Anyone that’s read the sales pitch attached to the 2012/13 season ticket renewal form may have sensed the underlying tone of desperation.

It’s understandable too, times aren’t great for Leeds United. The club lost a lot of season ticket holders at the end of last season, attendances are down 3,500 fans per game and the club are hovering around the mid-table spot fans predicted a lack of investment would result in.

Overall, there’s little going on at Elland Road that suggests progress is being made as we approach seven years of Ken Bates.

A quick skim over any Leeds United messageboard or the social networks fans frequent shows a fanbase no longer willing to tolerate the excuses and continue coughing up huge sums of money for this perceived lack of investment. Whilst £7m is pumped into redeveloping an East Stand we can’t fill and don’t own, the manager is left to settle for free transfer and loanees that lack the necessary quality to seriously challenge for promotion.

Of course, Ken Bates couldn’t care less. Happy to dismiss any fans that dare to question his decisions as “dissidents” and “morons”, the Leeds United chairman is in the unusual position of being able to abuse his customers, knowing that an irrational sense of loyalty will keep them coming back regardless.

But the drop in renewals for the current season can’t be overlooked. For all the non-matchday income and corporate opportunities Ken Bates’ reign has heralded, the Leeds United owner can’t escape the fact that ticket sales will always account for the vast majority of the clubs income.

You can build all the hotels, bars and museums you want, but none of them can hold 20,000 people paying £30 each to stand/sit in a two foot squared gap for an hour and half, broken only by a fifteen minute gap where they mindlessly battle their way to the front of an overpriced refreshments stand to sink more money into your pockets.

Let’s say an hotel has 50 rooms, charged at £60 per night. Even if you fill that every single night of the week (which you won’t) that’s only £21,000 per week. Take all the staffing costs, the electricity bill, tax and all the other overheads away from that sum, and you’ll be lucky to post small profits. That’s why there are very few independent hotels remaining, because the only way people are making money in the hotel game is by owning huge chains of hotels where minor profits multiply into a viable business.

The pub game is just as bad. I came into some money a few years back and considered buying into a busy city centre bar with some people I knew and was amazed by how small the profit margins were. This is a bar that’s busy every night of the week, that doesn’t rely on fortnightly trade for the majority of it’s custom, yet the profit margins were pathetically low. It would have taken me decades to recoup my initial investment if profit margins held steady. Again, success here relies on large chains like Wetherspoon’s monopolising the market and multiplying the small profits of hundreds of bars into a healthy business.

The point I’m getting at is this just isn’t a realistic stream of income for a football club. The margins are too low and it will take so long to recoup the initial investment that I doubt if we’ll reap the benefits in my lifetime, never mind 79-year-old Ken Bates’.

While this is going on of course, the profits of the primary business are suffering. The millions upon millions of pounds of pure profit there for the taking from the stadium that’s already built and easily filled by giving the customers what they want has been forgotten. Or taken for granted.

Ken Bates’ plan relied on the blind loyalty of the supporters. A stubborn breed who refuse point blank to stop attending games because of Ken Bates. He’ll be gone soon enough we reasoned.

Seven years on, the pattern continues and we’ve stagnated (via League One). Only in the last year or so have the masses really started to vote with their feet. Enough is enough, thousands decided to stop attending and all of a sudden, there’s a problem. The walking cash machines have had enough, and attendances are suffering as a consequence.

The situation is so bad, attendances are now lower than they were in League One and that can’t be dismissed as a result of the recession, because that’s a pattern we’d see at every football ground across the country – and that’s simply not the case.

Ken Bates doesn’t care what the fans think, but at this moment in time he’s losing money. If the 3,500 drop is still there at the end of the season, that will represent a loss of over £2,000,000 (based on a conservative £25 per ticket). If this is about to get worse as more people refuse to renew, Leeds United could see millions more shaved off their turnover next season and no amount of bars and corporate seating will offset such a loss.

All this leads me to wonder whether the “leaked” Fabian Delph story was a ploy to lift spirits as season ticket renewal forms were sent out. Leeds United “don’t discuss transfer targets” we’re told repeatedly, yet the club’s Director Peter Lorimer thought it was OK to tell a supporters club at an On The Road event – was it accompanied by a wink? Did he think they’d keep it a secret?

Ken Bates is like the Derren Brown of football, a master of manipulation and misdirection and whilst I’m only speculating here, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if this deal fell through at the last second. The groundwork for failure has already been laid with Simon Grayson warning “there are many obstacles to overcome”.

Maybe I’m being overly cynical, supporting Leeds United is certainly conducive to such a personally flaw, but I suspect there’ll be a fair few fans out there waiting until the very last second before renewing and will base their decision on the January transfer market. Over to you Kenny.

  • HmeisterGeneral

    I wrote a letter to Ken Bates along the very same lines. All through the summer, the club were hinting at deals, for Smith, Woodgate and Bowyer. We didnt end up with any of them. But no doubt a few morons were hookwinked into buying season tickets.

    #7YearsOfLies

  • pnxb1019

    I did resist posting an earlier response to the Delph story but it stinks to me too. Don’t get me wrong I would love the lad to come back and he may well do exactly that. However I am very suspicious when the likes of Peter Lorimer (and more importantly those he speaks for) suddenly start to leak information. Why does a club that has a North Korean ‘ like ban on Twitter and information blackouts on transfer news figures/targets etc suddenly starts passing out information on prospective loans. Doesn’t make any sense to me at all.

    I agree with your financial assessment. Leeds United Limited is a company that cannot be in the rude health Bates claims, reduced crowds , reduced memberships , reduced LUTV subscriptions. (It will only get worse next season if the club remains where it is or lower) My concern is though that if it continues Bates will revert to his previous tactics……administration.

    I suppose that at least if he does go that route he will surely not be able to commit the same trick again and end up still in charge…surely the numpty supporters who follow him as their ‘saviour’ and ‘glorious leader’ will not accept it again? Surely the authorities , Serious Fraud Office , Trading Standards , Revenue & Customs ….somebody , anybody …….FFS…. would stop him??

    • Gryff

      @pnxb1019 Mabe to get the fans’ reaction to it?

  • Irving08

    I agree – it’s nearing a moment of truth for the club – even if ‘stagnation’ is too strong a word for the whole period of KB’s rule. Under Blackwell and administration, yes, but surely ‘stagnant’ is overstating things for the subsequent period. Until around January last season, there was a genuine feeling of optimism and renewal abroad at Elland Road. For me our inability to keep hold of Johnson and Kilkenny was a key moment. On Delph, I can’t see what SG has to gain by conspiring in deception. My sense is that, whatever reservations fans like me have about his management, by and large he is respected personally.

