Face-Off: Ken Bates v Peter Ridsdale TSS August 14, 2011 Leeds United 63 Comments A fiery debate on Twitter last night has resulted in a new feature for The Scratching Shed – LUFC fans face-off. The idea is that two fans with opposing views on something at the club present their argument, and we finish with a public vote to see what the masses think. We start with Ken Bates v Peter Ridsdale – who was the worst chairman? Arguing that Ken Bates is the worst will be myself whilst Andrew Nattan – Leeds United season ticket holder and writer of the Unmemorable Title copywriting blog – will be arguing the case for Ridsdale. ‘At least we had hope’ by TSS If Bates’ crime is that he couldn’t care less about the fans, Ridsdale’s was that he perhaps cared too much. The truth is, you probably need a happy median. The problem was that Ridsdale is a Leeds United fan. For me, that makes empathising pretty easy. The question you have to ask yourself before you blast Ridsdale as an incompetent fool and blame him for the total destruction of our club is; would you have done anything differently? I’ve asked myself that very same question hundreds of times over the years, and the truth is, I’m no closer to an answer now than I was the first time I started hypothetically pondering my Leeds United. I’m sure we’d all like to think that we’d have vetoed some of the transfers, Seth Johnson being a prime example. The fact is however, that I don’t recall too many people complaining at the time. In fact, it was quite the opposite; Johnson was a player with a big reputation expected to achieve great things. An inspired signing from O’Leary we reasoned, boasting to our rivals that it was another sign of our club’s huge ambition and unstoppable ascent. And as for O’Leary – he was the best thing since Don Revie and deserved the full financial backing of the club. My reasoning for Bates being the worst chairman is not because of the contempt with which he treats fans, not because of his deluded priorities, not because of the court battles, the administrations, the -25 points or even his threats to liquidate the club if he didn’t regain ownership. My argument for Bates being the worst chairman ever is the very fact we’re having this debate. Football fans are supposed to argue over who should be playing up front, or which positions need strengthening. Whether our new midfield warrior is what England needs to conquer the world, or which pub to go to before the game. Under Bates, those things are an afterthought. We’re all so terrified of another delve into the dark recesses of League One, or the consequences when the tangled web of deceit Bates’ regime has come to represent comes undone that a huge cloud hangs over our love affair with this great club. At no point throughout the six and a half long years of Bates’ reign have Leeds United ever brought me a moment of pure peace. A moment where there wasn’t a nagging voice in the back of my head telling me that this temporary high will be shattered by a far bigger low. That wasn’t the case with Ridsdale, he gave us excitement and belief. However temporary it may have been, times were good. Bates meanwhile can’t even offer us the most basic need of football fans anymore – hope. My argument basically comes down to enjoyment. I simply can’t fully enjoy the football under Ken Bates’ regime because the off-field activities weigh heavy on my mind. His interviews, excuses and propaganda are extreme psychological torment to me, whilst my suspicions that his takeover of the club will come back to haunt us just won’t go away. At least with Ridsdale we had hope. ‘It’s the hope that kills you’ by Andrew Nattan Let’s face it. When it comes to supporting Leeds United, we’re all used to disappointment. Our best ever decade saw us amass more bridesmaid’s dresses than trophies. We’ve lost more cup finals than most sides play in. When there’s a light at the end of our tunnel, it’s usually a train. Rushing towards us. On fire. So while we’re all used to spectacular failure, we can’t still quite handle hope. And hope’s something that Peter Risdale gave us in spades. Being top of the Premiership at Christmas. Being 90 minutes away from a European Cup final. The Leeds fan’s psyche can’t deal with these things. We start to get carried away. When Ridsdale let O’Leary run wild with the chequebook, we all started to believe that we’d have all the medals and trophies that we should’ve picked up under Revie and Wilko. But we didn’t. And every near miss was like a dagger in the back. We believed that we could win trophies. That flame of hope burned brightly and when we fell at the final hurdle (or the first), we were genuinely gutted. We