetence at high levels is sadly a well found phenomenon and football is not an exception to this observation.

    SG should be thankful he had three years managing his childhood team.

    Bates is still a numpty but we are stuck with him. SG can be replaced. But whther Bates is actually capable of picking the right man to take us another level up is doubtful. Sad to say.

    I’d give Di Matteo a go though.

  • NorthEastLoiner

    @number1inyorkshire How many of the less that 20 thousand, for a match that should have easily had over 25,000, there last night were there for the facilities? The support is drifting away due to prices and lack of commitment from the top to invest in the team rather than Bates pension pot.

    • number1inyorkshire

      @NorthEastLoiner like i said before my tickets ,had i gone last night and paid for them were £ 92 in real terms .then there is less away fans .

      too expensive

    • number1inyorkshire

      @NorthEastLoiner 2 adults ,2 kids in family stand .plus membership to get you in there £ 92 is too expensive

    • number1inyorkshire

      @NorthEastLoiner going to ER is a better experience of the pitch but with the on pitch stuff there is no point ,but you are right the ground is better the worst bit now is the west stand ,

      People are not bothered that he is doing the ground well iam not and iam sure you are not .But he has to do both/

      the team is the life blood of everything else

    • WoodyUK

      @NorthEastLoiner @number1inyorkshire I go to watch what’s happening on the pitch. I’d drink a pint on the steps in the freezing cold and be hopelessly happy if we dominated on the pitch and won games. When we play poorly and our defence scares the life out of me, I’m not enjoying it so much even if I can spend 15 minutes in the paviliion.

    • TimPM

      @WoodyUK @NorthEastLoiner @number1inyorkshire A disclaimer to that would be, you wouldn’t mind our defence scaring us if it was Chelsea or Liverpool and not Watford and Barnsley!

  • WIll23

    Probably we won’t Matthew, on that I can agree. But SG’s limitations were bare for all to see.

  • HampshireWhite

    @WIll23 none of the names suggested so far have as good a percentage of wins as Simon Grayson had in his time at Leeds. Warnock has topped 50% in a couple of his clubs for short periods, Bruce, Poyet, Di Matteo all have inferior records (and have often had much bigger transfer/wages budgets to work with).
    The fixture list is kinder to us in February than it will be in March or April – a new manager will need to find an immediate lift in the dressing room and maintain it until the end of the season. I’ll be delighted to be proved wrong, but I can’t see that sacking SG at this stage of the season has improved our chances of promotion.

  • WIll23

    @HampshireWhite I do think the players were at such a level of despondency that there was little chance of consistency (as has been shown in the past 12 months) to have continued with SG.

    Therefore, I am now more optimistic that the honeymoon effect, plus getting in a manager who knows how to deal with players minds and spirits, plus is someone who can get the team to play as a team, will be hugely beneficial to our short term prospects.

  • NorthEastLoiner

    Can’t understand anyone supporting Bates when he is bleeding the club dry of money and of the fans will. He does not care for or about LUFC but only himself and he needs to go or we risk history repeating itself.

  • Chareose

    Irving, supporters are already opting not to go in their thousands because of the way the club is being run not because of the booing, it sounds like youd prefer people to ignore the problems and pretend everythings wonderful whilst we carry on sailing the good ship Bates to its inevitable date with the iceberg………….cant you see that your suggestion will cause just as many problems as protesting would ? Bates is counting on the fact that their are thousands of Irvings that will carry on filling his pockets for years to come paying to watch a stagnant club with no ambition play mediocre football………..

    The fans who boycott the matches are trying to do something about it before we lose generations of potential fans and before current fans decide to find something else to do on weekends “! The trust in Bates has gone, hes lied, stolen and cheated so the fans want rid…..end of

    • Chareose

      dont think so, im 36 but my fathers 63, he feels the same way as me. Infact he predicted all of this from the day Bates took over and it took me a few years to cotton on…………..Your a good fan Irving I just think your wrong thats all……..you dont let a cancer go untreated mate

  • MikeLeeds

    I am surprised Ken Bates considers 5642 (44%) season ticket renewals as terrific – Im one of the Morons thats renewed his ticket – I would have thought that if the other 66% were going to renew their tickets they would already have done so (considering at least £80 can be saved) as there is a number of payment options to spread the cost. Personally I would call call it worrying and could quite easily provide an indication of average attendances dropping to 18,000 or so if things dont improve on and off the field.

