Hopes of Fabian Delph returning to Elland Road dominate the headlines around Leeds, but there are a few other stories to build January hopes…

Keith Andrews from Blackburn Rovers

Constantly linked with a move to Leeds United, Keith Andrews has returned to Blackburn Rovers following a successful loan spell with Ipswich Town.

After failing to land Andrews in the summer, it’s hard to see what may have changed at Elland Road allowing such a deal to go through now.

Ipswich Town manager Paul Jewell has already conceded defeat in trying to sign him permanently, explaining that Andrews is holding out for a Premier League move during the current window.

Also standing in Leeds United’s way are his current club Blackburn Rovers, whose manager Steve Kean wants the central midfielder to stay and fight for a place in their starting XI.

Tom Lees to Bolton Wanderers

Sky Sports claim Leeds United youngster Tom Lees is attracting interested from Bolton Wanderers.

Considering the ongoing defensive troubles Simon Grayson has been dealing with, it seems highly unlikely that the Leeds United manager would be willing to part with the club’s most impressive central defender at this time.

Tom Lees contract at Elland Road runs until 2015 meaning Leeds United hold all the power and will be unwillingly to sell ‘on the cheap’ – especially when you consider that the hype surrounding the youngster is still growing and further interest will undoubtedly follow.

Taking the above into consideration it seems unlikely that The Whites would be willing to sell at this time. It would be naive to categorically rule out any move away from Elland Road, but a more likely scenario is that the club will wait for further interest that will increase his market value.

For any move to happen now, it would have to be an impossible to refuse offer like Aston Villa made for Fabian Delph. It’s difficult to imagine Bolton Wanderers making The Whites such an offer.

Matthew Pattison from Mamelodi Sundowns

Former Newcastle United and Norwich City midfielder, Matthew Pattison is currently on trial with Leeds United.

It seems the South African is struggling to get a game in his homeland, after returning there in 2009 to play for Mamelodi Sundowns. Pattison returns to England seeking a permanent deal at Elland Road with a week-long trial period to prove himself worthy.

  • leeds60

    Bolton have little money themselves so how will they finance buying Lees no we should offer this small club a fee to buy Holden

  • Twice Nightly

    Sincerly hope the Delph Transfer (Loan) comes off, That could well be the catalyst to kick on and drive for promotion. I am however concerned about the lack of movement going out. We have some distinctly average players on good championship wages we need to get shut of. Any news surrounding these – O’Brien, Paynter (Coventry ??)

  • Gryff

    This is the key thing, isn’t it. We make a mistake once or twice (Paynter, clearly O’Brien as he’s refusing to honour his contract or even move) and it stays on the books for years. This is why Grayson can’t be judged on short-term results. We’ve only just become an established Championship side again and we’ve a budget that reflects that (seriously, that’s a fact).

    If we got rid of Paynter, O’Brien, maybe one or two like Rachubs and Sam, then we’d probably be making a couple more signings I reckon? As it is I wouldn’t expect much more than loans since we can’t afford sizeable fees ATM.

    Surprised Montgomery wasn’t included, as I’ve heard him bandied about a bit. Either way, with the likes of Pattison on trial at ER I’d say it’s highly unlikely we’re still interested in Andrews who rejected Leeds for Ipswich and thinks he’s too good for either side.

    • TSS

      @Gryff Sam will be on next to nothing and as a squad player, he’ll do. You can’t expect to have quality depth when you won’t pay the price for it.

      OB was a solid transfer gone wrong. I suspect his refusal to play somehow impacts his wages, but he’ll be gone by the end of the window regardless. He’s a good centre back so there’ll be interest.

      Paynter likewise shouldn’t find it too hard to find another club. Hasn’t worked out at Leeds but he was a reasonable gamble considering we missed out on half dozen other strikers first.

      Might struggle to find a new home for Chubs.

      Regardless, the two I suspect to move on will free wages up, but we shouldn’t really need to. Our wage bill is pathetic for a club with such a high turnover and we should be able to bring players in before shipping old ones out. The longer we wait, the worse the pool of available talent becomes – they’ll all be snapped up. Then there’s the possibility of a Gradel-esque blunder haunting us again. Seriously, you’d think we were Bradford City with all the financial clout we exhibit, it’s ridiculous.

      • Irving08

        @TSS@Gryff

        Let’s say Simon G. decided to gamble and opted, say, for a squad of, say, just 18 players, would he be able to go to KB or whoever and suggest they pay higher wages to better players, in return for having fewer players on our books ?

        • TSS

          @Gryff Look at the injury crisis we’ve just had. We struggled enough with the limited numbers we have already, that would totally kill us.

        • Irving08

          @TSS@Gryff I just don’t buy the line that we have limited numbers.

          If the manager doesn’t appear to know his best team or is pragmatic to a fault, then of course you will need a lot of players. Furthermore the more players who get a game the odds are the more injuries you will get due to lack of match practice etc. If my memory serves me correctly QPR, for instance, last year used only about 16 or 17 players on a regular first team basis. So the question remains, could things be done differently ? And if not, why not ?