were distraught at being forced to compete in the UEFA Cup, as it was beneath a club of our stature. And when the money ran out and the long decline started, the comedown from years of hope nearly killed us. That’s something we don’t have to deal with under cuddly Ken. Ridsdale gave us an ex-England manager of inexplicably good reputation. Bates gave us a boss-eyed dwarf. Pete gave us the Toxteth Terror and under Ken we’re stuck with Barn Door Billy. He’s taken the hope that was killing us and replaced it with downtrodden pragmatism. But by robbing us of all hope Bates has given us the freedom to enjoy any minute modicum of relative success. When we lived Ridsdale’s dreams, we shrugged at a 5-0 hammering of Hapoel Tel Aviv as if winning away in Europe was the minimum we could expect. But here in the midst of Bates’ nightmare, we have the freedom to celebrate a home win against Bristol Rovers with cheers, tears and a pitch invasion. Scrappy wins against provincial nobodies are more numerous than European adventurers, so in a strange way, Bates gives us more scope for enjoyment than Risdale ever could. But if you can’t accept that Ken Bates forcing our sights downwards allows us to enjoy wins that should’ve been embarassingly trivial, you should look at the legacies of these two men. Ken’s going to leave us with 50-odd corby trouser presses, a museum and the finest conferencing facilities in a thirty-eight mile radius. Ridsdale? He left us with Ken Bates. And no number of lost semi-finals can make up for that. Sorry, there are no polls available at the moment. henry_v Peter Ridsdale and his board of Directors, ruined our club and who knowns if we will EVER recover!? We have Ken BECAUSE of Mr Ridsdale and his directors. Ken was and still is the only option we have. Why we have not been taken over is a mystery, but one day…..Ah well! Ken as majority shareholder, makes all the decisions now. We are a safe, unambitious, going nowhere club just now, but that is ALL BECAUSE of Mr Ridsdale and Co. The way feelings are at this time Ken will probably lose this vote, but that would be a wrong conclusion. TSS Why blame Ridsdale and not Krasner? If we're going to blame Ridsdale for Bates, why not blame Cussins for Ridsdale? How long does that excuse hold water? Ken Bates went through administration twice. The first should have settled our debt, the fact he needed another and took us to League One shows a similar level of financial incompetence. Let's not forget the level of debt Chelski were in when he left too! The fact remains, Leeds have huge resources at their disposal. Ridsdale used them (and more) to try and conquer Europe. Bates used them to make absolutely no progress whatsoever in six and a half years – we're exactly where he started. Sorry, but blaming Ridsdale for Bates is no longer a valid excuse – the administrations saw to that. Mark I think the only reason we went in to administration a second time with bates is because he wasn't the fully in charge of the club, he only owned 49% and they wouldn't let him buy another 2% he wanted, hence he stopped putting money in the club and let it fall. I think bate's needs an investor, if we get someone else in that counter balances bates idea of building shopping centres instead of a team then we could be in for a winner! but until then, I would rather build slowly than rushing and ending up falling over again. I also think SG has a plan, and maybe the club have looked at the league this year and how strong it is, realised we probably over achieved last year and realised splashing the cash is not the wisest of ideas. You only have to look at Leicester this year and Middlesbrough last to see that spending doesn't always work, if we get one or two right players in this year, let them gel, two more next we will be ready, and then maybe not have to spend as much on going up as we currently would! oldschoolbaby Life, just like football, has a tendency to drop a pile of shit into your lap. Sometimes you can swat it onto the floor and hope the tatty carpet conceals the stain but, at other times you can get your femurs broken. And a jagged femur edge can puncture your femoral artery leaving you to bleed out. Ridsdale was the latter pile of shit. History will judge Bates. However, Leeds are still in post Ridsdale rehab. I see no real reason why Bates should have such a lasting negative legacy many years after his demise. It`s actually important people grasp this point as Brown has done to the country what Ridsdale did to Leeds Irving08 Spot on. Lewis i have to disagree, though the analogy is still relevant – cameron & co use Brown as an excuse while they slowly massacre public services