    As soon as I heard Simon mention finance my mind cast back to Blackwell – its the only thing Bates has been straight about when he employs his managers “dont talk finance” – new it would cost him (but the result and second half performance made sure he went)

    Sure he will get another good job – I think hes done well just not enough left to get us where we need to be.

    Its got to be Warnock I suppose – but it would be interesting to see how Poyet would do.

    MOT – we can still do it

    • WoodyUK

      @MikeLeeds Fans have been posting on forums for weeks they wished SG would spill the beans about finance constraints. I agree with you that I think frustration may have caused SG to blurt out a small amount of his frustration and I also agree that it was probably the final nail in SGs coffin. Bates’ comment that he vetoed a request for £600k for a central defender ties in with SG’s dig about inexperienced defence and finance issues. Word on the grapevine is that it was Higginbottom (totally unsure of this though) but if this was the case it would have been an experienced capable defender that could have stabilised our porous back line. KB points out we have 6 centre backs but ignores the fact 3 are injured (OK depression is a strange injury, but debilitating) and two are very young and inexperienced leaving only Bruce as an experienced defender (who I think Grayson should have used more this month by the way)

  • MikeLeeds

    56% even!

  • mattbb1

    Grayson will be back in work within the next 3 months, and taking a team into the premiership. Bates’ programme notes last night show just how out of touch he is `we’re building a club, not a team…’ well we’re all right behind you ken (not) we already have a club, we need a team building…

  • Dje

    Right. I’ve read enough genuflecting about our near beloved past. Folk usually relish list-making as eye candy, so anyone willing to put forward their shortlist of three most preferred managers?

    [And before you ask, there’s no rules (as Bates has probably already rigged the vote)]

  • MikeLeeds

    1 -Warnock

    2 – Curbishley

    3 – Poyet

  • Ozwhite

    1 Adkins
    2 Lambert
    3 Radebe anyone?

  • Chareose

    1 Curbishley

    2 Strachen & McAlister (The duo)

    3 Poyet

    • Dje

      @Chareose On reflection, Strachen and McAlister is an unexpectedly good call. Neither is quite the full force, but together I could really see that working (again!).

      Sort of 0.5 + 0.5 = 1.5

      • TimPM

        @Dje @Chareose Gary Mac’s been disastrously unlucky with jobs recently, but would he want to come back to Leeds even with Strachan? After all, pundits seemed to think he wasn’t backed by the Board.

        I tweeted earlier after someone said about getting a Leeds fan not a mercenary that it’s a mercenary’s world in professional football. Better not to get emotions involved unless they have the credentials. Definitely, Strachan and McAllister as a double act would have the credentials though?

        • number1inyorkshire

          @TimPM @Dje @Chareose To be fair to strachan who was a fantastic player for us ,his management outside of scotland where my granny would have won that league with celtic ,is nothing short of crap ,bates will not re-employ mcallister so thats a dead duck i feel .

          put your money on Warnock or Di matteo

        • TimPM

          @number1inyorkshire Reckon you’re right number1.

      • WoodyUK

        @Dje@Chareose Disagree strongly. I really think we need a manager that knows the Championship inside out, knows how to get the best out of a poor squad, lift spirits, gets us playing tight controlled football, pick up gems from both the reserves in the Prem and 1st teams in the lower leagues. Strachan and McAllister as players=GODS, Strachan and McAllister as manager = not for me.

  • number1inyorkshire

    we need someone who has not played for leeds ,who will stand up to the chairman ,who is nasty and the players will be frightened of but will respect and can do better than we have had recently ,but as the wife has a job she will not be standing .

    If he will resign the day he gets us up WARNOCK i have backed his teams to get promoted at the begining of every season and done ok out of it ,until they get to prem

    POYET

    DIMATTEO

    MICK MAC CARTHY

    NIGEL ADKINS though he is a leeds fan as is mac carthy

    realistically it has to be someone with the experience of both leagues and it has to be someone who can start again next season although we are in wwith a chance i think our time is over this season

    • Tyler75

      @number1inyorkshire Poyet is deified at Brighton and he is building a club in his own image in a brand new stadium; more importantly he has a (very small) Chairman who backs him to the hilt – he would have to be insane to give that up to come and work with Bates. Personally I would like to see Di Matteo given a go but we are Leeds so its bound to be Colin.