      • Gryff

        @TSS I agree, (tho Simon said no need for “squad players”) would just wonder if with that South African lad & Rogers & co. coming in if Sam is even needed as a squad player presuming Nunez could stand in (and has more potential?)

        Thus, we’d surely offload him?

    • number1inyorkshire

      @Gryff all the players you name apart from SAM i would release for free sam is ok in a squad do we need bromby and bruce so 1 of them could go too parker ,becchio out on loan could all get some mony freed up for incomings

      • Gryff

        @number1inyorkshire Bromby’s getting on in years. Would release him.

        Bruce, I’d say he’s got talent but not the consistency as a centre-half. If we wanted to experiment with tactics I might revert to two central attacking midfielders and try retraining Bruce to a defensive midfielder to give Brown competition. He’s the speed, the bite, the tackling ability…

        • number1inyorkshire

          @Gryff Bruce in midfield ,along with clayton ,howson ,snodders sam nunez ,pugh brown .delph .varynen ..what a midfield along with 6 strikers we still have no defenders

        • number1inyorkshire

          @Gryff Bruce in midfield ,along with clayton ,howson ,snodders sam nunez ,pugh brown .delph .varynen ..what a midfield along with 6 strikers we still have no defenders

        • WIll23

          @number1inyorkshire@Gryff

          Grayson managed to make Bannan & Livermore both look like average players and it would appear Townsend will be the same despite what looked like a promising debut at Burnley by all accounts followed by dirge at the @rse & Palace.

          As for Delph, after his injury there is every chance he is not the same player as first excited Elland Road and I also fear he will suffer under heavy expectations should he arrive.

          Grayson’s transfer record is one that does not stand up to close scrutiny and this would be a very good reason to restrict any cash he can spend.

          As far as I know, the East Stand development has nothing to do with cash available for the first team though TSS still repeats this line without evidence to prove that is the case.

          In Grayson We Do Not Trust.

        • Dje

          @WIll23 Fair comment on Delph, as it is an unknown – but give Townsend half a dozen matches first. Can’t be easy being so young, coming in and playing with a different team, in a different league, in a different part of the country. Considering how crap we were against Barnsley, he must have arrived with team morale at a nadir before the Burnley match. Hat’s off to him that he managed to be an uplift to older players.

          I also think he kept Grayson in his job (which I know is the real reason you are pissed off with him, Will !!).

  • number1inyorkshire

    just watched a bit of pattison on youtube looks like he pings the ball about quite well reminds me a bit of robbo ..

    Think lees will be staying put why move bolton they are coming down ..

    Did Andrews turn us down or was it another reason we didn’t land him last time .

    hope Delph comes ..

    still no word on defenders though of the central type and nobody seems to be on the way out either

    • Gryff

      @number1inyorkshire Andrews rejected us in favour of a loan to Ipswich (same as Bowyer)

      • TSS

        @Gryff@number1inyorkshire It was – as ever – a financial thing with Andrews. Ipswich offered the better deal.

        Bowyer was a combination of better deal and closer to family as I remember it.

      • number1inyorkshire

        @Gryff ok then we know what rejection does to a player at leeds he has no chance of joining us now then has he !!!

        done well for them though he must be good enough to get in a struggling blackburn side surely

        • TSS

          @number1inyorkshire@Gryff Didn’t he have a fall out with Kean? Hence the need for convincer talks?

        • number1inyorkshire

          @TSS@Gryffdon’t know much about andrews other than apparently he bigs himself up a tadd .watched him on sky recently when he scored a goal when ipswich came from behind looks ok ,bet he is on good money though add that to turning us down =0

        • TSS

          @number1inyorkshire@Gryff He’s basically a good Michael Brown with a few goals thrown in for good measure. I’d love him at ER.

        • number1inyorkshire

          @TSS@Gryff From what i saw on sky so would i are the tractor lot offering a bid for him do we know ,they will of course know what Blackburn want and how much he is on ,paul jewell is a c@*$, that has nothing to do with this just thought i would say it!!..

          we need signings of that quality to move us on but as always we know £ is not massive

        • TSS

          @number1inyorkshire@Gryff They seem to think he’ll go to another Prem club, but that hasn’t prevented Leeds being linked. Not sure what to make of it. Couldn’t afford him last time and I fail to see what has changed since?

        • number1inyorkshire

          @TSS@Gryff yep dead in the water i agree,, Ah well plenty more quality players to turn us down too, based on money

        • dh lufc

          @TSS@number1inyorkshire@Gryff What is driving me mad is every time we want a player, the word is we can,t match other championship clubs for wages, but when we want to off load a player, all of a sudden no other club can match his wages??????

        • number1inyorkshire

          @dh lufc@TSS@Gryff i agree which is it ,good wages or bad wages we seem to be moving round in circles with wages

        • Gryff

          @TSS@number1inyorkshire CASH WINDFALL OF £500,000!!!!!

          lol.

          Well, here’s dreaming anyway…

  • Russia

    Харошь чушь нести не купит Лидс его даж аренды не будет!!!!!