  • WalterCasper

    Yet another article moaning! You can’t go a day without hearing a winge about bates. What is all this gonna gain? Nothing. If you don’t like it then stop going to games, and stop supporting your team. That’s not gonna happen though is it. There is fuck all can be done about bates being chairman and the sooner people accept that the better. We’ve got a club to support through thick and thin. How will players feel if they’re reading these articles? I’d say unappreciated. Moaning about bates will gain you nothing aside from winding yourself up and more importantly an unneccessary divide between fans. Not everything is a conspiracy theory amazingly. Get behind the team we have. If you don’t renew/go to games you are only depriving yourself of supporting LUFC. Bates simply does not care.

    • TSS

      @WalterCasper Of course Bates cares, it’s his bottom line that’s affected.

      As for the players, I suspect they’re equally frustrated by being stuck in a rut and the team receiving no investment from on high. Do you think they came to Leeds hoping to sure up mid-table?

      This is a big club with huge resources languishing in Bates-fuelled mediocrity. Open your eyes to that realisation, it’s liberating.

  • CraigSweaton

    es to hold on to keys you’re entirely correct with this one!
    I voted with my feet at the start of this season because, any club that refuses to hang onto it’s key players & then refuses to replace them, is not worthy of my £30 odd pounds per week.
    Time to change mr Bates before the rest of your cash cows wake up!

  • CraigSweaton

    you’re entirely correct with this one! I voted with my feet at the start of this season because, any club that refuses to hang onto it’s key players & then refuses to replace them, is not worthy of my £30 odd pounds per week. Time to change mr Bates before the rest of your cash cows wake up!

    D

  • batesbane

    I too have reached the end of my tether. I feel sullied having anything to do with any of Ken Bates enterprises, but have turned a blind eye, because of my beloved Leeds.

    However, I am no longer prepared to be associated with this self proclaimed “Great Businees Man”, whose efforts over the years have left a stream of bankruptcies and ripped off creditors. Nor am I prepared to be patronised and lectured by a tax exile on Goverment Waste and other sundry political topics.

    His pleadings of poverty and tight budgeting conveniently ignore the fact that it would appear that the club is being systematically asset stripped, via his network of mysterious offshore companies. To make matters worse, the money that remains in the club is being used to enhance the value of an asset, the ground, which is owned by someone else. I am no longer prepared to fund this.

    Bates can spin this whichever way he likes, and dismiss the fans concerns. Ultimately, however he will get the message when enough people tell him to stick it.

    Sometimes you have to hurt yourself to improve things. so, sadly and for the first time form many many years, I won’t be renewing my season ticket.

  • Si

    You are absolutley right TSS – there are many on here that dont agree or go with a lot of what you say but i am one of the ones that 9 x out of 10 agrees with what you spout. This is not me brown nosing, i simply agree with most of what you say. I will be sure to let you know when i dont!

    I can understand the stance of people voting with their feet and agree that its bums on seat and not heads in beds that will produce the “proper” income.

    This is set to get worse, what with the club losing 2 million a year in lost ticket revenue not to mention the losses associated with merchandising.

    The problem is that it wont be Ken that suffers, he will simply reduce the “wages/transfer pot) to suit the income and be sure he will do this!

    He is a stubborn old goat, a petulant stupid old goat and he will come out with a statement at some point via Radio Hitler that due to falling attendances, he has had to reduce Simon’s pot.

    I am not one of those that has stopped going but I am stating for the record now that if any one of Adam Clayton, Jonny Howson or Aiden White is allowed to leave on a free at the end of the season (season after for AC i think) , I WILL stop going until the this cancer is removed from our club!

  • Lee B

    According to the Aston Villa manager, LUFC have not been in contact with regards Fabian Delph.

    More smoke, less fire…

    • TSS

      Just spotted that myself. Very worrying.

    • number1inyorkshire

      i said this earlier on transfer post ,they have not been in touch about either lichaj or delph

      apparently he wants to keep lichaj there ,,we will see IF THEY EVER GET IN TOUCH grayson idiot

      • TSS

        @number1inyorkshire The Lichaj rumour was plucked from thin air anyway. Papers/fans/websites clutching at straws, throwing together an easy link so you can’t really blame the club for that being a non-starter – they never claimed otherwise.

        The Delph deal however is inexcusable.

  • Matthew

    Why would people want to buy a season ticket for next season anyway? We have a few players out of contract soon who will either leave on a free transfer or be sold as the club under Ken Bates refuses to pay the going rate to keep our talent.

    Because of this, we’re going crash in a big way next season when the likes of Snodgrass, Howson, White, Clayton, even people like Ross could go too, this is a fact.

    Why should the fans pay good money to support a club a chairman has no interest in supporting himself?

    Not to mention when we do lose our best players we face relegation and the loss of a good man as manager in Grayson.

    If this club had any kind of credibility they would sign Snodgrass, Howson, Clayton, White etc up to long term contracts, fuck the loan stuff.

    • Chareose

      I think Ken will spend a few million next summer…….he will have to because relegation wont help his cash flow and Leeds will need to replace half the current team. It wont be enough for any sort of success of course,,…… just enough to pull the wool over some fans eyes

  • leeds_lad

    Maybe Bates has a point in calling some fans “morons”, but incorrectly this should refer to the ones that continually fall for his “spin, lies and deceit”. Unfortunately, whilst this minority continue to line Bates’ pockets, the club and the rest of the Leeds supporters will never see an end to his reign over our club. Leeds United will continue to stagnate at our current “profitable” level, and player funding will be cut even further on the “reasoning” that attendances are down . The one thing that Bates will not compromise is is personal greed for extortionate profit. SUPPORTERS ACTIONS MUST BECOME UNANIMOUS AND TARGETED !!! BATES OUT !!!

  • number1inyorkshire

    he wouldn’t would he ,,would he ,he would ,the reason smith wasn’t sold in january when he left cos there was a shop full of his clothing range to sell ..

    Who is the liar here

    defendent number 1 MR PETER LORIMER who i believe, though i wasn’t there claimed leeds had been in touch and a deal was at an advanced stage he was basically coming with a view to playing saturday.

    defendent number 2 ASTON VILLA who claim leeds or noone else had been in touch about delph

    defendent number 3 THE PAPERS who claim leeds and all the usual suspects had been in touch ,WEST HAM etc ..

    NOW villa have nothing to loose so they walk free

    papers are full of crap so they walk free

    PETER LORIMER ,friend of bates ,director and person teetering on the ex-legend status ,with plenty to gain ??? putting this out for bates, to get people buying season tickets is that a feasable situation for a friend of the fans and legend to many ,would he do that..

