Do Leeds United Really Need Another Winger? TSS January 15, 2012 Transfer News 106 Comments News that Welsh winger Craig Jones is on trial with Leeds United has been met with widespread derision from Whites fans, confused as to why the club think we need another winger with the myriad of options available to Simon Grayson. On paper, it’s a fair point. Ramon Nunez, Lloyd Sam, Robert Snodgrass, Robbie Rogers, Andros Townsend and Danny Pugh should provide the depth we need for two positions. That doesn’t tell the full story however. Firstly, Danny Pugh is a utility player. He’s been played on the wing lately, so most Leeds United fans add him to this list. Long-term however, he’s a more likely candidate for left back or central midfield. He’s a useful player to have because he can slot in almost anywhere the team is short of cover, but he’s primarily a stop-gap to cover the absence of others. That brings us down to five, one of which is a loanee, so should not be factored in at all – especially by those that like to complain about our lack of “long term vision”. Of the other four, one is Ramon Nunez – perhaps the most inconsistent player I’ve ever seen, whose real danger comes as an impact sub played centrally. Definitely not a natural winger and not someone I’d consider for the position at all unless desperate, which we have been at times this season largely as a result of Max Gradel’s deadline day sale. Now we’re left with the pretty much unknown entity that is Robbie Rogers, who hasn’t received a work permit yet so may never actually play for Leeds United and Lloyd Sam, who has played well at times, but looked pretty average for the most part – more squad player than first team regular. You could also factor in Ross McCormack, but he’ll “do a job” on the wing and would only leave us short on strikers if he was to play there long term. Similarly, factoring Aidy White in only creates further gaps elsewhere in the team. Ultimately, what we have is one Robert Snodgrass, a loanee, a player that may never grace Elland Road’s hallowed turf and a distinctly average squad player. Another winger should be considered as much a priority as any full-back or central defender because we’ve suffered all season after failing to replace Max Gradel. Admittedly, Craig Jones’ record in the Welsh Premier League doesn’t count for much at all, but then nor did Robert Snodgrass’ in the SPL. Plucking players from obscurity is what you have to do on such a limited budget, and there’s nothing to say Jones won’t be just as successful as those that came before him. Fans should also remember that this is nothing more than a trial. It might work out, it might not, but if it does, he’ll be a low risk gamble on a relatively low wage. The fact we have Craig Jones with us at the minute does not mean the club aren’t looking at central defenders and full-backs, it just means the press have picked up on his trial and that’s all we’re hearing about at present. Dje Nothing to lose from having a back-up plan if the American doesn’t get his work permit. What type of winger we use is also dependent on whether we are playing 4-4-2, 4-5-1, or 4-3-3. That in itself could require six different styles of wingers. Dje Either that or Grayson is having a laugh at Bates’s expense by trying to bump up the size of our squad?! morleywhite Aparantly Bradley Orr from QPR is getting frustrated with lack of first team opportunities he would be a good addition saw him play afew times for QPR last season at right back in championship hes a good attacking full back and kind of player we should be looking at,hes also got the experience of getting out of this league. dh lufc Or maybe the push for wingers is to cover for the sale of Snodgrass? That might also explain the rush to get him back playing in January before the window closes? Dje @dh lufc Personally I can’t see it. His contract is not running out this summer so he will cost any club a few million. January is the quieter of the two transfer windows and I imagine Snodgrass would not want to jump to a lower Premiership team whilst we are still in with a shout to go up. If we don;t go up then a transfer request is likely to follow in the summer. Two months ago I’d say there was more likelihood of McCormack getting snapped up; now I’d say Aidy White is likely to go – with Bates wanting to cash in now before he walks for a free in the summer. That’d peg Pugh back to left-back and we’d be down to two proper wingers – Snodgrass and Townsend – one ‘pending’ (Rogers), and two not-proper wingers: McCormack and Nunez. Dje @dh lufc Sorry, forgot Sam. If Rogers gets the go green light, then that’s curtains for Sam, IMHO, and he’ll be off to Huddersfiled, Tranmere or the like. TSS @Dje@dh lufc If Snoddy is sold – and it’s a realistic enough