    • number1inyorkshire

      @Russia thats easy for you to say i hope it said “KEN BATES IS A ??????

    • WIll23

      @Russia К сожалению сеrодня Лидс – очень ужасно!

  • WoodyUK

    Delph and Lichaj on loan till the end of the season would make me feel a whole lot happier about January transfer windows than I usually do. It will be hard finding a club for Paynter due to the wages he’s probably on (free transfer usually = higher than average wages, and he had his one and only good season just prior to signing for us). If we pay some sort of sweetener and he’s willing to drop a division there may be hope for him. Loan moves like the last one (I believe 12 games played and 0 goals scored for Brighton) don’t excite or even vagualy interest prospective buyers. Not sure Rachubka will go before end of January (more probable successive loans to League 1 clubs through season IMO). I think O’Brien should be gone by the end of the transfer window, decent player with decent pedigree, must be a club in the Championship that would like to have him but can they afford his wages or will we have to sweeten that pill as well. I think we’ll be linked with plenty of trialists in the next few weeks but Larry trials a lot of players and signs few so I think it’s just seeing what’s available for a cheap punt where this is concerned. Lees to Bolton = non-starter in my opinion

  • number1inyorkshire

    yorkie post are reporting today that LUFC are to get a CASH WINDFALL after the kebbie move to athletico ,would be interesting to know how much a windfall is nowadays

    • TSS

      @number1inyorkshire We’ve already revealed the plans for that cash via TSS’ twitter account.

      Basically, Bates plans to have 50 seats cordoned off in The Kop. Packaged with a lovely fish supper, private entry and a complimentary team sheet, The Tomas Brolin Suite is a bargain at just £249pp per game (+VAT).

      • number1inyorkshire

        @TSS sounds good missed that need to get back on twitter more often .

        tomas brolin suite. hope you get a gurkin and pickled egg for that sort of money .

        The wetherby whaler could sponsor it and old lardy himself could be the meeter and greeter

        • number1inyorkshire

          @TSS was he our worst ever signing ???

        • TSS

          @number1inyorkshire Considering the amount he cost, it’s hard to make a case against him being the worst LUFC signing ever.

        • WoodyUK

          @TSS@number1inyorkshire Close call between him and Peter Barnes in my opinion. All the transfer budget on a single player in Barnes case. Magnificent for WBA and tragic for us – only thing good about him was he was almost as bad for Man Utd when he signed for them a few years later.

    • WoodyUK

      @number1inyorkshire Whatever an international tribunal decide is right I guess. We hold his registration and that means we’re guarantee something but IDK how much. Read somewhere is was £500k but where they get that figure from I don’t know – my gut feel is it will be negotiated prior to a tribunal and we’ll never find out (undisclosed)

  • Tim Campbell

    Perm any 2 from delph, andrews and montgomery and we wud have a very tasty central midfield, but after the reports of the way montgomery was treated by certain twats the last time we approached him, I think the move is unlikely

  • Tim Campbell

    So Bolton want Clayton and Lees, i sincerely hope the days of fire sales are but a distant memory. What would be an acceptable offer for aforementioned players? Anyone with £10M can start the bidding

    • WoodyUK

      @Tim Campbell Maybe it’s a dream but I’d like to think it’s about time Leeds started to have some bottle and start to tie down some of these youngsters like Lees on 4 and 5 year contracts if they have confidence in their abilities. Fed up seeing the likes of White and Howson get to end of contract and worrying about replacing them. The core of players in a team should be home grown and loyal to Leeds in their hearts.

      • Tim Campbell

        @WoodyUK

        I agree Woody, I am however realistic enough to know the way old grey beards mind works. I am a great supporter of building from the roots up, the way the Don did. But I doubt we’ll see it again whilst kenneth is at the helm

      • TSS

        @WoodyUK@Tim Campbell Lees only signed a new contract last year. 2015 that expires.

        • WoodyUK

          @TSS@Tim Campbell I truly think all that will keep good players at Leeds at end of contract is promotion to the Premiership. Anyone good enough to play there would surely want to – even if they love Leeds. If they’re tied to the club with good contracts then they only have one way of doing it and that’s to get Leeds promoted. Good that Lees is contracted to us for a few years yet :-)

    • Tyler75

      @Tim Campbell Why would they want to move to a smaller club who will probably be playing in the Championship next season ? Wouldn’t show much ambition would it.

  • West Stand Rebel

    So the £8m we got for Delph went into the war chest did it? Or was it to move Bates cocktail cabinet from the West to the East stand. Not bitter of course but TSS very few remember Brolin perhaps the next restaurant or bar could be named after Paul Rachubka….a class signing, perhaps the best of all time.

  • Tyler75

    Fab Delph and Lichaj, loans or not, would brighten my January right up.

    Forget about Andrews he thinks he’s better than he is and he’s already turned us down once. QPR are apparently looking to offload Hulse on loan – he’d be a significant improvement on Becchio’s on current form.