with a smile on their faces. It's realpolitik – create an imagined binary (good vs bad, spend vs cut, survival vs extinction) and then use it to justify ignoring anything in between. Then, when things don't improve, keep blaming the legacy of others, and make sure nobody else has a loud enough voice to argue. Bates constantly creates his own statistics and hides as much information as possible to create an illusion of austerity, which he then uses to justify his lack of investment in players.There's no denying Ridsdale was an idiot and deserves a healthy share of blame, but at least he cared – success for the club on the pitch always the ultimate goal. With Bates, the fans are at best irrelevant, at worst a hinderance (electric fence around the pitch anyone?). He wasn't the only option, he didn't save us from liquidation and his investment in players is minimal, but if he says otherwise often enough in his programme notes or on Bates Radio, people begin to take it as fact. oldschoolbaby I don`t think I`m imagining things, binary or not. Ridsdale left Leeds unsustainable debt, Brown left the country the same problem. The problem with debt is that no one likes the solution. Eating beans and Lidl bread on a personal level. A lack of investment on a business level and cuts to public services on a national level. I don`t support Cameron but whether he enjoys it is totally irrelevant. If he doesn`t cut the IMF will tell him to. If he ignores them our creditors will start to call the shots. The UK doesn`t have the administration option. I don`t like it, I work in the public sector but I have to suck it up Getting political isn`t helpful. We have forgotten that Bates wasn`t the only vulture to pick over Leeds post Ridsdale, a lot of football clubs compounded our humiliation by picking up players for next to nothing. At least Bates has restored some self respect in that we can now tell those sniffing around Snoddy and Gradel to piss off TSS Brilliant post Lewis, totally agree – both on the political and football argument. List of players and contracts here: http://www.thescratchingshed.com/squad/ Tim Campbell It really says a lot about old greybeard that ridsdale is seen as a saint. I think the thing with ridsdales regime was purely down to letting his heart rule his head; that could never be the case with bates cause he has no heart Cumbrian White I agree totally with TSS – at least we had hope when Ridsdale was in charge because under Batesy we have none. Ridsdale backed. His manager to the hilt and ultimately gambled , it’s just that the manager he took a chance with just was not good enough (simple as) . Under Bates you are always thinking about what’s going to happen next , points deduction or administration . Everyone of us can see that the playing squad needs some quality additions and what does uncle Kenneth do , absolutely nothing , another summer and pre season wasted . I was dreading the season starting because I was really fearing having zero points after 6 or 7 games where as under Ridsdale I couldn’t wait for august to come round again. Companies wanted to be part of the Ridsdale revolution and we were going places but no one seems to want to do business with Mr Bates probably because he is always involved in a court case somewhere or slagging people off in the match day programme. At this moment I really don’t think we will improve until Ken Bates moves on and I don’t think will happen any time soon . Tim Campbell Bates response in yesterdays programme of where has all the money gone? 'You should see our wage bill' – Earlier in the week he said that our wage structure was one of the most competitive in the league – ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS!! Its our wage limit that has denied us so many players of late. I would really love to know how much of our hard earned cash that you have creamed off for your own selfish uses kenneth old boy!! Reuben How can anyone ever choose Risdale upon any other living thing? He is the main culprit we are in this situation. And no its not for the love of the club cause if you remember correctly when he was Chairman at Cardiff he voted against removing our 15point penalty. Would any Leeds fan do that? How fast people forget. Any blundering idiot could have done what Risdale did – he spent money we didnt have, he paid people twice the wages they were worth. then we couldnt move them anywhere without paying half their wages. What have we got to show for this – nothing, cause under his regime the FA and League Cups were snubbed, so we didnt even get the pleasure of maybe getting a piece of silverware. Why dont the people who voted for Risdale here do the same with their wages and savings and take loans – go spend it all in Vegas – bet you could have the time of your lives but what happens when the money runs out. COL Give me Ridsdale over Bates any day. I'm not defending Ridsdale but I just think Leeds United's troubles were due to financially incompetence. Bates on the other hand is a crooked bastard! batesbane I am sick of this "bates is the the only option we have". Ken rigged the admin so that he, or his pals were the only people who could buy the club out of admin. His approach to business is so untrustworthy that no one will invest> he has, de facto, made himself the only option. 