    If he has with no actual facts to back it up and he has basically lied ,well then for me thats his legend days over .

    That is an inexcusable situation for a director to put that out with no groundings of fact

    he should resign

  • Matt7702

    Very good article and lots of good points that resonate with many Leeds fans I’m sure. I’m sadly part of the older group of fans who put the ‘side before self’ every time and blindly buy a season ticket. I have even taken up with the early renewal already. Not because I’m a moron, as pointed out by a few in their posts, it because I’m cursed by being a Leeds fan.

    I dislike Bates and everything he stands for. He is preparing this club to sell on (updated facilities and no debt) at the cost of our great club and the chance of getting into the premiership. He uses our loyalty not only as a way to constantly take money from us, but also a unique selling point, the fact we will alway fill away ends in stadiums up and down this country.

    The problem is, as pointed out in the original article, the support rests on our loyalty. I remember the great days and the good days, I also know the bad and very bad, some Leeds fans, particularly the kids don’t remember the former and those kids attending ensure our future loyalty base. They are as important, if not more so than a 50 year old season ticket holder like me. Bates knows that, but doesn’t care as he cares about HIS future bank balance than the future of this club.

    However, this is where the dilemma occurs! It sticks in my throat to boycott Elland Road even if I hated the man, the thought that we play in front of 20 odd thousand hurts, but to ever drop to the embarrassing levels of Wigan, Blackburn, et al would break my heart. My one point of satisfaction through these last 10 years of hurt is Leeds fans are loyal, loud and everywhere, that we are not glory fans,that we don’t just sing when we’re winning, that its team before self every time. The Yorkshire ‘keep on fighting’ spirit. That’s all I have left and I kind of feel reluctant to let some profiteering cockney take that away from me.

    So regardless of his tactics, his deceit, his lies and his lack honour, me and ‘our lass’ will always be there or at least until the world stop turning round!

    Marching on together.

    • number1inyorkshire

      @Matt7702 well done for buying the season renewal ,i will go still to E R but that as i have said before is all i do .just literally tickets in to the game nothing at all else .

      And only league games .no cup runs etc etc because after all the big games we had in previous seasons with big crowds none of it went to the playing bit and bates is still crying the poor tale ..

    • TSS

      @Matt7702 Excellent comment. What worries is me is the “lost generation” that have never experienced anything but Bates’ reign.

      I worry that they may not feel a similar sense of loyalty to a club whose chairman has given then little reason to believe. It’s easier for those of us that have been going for years, because we can remember a Leeds United without Ken Bates – and that keeps us going. What have those that can’t got to draw from?

      We all know we’re losing kids every year to the ludicrous prices. My niece for example is an ST holder at Barnsley because her Uncle (opposite side of family) takes her there for next to nothing. Her Dad can’t afford to pay Elland Road’s prices to take her and I refuse to pay full price in the Kop so I can, so that’s another supporter lost and I suspect there are thousands more in the same situation.

      Something really needs to give. My worry is that Ken Bates doesn’t care about the long-term because he knows he won’t be around to see it. Losing kids sales barely impacts on the club at present, but 10 years down the line it will do.

      • Chareose

        @TSS@Matt7702

        Exactly what i was saying the other day TSS !! We are losing a generation of kids that have better things to do than support a stagnant ambitionless club…… For me Not renewing season tickets will damage the club as much as hurting Bates….. the answer has to be an orchastrated campaign to garner government or legal support that Ken Bates is not a fit and proper owner

        • TSS

          @Chareose@Matt7702 I know it’ll damage the club mate, but I don’t think I can renew and continue to fund a chairman that is manipulating fans into repurchasing through fear of a Ridsdale repeat. That letter truly sickened me. Add in all the disappearing funds, the lies, the deceit and I just don’t enjoy it any more. It’s no longer fun – not at Elland Road anyway. I’m paying to be abused by an owner that simply doesn’t give a shit, so why should I?

          As people keep pointing out, he isn’t going anywhere. And they’re right, so fuck him, I’m not going to spend another 7 years paying for him to lounge around in Monaco and take the piss out of me.

          I think my plan for next season is to only attend away games. They’re still enjoyable if nothing else. I know enough ST holders that don’t go away so I’ll have no trouble getting tickets and I won’t be further funding this madness. Whether it hurts Leeds United or not, there comes a point when you have to put this irrational loyalty Bates has continuously exploited to one side and ask yourself the simple question – are you still being entertained? Quite frankly, no. I go to ER nowadays out of habit, and because my ST is already paid for. Nothing more.

    • I totally Agree with everything that Matt 7702 says and although i can’t afford season tickets and only get down to around 10 games at home in a season being from Whitehaven in Cumbria i feel that i do my bit supporting our fantastic club . I honestly do not know if we will ever be promoted whist Mr Bates is at our club and i feel that with every year that passes, we are losing the kids that would have been our future supporters to the likes of Scum and Chelsea.

      I really worry that If we do not get promoted soon we will end up like the Burnley’s and Blackburn’s of the footballing world and our support will eventually die off. i sincerely hope i am wrong because i absolutely live and Breath Leeds United and the wonderful city of Leeds even though i am Cumbrian. Marching on together !!!!!

  • number1inyorkshire

    just reading GRAYSON on sky .will not be drawn on delph ??

    then there is this old chestnut ,”there is no point buying squad players or players to sit on the bench ”

    So then why do we have ,forsell ,varynen etc etc, he has brought in many a player that has sat on a bench or worse not been in the team at all .we need a shake up somewhere at the very least can we employ someone to speak in public for grayson ..

  • WIll23

    TSS, I am still far from convinced over the funding of the East Stand (until the next accounts reveal more detail on the sources of the funding – whether banked cash (doubtful) or loans) but I still stand by my view that no club could raise loan finance to buy players. Investing in players versus bricks & mortar for a lender is chalk and cheese these days, though we remember the Viduka type deal!

    The club has to be self-financing according to Bates and yet recent accounts PROVE the club does need a cash injection to avoid sales of Lees, White, & Snodgrass and anyone of tangible value.

    The costs of running the club are only going to get larger, revenue lower, and I do see another adminsitration on the horizon, sad to say, unless Grayson achieves a miracle beyond his talent. Sorry but I think Grayson has p*ssed away a lot of our cash in the past 3 years.

    Without promotion I am sure we will be in administration in 2013 (arguably a 50% chance of admin?) if Bates is unwilling to put any/anymore of his money into the club and I therefore fear more upheavel off the field is directly ahead in the absence of a promotion party.