possibility – it’ll be the end of the season. Not only would it cause uproar amongst fans, players and manager alike, it would damage season ticket sales too. Bates isn’t an idiot – well, not when it comes to bleeding us dry anyway. Chareose @TSS@Dje@dh lufc I said exactly the same thing before we sold Gradel……….. TSS @Chareose@Dje@dh lufc Fair point. I had similar views as well. Gradel was at his own request however. I doubt Snoddy would want to leave Elland Road, he’s genuinely loved it here since day one and isn’t the kind of player to have his head turned by bigger clubs. His history stands testament to that. Chareose @TSS@Dje@dh lufc cmon mate, that was the political line Bates wanted you to beleive…… Yes Gradel may have been interested in going back to France but a decent wage and some ambition would have kept him at elland road its not like England is far from France if your earning a decent wage ! Part of the deal will have been to keep his trap shut. Any player will leave elland road if they think they can get better wages and the club is going no where. TSS @Chareose@Dje@dh lufc I don’t know. Too easy to point the finger at Bates sometimes. Gradel requested a transfer at the beginning of the window, citing his family as reason. That’s not too hard to believe, is it? I’ve just moved to London and am already missing Leeds. The biggest fault of the club was not finalising a deal sooner. It seemed a little too convenient for me that Gradel left on deadline day, with no time to replace him, despite the club knowing he wanted to leave all along. We were even told he wouldn’t be sold at one point. For all that, I can certainly fault Bates and co. But I can’t prove otherwise with the homesick excuse so will give him the benefit of the doubt there. TSS @Chareose@Dje@dh lufc I don’t know. Too easy to point the finger at Bates sometimes. Gradel requested a transfer at the beginning of the window, citing his family as reason. That’s not too hard to believe, is it? I’ve just moved to London and am already missing Leeds. The biggest fault of the club was not finalising a deal sooner. It seemed a little too convenient for me that Gradel left on deadline day, with no time to replace him, despite the club knowing he wanted to leave all along. We were even told he wouldn’t be sold at one point. For all that, I can certainly fault Bates and co. But I can’t prove otherwise with the homesick excuse so will give him the benefit of the doubt there. Chareose @TSS@Dje@dh lufc true i think that sometimes but then when you try and think “well maybe Ken is trying to do the right thing” you see something that blatantly says the opposite The man despises Leeds fans and by definition Leeds united. You only have to read his programme notes to deduce that. Hes here for a pay day….. skim off a few million as we go, keep us running at a decent level for zero investment in order to get a big fat cheque from a buyer like Roman abramovich. All i hope for is that day or the day Ken pops his clogs ! Chareose agree with DH unfortunately…… the extra winger is probably to cover the sale of Robert Snodgrass again for an undisclosed sum that will be filtered into Ken Bates pocket. Its funny that Ken keeps going on about the fact that the funds for Gradel and Schmeichel and now Kebbie all go into the pot for Graysons transfer spending yet we see ZERO large scale player purchases and poor wage structure….. How long before the rest of the Leeds fans wake up to reality ? Matthew @Chareose To be fair, every Leeds fan with a braincell dislikes Bates. Even fans of other teams too when they saw his ticket price structure, mostly due to being overcharged but the kind of words they were associating with Bates were hilarious, although rude. TSS @Chareose I think some just don’t want to face reality and are all to happy to lap up his excuses. After all the shit we’ve been through, they don’t want to believe he’s not the saviour they want him to be. I can understand that in some ways. Dje @Chareose If we were to be imminently selling Snodgrass for millins, wouldn’t we be lining up a more tried and tested replacement? Some Welsh lad from mighty TNS, and an opportunist Yank?! ps. The yank is very unlikely in my eyes: Klinsmann: “Agh, ja, he’s gud, I’ll be playing him in der Amerikana team one day. Promise!” Work Permit Board: “OK, come back to us in a year’s time when you’ve played himand we might accept then. Promise!” TSS @Dje@Chareose Yeah, I’m with you mate. These panels are tricky so I’m not as confident as Leeds United appear to be. Chareose @Dje Dje, your thinking logicaly and from the best interests of the club. BATES doesnt have the best interests of the club !! Grayson is getting what he can get for peanuts which is…………..peanuts. Do you honestly think if or when