92champions Ridsdale never cared a jot about the fans! It was all about his ego and lust for power/glamour, with private jets and the absurd signings of Fowler and Johnson. O'Leary is at least as much to blame, but that's another debate henry_v I get the feeling some of you don't like Ken Bates? To suggest that Ridsdale's regime was anything but a complete disaster for our club, is letting your animosity for Ken cloud your judgement. TSS – Krasner and the other Directors and administrators, managed to compound the catastrophe but Ken stepped in and (through fair means or foul) steadied the ship. Put your bias to one side, and be honest! We have a club (one of the VERY FEW) that is debt free. It IS time to invest but that is not the discussion here!! oldschoolbaby Thankfully, at last, we seem to be kicking the "Ridsdale gave us hope" argument in the head. As Reuben says anyone can buy their dream home with a110% mortgage, get a new BMW on financeand fuck off to Vegas on their credit card. It will, temporarily, give you a nice tingly feeling not unlike hope. But there comes a day of reckoning. Ridsdale dug us into a big hole. Whatever you say about Bates ( and instinctively I don`t like him ) he`s definitely skipped the shovel. And please don`t forget Henry`s argument that Ridsdale gave us Bates. He left us for dead on an African savannah and you DO NOT get to choose which vulture picks at your carcass mattbb1 The facts are that Ridsdale is a better chairman than Bates, and a better businessman. No I'm not drunk, but think about this. Chelsea had a club debt of £110M when Abramovich bought them, they were under threat of adminsitration, and the taxman had a fixation with them. Ken had blown the clubs cash on a ridiculous hotel, which to my knowledge is not a massive financial success to this day. Leeds had a debt of £80M at tthe same point, the only difference? Trevor Birch went to Chelsea first and found them an investor. Ken has singularly failed to find us a decent investor (it was Matthew Harding who backed him at Chelsea) Wasnt able to go to the markets as Ridsdale did and perusade UBS Warburg to put £60M into the club. Further he has had us in administration, demonised us as a club, and given us 3 seasons of league one football, because he cant squeez money out of a £22M turnover business. Reuben what good business man pays twice the wages other clubs would. I think Bates is a good businessman cause he invested nothing in the club and made a profit. Not that im liking the situation, but a good businessman is one where profit occurs not goes bust. Tim Campbell Our club has been burnt badly in the past and consequently the feeling is it must never happen again. Whilst this fact is true a healthy balance must be preserved, and investment like it or not is a very big part of that. It is because we are Leeds United that our expectancy levels are so high and in my view rightly so. For a city the size of Leeds to have one club to focus their attention on, as well as having massive support worldwide; success on and off the football field should be a natural progression. Frustration is rife at our club at the minute, we need a saviour, bates is not nor ever has been that saviour OxfordLeeds Clayton – TSS please tell me how long Clayton has left on his contract, I assume two years as probably signed on a three? If so please LUFC sign him up long term NOW, he is the man to build a team around. Of course we could wait until the end of the season when his stock peaks, interest in him is high & he only has a year left, no that would be daft, no great Chairman would allow that to happen to a key player, again & again & again & again… TSS One year mate, like most of our midfield. Ian Slater easy there was amost no Leeds UTD because of Ridsdale end of! Ron Galea I think they are both retards. Let's keep working and shouting to get a new one. All we want is yearly investment in the squad and competitive ticket prices – we'll do the rest. Julian Grant Spot on…..