Frustration builds amongst Leeds United fans TSS August 8, 2011 Leeds United 60 Comments Both Ken Bates and Simon Grayson are coming under fire from Leeds United fans following a summer of disappointment and a 3-1 hammering at newly promoted Southampton. Fans frustrations have intensified so much that a protest against Ken Bates has been organised for Leeds United’s game against Middlesbrough this coming weekend – a game in which the Whites owner will be in attendance. Some Leeds United fans are even calling for the head of Simon Grayson, despite two successful seasons that have seen Leeds United finish 2nd in League One and rejoin the Championship with a respectable 7th place finish. It’s understandable that Simon Grayson will be a target for blame when the team perform as badly as they did on Saturday, but to fix any problem, you have to get to the root cause. Ken Bates’ misplaced priorities have us spending £7m to keep 50 people warm behind a protective sheet of glass in the East Stand. When purchasing tickets or buying a Leeds United replica kit, do you do so in the hope that it’ll provide a box to keep those much richer than yourself away from yourself? Or do you do so in the hope that it’ll help improve the only thing any of us really care about – ie. the squad? Going back to Southampton, the new signings made little impact and Simon Grayson must take some responsibility for that. But you have to remember, these aren’t the signings our manager had in mind at the end of last season. Off the top of my head, we lost Keith Andrews to Ipswich Town because our wage cap wasn’t competitive enough. After a summer of trying we still haven’t been able to sign Nick Montgomery from League One Sheffield United because Bates won’t pay more than a couple of hundred thousand for an experienced Championship player. Wages were again a problem with Alan Smith and Jonathan Spector and the list of those we’ve missed out on goes on and on… Had we started with the afore mentioned players on Saturday, the chances are it’d have been a totally different game. Free transfers and loan signings don’t work, but what other choice does Simon Grayson have when the chairman isn’t providing him with the funds to bring in the players he wants? He’s being forced to settle for second, third and fourth choices like the rest of us. The most ridiculous thing about Bates’ wage-cap is that it ruins his own go-to excuse – that whilst Leeds United might not be shelling out millions on transfer fees, we can attract a better quality of player because of our wage structure. Really? Is that why Ipswich Town are now outdoing us? I understand that the wages of the players we have brought in costs us millions of pounds every year, but is that any different from the rest of the clubs in this division? Does Bates think that when the rest of the teams pay a £1m fee for a player, that the player plays out of the goodness of his own heart and doesn’t take a wage? Wages are relative to the division and everyone has to pay them if they want a team of footballers to run around for 90 minutes on a Saturday afternoon. The excuse that we’re wasting money on other players is nonsense. Had Ken Bates provided the transfer funds for better players in the first place, we probably wouldn’t have half the players we’ve had to settle for. So blame Simon Grayson if it helps you sleep better at night, but do you really think the next manager will have any more success when he can’t bring in the players he wants because Ken Bates is too busy expanding a stadium we don’t own? As I said at the start of this rant, to fix any problem you have to get to the root cause. That root cause has been the same for many years now. It’s the same man who got us relegated, sent us into administration twice, labels fans as dissidents and sick-pots, has HMRC seeking revenge and who, after six and half years in charge, has failed in his promise to repurchase Thorp Arch and Elland Road and has failed to get one of the biggest clubs in English football back into the Premier League. Picture courtesy of The Beaten Generation. Visit the Facebook Page for more information on the Bates Out protest. @smarcbarter That sums up my feelings on Bates & Grayson about as perfectly as anything I have read since saturday's woeful performance. TSS Glory, Glory Leeds United brilliantly rewritten – http://unmemorablemusings.tumblr.com/post/8641640… Barry A good article, but don't blame Simon. Barry mattbb1 Well said TSS, I'm sure you speak for a lot of fans with the above. Bates seems to think we're all gullible enough to believe his tripe about not being prepared to spend more than couple of hundred thousand on a wage fee, but the breathtaking arrogance, and indeedlack of respect to fans is incredible. a £7m white elephant staring them in the face, set in contrast to the paper thin squad at present which wouldnt look out of place at Huddersfield (offence intended to them lol) But never mind that insult to the fans – we expect that, what sickens