    • WoodyUK

      Good shout on every point in my opinion. Andrews has scored goals for fun at Ipswich but he’s holding out for a Premiership club and selected Ipswich over us – smacks of loving his wallet more than his football to me. Hulse is a good honest professional, you know what you’re getting with him but can’t see it happening without off-loading Paynter on loan till end of season or permanently – would prefer Keogh back to be honest, he makes things happen for other players even when he’s not scoring himself (bit like Becchio when Beckford was playing with him).

      • TSS

        @WoodyUK All players go where the best deal is – it’s a job to them after all. We tend to put ourselves in the position of having an opportunity to play for Leeds, but you can’t think like that. You have to think of it as Team A, let’s say Leicester and Team B, let’s say Forest are bidding for you. You go to whoever offers you the best deal, it’s that simple.

        My point is, people are letting the fact he “turned us down once” cloud their judgement. You should be asking why we can’t secure deals with quality players like Andrews when Ipswich can instead of blaming an individual for accepting a better job offer.

        What really grates on me is that Ken Bates has you all reading from his prompt sheet. All he had to say was “you don’t turn Leeds United down and expect a second chance” and you’re all lapping up, with absolutely no consideration for why he turned us down. Footballers don’t come to Leeds because we’re Leeds – they come because we offered them the best deal. That’s all there is to it.

        • WoodyUK

          @TSS Which ever way you look at it, we weren’t able to secure his services before, it’s unlikely we will in the next 2 weeks – no matter the reason why, move on and look for other alternatives. If he’s priced out of the club’s wage structure then that’s the way it is (the structure may be rubbish but we have to live with it because we have no other choice with Capt Birdseye at the helm)

        • TSS

          @WoodyUK I agree with that. But the tendency is to blame the player and not the man who isn’t providing us with a suitable wage budget to secure such quality. After Andrews went to Ipswich in the summer, we were left with Michael Brown – and people wonder why we’re shit?

        • Dje

          @TSS As Andrews was going out on loan the wage shouldn’t have impacted on it. We might have agreed to pay less of his wages than Ipswich, but Andrews would not have been expected to take a hit on the difference. If Andrews wanted to come to Leeds rather than Ipswich it would have been Blackburn left with the decision to pay a higher % of his wages whilst out on loan than they would have saved if he had chosen Ipswich.

          As Blackburn saw him as a trouble maker and wanted him out on loan to be in the shop window/teach him a lesson, they were always likely to send him somewhere regardless of getting his full wages covered.

          The way I see it, on this occasion at least, Andrews chose Ipswich over Leeds on factors other than wages (unless Ipswich offer a bigger goal and win bonus? Which wouldn’t surprise me): perhaps better chance of getting in the team, better relationship with other players, a friendlier chairman, more chance of being at a club that would have the money, or willing to spend on buying him if the loan went well.

        • TSS

          @Dje Still, the point remains – it’s business, people shouldn’t take it so personally.

          If it came down to wage percentage then I suspect Blackburn made the call for him. Or at least told him what his options were based on that.

        • Gryff

          @TSS@WoodyUK The thing is, AFAIK he had the opportunity of Leeds or Ipswich and chose Ipswich? Unless Blackburn turned the Leeds deal down?

          If not the latter, he has shown he rates “Tractor Boys” higher than Leeds and is highly unlikely to stick around like Snoddy if we stagnate…

        • TSS

          @Gryff@WoodyUK As you point out, we don’t even know that it was his decision yet seem happy to judge him regardless.

          If he does rate Ipswich as a club with better potential than Leeds then that’s even more worrying, surely?

        • Dje

          @Gryff I disagree Gryff. Like TSS says, it is about business, and as I said, it is about other factors too (half football, half business). Six months ago Ipswich might have been the right call, and now Leeds could be. For whatever reason – and he was getting neough games, enough goals, Ipswich is not where he wants to be.

          Maybe he saw their limited chances of going up, maybe he always wanted to prove a point to Kean and to promote his chances at getting a move to another Premiership team?

          Yes you could say he is a mercenary with no commitment, alternatively you could say he is highly ambitious and only wants to be with the best. We want to be the best and can only do it with the best players.

          Until we are seriously competing in the Premiership I’d never hold a grudge against any player having turned us down.

        • number1inyorkshire

          @TSS@Gryff@WoodyUK fact is ,the only thing we know is that he ended up at ipswich instead of leeds .thats a worrying in itself ,where your dads your brother ,lol.

          so are we running leeds united as a business now ok then bates wins because thats what he says he has been doing since he arrived ,budgets ,within ,its means etc etc YAWN ,YAWN ,YAWN

        • Gryff

          @Dje I don’t hold a grudge; I reckon it’s an unwise call long-term to sign someone who felt a preference to a smaller club than us. I can see why other people differ (but I’m sticking to it! lol)

          @TSS I judge him based on that, because the same rumours that said we were in for him said he rejected us because of that. I’ll judge him based on it, but only Grayson knows the truth and I’m sure he won’t be swayed by me (and I won’t be damning him every day if he does sign – just when he jumps ship at the end of his contract!)