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! henry_v I know this. After the Ridsdale regime I felt a LOT worse than I do now. Other clubs came for our players and paid nothing for them. We were shown to be a stupid, poorly run club. Even Ridsdale tried to say we, the fans, wanted to live the dream and were partly to blame!! We did not know what was going on, although some of our purchases and the wages paid will tell you how good a business man Ridsdale was. They NEVER consulted us!!!! Don't forget he has repeated the trick at other clubs since. We were lied to far more then than now!! oldschoolbaby Any chance of us agreeing on just a few points 1. Ridsdale was the primary problem, all other problems are secondary 2. The Bates problem will resolve itself. He`s 80. Alzheimers, angina and arthritis will ride to our rescue 3. We are treading water ( and that`s not good enough for Leeds United ) but with MOST clubs drowning in debt history may view the Bates period as a decent foundation to build upon 4 Leeds fans fighting amongst themselves over these issues isn`t helpful RichB It looks to me like Bates has rigged Leeds up to go bust again. All the assets are held by other companies who can keep forcing Leeds to pay stupid money for rent etc (even if he went). Think Crystal Palace had major problems with their ground in a similar situation. He wont put any money in. He will walk away with a fortune either way and leave us in a worse situation than when he got here. Bleak. Mighty white I think wat a lot of people forget is that ridsdale wasn’t the owner of the club he was just the face of a whole board of directors who made the decisions…. All the signings made had to go through them it wasn’t just upto ridsdale. In a way I feel sorry for him he was a boyhood Leeds fan who like us all got caught on the crest of a wave I’m pretty sure if he had another chance things would of turned around and let’s not forget he was on the verge of bringing in Martin o Neil until the board of directors got rid of him. The comments regarding bates as he saved our club and nobody wants to invest money even now…. Let me tell you why… Because everyone in the business world knows how much of a moron bates is and that’s the reason they want nothing to do with lufc!! Get the scum bag out of our club…. I’d have ridsdale anyway of the week!! oldschoolbaby Anti Ridsdale sentiment is not, by default, pro Bates. We are debating the lesser of 2 evils. Good point but Ridsdale led the board and that`s where the buck stops. He may have loved Leeds but he loved the camera even more Paul1019 For me the man who has caused the most harm to this club is Peter Ridsdale by a country mile. Not for the overspending , the fish or the singing with the fans. Nor the hope he gave us, those are not his crimes. It is Ridsdale that started the process that led us to Ken Bates, the cancer that is Bates. Ridsdale should have been more careful with our great club . I strongly believe that Bates will destroy this club , I despise his dishonesty , his arrogance, his secrecy and the contempt he shows to the supporters. and just about everybody else he cares to comment on. If I was an outside observer I would think that Bates has come to this club with the express intention to kill it off whilst taking as much money off the thick numpty gullible Leeds fans as possible. So Ridsdale gets the lions share of the blams for me , bringing this club to this low point in its history… 99% at fault….aided a little by the weak Leeds fans who put up with Bates. henry_v I don't believe for one second that Ken Bates wants to destroy our club. There is no evidence of this. He wants to be a success here, without spending too much money. Give him some credit! He has a budget and is sticking to it. Before the transfer window ends your view of the squad, and our chances of promotion, may well change. Let's not drift into what we think he MIGHT do!! banditsteve123 I blame the champions league and liverpool if they had beaten us to the last champions league spot i dont think we would have the millions on players that we did and we would still be in the prem league.One last thing leicester looked woefull on sat Jonny Dent I think the simple facts of hindsight cloud the issue. As TSS said there wasn’t an murmur of complaint when we splashed the cash and held the hope of being a real force. Hindsight proves it was the wrong decision, although a lot of factors led to our demise and a lot of people. Firstly, it wasn’t Ridsales cash or his final decision what was spent; We were a plc and decisions were made by a board of directors, not one man!. Secondly we managed to fail on the pitch just at the wrong time in terms of itv dig collapsing and a