me is that for the first time in years we have a manager who really cares about Leeds, and to my mind whose good nature and reputation are being trounced by the chairman, that is the most sickening thing of all. Disrespect the manager – and what message does that send to the players = a dischordant and split dressing room. Time Bates sold up, there are so many echoes here of Doug Ellis at Aston Villa,.. and Rnady Lerner had to pay way over the odds to buy them too, but it seems thats the payday Bates is waiting for. Dave Howson A good posting, But Simon I feel does his best with whats available, Saturday was one game ! Southampton – along with Brighton too, (Gus we know is a great motivator) will do well this year, West Ham – Everybodys favourites lost to Cardiff, who this summer lost their main strike partnership and key players, Lets see over the first dozen games how things pan out. I certainly don't think demos against KB will enthuse the players to a better performance at the Boro – Lets all remain positive and back the boys…..This championship season will be fantastic for the spectator -and tough for Leeds, but they won't be on their own. They will do better with the great support we can give them… Mags Musgrove early days yet, BUT a manager is only as good as the team play. wen we play good then SG IS A GOD, wen we're bad, then SG is a bad manager, i feel sori for him, GET BATES OUT OF THIS CLUB, thats wot is needed….. TSS Hi Mags, aren't you the one Bates banned for celebrating? Peterv Great to hear that its all down to Bates and that Grayson is a great manager. Who picks the players ( Paynter, Mcshefferey (and he cost about £10k per week), Bessone, Collins etc etc), who trains the players, who decides the tactics ( remember away V Swansea last year), who picks the team and who motivates it. Interestingly there is only one poorer owner in the top two divisions than Ken Bates and that's the Swansea chairman. Oh they got promoted without paying a fortune, no Grayson has to take his fair share of the blame. @superjhoops Seen Bates spending £1m on Scott Sinclair, because I haven't. TSS Root cause mate. These players you mention are what we're forced to settle for when Bates doesn't provide funds. But of course Grayson is the one who has to motivate his team and send out the best squad. But Grayson has done that successfully to the tune of promotion from L1 followed by 7th in the Championship. You want improvement on that, then we have to be able to retain players and have the funds for new ones. Otherwise, you better get used to McSheffrey's and Paynter's because they're the best of the loan and free market we're capable of producing the wages for. Will23 Agree that too much is made of bates impact when in fat it is Sg who is putting out an unprepared team in what was a shameful eric Its all right saying dont blame grayson but look at other teams in the devision and their defenders. The good ones do you think they came from the premiership? Are there no decent defenders in league one, scotland or Ireland for example and if there are do you think they would be looking at crazy money? Simon knew or should have known that the defence and defence mid needed sorting, if he knew at the start of the window that we would not be paying high wages then why look to the premier league for players. I recently seen Reading manager Brian mcdermott at a league of Ireland match. Players like kevin doyle and shane long and john o'shea, roy keane etc can be found for example if you have a decent manager and decent scouts and when these type of player first come to england they are on peanuts. What do we do though get journeymen in on trial or go for players who are on premier league wages. Now Grayson is coming out saying the southampton defeat was a shock? Really? You didn't know that we have an awful defence? Because if thats the case and Grayson can no longer see the weaknesses in the team and brings in players of the calibre of O'dea then im sorry but its time for Grayson to go. TSS He has found decent players – Paddy Kisnorbo, Davide Somma, Ramon Nunez and Max Gradel for example. But they don't grow on trees. There's 92 other teams with scouts out looking for these little gems, and even when you identify one, the chances are there'll be other teams on the case. This starts a bidding war which Leeds United invariably lose. We shouldn't have to be unearthing players from exotic locations. If we have £7m to spend on a stand we should be able to compete for Scott Sinclair's signature. We should have Sammy Clingan, Keith Andrews and Nick Monthomery already signed up – players who are experienced pros at this level and get teams promoted. We're Leeds United for christ sake, we should be able to get whoever the hell we want. But we can't, because Bates is a tight-fisted old git blocking every move. eric Bidding war none of the players i mentioned were subject of a bidding war. Sunderland just signed james mcClean from Derry city, was there a bidding war the