  • number1inyorkshire

    grayson cost money (compo) from Blackpool

  • WoodyUK

    Curbishley

    Warnock

    McCarthey

  • number1inyorkshire

    CMON TSS WHERE ARE YOU ..LETS BE HAVING YOU ,WHERE ARE YOU ?????

    WHERE ARE YOU ????

  • TimPM

    Also my list (well you didn’t say make it realistic!)

    1. Mourihno

    2. Mourihno

    3. Mourihno

    Well. What better way to show that he’s an absolute legend than get a massively underperforming side on a shoestring budget to the Prem and get us into European football? I’d be disappointed if Ken couldn’t at least truthfully say he tried, haha!

    Realistically:

    1. Warnock

    2. Strachan (McAllister as assistant would be an added sweetner)

    3. Di Matteo

    4. DOL (it’d be interesting, and give him a chance to make amends)

    5. Ian Dowie

    I always talk about Dowie, reckon he’s underrated. Glad to see he’s still on the odds for decent jobs. Also throw in there Holloway, and Hart. Though both at a club so I doubt they’d come.

    • TimPM

      And I like Mick McCarthy, though he’s at a job and I’m not sure about him for our job at the moment.

      • number1inyorkshire

        @TimPM he is at a job but there was a keane style protest in the ground the other day with banners etc ..he nearly came to us before and bates signed him or nearly signed him for chelski as a player

    • Tyler75

      @TimPM I think even Jose would see Leeds and Bates as too much of a challenge !

      Dowie ? Dear God what have you been smoking. How about Dougie Freedman if we could prise him from Palace ? Done a great job with less than no money.

      • TimPM

        @Tyler75 Yep, that’s the usual response to my secret love of Dowie (as a manager- obviously!)

        • number1inyorkshire

          @TimPM @Tyler75 Dowie is an educated Dean Windass have you seen him on sky sports PLEASE GOD TIM he always brings his ugly sister brother with him too ,,

        • TimPM

          @number1inyorkshire @Tyler75 OKAY OKAY!

          Now Bates’ll get him just to spite us, you know…!

    • number1inyorkshire

      @TimPM please not dowie .who is a rocket scientist you know (bit of trivia ehh)

  • MikeLeeds

    Ill take a number of managers but what Id like to see is Eddie Gray back as coach

    • TimPM

      @MikeLeeds I remember the sense of helplessness when we were going down and all of a sudden Eddie Gray marches in in his dark suit and brings all the players together, gets Vidukes back into the fold. He didn’t save us then but he inspired confidence.

      • MikeLeeds

        @TimPM I base it on what he did under Oleary – you did not realise at the time but when Oleary made the mistake of bringing in KIdd it all went tits up.

        Gray is a clever coach and possibly with Stachan doing the arse kicking that could change things.

        Reasonably though its Warnock – Bates could offer him a grand a week and Warnock will realise he will never manage a bigger club than Leeds

        • TimPM

          @MikeLeeds And all this talk of coaches. Lucas Radebe looked like he might be becoming a coach (had spoken to the club?) but Grayson seemed to block it. He’s not proven, but he’d be an icon to the youngsters at the Academy and he was a world class defender in his day…

        • MikeLeeds

          @TimPM Yep definatley an icon – but not sure what hes actually been doing over the last few years (other his ambasserdor roles and obvious family loss) – dont think he has actually been at a club other than getting his badge – I dont think you can risk that against whats required at Leeds

  • WoodyUK

    The problem for me (with any manager or management combination) is the underlying problem they will inherit. They will pick up a squad with a defence crippled with injuries, a deflated, dissallusioned and demoralised squad fattened up with low quality players or temporary loanees, only three fit strikers (one of which is mis-firing at the moment and the other you’d have to be a genius to inspire to greatness). OK on the plus side we may believe that a really good manager could get Becchio back as he used to play and bring Connolly, Bruce and O’Brien back into the frame and performing as we all know they are capable of playing but this isn’t going to happen overnight and the wage bill will be the same next year as it is this year (I think that only Bruce, White and Parker’s contracts are up and I’d love for us to keep White though I don;t think it will happen). Harvey is having a laugh if he thinks I’m going to believe changing the manager gives us a chance at promotion more than retaining SG.