perception that all football money was going to reduce dramatically. In the opposite area, we can see Bates cocking it all up by the use of foresight. How can anyone make sense of spending £7m on corporate boxes when he only anticipates selling half because of the league we are in????. The 365 days a year business is great idea in practice but without Prem league football it is a waste of time, yes we can happily plod on and a nice steady profit every year but as a fan is that what we want??? We want to see our team doing well, we don’t need to spend outside our income stream, where is the delph money, where is the Chelsea millions for tapping up the youth and man city’s few quid for that fact? Yes Ridsdale made mistakes and got well paid but I would take that any day over a crook who would happily see us go out of existence over his own personal gain. And to cap off the debate Bates is an utter gob shite who undermines his own manager, no wonder players won’t cone to us who would want Bates ad their boss????? number1inyorkshire the 20 odd thousand who turn up on Saturday at 3 o'clock are there for 1 thing football thats where we want the money spent now the banqueting etc should be split into separate businesses and be made to make a profit on their own . ultimately it will be the football that makes or breaks leeds united because with out that there will be nothing .if we were in the prem as i have said more than once those boxes will be sold and full ,we are not , the thing and the only thing that gives me hope is that bates knows this and he will have to sell them . we already have empty boxes ,the only way forward at a football club is the team to win promotion . the money is going somewhere could it be its been saved to buy the ground back as well as building and Thorpe arch . when all that is done he will have to buy players he is hoping by then there will be a wage cap if it is a cap based on rugby leagues gate revenues , then out of prem , based on that we will be one of the biggest payers on wages therefore attracting better players only thoughts Tim Campbell Question: Have we ever had a definitive answer from that pirate greybeard as to where the fabian delph money, compensation money for the young lads, money from tv revenue from cup runs and all other monies accrued through transfers and wages saved from players leaving has went? Apparantly there was a guy who the Germans used as a propaganda mouthpiece during the 2nd world war; his name was Lord Haw Haw. I seriously believe his spirit lives on in the guise of kenneth bates esquire. In other words folks don't believe a bloody word that comes out of his mouth henry_v "there wasn't an murmur of complaint when we splashed the cash and held the hope of being a real force." What does that mean??? Do you think that we were consulted?? Do you think we knew the club was in trouble?? The Directors are TOTALLY responsible for the good running of the club!! The fans have NO INPUT in the running of the club. Now or then!! Jonny Dent That’s my point, with hindsight we have seen the damage done by overspending, no one saw it at the time and you are right, as fans you don’t know. Under Bates we can actually see the harm being done, we can see the waste of money on unfilled boxes the missing delph/junior player millions. The point is the Ridsdale led era was spending money on players to try and get success, Bates is doing it all too blatantly to line his pockets, building a bloody shopping centre not a football team. Your choice on which you prefer!!!! @CommanderCody87 I can't believe this is actually being discussed, Bates Vs Risdale is completely incomparable. We're making ourselves look stupid by going after him like a witch hunt. Bates isn't Hitler, he's not the worst thing that's happened to the club by a very long way, he's not even the worst thing that's happened to the club in resent times. Just because he isn't investing in the squad doesn't make him the devil. He isn't doing a good job at the moment, and he needs to invest. That's as far as I would go to be honest. I don't like the guy, I'd prefer it if he wasn't here but we're making him sound like a Bond villain. It's not like others a queueing up to replace him is it? number1inyorkshire you can't put a cig paper between the pair of em or any one else of that era both for differing reasons only thing is we never said out when we were buying Rio ,and co for stupid amounts of money ,,. they are both the same for differing reasons spend thrift and penny pinching . so lets morph em together like some kind of Frankenstein monster but add to it Krasner and McKenzie then you will get a really f*&^ed up beast , and thats