rest of us don't know about( the wages he was on at derry city were about 500quid a week if your wondering). Bates is tight thats true but Grayson knows this. And half the players you mention he hasn't found they came on trial mate, and would have been of for a trial at the next club if we hadn't signed them. If you think Ireland, Scotland and league 1/2 are exotic locations then fair enough. TSS So you want us to just sign people rather than try them out first? Having them on trial is one of the most sensible things you can do. eric What you on about were did I say that, I was simply pointing out that larry didn't spot all the players you mentioned some of them came to use. You are right if you can get a look at a player first before signing them then its more sensible maybe that is something larry should have done with bruce bromby bessone o dea collins etc TSS Sorry, misread what you meant. But trial players are still scouted by the club and invited in 90% of the time. Bubionwhite Why is O'Dea getting stick from alleged Leeds supporters already … signed as a central defender through the week, trained with his team mates on Friday for the first time and was then played out of position … what do all the knockers expect? Probably looking for another Freddie Bessone this season to make as a another scapegoat … support the guy and make him feel welcome! lufcnutt too slow @superjhoops Nearly as dangerous as Bates are the fans who listen to his garbage, swallow it, and regurgitate it, talking of "good business", "sensible wages" etc. Unless you're a shareholder, the profits the club makes don't benefit you at all as long as the club is failing. Bottom line – Bates treats the club and fans appallingly, takes your money and spends it on a totally useless hotel and to fill his pockets. Everyone needs to realise this. Peter On the nail Eric, Grayson has done his bit now we need to replace him with better quality…how i don't know. I guess it's the same for Grayson wanting better quality players…if they are not available in England's Premier League or Beeston's pub teams for minimum wages…then there is a big world out there..Eastern Europe for one, Europe in general, America, South/central America, Australia, Africa ( 10 kilo's of rice a week would be a fortune for some of them) on and on. Who is in charge of spotting recruits because you are not going to find any from the premier league at this late stage other than loans DING DING DING LOANS DON'T WORK. Luke Whitaker Ken Bates wouldn't invest 7mil into some infrastructure that he didn't either fully or partly own to benefit somebody else. Ken Bates owns Elland Road, and probably Thorpe Arch too the way that went down, I reckon there's been some deals done on these behind the scenes.. Oh shit im banned now.. eric Listen mate let me make it very clear I think bates is a CANCER that is slowly starting to eat away at our club. Its obivious Bates couldn't care less about the club and is only interested in himself and building BATES MOTEL and murdering our dreams in the process but I also believe that a good manager should be able to adapt and Grayson isn't showing me that he can do that this season. Im disgusted that we have not gone out and spent money this transfer window but thats because I was expecting us to get in the players to strengthen the squad. Grayson would have know at the start of the window what his budget was and what wages we were paying and adapted accordingly. And if bring in O'dea at the last minute is him doing that then im sorry but he needs to walk along with bates. TSS Grayson has proved his worth over the last two seasons. I honestly don't believe you can improve on what we've got without spending cash. We need quality, experienced players and they come at a cost. Not hidden gems we have to develop and who will inevitably leave when they start to produce the goods a la Beckford and Johnson. mattbb1 Noted post abt players in the Eircom & Scot, to be honest, youre as likely to find a gem in belgian, danish, leagues etc… point really is how competitive are we? player from Derry was earning £500 quid a week, and Sunderland most likely didnt put him on any more than we might do. He knows at a club like Sunderland he'll be more likely to get a re-neg'd contract based on first team apps, he might play Euro League next season, and that he gets to play alongside internationals.I cant imagine the likes of Leeds, didnt make an offer – but as long as we dont offer competitive ££, & find ourselves on an upwards trajectory we will continue to miss out. If I was a footballer, I'd probably love to play at a club like Leeds, but upon turning up, being asked to take a wage cut, and having to deal with the irascible Bates' unique take that I am some sort of parasite then i would probably go and play for a different team, which is waht majority of players seem to be doing. Bates has a model of spending no more than £0.5m per year for a player IMO, incl a tansfer fee in Year 1, you might get the