Snodgrass, Lees, White, Clayton move on (probably this summer) that Bates will put forward the funds capable of replacing them like for like or better ?? We were in the driving seat to keep Gradel, a decent champ wage and a promise of a nice buff up if we gained promotion would have kept him. Bates sold him, pocketed the money and gave Gradel a golden handshake to keep his trap shut. END OF Dje @Chareose Cynic as I am, I’m less committed as your good self on this one. If Bates was really in it just to farm players for profit then ALL the good players would be gone: Snodgrass, Becchio, Howson, Clayton, McCormack, Somma, Lonergen, and not just Gradel. He’d have had Beckford, Johnson and Kilkenny on contracts three years in advance and by selling them with two years left, not letting them walk away on a free. In their place would be kids form the academy, pimping them out to sniffing clubs. Instead we’ve under-used our youth players and mostly kept them away from sniffing groomers, ie. re: Kebbie. If that was Bates’ game plan then we’d be probably propping up League One – as the revenue and price of tickets he’d charge would be about the same as it is in the Championship. As much As I dislike him and want rid, the way I see it, Bates wants us in the Premiership on a lower Championship budget. For that he is a dreamer. But he does want us IN the Premiership all the same. Why? One, THAT’s how he makes his killing out of Leeds. And two, that’s were he’ll find the bigger media limelight that he craves. To get there even on his piss-poor budget Bates is aware that he has to keep some top cards in his hand, and doesn’t cash them all in on the first hand. Sorry, I reckon I’m with the majority: neither a Bates apologist, but nor a Bates-is-the-antichrist either: just a very, very poor chairman to have. Chareose @Dje For me Bates isnt that bothered about getting to the Premiership, if he gets there he will be under even more preassure to spend money, a lot of money………surely hes contented to keep the cash cow running a tight ship as an average Championship club UNTIL a big buyer comes calling and lines Kens pockets Dje @Chareose The money income difference is so spectacular that I’d be amazed if he didn’t want to be in the Premiership as soon as possible. As a sleeping giant we are one of many in this division. Potential dodgy foreign owners aren’t that taken with taking a gamble on us. Get us in the Premiership and every other delusional millionaire will think they will come calling. That’s Bates pay-day, that’s when he’s looking for another Abramovich (although I doubt he’ll be so lucky twice in one life). Whatever he’s taking out of the club at the moment is peanuts in comparison. Throw in the parachute payments for three season if we came back down and he’s laughing. TSS @Dje@Chareose I agree, he definitely wants us in the Prem. I can’t dispute that, and never would. I find the suggestion that he doesn’t laughable considering the amount of money he stands to make once promoted. The ridiculous thing about the argument is that it’s based around money. The way I understand the theory is that Bates doesn’t want us in the Prem because he makes a fortune in the Championship. Yet he’d make more in the Prem, so are fans suggesting he doesn’t want to make more money? It doesn’t make sense. The East Stand boxes are a prime example of why he needs us in the Prem. Add in the 20,000 empty seats and you can see the money-making potential this club has, but none of that is achievable in the Championship. The problem is, like Dje says, he’s trying to get us there on a shoestring and it doesn’t work. Not unless you keep your top players and we’ve continually failed to do that, rebuilding the squad year-on-year. I can only conclude that the man is a complete idiot. Chareose @Dje Dje, your thinking logicaly and from the best interests of the club. BATES doesnt have the best interests of the club !! Grayson is getting what he can get for peanuts which is…………..peanuts. Do you honestly think if or when Snodgrass, Lees, White, Clayton move on (probably this summer) that Bates will put forward the funds capable of replacing them like for like or better ?? We were in the driving seat to keep Gradel, a decent champ wage and a promise of a nice buff up if we gained promotion would have kept him. Bates sold him, pocketed the money and gave Gradel a golden handshake to keep his trap shut. END OF dh lufc mmm fair comment, I just worry that Snodgrass is a class above the rest of the squad and has plenty of goals in him, many a prem club would be interested, the other players are more of a gamble, Dje @dh lufc I agree Snodgrass is better than the rest, but that only means more millions would be required. Chelsea and Man City aside, few Premeirship clubs will be doing big