been the problem all of em the one who i hate most out of them all is krasner he panicked ,sold the ground ,training ground and the rest to bates what a twat ,had he had calm head we would have been in a better state now but of all the chairman the one at Sheff wed who told bates to F OFF when he tried to buy them is nthe biggest wa$+er of all . henry_v "we never said out when we were buying Rio ,and co for stupid amounts of money ,,. " What should we have said, and to whom? Rio was a great buy and we made a big profit when we sold him. Bought for £18 million and sold for approx' £30 million. simonorourke It's an unfair debate and vote, really. Ridsdale is not as fresh in the minds as Bates, for many LUFC fans. Nevertheless, Ridsdale wins this one hands down in my book. He almost put LUFC out of business. Bates may not be spending cash on players, but if that's the worst we can accuse him of then we're laughing. Ridsdale is pure, unadulterated scum. TSS Bates nearly put Leeds out of business. He threatened to liquidate us! michael horspool THIS HAS TO BE IN CAPS AS I CANNOT BELIEVE SOME PEOPLE ARE PUTTING RISDALE!!!!. what is worse the man who kills five in car accident or the serial killing rapist. Risdale was silly and niave and crap at his job. bates is a nasty arsewhole who know what he is doing but still not doing just as bad a job. again please all read list and i argue how anyone can not agree with these facts 1. at least Risdale brought some glory 2. Risdales mistake were made by many clubs and still going on, we were unlucky 3. bates has threaten to kill our club and liqudate us…WTF 4. Risdale cared like a old nan who gives sweets out of love not realising that by doing so the grandchild will be fat and bullied 5. Bates is knowingly squeeling life out of the club. 6. Risdale had O'leary any one at the top can fail with a monkey in charge 7. bates is the biggest arsewhole to have any kind of power since hitler (ok that might be a bit of an exxageration 8. leeds are going down Again and Bates dont care 9. risdale was sorry and Bates aint, i know who my parents would smack on the arse first Please, hire a hitman, find a pack of angry dogs, do some propergander of him slateing leeds and the women of the city (like with newcastle). put a gypsy curse on the man, hide all of his left shoes, just some one rid the club of the shitbag….please, im asking nicely….oh yeah i think Bates is worse by the way henry_v " He threatened to liquidate us!" That is not the same as actually liquidating us. Ken had to fight tooth and nail to keep the club afloat!! Ridsdale & his directors did the opposite. They all ended up with good jobs elsewhere. We ended up with heartache!! number1inyorkshire you are right Henry heartache and all of it at the hand of Kenneth William Bates . you are right threatening to liquidate us is not the same as doing it ,it's worse they were like kids throwing their rattles out of the pram . To be honest i think given the chance we would have survived the Risdale era had we kept the team instead of paying nearly 50 crap pros and kept some of the quality we had and not had fire sales then we would have survived that .we all remember terry venables at that woodgate press conference ,there are teams more in debt than us we know who they are , bates taking us in to administration was a cold calculated plan when we were relegated he took us into admin and the creditors or the main ones (him) blackmailed the administrator you have to remember he only originally bought 50%of leeds united he ended up with it all ,it back fired because he thought we would get a -10 points deduction at the time he never bargained for mawhinney and his other -15 / then there was the money it cost to appeal that . risdale nearly put us out of business ,well bates did, thats what admin is ,and we very nearly didn't get our place back thats more than risdale ever did i have said it before my mate LOST £30.000 many others lost money . we were nearer to losing leeds united under bates than at any time under risdale . normangunston No offence Andrew Nattan but your tongue in cheek contribution belonged more in the comments section. I was looking forward to hearing a convincing argument for KB but you bottled it. Mr603 Write it then. normangunston sorry didn't mean to have a go – let me expand my point. Defending KB right now is kind of like defending Hitler. It's a rhetorical challenge. You dodged it, with humour (in essence: KB is good because he's so shit our expectations are always low), whereas the TSS side was more of a conventional argument for Ridsdale. The pieces clashed. Hey, I don't mind a chuckle, but surely a more daring approach