odd gem, but youre in the bracket of a lot of guff too. Rich Dont get me wrong, Grayson is no tactical genius but I doubt there will be many better options around should we get rid. Relying on frees/loans wouldnt even be that bad if we actually went and got the best players we could on frees & loans. Instead we are left with league 1 standard leftovers and thats back where we will end up if we are not careful. eric Thats fine and fair enough, I believe the secret to getting to the premier league is not spending vast amounts of money(although it helps) but is in fact having a very decent manager. Look at what paul lambert and brendan rogers have done for example. Some managers have a blind spot on certain area's of the team management and its looking like grayson struggles to put in place a decent defence with or without money. The final straw for me was O'dea I have seen the lad play many times and he is useless, he was a great prospect about 5 years ago and never broke into the team(celtic)(for various reasons) and grayson brings him in on loan and sticks him straight into the first team a laughable decision imo. And by the way these hidden gems you refer to are transfers that happen all the time every week there not hidden they just dont get the attention until the player proves his worth. TSS Paul Lambert might not have been able to spend much money, but he also never lost players like we do. Norwich have never had a problem with wages to my knowledge. You know it's bad when Neil Kilkenny can get a better deal at Bristol than he could at Leeds. I was quite optimistic about this season because I felt the key was keeping the team together and the best players remained. But losing our two central midfielders has obviously cost us, especially with Somma and Becchio out and no one to hoof the ball to. sim Great article and to a letter spot on! No point in getting rid of Grayson, as you say Grayson is not the route of the problem. Bates is the problem! If you are all going to be protesting on Saturday thats fine but once the protests are over, we get behind the team and the manager big style and we let them know that our frustations are only directed towards the owner!! eric Neil kilkenny I would say left for first team football not that it matters. The point I am trying to make is simply that instead of the manager coming out and saying we need to improve the defence, he says he is shocked. Shocked? really? I wasn't. Bates has said that grayson has the kasper money to spend if I was grayson I would use it to buy a decent defender and a decent def midfielder(release micheal brown he's a liability). If its the case that grayson doesn't have any money then he should have some integrity and come out and say bates is lying because he is not doing the club any good keeping quiet. At the end of the day a few bad results and his head will be on the choppin block either way, bates wont hang around. Im going to leave it there, my final sentiments are this – the chairman is a tight parasite and im starting to lose faith in the manager aswell. Cumbrianwhite I agree with the article whole article , SG's hands are tied and the players that we have i don't think even fergiscum could improve. You can't polish a turd !!!!! . Our transfer policy is a complete joke and in the end up Papa Smurf will sack SG because he is destined to fail . He is a tight fisted old sod who does not give a crap about the future of our beloved club. We are doomed to be relegated unless there are some major changes in our playing squad . GUTTED Mersey Whites One game , and the mass reaction is pretty dam stupid. EVERYONE needs to relax . This is a time for cool heads , support whatever team Simon plays , do not and I repeat DO NOT start mindless chanting towards Bates and Grayson, that will only disrupt the players during the game. The squad has hardly improved since May , we all know that but at least wait until the end of the transfer window, before people think about mass protest. Its Aug boys settle down lets see where the next few games takes us., there will be plenty of time to voice your anger, But this Saturday is not the time. If Necessary the fans can unite in a organized and meaning full manner. Its a waiting game and to make a impact cool heads must prevail oldlufc I agree that mass demos, particularly during games is not the answer. However, something has to be done to get rid of Bates. In 1989 Wilkos team suffered a 5-2 opening day defeat at Newcastle, but the difference between then and now is that we knew that Wilko had signed quality players who needed time to gell. That is not the case with the current squad. Freebies/loanees are not the answer. If players can't get motivated at the start of a new season, and it is the manager's job to motivate players, when can they. I really do fear for Leeds Utd under the Bates regime. As I say in an earlier post, why spend £7M on corporate facilities if the team is rubbish. As things stand, under Bates, Leeds Utd do not have a