    • number1inyorkshire

      @Tyler75 take hulse tomorrow he was another who would improve us in this division going up would he? ,fact is we are not here yet so lets have him ,i like keogh ,his running was fantastic but everyone in football says strikers are remembered for their goals sadly for keogh ther is not enough of them .but everything else is fantastic

  • Matthew

    We’re not going to get anyone proven at Championship/Premier league level on a permanent deal anyway so disregard pretty much anyone young and decent from teams around us, and cast your eyes on unproven players from lower leagues and players from abroad like Robbie Rogers, USA footballers don’t get paid that much in the United States thus our pay struture is like a kings ransom.

    Besides Danny Pugh, who never wanted to leave Leeds anyway, we’re not going to get someone of proven quality this window, or any even until Bates leaves.

    I feel for Grayson, he’s in an awful situation in regards to transfers, he can either have loanees, old players who are unwanted by most clubs, and a choice to try his luck in the lower leagues in the hope he’l get the next Jermaine Beckford or someone else of quality.

    Blame Bates.

    • Chareose

      agree, i wish it wasnt so but i think thats a fair assessment

    • TSS

      Agree. Problem is, people know this then moan when we go through 30 players a season and don’t consolidate funds to buy just one. Of course, if we did buy just one they’d use the “eggs in one basket” excuse and slate him for that. Can’t win with some people.

      • Chareose

        @TSS

        us fans are natural hypocrites but i have to say if grayson does magicly get us promoted on a squad made up of everyone elses castaways then he deserves a statue, a knight hood and the key to the city because it truly will be a miracle and he is really giving it a go……

        • Chareose

          @TSS

          and…….lets cut the poor git some slack and get behind him and the bedraggle bunch of cheap misfits we call our team

      • Gryff

        @TSS Of course; we’re Yorkshiremen…

  • oldschoolbaby

    I don`t know why it often seems to be my job to offer support to the miserable, misguided old bastard

    Fisrt point. The primary role of a football club is to be a football club. The second role is to be successful.

    Second point. The basis of most, if not all, economics is a fair days wage for a fair days pay

    Not many footballers, in the modern day, are receiving a fair days wage for a fair days pay. The market has become warped and a lot of clubs wage bills are loading them with unsustainable debt, threatening the very existence of the club. If you rounded up the other 95 chairmen of football league clubs and gave them enough single malt ( truth drug ) I reckon a very high percentage would tell you they admire Bates`s stance on wages

    Choosing Leeds United over Ipswich, which would be the sane choice for any player not entirely motivated by greed, would hardly of jeopardised the financial security of the Keith Andrews family. Fuck him, and his ego, off

    • TSS

      Ridiculous. Wages are relative to division, if we’re not matching what Ipswich can offer then Bates is the problem. Regardless of how many times you try to claim everything is rosy and his one-man crusade is inspired, the reality is, it’s preventing SG from signing his targets, the club is suffering as a consequence and the money is vanishing into thin air. It’s a joke of a situation Mr. Harvey and you know it.

      • Chareose

        @TSS

        spot on

      • WIll23

        @TSS Wages are relative to the division, but budgets are budgets and it is Grayson who decides how he allocates his budget between signing on fees, agent fees, player wages or on loanees.

        Grayson has demonstrably tried to build a squad and has failed.

        Connolly, Bruce, O’Brien, Rachubka, Varynen, Forrsell, Townsend, Pugh etc etc

        His players, his decision to buy or loan, his squad that he has been responsible for putting together over 3 years and where are we now?

        The team is directionless, the tactics poor, and Grayson IS the conductor responsible. No one else. Not Bates.

        TSS, you sound like the old school socialist who believes money grows on trees and that spending others peoples money does not carry any responsibility and that spend, spend, spend is the route to riches.

        The most important thing is buying the right type of players and building up a team….a simple task beyond the capabilities of Grayson who goes from one bad purchase to another…like a drug addict always in need of just one more player, and like Del Boy used to say in “Only Fools and Horses” cries next year we will be millionaires….laughably, Grayson says we’ll be in the top two…not with him at the helm we won’t…but of course, it’s not his fault.

        • Colin

          @WIll23@TSS Will23 has a point here. Not sure I agree fully with the argument, but all I would say is that I don’t have a problem with Grayson signing the likes of Varynen or Forsell (irrespective of whether I rate them as decent players or not) as long as HE PLAYS THEM. They’ve never had a chance to prove themselves and neither are match fit. Don’t sign them if they’re not good enough to play regularly. It’s not fair on the players. And it adds no strength to the team. We’ve got far too many of these players, all on contracts, all soaking up wages.

          And I won’t stand for needing ‘strength in depth’. If we needed a midfielder then we had Zac Thompson, who was used in midfield and now RB. And we obviously didn’t need strength in depth up front with Forsell either, otherwise we wouldn’t have the league’s second top scorer relegated to the bench, which is what Grayson did. If he didn’t need McCormack in the first team, then he didn’t need Forsell as squad depth either.

          It’s all a mess.