    The economics of falling attendances can only increase the speed at which the end meltdown becomes a reality.

    • TSS

      @WIll23 The £7m came about from people who price up such work for a living. I think it’s a fairly accurate figure, give or take a few hundred thousand.

      Our wage bill is average for the division and we don’t spend anything on players. Blame Grayson all you like, but his hands are tied by those limitations and average players are the best we can afford. It’s all well and good saying he’s wasted money, but what’s the alternative – we either get the players we can afford, or we don’t have any players.

      Spending £7m on a stand you don’t own is like bolting a conservatory onto a council house. The only way it makes sense is if Ken Bates does own it , and if that’s the case, he’s swindling us for £2.5m a year in rent!

      But let’s disregard that completely for a second. The facilities added with this £7m will take decades to recoup that sum and since we “know” budgets are tight, I cannot for the life of me understand why it wouldn’t make more sense to use the money for the repurchase of Thorp Arch and reduce outgoings by £1m per year – Incidentally, that’s the same Thorp Arch that was going to be repurchased by Fabian Delph’s sale, but instead, more money vanished.

      A loan has to be secured on something. No one has given Ken Bates (with his dodgy track record) a £7m unsecured loan. As Ken says, banks won’t lend speculatively at present and I can’t think of a better example of the word risky.

      None of it makes sense I’m afraid. I can fully understand that banks won’t lend for players, but they’re not going to hand an unsecured loan to someone for building work either. So that means we either had £7m to start with – some of which should have been on the squad or Thorp Arch – or we have an even bigger web of lies and deceit to untangle that basically boils down to Ken robbing us of £3.5m per year in rent.

      Which scenario are you happier with?

      • WIll23

        @TSS As I say we need to see the accounts to confirm the cost, it’s funding and the terms of that funding.Even if your £7m is correct, over assumed 25 years that is £300k plus interest per annum, say max £0.5m. Not a huge cost. But we are both frustratingly weeing in the wind until the facts come to light.

        The funding can be secured on the thing being built, or on future revenues (securitisation)…and we’ve been their before.

        Admittedly we did have £3.7m of cash at 30 June 2010, and most of that was generated from player sales. Only the next accounts can help reveal capital commitments, operating lease commitments and of course the closing cash and player costs. They should be more helpful to our understanding!

        As for the alternatives…buying Thorp Arch – I thought we lost the right to repurchase it. It then became more valuable as development land than what we could afford to buy it back at.

        The club is loss making (insolvent) but for player sales. That is a fact that hits me the hardest and leads me to see us as a selling club until we get someone willing to fund the club as a hobby. I still can’t believe no one in the Leeds area was so unwilling to step forth (Bates is right on this point – where were they?)

        Finally, I am Adam Ant…sorry, adamant…. Grayson’s turnover of players is a joke, the guy has lost credibility thanks to p*ssing away what little budget he may or may not have had.

        • TSS

          @WIll23 The turnover of players is directly linked to a lack of investment and the fact half our first team squad are sold or leave on a free every year.

          Also, we can still repurchase TA. We just missed “favourable terms” or some such nonsense.

          I fail to see how you can secure a loan on what is being built when you don’t own the land on which it’s being built. What happens if the land isn’t yours next year? Also, a loan against future revenues is speculative – thought that was impossible according to the mighty bearded one?

          The crux of the matter – and my main problem with any loan – is that IF (and I still don’t believe he can) Bates can secure such a sizeable loan with his reputation, then he could easily secure a mortgage on Elland Road and TA. The repayments on both would be less than £3.5m a year by your own calculations and since we’re already paying that, we have proof of our ability to pay – plus it’s secured, so it’s minimum risk for the bank. Much less of a risk than £7m on some facilities added to the same stadium.

          I can only conclude he owns both. Doesn’t matter how you cut and dice it, nothing else makes sense – and if he does own both, then we’re being fleeced of £3.5m a year. I can’t live with that.

        • WIll23

          @TSS Many companies extend there own leased property and capitalise the costs on their balance sheets. It is not uncommon.

          Securitisation was common in Housing Association developments and presumably still around. Housing Associations would get 40% capital funding from central govt and raise large debt tranches to cover the other 60% securing the loan repayments on the 60% on rental income from those built properties on completion.

          Grayson’s responsible for squad management and he allocates funds. His player rotation is a function of his inadequate purchases, not the funding basis.

          ER and TA are not for sale whether the finance can be arranged or not.

          As for ownership of the properties, that is the smoke & mirrors element of the corporate structure that expensive rip-off auditors are not very good at examining.

          Is the going rate a market rate, or is it a means to fund Bate’s lifestyle IF he is indeed the freehold owner? That is the big question!!!!

        • WIll23

          @TSS PS Man City do not own their ground and spent £40m on development before moving in on bars/restaurants etc

        • TSS

          @WIll23 Doesn’t matter how you try and justify it, it makes more sense to wipe £1m from outgoings (or £3.5m ideally) than it does to waste cash on some pointless boxes and a museum in the East that will take decades to give any return. It’s absolute madness.

        • TSS

          @WIll23 Man City didn’t take a loan out either, how is that relevant?

        • number1inyorkshire

          @TSS@WIll23 it will be interesting to see what the museum is and how it will work .I get the point about paying for it etc ,but time after time on here and various sites we go on about our rich history etc etc ,in my opinion we should have a museum or similar to sho it off .there is never a home match goes by without me seeing scandanavion fans japanes ,chines fans etc turning up it will be good for that ,will it be used on none match days remains to be seen but i like the idea in principal

        • Irving08

          @WIll23@TSS

          Excellent exchange, naturally with more questions than answers; but the right questions.

        • WIll23

          @TSS Man City was simply used to show the example that businesses do spend on assets they do not own. The funding question is separate.

        • WIll23

          @TSS TSS, the City example was used to show that clubs do invest in their infrastructure despite not owning the main building. The funding issue is entirely a separate, but reasonable question to raise (as you have rightly done).

  • BarneyWhite

    I am not going to renew for next season (me and 2 kids).

    I despise the man and everything he is doing to our great club. I am tired of his spin and lies, the embarrassing rants, the embarrassment he causes the club. The way he has ripped out the heart of the clubs support to the point there is no fight left is beyond belief.

    I am sick and tired of loan deals, has beens, league 1 players, our best players on short contracts and the likes of Norwich, Southampton and Swansea showing what is possible. I cannot bear the thought of Snoddy, White and Howson moving on in the summer.

    As for the remainder of the season let’s get after the B******. I know it will do no good but it is the only thing that will make me feel a little better.