hope in hell of making it to the Premiership. When performances drop it is the corporates who are the first to drift away as we have seen since the relegations of recent times. EYLEEDS I reckon Larry does have money to spend but feels under pressure to be as frugal as possible by Bates. Bates has praised him in the past for not spending and Grayson probably has that in the back of his mind. It’s about time that he grew a pair and demanded some proper investment in the squad so he can take the club forward. He will probably just get sacked, but that will happen anyway if we are not competing for the play offs come Christmas. I’ve never known the fans so frustrated before. oldlufc I posted this response on http://www.clarkeonenil.co.uk yesterday but it equally applies to the lead article: The ‘failings’ on the pitch at LUFC have been clear for all to see for quite some time and any half decent opposition manager knows how to exploit them. How many times have we heard SG berate the team after a poor performance – I’ve lost count! This is SG’s team, he has signed the players, he has chosen the coaching staff, he is the ‘motivator’ – it is obvious that things are not right. SG’s only defence is that he is doing the job under severe restrictions. History shows us that you do not have to spend £Ms, just look at Swansea, but you do have to have a vision/plan, a scouting system that can recognise talent, it is out there, Beckford and Becchio are good examples. A gamble on a young hungry talent is far better than signing players like Brown. However, with SG’s bizarre team selections and transfer record to date, does he know what he wants his team to look like? would he spend wisely if he was allowed to? If Brown is the answer in the midfield area, and Paynter up front, someone is asking the wrong questions. Both have been signed because they are ‘cheap’ not because they add ‘quality’! The Championship is far stronger this season with the likes of West Ham, Leicester, Southampton, Ipswich, Cardiff all looking stronger than Leeds. Following our ‘owners’ investment policy, ER (a stadium the club does not own!) will be the best stadium/hotel/corporate facilities , in L1. Leeds United will not progress, whoever is the manager, as long as Bates and his cronies are in charge. No other investors will do business with them because you just cannot believe a word they say about anything. mattbb1 fair points mersey white, but these arent new rumblings, these have been going on for long enough, and perosnally i have to say i was gutted that we didnt go the extra mile in january last year, which we could have done perhaps by signing a decent centre half to compliment lichaj, and a proper holding mid, but that costs money. totally agree that fans get behind the team, because if i was a leeds player I'd be P*ssed off too by the squad around me not improving, and would by now have one eye elsewhere.. the last thing you then need is the crowd on your back. I think Grayson might have inadvertently found a killa replacement with Clayton. He now of course needs a Johnson replacement… that isnt Brown by the looks of it – what about Nunez, a tidy passer of the ball, and too fast to get easily tackled – possibly not panic stations just yet – but the point is we shouldnt have to be doing this. derbyshirewhite A lot of other clubs are spending crazy money this year because under the league/FIFA rules agreed for next year onwards they will have to live within their football earnings. Leicester, Forest and Ipswich will see a big reduction in their spending power if they don't make it to the PL this year and will be carrying debts difficult to manage. So that's not the model to follow, and shouldn't blind us to the fact that our coaching team haven't yet built a team that's difficult to beat, or score against. @craigwhitaker1 people should take into account we've finished 2nd and 7th the last 2 seasons, respectively, when put into perspective, given we're 're-building' and 'on the up' is very respectable. leeds fans are, in my opinion, being slighly naive when asking bates to shell out big wages, given where our risk taking got us in the past. surely people haven't forgotten this? it's a balancing act, and unfortunately that's not easy in this division, given the competitiveness of it and the fact 10 or so teams expect to get promotion or be up there. you'd think the club would have spent some of the summer reflecting on the year before, and isolating the problem areas to improve on. one of them, in my opinion, was fitness. this seems to have been dealt with given what i've downloaded from LUTV. the bottom line is unless we spend a little and get the defence sured up, we could very well become blended into the background of the championship. patience is key though. look at the bigger picture. craig @craigwhitaker1 i'd also be furious if the £7m figure was correct regarding the refurbishment of the east stand, that figure is outrageous. pabs1983 1. I was there saturday, and whilst