    • WoodyUK

      Reports say Ince interested in the post (KB would have to be the moron to even consider this one after Notts County debacle) and Gus Poyet not interested, Leeds a great club and job but not for him at the moment and a bit bemused why SG sacked

  • mattbb1

    Warnock seems a shoe-in but he wont get us promoted this season, it took him 2 to get QPR up, and by the looks of it Bates and Harvey want that promotion right now. With that in mind it needs to be a quick appointment too, with no compo or wrangling involved so that rules out McCarthy. I think it will be Alan Curbishley, hardly sets the pulse racing but surely preferable to Paul `nine defeats on the bounce at Notts Co’ Ince. And a better track record in the English league than Gordon Strachan. I think Dave JOnes and Billy Davies come with baggage and Bates wont go for that. I actually thought to myself that Michael Brown wouldnt be a bad shout as a player coach, his legs may have gone but a good fottie brian and has worked under warnock, redknapp.

    • Tyler75

      @mattbb1 Also it took Colin years to get Sheff Utd up – playing mind numbingly dull football in the process. Curbishley would be third choice for me behind Di Matteo and Freedman. However issue with Curbishley is why he has been out of work so long – I know he had financial/legal issues with West Ham but these were sorted ages ago.

    • number1inyorkshire

      @mattbb1 To be fair matt ,no one will get us up this season ..

      its all about next season now ,Bates now knows that if he has any brains (mmm)..

      • mattbb1

        i think bates is fed up, and knows he can only get best price if we get promoted, He’ll want an impact manager then, as he thinks we can go up this season. I’m with you, we cant possibly go up. The squad needs reshaping totally and a lot of dross – the only standard of player we have been able to afford – needs to be moved on.

  • banditsteve123

    It has to be warnock and maybe he could get derry to join as player-coach but please not ince

    • MikeLeeds

      @banditsteve123 If Ince turns up my Season Ticket will be up on EBAY – No way.

      • number1inyorkshire

        @MikeLeeds @banditsteve123 what about ROY “OF THE ROVERS” KEANE THEN????

        • MikeLeeds

          @number1inyorkshire @banditsteve123 Now your just trying to upset people!

        • number1inyorkshire

          @MikeLeeds @banditsteve123 i’m a bad man ,he was mentioned yesterday on radio leeds.

          Even Bates would not be that stupid ..

          the problem there is at leeds at the mo though is ,there is n one else other than redfearn ,he has no backup .unless he has called in some favours

        • Tyler75

          @number1inyorkshire @MikeLeeds @banditsteve123 ‘Even Bates wouldn’t be that stupid’.

          I provide as evidence for the Prosecution, Dennis Wise, your Honour

  • banditsteve123

    One person no one has talked about is redfearn now that would be the cheap option

  • MikeLeeds

    Warnock with Vinnie Jones as co star

  • banditsteve123

    The thing with redfearn he is another yes man,would not need a pay rise its scarey but it could happen,dont forget warnock turned bates down a few years back ok not popular with leeds fans but i think we need to move away from ex players they try to please the fans first. We need a george graham type manager,make us hard to beat warnock will do that

    • Tyler75

      @banditsteve123 Seems as if Warnock is keen, referring to it as a ‘great job’ and Leeds as a ‘massive club’.

  • WoodyUK

    Interesting to read Joe Grayson’s Tweets over the last few days. The Grayson family are obviously ardent LUFC through and through – and SG’s kid seems completely cut up. Strange if you look back over a few weeks how many of his tweets mirror our own “budget of a lower/middle team with management aspirations of title winners” , “one of best win percentages of any Leeds manager” “Wish leeds had rich owners that let their manager spend money :/ 15 million from sales in 3 years and not even 1 million spent” etc. I am guessing SG has been under immense pressure for months and not many work at their best when fearing for their job. I am guessing if he tweets he probably also forums and I hope he passes on what he reads that the majority of fans know SG loved the club and tried his hardest and is appreciated for the last 3 years. #BatesOut as JoeGraysonn would say.

    • TimPM

      @WoodyUK When I saw Grayson during the Howson interview I felt really sorry for the bloke, clearly under massive pressure like you say.

      And so we ramped up Bates-out, unfortunately don’t think it quite had the desired effect eh… fecksake.

  • GranulatedAndy

    David Batty !.. so what if he aint got any coaching or management experience !!

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