      • oldschoolbaby

        Sorry TSS, you are the Gordon Brown of football economics. However, I am grateful that you have managed to encapsulate what is wrong with football in one short sntence “wages are relative to division”. How many clubs have thought that and driven themselves to the brink striving to achieve it. Wages should be a managable percentage of your income. Nothing more.

        What you consistently, and conveniently , forget is that football is our national game and football clubs hold a unique place in the hearts of the communities they represent. Consequently, the taxman, the banks and the administrators go easy on them when they`re technically bankrupt. If this were not the case a number of clubs, quite feasibly including the one we love, would have gone to the wall by now

        The definition of stupidity is making the same mistake twice. You do a very good job of highlighting Bates`s crass stupidity in trying to replicate the “village” project. Yet you don`t spot the perils of REPEATED financial recklessness

        Anyone who thinks Keith Andrews should have been offered more simply because Ipswich offered more needs a holiday in Greece. Although it would be an appropriate metaphor, don`t take the cruise ship !

    • Tyler75

      I’d be nearly convinced if we were spending a managble proportion of our turnover ; 60-70% is the usually quoted figure for ‘sensible’ expenditure – on wages – didn’t recent calculations by this very blog put that figure at less than 30% ?

      • WIll23

        @Tyler75 T75, per the accounts total company wages were 62% of gross profit in the y/e 30 June 2010 compared to 66% in 2009.

        Before player trading we made an Operating LOSS (ie revenue less all costs) of £1.7m in 2010 and a LOSS of £2.8m in 2009. Those losses were covered by profit on player sales, not by cash injections into the club. Wages (the largest expense) were arguably too high, or revenue not high enough – hence the ticket price situation we have).

        If you keep making losses you need to raise cash to cover them.

        The club has to sell to survive unless we get a deep pokected owner.

        http://www.scribd.com/doc/55180500/Leeds-United-Football-Club-Accounts-Year-ended-June-2010

        • Tyler75

          @WIll23 I stand corrected but we’re in the realm of Kenonomics here; god only knows what income he declares and what he doesn’t. A man who lives in Monaco as a tax exile is presumably adept at a certain amount of creative accounting.

        • WIll23

          @Tyler75 The accounts are subject to audit process and LUFC the company, is legally distinct from Bates the man of Monaco.But I understand your view that this is merely a smoke and mirrors type of relationship that we’ll never get behind to properly understand.

          Auditors are fined all the time for poor auditing processes and they still stay in business (eg KPMG, E&Y, PWC). You only have to look at the idiots at KPMG who were tasked with proving the LUFC ownership in the recent past when they were (a joke) administrator and could not do what they were paid to do despite the global nature of their business. Numpties employing numpties…and I deal with them and other large audit firms most days.

          As an ex-auditor I know it is certainly possible for an audit partner to see certain types of corporate payments (“uplifts”) to suppliers as part of the ordinary course of doing business and not raise an eyebrow about arrangements that are far from transparent. Audit partners have large cars and large mortgages to pay and and a lifestyle and a brown-nosing network to maintain in the business community. Who would dare cry wolf on a point of principle? Integrity & the practice of principles has long since left the audit profession.

          So can we trust the auditor of LUFC company accounts? No idea. We all know that plenty of directors take their companies into bankruptcy without being charged with breaking the law and with nice and clean audit reports on their last set of accounts. Limited liability of companies is to blame.

          Oh and audit partners now have limited liability! They know a good thing when they see it…they just needed to bribe enough MPS to get the law changed to allow for limited liability partnerships. As I say, auditors today lack credibility and integrity.

          But none of this proves, or is intended to imply any wrongdoing at LUFC.Bates *has* to be whiter than white. He wants to sell the club for a tidy profit and knows people will be crawling over the books when he comes to sell it.

          My comments are a mere expression of *opinion* (not fact) on the state of the audit profession. Offense to all working in the audit profession is intended however since climbing the corporate ladder at audit firms soon reduces one to unethical practices and a desire to avoid upsetting the income stream, especially on high profile clients. Independent opinion my @rse.

        • Chareose

          @WIll23@Tyler75

          WIII23 you and oldschool are the same guy ???? £25k a year from Ken to post pro Bates rubbish on Leeds forums under multiple names ??

        • WIll23

          @Chareose@Tyler75 ROFL…I wish I was in Bates’s position so I could run the club!!!

  • Colin

    My only concern with Bolton’s interest in Tom Lees is that they have £7m in cash burning a hole in their pocket after the Cahill sale, and financially they’re knackered, they’re financed to the hilt and relegation would destroy Bolton. They’re in the relegation zone and if spending that cash now means they can stay up, then they’ll spend. Add onto that they have some serious long term injuries on their books.

    Though saying that, if I was them I’d go straight for Samba at Blackburn Rovers.

    • Chareose

      they are competing for survival, no way Brownburn rovers would sell to them

    • Dje

      @Colin. I could understand if we sold any of our players except Lees. We clearly need a centre back. I doubt we’ll sign one, but might get a child in on loan. If we sell the one we have with promise and is doing fine for us, then we really are a f****** joke and might as well go watch the Olympics or something until next season. And I hate athletics.