  • david murray

    hiyA I THINK BATES IS MAKING THE CLUB LOOK AS GOOD AS POSSIBLE TO TRY AND GET A SALE TO A over sea buyer if no 1 can see this then your dumb!!!!!

    • TSS

      @david murray Ending a comment with an attempted insult doesn’t really emphasise you’re point mate. Makes you look a little dumb if anything…

      If Bates was trying to make the club look good to an overseas buyer, he’d be concentrating on repurchasing the assets – a football clubs value comes from it’s assets, not some pointless bars and museum that will very little (if any) money.

  • david murray

    yh i see your point no i was just angry reading this because most is true he is destroying the club, u cant get out of the league with new facility’s, i just think to a over seas buyer that the club looks more attractive now to buy,

    • TSS

      @david murray Can’t see anyone doing business with Bates considering his track record and the mysterious ownership of stadium and training facilities. Any potential buyer looking at Leeds would basically be buying a badge – we don’t own anything else.

      • Chareose

        @TSS@david murray

        Bates will own Elland road, the tight fisted bastard would never invest in anything unless he was going to get something out of it and yeah he is probably hoping for a buyer…. but in the middle of a recession ?? and buying anything off Ken bates ??? we need a miracle

        • number1inyorkshire

          @Chareose@TSS@david murray the ownership of elland road is only an issue for the fact its not an asset owned by whoever owns leeds united it is not unusual for the lease of buildings in fact i lease 2-3 myself it is the norm.

          WE have to remember that bates will have 1st refusal to buy back the ground and will when we get promoted (if) .it is on a long lease ,so he is no hurry

          he will not own them at this time but he will one day ..

          man city ,donny rovers .hudd town and west ham soon will not own their ground

          .it is the second time leeds haven’t owned E R

        • Chareose

          @number1inyorkshire@TSS@david murray

          id bet you my left testicle that bates atleast partially owns elland road……..he would never invest in someone elses property

        • number1inyorkshire

          @Chareose@TSS@david murray get the scalpel out and if your taking 1 off the calpol ,lol.

          I don’t think he does you know .one of the things that came out of the bbc program was bates trying to get money off the council to buy back T A .

          Jacob adler does exist he is alive and well and surely there is means of identifying the deeds holder at E R ,it should be a matter of public record .

          IT would have come out by now , ehh i might be wrong

        • number1inyorkshire

          @Chareose@TSS@david murray he does partially own E R , the bits he has built are his in real terms then the conference thing over the road is his ..

  • MikeLeeds

    When I looked at the fixture list at the beginning of the season I didnt see the Ipswich game as the critical point in the season. After reading the previous posts you can feel that it is the critical point. After saturday we could either look like mid table fodder or be right back in there – the league table never lies so its a real pressure match for a nUmber of reasons. I do feel sorry for the players and Larry (& his staff) – if they read this (which they will do) – the comments just heap pressure on a squad that are exactly where we expected them to be at the beginning of the season.

    Lets be positive as it stands 1 point of the playoffs (we must do it this time!) – I remember as a kid betting some bloke a £5 that leeds would win the title in 1992 (we were four points behind them with 4 games to go as I recall it – a bet from the heart not one of reason) – but one that came off – I know its not the same senario but when people start kicking us we have a habit of fighting back.

  • MikeLeeds

    This season could well be remembered like 1992 for a wide range of reasons………… 2012 the year we entered administration again …………….. or the year when we kicked on from a position of presumed despair and got promoted………………… top two just would not be the leeds way …….. we have to do it in a play off final with 9 men coming from 1.0 down (would not feel the same otherwise).

    We need to stick with Larry – I think he deserves that as a minimum (but not sure if he will get the time if a run of solid performances and wins do not materialise.)

    • Chareose

      @MikeLeeds

      i agree but the club is disintergrating around him, Leeds united is a cruise liner sailing too close to the rocks and Bates is the captain who hasnt bothered to invest enough into the equipment needed to gain promotion

      • MikeLeeds

        @Chareose

        Difficult situation do we camp outside the West Stand on mass as in days gone by at the cost to team moral – I say ignor the bates issues (not easy i agree) – we have every chance of going up – not because we are a great team but because the rest of the teams are no better in reality —- if we go up will a buyer come in – Id say yes then

        • Chareose

          @MikeLeeds

          i dont know Mike, i thought like you but the chairman is a cancer that we must get rid of and if people prefer the boycott option to lobbying the goverment then we all have to stick together with ONE VOICE

        • MikeLeeds

          @Chareose

          BATES OUT THEN

        • MikeLeeds

          @Chareose

          But it will hinder the team – need to get behind them – just as we need an extra 4-5000 in the ground

        • Chareose

          @MikeLeeds

          yes but if we get behind the team we prolonging Bates ownership…….as TSS pointed out none of our money is going to the team, our team is getting progressively weaker, momentum has stopped and players are thinking about which clubs they could join to exit the sinking ship. Unless something dramatic happens we will face relegation next season

        • TSS

          @Chareose@MikeLeeds I’m not renewing and will lose no sleep over it. I don’t enjoy it any more, my money isn’t benefiting Leeds United (it’s benefiting Bates) and I’m tired of him using my irrational sense of loyalty against me – he knows he can get away with this shit. It’s reached breaking point for me. Away games only next season.

        • MikeLeeds

          @TSS@Chareose

          TSS – I understand your feelings but if all season ticket holders do the same we face a fate worse than bates – from a financial perspective – Im presuming your under 30 TSS – Im 43 – Ive previously spent 8 years watching leeds in the second tier – I also remember gates of 8200 againt carlisle at ER…… BELIEVE ME that felt a lot worse than the current state of affairs

        • TSS

          @MikeLeeds@Chareose I honestly don’t care any more mate. Bates doesn’t, why should I? What’s the worst that can happen – administration? At least we’ll come out of that with new owners (theoretically at least).

          I’m not going to pay for something I no longer enjoy. I’ve been an ST holder throughout Bates reign and put up with his shit for too long. I’m sick of being fleeced, lied to, manipulated, insulted and generally taken the piss out of. I’m a customer of LUFC. Somewhere along the line they forgot that. I wouldn’t put up with this service from anyone else, and I’m not going to continue taking it from Bates because of my irrational sense of loyalty.

          Sorry mate, but that’s it for me. I’ll see out the season and return to ER when Bates has gone.