would've been to try for a serious defence of KB. and in case you were wondering, I loath KB as much as the next man. I just enjoy having my views challenged every now and again. henry_v I am not pro bates in any way but this debate is about who is the worst Chairman. Ridsdale was arrogant, irresponsible and stupid. Ridsdale created this whole mess, that we are still in now. Nobody has come along to buy Ken out with any serious offer. If they had we would know about it. Ken is ruthless, and egotistical but not stupid. He runs the club well and has his hand firmly on the controls. The hatred some of us have for Ken is blinding us to the truth. He is ALL we have just now. If he wanted to go he couldn't, as there are NO TAKERS!!! "Bates out" but then what??? Who is going to replace him?? THERE ARE NO TAKERS!!! No wonder Ken thinks little of us, if we think Ridsdale was a better Chairman! Ridsdale may be the worst Chairman ANY Football club has had in 100 years!! Our rivals are still laughing at us, since our downfall! "Were not famous anymore" – thank you Peter Ridsdale!! scarboroughwhite It seems to me that in football there are 4 types of chairman Type 1: The mega rich tycoon, buys a club, buys the best talent he can, money is no object but the club becomes a commercial footballing circus of talent rather than a team i.e. Man City and the managerial merry go round often has a few turns before achieving anything notable Type 2: The chairman who doesn't have much money but loves to mix it with the big boys so spends like a chairman who is mega rich…enter Peter Risdale. This sometimes works sometimes it doesn't Type 3: The old school like Dave Whelan. Buys a club for a love of football and the club, all money in goes back out in transfers and wages to strengthen as far as is reasonably possible Type 4: The chairman who buys a club for commercial gain or as an investment vehicle…enter Messrs Bates, Glazer, Hicks and Gillett. These chairman come into a club and try to make profit rather than pay much attention to the footballing part of the club. Yes, sometimes it is great and clubs can manage like Man Utd have shown, but it doesn't really do anything for the club if the chairman never spends I think that taking Liverpool as a vague example, it's obvious a change at the top is needed at Leeds to reinvigorate and refresh the club. The 365 day earnings plan makes sense but not as a football club, we might make a bit of money from a hotel, but this is a pittance compared to PL earnings! I'd love the first type of chairman to come to our club to add excitement but I'd equally settle for an old school chairman who wants the best for the club not for himself Jeff Craven Bates is worse at least ridsdale tried to make us succesful Markyouthinkmyfirstnameslong Lookhowlongmymiddlena but whos gunna buy bates out??? an arab ?? a euro lottery winner??? a bored billionaire???? cant see any takers so looks like a case of staying behind the team staying positive and hoping 1 day it will all cum gd MOT Ashley Oakes fuck off you deluded cunts. bates rescued us from risdales mistakes..remember? liquidation? know what that is? want a lesson in football?? stupid cunts go buy a history book before u go splashin out shit on here Ashley Oakes oh. And to say that ‘The scratching she’ got on talksport? the WORST representation our club could of asked for. HENCE why they allowed u to broadcast on the radio. everybody hates leeds. and you thick cunts dont realise that the media is hungry for negativity about us. and when its coming from our own fans, it gives us a real bad reputation. think about it. You fucking bell ends Ashley Oakes shed Paul Mortimer @Ashley swearing Philip Boyes Wow u have issues Ashley:D Jeff Craven WOT A PRICK! Jeff Craven BATES SAVED NOTHING, WE WERE HEADING FOR ADMINISTRATION ANYWAY WHICH WOULD HAVE LEFT THE CLUB OPEN TO ANY BIDDER. BATES SHIT HIMSELF AND THATS WHY HE BOUGHT THE CLUB BACK WITHIN MINUTES OF ADMINISTRATION AND THATS WHY WE WERE DOCKED 15 POINTS WHICH COST US PROMOTION. HE SAW A CHANCE TO TAKE A CLUB WITH MASSIVE SUPPORT, A REAL MONEY MACHINE AND LINED HIS POCKETS. WE SPENT 3 YEARS IN LGE 1 BECAUSE HE DID’NT INVEST IN THE TEAM, MEANWHILE NORWICH & LEICETER BOUNCED STRAIGHT BACK. WE ARE LOOSING REAL QUALITY PLAYERS EVERY YEAR DUE TO LACK OF FUNDS FOR WAGES AND WE REPLACE THEM WITH FREEBIES, LOANS AND JOURNEYMEN THAT ARE NOT FIT TO WEAR THE SHIRT. Ashley Oakes yeah but you protest thinkin its gna make a difference.. find somethin better to do with your time sad bastards Simon Barter that is the best example of caps lock being used to express shouting that i’ve seen for quite some time. HAVE IT!!! Jeff Craven cheers!