      • Colin

        @Dje @Dje I’d argue that we sold Delph who had more promise than Tom Lees and was doing more than fine. And we sold him. The club said they wouldn’t sell him. They did. We were very very fortunate that Jonny Howson developed and stepped up to the plate and helped to nullify the void that he left.

        We’ve done this before.

        • WIll23

          @Dje@Dje We had to sell Delph. Read the accounts. The business of LUFC *has* to be self-financing. We do not have, like many clubs, a deep-pocketed owner.

        • Dje

          @WIll23 I absolutely agree with the sale of Delph. We were in League One, he was too good, the price was great, but also his playing position was fillable to that standard of league with the likes of Micky Doyle.

          Would we get the same price for Lees? Doubt it (as Bolton only got £7m for Cahill). Is he too good to hold back? Nope, at least another half of a season is well within his interest to learn before any Premiership ambitions. Is his playng position fillable with the squad we have? Absolutely not. Or players we could bring in? Absolutely not, have you seen our transfer record on defenders! And who is to say that we’d spend one penny of the transfer fee on players?

  • Colin

    If Robbie Rogers has to jump through hoops to get a work permit, how can Pattison get a permit if he can’t even get a sniff of a club game in South Africa?

    • Chareose

      to be honest pattison looks really short term, if he was that good hed not be sitting on the bench for his african club, infact hed probably be in the premiership but who knows Somma turned out a nice catch, Larry is trying to find a gem in the rough

    • Dje

      I don’t think he needs one, Colin. He played for Norwich and Newcastle without any caps, and had no permit problems then. Possibly because he moved over here when he was 11?

      • Colin

        @Dje Ah, fair enough.

        BTW – Not good enough for Norwich or Newcastle or Mamelodi Sundowns, but good enough for a trial at Leeds United. Crikey, we’re deperate.

        • Dje

          Least his walkabout career and never-heard of credentials fits our criteria, even his trial doesn’t eventually work out.

          I’m a bit worried that there is two weeks left of the trnasfer window and we are taking these trialists on for a week now. What, are we going to wait a week or two to see if they are any good? Cos if they aren’t we’ve left it very late to go for the targets we should have had lined up weeks ago.

          I’m pretty sure we aren’t going to spend any proper money again, unless we are waiting to sell first?!

        • Colin

          @Dje 100% agree. And can I just ask exactly who this midfielder is going to replace? Is he better than our existing midfield?

          Is he going to take Howson’s place (when back)? No

          Is he going to take Snodgrass’ place? No

          Is he going to take Clayton’s place? No

          Is he going to take our new £500,000 signing Pugh’s place? No

          Is he going to take Aidy White’s place? No

          Is he going to take Andros Townsend’s place? No

          If we get Delph, Is he going to take Delph’s place? No

          So why are we even looking at him? Right now we’ve also got Sam and Varynen and Brown and potentially Zac Thompson fighting (if we find a new RB) for spots as a sub/on the pitch.

          That’s 11 midfielders fighting for (at best 5 spots). What’s the point in adding a 12th to the wage bill?

        • Dje

          I think we both he is only coming ‘just because’. There is no masterplan, only ‘what harm can it do to take a look’.

          If we wanted to be even more depressed about it, I’d plump for lining up Howson’s replacement early, prior to him walking in the summer (because we aren’t going to offer Howson an improved contract of note, and we aren’t going to offer him Premiership football).

          In which case, Pattison better be bloody good.

        • Dje

          colin

          I think we both know he is only coming ‘just because’. There is no masterplan, only ‘what harm can it do to take a look’.

          If we wanted to be even more depressed about it, I’d plump for lining up Howson’s replacement early, prior to him walking in the summer (because we aren’t going to offer Howson an improved contract of note, and we aren’t going to offer him Premiership football).

          In which case, Pattison better be bloody good.

        • Gryff

          @Dje There’s plenty of examples of good players being left out of squads when new managers come: Kilgallon at Sunderland, Ramage at Newcastle, Micah Richards (& Defoe for a time) under Capello in the national squad…

          He was good enough for Norwich. Roeder brought him in and he was one of his main midfielders, but Lambert didn’t rate him (Gunn didn’t really make a stamp on the side). He was a rated youngster at Newcastle but he didn’t fit into the team (which happens frequently – look at Clayts from Man City or McPhail from us to Cardiff).

          He’s not early 20s anymore & I don’t know how good he’d be at Championship leve, but we definitely shouldn’t write him off before he’s kicked a ball.

        • Dje

          @Gryff I agree about not writing him off: ‘what harm can it do to take a look’.

          But I seriously doubt he is as good as Howson. Why? Because Pattison has been playing the last two years in South Africa, his homeland, and has barely registered with their international team. Without doubt, if Howson was South African then he’d be a regular in their international team.

  • Chareose

    Surely WE were the experts on Pies thanks to the likes of Mark Viduka and Tomas (hoover attachment) Brolin >>>???!

  • Colin

    @Chareose Absolutely. And that’s why they’re going to get relegated with their chicken and we’ll get promoted and take their place with our pies.