deals right now. The lesser value players are better pickings for poorer teams (Bolton connected with Clayton, Lees; Arsenal with White, Wolves and Wigan with McCormack). Greedy as Bates is, he wont undersell a player, especially one who is a slave to the club for the next 18 months. Snodgrass is too much of a mid-Premiership player for bargain hunting prices. Lets agree to both hope he stays. Irving08 @Dje@dh lufc Snodgrass – mid-premiership ? I rate him higher than that – Strachan excepted, I think he’s the best wide man we’ve had since Lorimer and Gray. I reckon he would have pushed hard to get into Revie’s team. He has the toughness and killer instinct that Eddie lacked though, of course, not his change of pace, and while Snoddie’s dribbling skills are considerable, Eddie’s were sublime. Dje @dh lufc I’m not sure mid-Premiership is that much of a slur is it?! Everton, Newcastle, Liverpool, Villa. Good solid teams. On their day they might pay up to £8m for him – if he ends the season as he has started it. But Snodgrass hasn’t the pace and isn’t young enough these days to interest Chelsea or Man City or United. His and our best prospects are to get promoted together and try and re-instate ourselves as to a mid-Premiership standard. Gryff @Dje@dh lufc The pace is the one thing for me. If he had pace he’d be at a top-5 club in weeks. As it is, it’s almost like having a mid-30s David Beckham… Dje @Irving08 I agree on all points. My ‘mid-Premiership’ ranking is essentially all those clubs not in the top 5: ie. not Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal or the new Liverpool, Tottenham (Liverpool had it, lost it, and have yet to refind it), but neither in likely to be in any relegation fight. Tyler75 @Gryff@Dje@dh lufc Depends if he’s permanently seen as an out and out winger or not – ultimately I think his best position will be playing off a main striker or at the tip of a midfield diamond – sort of Frank Lampard but less obnoxious and with more skill. Dje @Tyler75 Sounds good! Jmo I think Snoddy will be a gonner sadly. Unless him, Howson & White sign new contracts which are unlikely to be fair. I’d sign the guy and we can loan him out to a lower league club like we did with Somma. Still worried about the Lack of ins and more importantly outs.. We need rid of loads of dead wood. Personally Connolly, Sam, Rachubka, O’brien, Paynter, Bromby, Brown. The problem you have is there are no freebies available now so obviously you would have to pay transfer fees which Mr Bates doesn’t like doing. TSS @Jmo Connolly’s been solid enough for me – more a victim of the injury crisis invoked poor defending than anything. Leigh Bromby is an adequate squad player too. Agree on the rest, but these are the kind of players you end up with when the club don’t invest. Unless that changes, it’s pointless. Tyler75 @TSS@Jmo Connolly’s solid enough going forward supporting Snods and he’s got a decent cross on him but he gets slaughtered by speedy wingers and has all the positional sense of a traffic cone. Gryff I think, aged 22 and with his entire history in the lower leagues, this is more a youngster/Beckford style signing than anything else… TSS @Gryff 24 and his history is in Wales. You’ve got the wrong player (I did the same thing) Gryff @TSS fair enough. lol I think, aged 24 and with his entire history in Wales (which is as skillful as the lower leagues!), this is more a Beckford style signing than anything else…. (I don’t think anyone noticed!) TSS @Gryff Haha, no. Solid recovery. He doesn’t have a Wiki page, I was totally stumped. I’ve added a link above to the article revealing this news. Gryff @TSS lol. Thanks. He’ll have one within a few hours, I bet. ChicagoWhite Cantcross Townsend loanee & also very wasteful with the ball will return to Suds reserves at the end of the season I can now see why spuds let him out on loan because he is a very very long way off ever starting for them (if ever). Lloyd Sam is a D3 player was brought in as cover & also as player we could afford if last season we struggled & went straight back down, Sam will be offloaded in the summer. Snoddy will not be at LUFC next season maybe even sooner that is a fact unless we somehow get promoted even then I still doubt it as the expected pay raises IMO will not be forthcoming (same also applies for White & Howson). Nunez plays & starts on the RW mostly for Honduras in the Gold Cup where RN won MVP that’s where he started most games & reverted to the slot behind there main striker depending on how the games progressed, he is not going to start on the RW for Leeds if RS is available to start but we may see him play in that position this season & most probably next assuming he can make it at Leeds. Robbie Rogers & the latest player on trial are not for this season