we protested against Bates, Grayson had the support of the fans to the end. The team see we're behind them and supporting them already. No issues with them thinking where on there backs 2. Ken Bates wont pay attention to the protests. The only way to hit the guy is to boycott games. Take money away from the club. Unfortunately, we're too passionate to follow through with boycotting games and Bates knows that. He sees us as a cash cow and will continue milking it while he can get away with it. TSS Agree, but my hopes are that the protest is picked up by the wider media and alerts potential suitors to the availability of our club. Long shot, but you never know. Plus the protest allows us all to vent. mattbb1 i tend to agree, but surely Leeds are already firmly on the radar, probably ever since we beat Man U in the FA Cup, I see Leeds mentioned in press all around the world, and it would seem a no-brainer to invest, i'm hopeful that now Bates has clarified ownership through his own erm… purchase, that this is a sign hes ready to sell. Perhaps thats the reason why he has stopped spending money on the squad? TSS Probably not, but fingers crossed! mattbb1 We all know that Outro is a piece of music to signify an exit, thats the name of his business isnt it? oh well – I'll continue clutching at straws, please just sell up Ken….. Here's one for the angry mob… Bates or Ridsdale? I'd love to see a vote on that! number1inyorkshire we have a director of football LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,now is it he who we need rid of first ,or at least at the same time as bates .look we all know that managers never sack chairman the same can't be said the other way round history is full off sackings of mangers by chairman . protest will only get the manager sacked ,now that said i truly believe that Simon has gone as far as he can with leeds he looked totally shocked by his team on Saturday night he will know as much as he sticks up for em they are not as good as he says or if they were we wouldn't need to add any more faces . sadly he can put up or ship out . bates will not be bothered either about the protests he is a knob ,we should not boycott games but only buy tickets for the game ,go to the pub .macky D's etc no money to bates . it is time to mobilize the masses the Arab spring can come to leeds lets bring down another evil dictator (sorry but you know what i mean ). something is dreadfully wrong at our club ,and when i spoke to his wife she said "ken knows its your club and he is doing it for you the fans "he knows the club will still be here long after he has gone " hopefully soon , we do have aright to answers CMON …… Mark__R Yep I think Eric, Oldlufc & Derbyshire White. Whichever way you cut it – SG and staff have had all summer to address our weak defensive play – and I thought getting rid of Kasper was part of the solution ? Ensuring the team stepped out prepared, organised and motivated to secure any result at So'ton was the least to be expected from professionals. There was no energy and no closing down of the opposition .The corners & freekicks were very poor.Our Defence lumping the ball forward to the smallest front line in the Western World made no sense .Keeping the team shape when defending also appeared beyond us. These areas are sorted on the training field, drilled over and again until they are 2nd nature.Tactics, strategy, game plan , each player knowing what their supposed to do in order to secure the result.We had experienced players out there who played as if they had no game plan at all. As a team we appeared woefully unprepared, something we need the coaching staff to answer. SG after the match said something like the players didn't do what was asked of them .The question probabley is why weren't they listening ? MOT Moscow555 So we need to buy back Elland Road… So we decide to add to the building itself thus making it worth more spending our own money doing it… Then we buy it back for much much more as now it has some extra Lego sh!te stuck on the side… It makes no sense!!! Unless Papa Smurf owns it already like he did the club… He's such a dodgy b#@stard! @banditsteve123 First thing will all the people who are saying they cant wait for bates to die are sick there is no place for that,now i have allways tried to defend ken bates in the past 4 years we are a stronger club but this season should have seen us build on last season with 5 quality players at least,i think lonergan will be ok same as clayton if we could have got another 2 midfieled 2 defenders and a striker i think we would have been ok.The only reason i can see why we did not get them maybe the banks wont lend leeds the money to buy players only to invest in stadium Will23 On SG – an average middle of the road manager. Anyone would have got the team out of league one. it was no great achievement given the quality SG had. we were promoted inspire of SG weaknesses. On Bates 1 – we all need to see the accounts before jumping to conclusions about how