  • number1inyorkshire

    just reading that leeds have not been in touch with villa ,,lorimer says we are at an advanced stage over delph and that mccleish is gonna be keeping lichaj but no contact has been made about him ..

    then you go down the page on news now and leeds are making a sensational double swoop for the 2 .its madness where these stories come from i suppose we do not know most of the real stories ..

    personally i will have both

  • Snowjoke

    I’m not bothered whether Andrews, Montgomery etc. are mercenaries. If they can help get us up, so what? If they previously turned us down, same applies. These things “ain’t (usually) personal”

    and we really can’t afford to be so fastidious.

    Whither Grayson? A classic case of responsibility without power. Okay – he decides team selection and tactics. But the player recruitment process is so labyrinthine and grudging it resembles a game of snakes and snakes. As a result, his squad is of very mixed quality and the best he can hope is that it will continue to over-achieve. I’m still firmly on his sdie of the barricade. But Dead Man’s Curve is always just around the corner. Must be great for morale throughout the club.

    Two suggestions. Bring back Keogh to run opposition defences ragged and for his selfless all-round game up front. Then offload the lumbering Becchio who looks as if he doesn’t give a toss and has little else to offer now his goals have dried up.

    .

    • silkyswift

      @Snowjoke Agree on Keogh … all scratching their heads about Mcormack not scoring as many and Becchios poor form …. Keogh was excellent running in behind and the channels ,opening space for mcormack and breaking midfielders etc .. thats why we are so static now and cannot break at the pace we were doing early on in the season … Beccs is just not up to it at this level i,m afraid and Keogh should have been retained but then we would have had to spend a few bob ……..

  • number1inyorkshire

    i do hope that BANANA YAYA TURNS UP AT LEEDS if only for the song it will generate

    6ft+at 20 seems leeds are in for this big cameroonian

    • number1inyorkshire

      seems it will be a split decision between us and socheaux

    • Dje

      @number1inyorkshire Seriously?

      He’s played two games in his entire career.

      Neither game was in the English leagues.

      He’d be our most expensive signing under the Bates regime (at least £900,000 apparently).

      I’m pretty sure he only speaks French.

      What could possibly go wrong.

      • number1inyorkshire

        @Dje i know but what a fantastic song coming from the kop wordsmiths .

        you never know he might be worth a punt ,cant see it happening though .what with all these foreigners arriving it reminds me of the reid era back again

        • Dje

          @number1inyorkshire Yeah, the Reid/Venables days – I was thinking the same when I was reading about Banana Yaya. I reckon those days were considerable more despairing than when we had Blackwell/Wise.

        • Dje

          @number1inyorkshire Yeah, the Reid/Venables days – I was thinking the same when I was reading about Banana Yaya. I reckon those days were considerable more despairing than when we had Blackwell/Wise.

        • Dje

          @number1inyorkshire Yeah, the Reid/Venables days – I was thinking the same when I was reading about Banana Yaya. I reckon those days were considerable more despairing than when we had Blackwell/Wise.

        • Dje

          @number1inyorkshire Also, I can just see the confusion the FA is left in with songs that have bananas at the heart of them for a black player. To be fair, ours wouldn’t be read as racist, but you can just see the the trouble every opposing teams set of fans would be in when they mock his abysmal thirty five yard shot on goal. They’d be handing out fines left right and centre … or wait, is that the masterplan to promotion?!

        • Tyler75

          Please let this be true ! It would make the rest of the season significantly more entertaining than its looking like at the moment.

          Matty Pattision, the SA international player we have on trial, allegedly once turned up for training at Norwich, worse for wear, without any of his gear and in his underpants.

        • Dje

          @Tyler75 I hope they leant him some boots but then made him play in his underpants – just like they used to do at school if you forgot/had your PE kit nabbed.

        • number1inyorkshire

          @Tyler75 that is a story his underpants 1 that has been now recognised as an urban myth .when he went to court for drink driving he wasn;t bothered about he fine ,ban etc he just wanted it stated he was clothed the boobys said he was lol

        • number1inyorkshire

          @Dje you can bet your life the club shops will be filled with blow up bananas etc ..

          joking apart i hear he is a a slipper player especially if he has had a skinful before he splits the night before ..

    • Tyler75

      @number1inyorkshire To make a start on the Banana chants (we’ve got to sign him !)

      “He’ll split you in two, he’ll split you in twoooo

      His name is Banana, he comes from Camerooon”

      • number1inyorkshire

        @Tyler75 WHAT ABOUT “BANANAS GONNA SKIN YA”

  • AdamLUFC95

    Could Clayton be on his way out with contract negotiations stutterring??

    • Ron_Galea

      @AdamLUFC95 I have seen enough to not be surprised, but I doubt it. Like any player in the Championship who could play at the top level, I gather he is waiting to see where we are in May. Alarmingly though, this will have a few teams pondering a bid now rather than risk us getting promotion and Clayton inevitably staying put.

  • Tim Campbell

    Do you really for one minute believe kenneth ‘tight arse’ Bates would spend £900k plus on any player never bloody mind his name being Banana Yaya lol