they are being looked at for annual squad rebuild this summer (under Bates & his policies we have to rebuild the squad annually). if Rogers does get his work permit & he then shows promise he may displace cantcross or even snods. TSS @ChicagoWhite You’re right about the squad rebuild – it’s a common theme of Bates’ era. Disagree on Townsend. He wasn’t great against Arsenal, but he had no support, there was little he could do. It was too predictable, Arse simply swarmed him every time he got ball. V Burnley and Palace he was better. Solid addition to the squad in my opinion, but needs support like any winger. Just not seeing Nunez as a winger. Not sure how Honduras play, but he can’t help move central. He seems more naturally suited to AM. His control has been letting him down more than anything else lately though. Gryff @TSS@ChicagoWhite Indeed, did exactly the same with Snoddy the year before. Phil Glenn No we need a goalkeeper and some decent defenders. Sean O’Toole No Chris Bates Out Gibbons No Matthew Wright No Jimmy Augustus Ward yes we need to get rid of nunez and get someone decent in his place Peter Connick I agree with Phil but I think Simon has run out of ideas & Neil Warnock will be boss in the near future. He may not be popular with the fans but his record of getting the clubs he’s managed promoted is great. Patrick Hinton Could this guy be a contingency incase the Rogers hearing goes badly? The Scratching Shed Neil Warnock requires cash to succeed – which he won’t get from Bates – and his record is nowhere near as good as SG’s when you consider how long they’ve both been in the game. SG already has two promotions to his name (two and half if you count the Blackpool squad he built making the Prem). Jerry Smith when he left blackpool they were 5th bottom not his side and no way helped them get, promotion and we fell out of div 1 Thomas Mc Veigh Give him another three years to sort out the defence The Scratching Shed The defence has been a result of injury. People ignore the games where it’s been solid (mainly when O’Dea and Lees have been fit) and concentrate on the others. The Scratching Shed People also forget the defence was solid in our promotion year. We’ve been plagued by constant injury ever since. Marc Bracha sell Nunez and Sam. JordanToal i think ramon nunez is a good player ? , i think we could do with another midfielder of two , fabien delph and sammy clingan both linked Matthew @JordanToal Nunez is very inconsistant at the moment, that will improve with time. During his stay with Scunthorpe last season he was literally man of the match against QPR, bossed the midfield and was instrumental in the thrashing they gave QPR. WoodyUK Where can be the harm in giving a player a trial with no commitment. If he catches the eye and Leeds fancy a gamble it’s no different to what we’ve done previously with Somma, Kandol, Beckford, Grella and to certain extent Clayton. Almost definately not a player for this season but a low risk gamble for the future. number1inyorkshire @WoodyUK there is no harm other than it adds a player to the squad that people are moaning is too big already ,and of course his wages .if he is not going to play this season what is the point we need some quality now not in 2 seasons alright get both to build ,but the priority has to be the here and now Dje @number1inyorkshire No.1, simple really. If the lad is good enough for either the Championship or the Premiership then he gets offered a contract (though probably not a very lucrative one), if not he doesn’t get one and probably gets a little nod and phone call from LUFC to see if Chesterfield or Oldham are interested in him. If he is good enough, this season or next (as we are likely still to be in the Championship), then Sam might as well pack his bags because he’s a so-so Championship/ good League One player, a level we have already surpassed. TSS @number1inyorkshire@WoodyUK Very short termist approach you have there Number1. Bates must love you. Leeds’ squad is NOT that big and our wage bill is pathetic. Lowest wages to turnover ratio of any club in this division. Surely you’re not buying into Bates’ nonsense now? We can’t afford to lose you. Come back towards the light… number1inyorkshire @TSS@WoodyUK i did say buy for the future and infact i did that at length on another post . but its Jan ,4 months of a season left to get up .so we need quality NOW .if its a toss up between a player for next season and 1 for now there can only be 1 winner number1inyorkshire @TSS@WoodyUK forgot to mention bates hates me he told me his words were far worse than calling me a moron trust me ,oh and he said “people like me” i had more abuse from bates than i got from a coach load of rugby players at closing time ,and trust me i told him the same back , Matthew @TSS@number1inyorkshire@WoodyUK My one complaint is that we have a large squad full of deadwood, I would rather see the squad sheet full of decent players, rather than a dozen decent and more than a dozen crap players. But alas with Graysons budget there is no way to avoid the crap players at the moment, we ever hit, we have 3 or more duds. lol Oxford White Gary Speed? number1inyorkshire BUT why have they not picked upon any defenders on trial (the press) surely defenders on trial are equally as low risk as strikers or wingers on trial ,and there must be some who are equally worth a trial in the lower or welsh leagues . we are not firing at bothe ends really but are real problems are at the back ,who knows whats happening but i think come 1st of feb if there are no quality additions in all areas of the pitch the knock on effect with gates etc could be massive and of course promotion .. Just another word on a player that keeps getting a mention NUNEZ we have a bit of a love affair with him i suppose cos he scored 2 great goals at donny ,people keep saying he is a replacement for gradel some say an impact sub ,well this is my opinion and probably only mine ,but i think he is neither and neither do i think he ultimately will be good enough to hold down a subs place on a regular basis never mind a starting birth .because he is sorry n all that shite Tyler75 Terry Yorath ? Brian Flynn ? Byron Stevenson………….ok I’ll stop number1inyorkshire @Tyler75 gareth bale oh sorry that was a dream Oxford White Ginny Jones! Oxford White Vinny Jones Irving08 @Tyler75 Brian Flynn, decent player and a nice bloke, was not good enough to go with Currie – hell, Souness was available at the same time. Stevenson likewise, though we sold him. Carl Harris – flattered to deceive. Alan Curtis – could do a lot of things, but not score a goal. Terry Yorath did not last long at Leeds, though he did not deserve the barracking he got from fans. And post-Revie we do go nowhere, except gradually down. To my mind, the club settled for a quieter life under Gentleman Jim, and until Kenny Burns arrived (too late), tended to recruit, shall we say, the less combative type of player. Sorry I forgot about Gary – I always thought of him as Engish ! But he is the – outstanding – exception. Tyler75 On the subject of non-league players in Wales – there’s a centre back at Wrexham called Nat Knight-Percival, he’s 25 and only recently moved to CB from midfield, but looks very very decent – quite a few League clubs are already looking at him. They’ve also got a right-back called Curtis Obeng who is an England U-19 international and used to be in the youth team at City with Clayts and is so quick he’d stuff Aidy at 100m. OnOnOn I’ve seen Obeng play this season for Wrexham, away at Bath City. He ain’t that quick. Infact he couldn’t get the better of Bath’s debutant left-back that evening! Tyler75 @OnOnOn He may have been having an off day ! Saw him vs Brighton in the Cup and he left Lua Lua standing on more than one occasion. number1inyorkshire just reading through news now seems aside from jones ,clingan ,orr and beckford and montgomery are being lined up ,with clayton and lees off to bolton ,oh and warnock is in the frame when bates sacks grayson .who write half this crap TSS @number1inyorkshire Clingan and Monty linked every window. Wouldn’t hold your breath there. Beckford rumour makes no sense. We could only have him on loan (he’s played for two clubs already this season) and Leicester aren’t going to a loan a player to a team competing for the same play-off spots. As for Orr. Possible I suppose, but we’ll see. Not convinced by any of the rumours personally. number1inyorkshire @TSS never hold my breath when it comes to leeds and signings i agree ,which is why i said who writes this crap ,no thoughts on Warnock then?? TSS @number1inyorkshire I refuse to add further pressure to the players and manager by helping to spread that nonsense. Won’t happen, we’ve taken 4 points from the last two games – it doesn’t matter how you earn them, it’s as Bates says “football is a results business”. Just need some fresh blood in to help us with injury, fitness and form problems and this will be forgotten about in no time. Grayson is still the man to take us forwards. Irving08 @TSS@number1inyorkshire Surely it matters, in the scheme of things, that we got them against 10 men and, in one case, only thanks to a spilt ball. Of course, we’ll happily take the points, but over a season the best- and best managed – teams tend to come out on top. TSS Precisely. Well put. TSS Precisely. Well put. TSS Precisely. Well put. saltzby At one time we would have been in the market for Billy Sharp a striker who would be an ideal replacement for the misfiring Becchio. I understand he is not going to Leicester and