        • MikeLeeds

          @TSS@Chareose

          I understand your point of view and as I see it I believe your view will be reflected in the ST renewal figure for the end of Jan (5000 if they are lucky). I can fully understand holders hanging on – I suppose whats £80 if your watching prem football every week. I just cannot do that though… its the team above all else to me (and believe me I am rapidly moving into the bates out camp). Problem is I dont think there is a buyer unless we are in the Prem and an empty ER will not be an aid to the sale.

  • MikeLeeds

    I got my renewal form today – I used to just sign it and send it back never reading the crap that came with it – I did spend an hour or two looking at it – but its in the post….. dont give up it will only harm the club – at some point he will sell on and id rather be treading water in the championship when he does as opposed to being a league lower on minus 15 points (or what ever bullshit they come up with),

    I always base it on our history – would you tell Revie or Bremner your not renewing your ticket after what they built…. they are the reason that we are all so passionate about LEEDS UNITED.

    MOT – We can do it

    • Irving08

      @MikeLeedsMIke I am 100% with you on this.

  • Chareose

    According to reports ive read the stumbling block over Delph….is …. yes you guessed it …. MONEY. Villa want Leeds to pay more than 50 pence a week for Delph,,,,, Kens not happy so Grayson is trying to play the move down……god im sick of this, we are the laughing stock of football

    • MikeLeeds

      @Chareose

      Delph aint coming I can tell you…… but billy bunter from Tamworth is a sure bet

  • Joe Hirst

    absolutely spot on. Tone of desperation is extremely evident in that letter and I for one am not falling for it

  • Mike Wood

    And while we are on the subject, why are we having to renew by 31st January? Christmas is only just out of the way; traditionally January is the month when people rein back their spending, not when they have the pleasure of spending hundreds of pounds not knowing what the team will be, who the manager will be and even what division we’ll be in. At this rate renewals will have to be done before Christmas next season. Does any other club sell season tickets so early in the year?

  • Tony Spirrett
  • Max Taylor-Stafford

    Do you ever email bates with these or ring him up?

  • Max Taylor-Stafford

    I’ve heard he usually rings people back when they email and speaks to them?

  • Neil Gibbins

    Need to do somthing fast whether its a new manager or players. Losing momentum of last years promotion. Prices going up,attendances going down. Even our away allocations are now going unsold. Atmosphere is getting worse and the style of football leaves a lot to be desired. There’s only so much us mugs can take but a couple of good signings can change this.

  • Danny Dunne

    I ain’t renewing this year and I won’t be until that filthy old.man leaves our club!

  • The Scratching Shed

    Max Taylor-Stafford A lad wrote an article for TSS after receiving one of those… http://www.thescratchingshed.com/2011/01/on-the-wrong-end-of-one-of-those-ken-bates-phone-call/

  • Max Taylor-Stafford

    Cheers, typical that bates can make so many points but yet still not answer others comments correctly haha

  • Jason Saville

    I think who ever wrote this article should be new of the club every word in there is bang on the money. Bates out bates out.

  • David Lloyd Hudson

    I think it is time for Bates to put LUFC on the market. One thing I thank him for is making us financially stable, but his reign has come to a natural end in my opinion. We need financial input to take us to the next stage and a hotel and a few more swish hospitality suites isn’t going to deliver in these times like he thinks! This is Leeds, not Chelsea and we want players that give 100% and can do a job…full stop.

  • MikeLeeds

    No player on serious prem money will be coming to Leeds I can tell you that. Do you really think Villa will let leeds have the full benefit of Delph and pay £6,000 a week while Vill pick up the other £14,000 or so – no chance

  • mattbb1

    I was put in mind of ken bates the other day as i endured a 70 year old berating the kiosk attendant at the Shell Garage, the prices were outrageous, but worst of all, the price meter went up in units of 2p not 1p…. and so it went on. Ken you pay the going rate for things, or close to it, you dont pay 1983 prices for players, when is this sill old b*gger going to leave this club? I wouldnt be som dismissive of the rumoured £2m deal taking Howson to Norwich – though not until the end of the season as he is injured. The Clayton thing may have legs too I’m afraid. And by the way all this stuff were complaining about here – not the managers fault – its Ken Bates and Shaun Harvey. Whilst their pensions swell, our team suffers, shame on you – but we’re all watching, and we wont forget.

    • mattbb1

      i take it all back… i really wish i wasnt reading this, so absolutely disgusted with what is happening at our club – worst of all? the absolute bullsh1t that will follow about a war chest – if i was grayson never mind being sacked – i would walk right now. Clayton likely to go as well this week I hear.

  • MikeLeeds

    Latest on the radio is that Howson has signed for Norwich for 2 million – I suppose thats for the West Stand!!

  • MikeLeeds

    Bates harps on about costs – so then why do we have so many players on the books who dont play

  • MikeLeeds

    Just renewed my ticket – think I need mental health treatment

  • number1inyorkshire

    JERMAINE BECKFORD HATRICK IS ALL I HAVE TO SAY !!!! for now anyways

  • number1inyorkshire

    i’m back already what about the howson to NORWICH for 2 million rumour ..in the sun and on some city sites

  • mattbb1

    its now on the official site Howson has gone to the bumpkins – if you cant keep hold of a die hard fan, your most experienced defender wont play for the club then something is badly wrong – this is the last straw for me, i wont go to another game at ER until bates goes. Absolutely disgusted.

    • MikeLeeds

      @mattbb1 may get worse – i can see Clayton going next – I would not be surprised if we are in the shit financially again – hence the 2 million.

      It shows how far away we are when the captain realises we will not get to the premier league – are you happy bates

    • Oxford White

      Agree, it is time to act. support the club long term by refusing to line Bates pockets.

      Howson wants Premier football, e knows that will not be at Leeds under current structure, we fans fool ourselves.

      • MikeLeeds

        Its just typically – all the talk of players coming in…. but the captain leaves…. townsend….. good player……. but we have just lost one so we are no further forward

        • Oxford White

          Townsend is n loan, so next season we are two steps back. Clayton, Snodgrass will follow before next season.

    • number1inyorkshire

      @mattbb1 this is the start of the drain ,snodders ,clayton then there is the rumour that macca being at wigan last night if all goes as bates says that should be 2 mill for grayson to add to his fund lololololololollolol .

      where do we go from here .will pattison be able to play for leeds like howson .would andrews be able to come now ,

      I have to say over all i have not been howsons biggest fan though i am concerned about players leaving .i did however say weeks ago that howson would not sign a new deal i never thought he would i think clayton will stay til end of season then he will see where we are

      • mattbb1

        @number1inyorkshire@mattbb1 just so poor though isnt it, you try to hold on to your best players, and look how weve struggled without howson in the side, selling milner and lennon was understandable they were stellar talents and we were on the skids, but this time round allegedly we arent (well so ken says) Im now thinking Ken has blown the bank on his stupid corporate boxes and is paying it back with player fees, i cant express how angry this is making me. Its like watching a close relative or friend suffering. Bates is just a vile human being.