much was spent on the ES & how financed. On Bates 2 – there was a very good article on not 606 site – see news now for link. Sums up everything wrong about SG & Bates. danish_bacon Hi cumbrianwhite. Apparently, you can polish a turd. I have seen it on mythbusters. TimCampbell43 I think this article perfectly sums up the feelings of utter frustration that the majority of leeds united supporters are experiencing this weekend. I have never been a big fan of larrys decisions, but I'm gonna cut him some slack here and believe that behind the scenes he is as equally frustrated as the rest of us. I have no doubts that if he did'nt toe the chairmans line he would be out on his ear. It is the club he has supported and loves more than any other, and yet he is a mere puppet in the grand scheme of things. The twat with the silver beard, papa smurf, evil santa, whatever the hell you want to call him has strangled the life out of our club and as such HIS TIME HAS COME!!!!! As you touched on over the weekend TSS when we are looking at a trialist who have been RELEASED by a German THIRD division club, THINGS HAVE REACHED ROCK BOTTOM!!! BATES OUT BATES OUT BATES OUT!!! Irving08 Cloughie reckoned that a manager's job essentially came down to two things: (a) being able to spot a good player, (b) motivating players to perform week in week out. In my view, Simon G. has shown that he is incapable of doing either of these things. Sure he is operating under financial constraints – but if you were Bates would you give Simon money to spend ? Basically Simon has done all he can for us and should now be replaced. There is no shame in this – the mentality of modern footballers alone requires frequent managerial changes (unless your name is Fergie). TimCampbell43 As long as bates goes first mate lol mojoluafc The fans are starting to get frustrated but unfortunately i believe Ken wont give a shit. John Evans It seems supporters are split on who’s responsible for this mess KB or SG. Well for what it’s worth they both are. The facts are Bates owns Leeds United Grayson must have known what this guy was like when he left Blackpool he must have discussed what money was available before he took the job as Peterv says responsibility for turning the team out is Graysons he and he alone works with Bates on bringing players to the club they are both responsible for wages and transfer fees. Grayson needs to start pulling this side together before it’s to late it’s his job on the line not KB j123leeds Transfer market: He is signing players with his hands tied behind his back – he does not have the funds available from KB or a wage structure that even competes with the likes of Bristol City. We may be Leeds United but SG has got us a promotion and a 7th place Championship finish on a SHOESTRING budget. Tactics: Were all the jokers who are saying he has no idea about tactics saying the same thing when he sent out a team to Old Trafford and we won – YEAH THOUGHT NOT! Or when we drew at Spurs and Arsenal?? Or when we did the double over last years league champions?? j123leeds Anyone saying Grayson should go are completely fickle and if Leeds go and smash Bradford and Boro you will no doubt be saying how amazing he is We have played 1 league game – if we had lost 7 of the last 8 I could maybe get where these people are coming from but right now it's just a totally fickle overreaction. Maybe he got his tactics wrong Saturday – EVERY MANAGER DOES AT TIMES!!! Give the team and manager a chance before crucifying them! It stops with Bates for me! Jack Adams I read the report on the clubs finances from a couple of seasons ago, it read 9million on staff wages (players and all staff), 3 million in rent for er and ta, turnover 29million, profits 200k. wait a min, theres nearly 17million pounds unaccounted, now I know electric isn't cheap, but 17millions? It's quite clear that bates is pulling out millions of pounds a year into offshore companies in "fees" and not putting a penny back. Grumpy Mmmm….. 17 million? isn't that the same figure Astor agreed to write off at the time of administration – BUT ONLY IF BATES GOT THE CLUB BACK. Now let me think…. Dave I love Leeds united to bits, I love how our fans still turn up in their thousands even when the club isn’t doing too well, but what I don’t like is the thicko Leeds fans who would defend Ken bates if he came into their house and stole their grandmother. Yes ok he saved the club a few years ago, but anyone can see his priorities are totally wrong and I fear if it doesn’t change very very soon it’s back to league 1 for us. Yes I think this squad is that bad. Dont blame Grayson, yes he may make the wrong tactical decision now and again but that’s not the main problem, the problem is the squad needs investment. Instead we spent all summer scratting about for a goalkeeper when we already had a perfectly adequate one. Time to get bates out, we have gone has far as we can with freebies and players we have begged stealed and borrowed from other clubs.