is staying with Donny til the summer. However I know we will have as much chance signing him as I have of scoring a goal at wembley or in a world cup final. This is not the Leeds Utd of old. we only go for rubbish like Sam and Paynter now.. SAWhite Now then… that old rumour has found it’s way to Australia…..a mate of mine was drinking with a few business colleagues in Brisbane (sounds true already)… and one of them was over from the UK, and is good friends with Mr bates, he said there is no way Leeds will go up this year, if that happened the club would have to pay out a heap in old debt, it’s the last year it can happen…. so next year it is… makes sense in the way we bring or don’t bing in players… he also said Bates is good fun to go out and have a few drinks with ??? number1inyorkshire @SAWhite i believe that rumour to be the 1 thing that is holding us back ,The embarrassment payments from admin are millions of pounds £5 million + it was written into the creditors agreement when they voted . As it happened in admin the leeds creditors did well in the end ,if there is such a thing in theses circumstances,but this is still Bates raping the people financially who helped the club before .Not sure about the circumstances of the night out in brisbane .. Makes you wonder if this is true and if the powers that be at E R know this namely Grayson etc ,because that is almost cheating in 1 way or another . would be funny though if by accident we went up this season Matthew @number1inyorkshire The money you get from being promoted would more than cover any outstanding club debt. number1inyorkshire when you get promoted to the premier league someone in a suit just doesn’t turn up with 60 million quid you do not get all that money up front if any . Its called an embarrassment payment for a reason .if bates at the time said leeds are worth this they will not get promote for a number of years based on what i have seen ,then if you do get promoted before the number of years stated then you are seen to be taking the piss in real terms .. So the 5 million +quid is a significant amount of money to be loosing at the start of going up . it will be seen to bates as his bit of money making from the admin instead of paying it to the creditors in the 1st place . it will hurt him hard to pay that money out Matthew @number1inyorkshire Pretty sure we’d be okay there. Promotion + Plastics buying season tickets(Increased ER attendance, likely full house) + Plastics buying shirts. Plus TV money, and we’re golden. Look at Swansea, they sold their entire seasons allocation of shirts in a weekend after being promoted as the plastics suddenly turned up. Almost certain we’d get a home attendance near enough capacity thanks to the plastics, we’d also have increased ticket prices too. Which is why Bates wants promotion so bad, your income literally doubles. Gryff @number1inyorkshire@SAWhite The deal was upped from 5 years to 10 years in order for Bates to keep off challenges. That would mean if this great friend of ol’ Kenneth said what he did, he’d be 4-5 years off?… Dje @SAWhite I’m pretty sure that debt payment clause expired at the end of last season. I could be wrong mind! b Do we need another winger? If we are selling Snodgrass (which i fear) then yes. Why else are we signing so many wingers now? As for Bates well all i can clearly see that he is trying to get planning permission to build a hotel and shopping mall at ER (planning app at Leeds city council) and once you get planning permission you have a maximum of 2 years to start construction (i am in the construction industry).So its clear to me his plans when he gets hold of more money. Matthew We don’t need to sell Snodgrass, he’s with us till the end of next season, so there is no rush, and besides Ken Bates can’t be that stupid if he thinks this team can go up without Snodgrass, unless in his old age he thinks you can go up with Pixie dust and some bippity boppity boo. Dje I think ‘b’s’ point was that with planning permission for hotel+shopping mall Bates will be spending the next year or two ploughing money, time and effort into developing hat, rather than the team (ie. more of the same, just on a bigger scale). That would be his biggest interest for creating money out of LUFC, not any immediate promotion to the Premiership. If so, put your feet up lads as we’re going nowhere for the next three years. Unless I’m mistaken, if we lay aside rumours about who ACTUALLY owns Elland Road for a second and say we don’t (only rent it at a great cost), we do still own the land around it. If so, then I wouldn’t be surprised if he developed a hotel and shopping mall complex with an eye to move the club out of Elland Road in a few year’s time. Land is cheaper elsewhere to build a new stadium and why else develop