        • number1inyorkshire

          @mattbb1 you are right we the fans have a right to be angry ,however i do not think howson was gonna sign with us in this division i,m afraid .so in real terms leeds had no alternative to sell because i have said all along he wasn’t gonna sign and would walk for free ,we need to take the money ..

          That is not shifting the blame from Bates and grayson either it is clearly the policy in the transfer market that is holding leeds back that is down to bates and grayson

        • number1inyorkshire

          @mattbb1 neither will the delph loan be an acceptable make weight if grayson thinks it will he is barking right up the wrong tree and has misjudged the feeling of the fans towards him and the board at leeds ..

          we are moving backwards not forwards

        • number1inyorkshire

          @mattbb1 neither will the delph loan be an acceptable make weight if grayson thinks it will he is barking right up the wrong tree and has misjudged the feeling of the fans towards him and the board at leeds ..

          we are moving backwards not forwards

        • Oxford White

          I agree Howson isn’t moving for money but to better himself, which moving to Norwich is, how damning is that!? Howson know Leedscare at avdeadcend!

  • Captaincrash

    Gutted. We never learn and simply cannot seem to mangae the process of contracts reaching their conclusion. Howson, captain, fan, one of us…..no more. Reaction on Saturday be interesting.

  • banditsteve123

    Today the anger im feeling towards ken bates has reached an all time high with the news howson is off to norwich,i have no problem with howson why should he stay get paid peanuts and see sub standerd players brought in.Any one else thinking has soon as rogers deal done snoddy will be on his way followed by clayton,lees,white,a year ago i bought into bates today its anger then sadness to see wat has become of leeds

  • number1inyorkshire

    clearly now the DELPH leak was more because the powers at leeds knew they had decided to accept a bid for howson .

    Maybe not to anyone at that time but the 1st bid that came in, as they had stopped trying to negotiate ..

    Bates has to show that the money is re invested and if grayson wastes it on player that is not a permanent signing then he is not fit to manage any team never mind leeds .

    A loan (delph ) is not good enough we need to be signing players now on 5 year deals at least and 2 million quid will get us a player as good as if not better than howson probably better

  • mattbb1

    a loan signing to replace our iconic, homegrown midfield dynamo – whilst id welcome back delph it shows har far we have fallen from grace under ken bates. We are an anaemic version of our former selves. The money we pump into that team is siphoned off by Bates and his Cronies, and the remaining crumbs are thrown into team management. Bates has no rspect for the fans or the team, he just looks at the turnover, invests it in his own private non football related interests and leaves us all mugs, i’m not only angry i am heartbroken to watch this. I’m praying someone is as angry as I am, but has a few million punds as well.

    • number1inyorkshire

      @mattbb1 Back to bates matt ,noone will invest with him ,they get nothing for it ,he can not show there is anything to buy ,10 million quid gets you nothing or any amount get you the same ,

      he is not selling anything but wants someones money ,its like me going down argos and just putting a tenner in the til, and walking out with nothing .

      An investor is not a buyer .

      Who with bates and his track record of several administrations and bankruptcies would invest in bates, as soon as you wanted something back ,bop in administration again, your money gone .

      • lufcboy

        I work for Argos and we are in trouble – so if you could put a tenner in the till it might help cheers.

        • number1inyorkshire

          @lufcboy THE amount i spent there over crimbo you have to be joking lol .your chairman must be doing the same as bates ,

      • mattbb1

        @number1inyorkshire i disagree, we have a huge turnover of cash, the value of our brand, merhcandise and tv rights. i do partly agree with your comments though about bates, its pretty much paying a premium to get rid of him that an investor would ned to stomach. You would ironically pay over the odds for such a luxury. Quite what Ken will do with £50M at 135 years old i dont know? but he will expect it nonetheless.

        • number1inyorkshire

          @mattbb1 but he is not selling any of the brand ,turnover ,profits tv rights or anything ,He wants someone to invest with nothing in return like harding did at chelsea ,he bought players etc that has no value unless you sell them on ,but invariably players have to be replaced so are loss leaders ..

          he is offering nothing for money ,the only way round would be to find the other 4/5 people who own the 20odd % of shares and buy them .

          chances are though they are bates cronies or family so ?

          BATES says he owns 102 million shares what is the price per share and how can we buy them we can not cos he will not sell them ,until he floats us on the stock market 1 day when we are in prem to do that he will need to own the ground etc etc

        • Tyler75

          @mattbb1@number1inyorkshire The phrase ‘you can’t take it with you’ is obviously an anethma to Bates; unless he’s found the secret of eternal life in one of his offshore tax havens

  • Captaincrash

    One can only imagine the inner thoughts of Snoddy, McCormack, Clayton et al right now. A manager under threat, captain jumping ship, wage policy, transfer poilcy, falling gates, promotion bid dying on its feet……….

  • MikeLeeds

    Norwich have a bargain – they could sell him on for 5million.

    Look at the prices paid in the prem for midfielders – Howson has his failings but he’s certainly as good a midfielder as half the teams in the premier have.

    • number1inyorkshire

      @MikeLeeds at the minute lambert seems to be getting the extra bit from his players ,and he will need to with howson ,wether its because they are new to the prem still or whatever, but it will be next season Norwich struggle .

      Lambert admits himself that the bubble of lower league players might burst and it might not work long term .Add that to his growing reputation as a manager they might struggle to hold on to him so it could be a 1 season thing i hope i am wrong i like Norwich

    • Ludlow Leeds

      @MikeLeeds Howson will quickly develop into one of the best English attacking midfielders in the Prem. Within 2 years he’ll be in the England squad.

  • lufcboy

    There won’t be a lot of the £2mil left for Leeds to spend – Lets hope there is a good sell-on clause. I reckon there will only be about £500k left to spend. I wonder if we would be selling if we were sitting 2nd or third?. RIP Leeds (this season anyway).

    • mattbb1

      @lufcboy i believe theres a mathmatical equiation – Transfer Fee Received + Wages Saved = Available monies to manager. Minus Agents Fees, Minus additional charges for late payments on loan for east stand, Minus Loan from FSF to buy club = Zero. Amazing that equation always balances back to zero.

  • banditsteve123

    We would sell if we were 20 points clear at the top, today is the day this team falls apart,you can bet snoddy will want out now followed by lees,clayton,white

  • Oxford White

    Howson isn’t moving for money but to better himself, which he feels moving to Norwich is, how damning is that!? 
    Howson knows Leeds are at best a mediocre Championship side with no ambition so he has acted, when will the fans do the same???  