the whole area when you don’t own Elland Road – only pay the rent. A new stadium elsewhere would leave Elland Road as a vacuous relic that no one would be willing to rent (I can’t see Leeds Carnegie or Leeds Tykes thinking they could fill a 40,000 stadium). At which point it’s land value ebbs away and I imagine Bates would come in sniffing to buy it relatively cheaply to then develop it as an extension of his Besston shopping mall/hotel complex. Exciting times for Bates, just not for us fans. Gryff @Dje There is the technical point that we’d be due the increased value in any sale (though how you deduce that exact sum…?) But your point makes a lot of sense otherwise. Apart from Project Meccano. Why spend £7mil on the East Stand, why not just go straight into the club-owned areas? number1inyorkshire see the delph thing has hit the papers apparently 6-7clubs in for him ,usual suspects ,westham ,burnley etc etc ,,we have to be favs for this surely Matthew @number1inyorkshire Seems whoever we go for attracts the interest of other clubs, kinda funny. If only someone could leak that lots of clubs want Paynter, yeah it’d be false information but we’d get rid of the useless lump. Gryff @number1inyorkshire Heard Huddersfield and Peterborough are both interested depending on how much Leeds want for him. Also Poyet still likes him but his board won’t let him spend the required fee because Paynter didn’t score much on his loan (more to football than goals…) Gryff @number1inyorkshire … Alright, not really! But it sounded plausible lol Tyler75 Apparently we’re getting South African midfielder Matthew Pattison on trial – he used to play for Norwich and Newcastle – I’ve never heard of him – anybody got a clue as to what he’s like ? Gryff @Tyler75 I knew a bit about him because I lived in Norwich when he was there. Only saw a handful of games he was in though, but from what I know of him he’s probably best described as a cross between BJ & Howson – he’s athletic and doesn’t mind a tackle like Johnson, and has the passing ability of Howson (which we’re really sorely lacking at the moment). He’s a bit short, so we’d struggle with him defending set-pieces but he’s got serious passing technique that makes up for it. I would wonder about his discipline though because of the drink-driving thing that happened when he was at Norwich, but Grayson’s kept McCormack on the straight and narrow so far… Irving08 In my view, we don’t need more wingers, what we need is Andy Keogh back; he was the only striker we had pre-Xmas capable of playing effectively in any of the formations SG wishes to adopt. It doesn’t much matter that he scored few goals: he made them for others, and by his intelligent play, created space for the likes of Snoddy and Macca to move into. (from his interview on Yorkshire Radio it is plain that Snodds rated him,) Was it just money that sent him back ? Or hoping against hope on Becchio (and more hoof ball) ? Whatever the reason, it’s disappointing not to hear more fuss being made about his departure. Dje 1. We might have someone else lined up in his place. 2. We could be playing hardball with Wolves. Saying he is too much for us, until we make a derisory take-it-or leave it offer of £250k in the last few hours of the transfer window. Gryff @Dje It sounded like Leeds weren’t expecting much of a fee, and with the dire performances of late Grayson is looking to make more signings than previously planned. That’d mean Keogh missing out. I agree on Keogh, but a) what would his wages be like? b) would we have to pay more than 500k? c) isn’t a proper target man (not Becchio) more what we need for competition w/ McCormack and Somma for us in Keogh’s style. I guess if Grayson’s job depends on immediate promotion not long-term building, he’s not going to go for Keogh who improves the team but doesn’t bring direct results. Dje @Gryff a.) Not sure about his wages. He’d probably have to take a paycut – but considering he was mouthing off about wanting to join Leeds whilst with us I’m sure he’d have a clue about our wage policy and find that acceptable. b.) £1m was what Wolves were pushing for. I reckon we might have got them down to £5-600,000. By the end of the transfer window maybe £3-400,000 might do it. That’d be a bargain. But inbetween, saving £6-700,000 whilst considering other strikers for a few weeks seems a good strategy. Besides, Becchio might hit form! c.) I guess. Although Keogh is a far better target man than either McCormack or Somma. A lot better. Hulse keeps getting banded about as being available. He was OK when he was with us before, but has he improved? Has he aged? GMAN147 Craig Jones is quality, easily Championship standard. Grayson has been doing his scouting here and has found an absolute gem who won’t cost much to buy from TNS.