  • Jail for KB

    I got to the games regularly but I don’t think I will go to another game now whilst bates is in charge. Neither he or Grayson has any passion for the club, and you need to realise that Grayson isn’t a good manager, we just get lucky when we win and we will never go up with these donkeys in charge.

    • MikeLeeds

      A bit unfair to Grayson – Id say the guy has as much passion as us (he is leeds after all and he knows what it means) – what he has not got is a chairman whos prepared to invest in the squad… he may also make some questionnable decisions but thats down to the fact that all he can do is sift round the players no one else wants and pick up the odd star (which to be fair he has found) -

  • Matt7702

    I’m stunned at the news of Howson! This player, who cares about the club, realises that his best chance of playing in the premiership is to leave the club he loves and supports!! He must have come to the decision that Leeds United are not going in the right direction. The worrying thing is he came to that decision better inform than us as he’ll know the problems behind the scenes. Again Bates has made money and we have now become not only a selling club, but also a laughing stock. The thing that hurts is there is nothing we can do about it!! And to Norwich for god’s sake!! Cos their not going to come back down!!

  • Tyler75

    I don’t blame Howson at all – he’s probably accepted that hisboyhood club, of which he is Captain, isn’t going to be in the Premier League anytime soon with Bates in charge. It’s beyond depressing.

    • WoodyUK

      I agree. I don’t know but I’d assume his preference would be to captain Leeds in the premiership earning a competetive premiership wage. I would also assume that if we were currently sitting in 1st or 2nd he might take a gamble on us getting promoted this season and sign a new contract. The truth is we have enough players feeling the same way that Howson does and are not confident about our ability to gain promotion this season (and if things continue along the same vein any time time soon). If there was more investment and a greater belief that we would be promoted I’m sure Johnson, Howson (and possibly Aidy White soon) would be happy at Leeds. Answers the question why we are starting to trawl through cheap midfield trialists I guess. Strike this season off as another wasted opportunity to return to where the fans deserve to be watching their team.

  • Irving08

    It was on the cards, but it is shocking news none the less. It means that the team which could have won promotion last year is now being broken up bit by bit. Mr Bates has a duty now to share with us his own exit strategy. It is all very well trying to teach the football world how to run a club as a business. But his refusal to sink any of his personal wealth into the club to give us that extra little needed to return to the premiership seems plain pig-headed. The manager too has some explaining to do; but having benefited from the club’s indulgence over his personal life, I am not crossing my fingers.

  • Irving08

    Or are his fingers burning already by the East Stand development – as we feared ?

  • WoodyUK
  • richy

    i have had enough supporting this club that brings me nothing but misery since that rat bates took over,today is the last day i read write buy anything to do with leeds utd or i mean bates united as i will be calling it from now on,away to find a club that deserves my support…goodbye

  • batesbane

    CW Dean Hoyle. Jordan Rhodes. How to build a club and handle the transfer window.

    By the way Irving – it isn’t that Bates isn’t putting his personal wealth into the club. We would be relatively happy, and much better off with him just leaving some of the income and assets in it.

  • pnxb1019

    I wish Jonny Howson well for the future. We cannot expect a professional footballer who is ambitious to hang around this shower of shite running our club. The lad wants a future in the game and he must look around at our recent transfer activity and spectaular efforts on the ‘trials’ front and be screaming at his agent …’FFS Get me out of this pathetic excuse for a football club…it is going nowhere ‘

    I do not blame Howson at all for leaving , I blame the Bates arse lickers for hailing him their ‘saviour’ , which has allowed the fat oaf to prosper. They are as to blame as Bates himself. Good luck Jonny …turn the lights out on your way out the door mate.

  • lufc_matty

    bates in

  • Gryff

    What the hell is going on here? Gradel going I could understand, even if it was a betrayal of the fans. He was from French-speaking Africa and wouldn’t have stayed.

    How can Leeds not pay enough to keep such an iconic player? I refuse to believe Howson could have asked for that much that we have to accept a Norwich bid.

    • Chareose

      @Gryff

      i disagree, i beleive gradel would have stayed if leeds had ambition, a decent chairman and a competitive championship (promotion chasing) wage structure.

      The reason the players arnt signing contracts is because of everything weve been saying. Bad atmosphere, lack of spending, poor wages, zero ambition on the pitch

  • batesbane

    I truly can’t rationalise what Bates is up to here. As I said before, it smacks of asset stripping, with no regard to the long-term viabilty of the business.

    I wonder – now, or at the point when he has perhaps extracted as much as he can, we will be put back into admin. Bates has had his money, and then will have any buyer by the proverbials, because they have to lease or buy ER and TA back from him or his buddies.

    • Gryff

      @batesbane TBH if Leeds was sold and Bates tried pulling that one I would actually back the club in building a tiny ground instead of letting Shylock get his pound from us.

      • batesbane

        I have spent a lot of money at ER over the years, from being a lifelong fan with a season ticket in the Kop end, to more recently, where I use it corporately to entertain.

        I cannot stomach pouring money into the welll being of Bates any more. I also do not want to be associated with anyone with his morals and business practices.

        I will not renew a season ticket while Bates is there. I may go to the odd match. I will plan to put money into grass roots football via my local amatuer club.

  • Gryff

    This isn’t a threat: an observation. I hope Bates has good security for his next visit to ER…

    • Chareose

      @Gryff

      i agree every club has its yob element and if normal people feel angry then there are some who could resort to violence. I dont think Bates should step foot at elland road again for his own safety and to avoid horrible headlines and damage to the credibility of the club

  • MikeLeeds

    Lets face it bates is 80 – not exactly planning for the long term and a business man (depending on your viewpoint!) – he will want his return and he is now taking it – when snoddy, mc. white go that will confirm it – we will be back to the 1980’s (if we are lucky)…… and viewing mid table in the second teir as acceptable

  • batesbane

    Yes – Bates has created a tangle whereby we cannot know. However, I cannot believe that having had the slate wiped clean by admin, our revenue streams and the millions generated by player sales that we are “trading at a loss”. I believe the position is one of Bates deliberate making. We should be thriving,

  • Dean

    I maintain a list of all the people, in order, who if I had a gun and 6 months to live I’d try and kill. For a long long time Jeremy Kylehas been at number one but no longer – well done Bates you’re top of the pops! (PS just in case MI6 are reading this, I probably won’t kill anyone if I ever find that I’ve got 6 months to live, or even have a gun)

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