Should Queens Park Rangers be docked points? TSS March 14, 2011 Leeds United 96 Comments QPR await an FA decision on whether the Football Association will deduct the runaway Championship leaders points for seven charges relating to the transfer of Alejandro Faurlin. A decision to do so could throw the Championship title race wide open. With that in mind, we take a look at the charges QPR face and the likely outcome of the FA investigation. The charges Four charges of fielding an unregistered player: The FA claim that QPR fielded Faurlin for the entirety of the 2009-10 season, despite being owned by an unrecognised third party. This is in breech of a rule introduced following the Carlos Teves affair stating no club can field a player that is owned fully, or partly, by a third party. Using an unauthorised agent: QPR are also accused of using an unregistered and unrecognised agent to bring Faurlin to Loftus Road. Agents must be registered with FIFA to conduct business with English clubs. Falsifying documents: Both the club and the chairman have been charged with falsifying documents when Faurlin signed a contract extension in 2010. It is believed these charges also involve the unregistered agent. The precedent The obvious precedent here is West Ham United, who were charged £5.5m for their part in the Teves saga. Ironically, Neil Warnock (now QPR manager) was one of the most outspoken individuals in this case as he felt Teves had single-handedly kept West Ham United up in place of the team he then managed, Sheffield United. The club successfully sued West Ham for loss of revenue. However, the West Ham and QPR situation differ because the rules in place now were set in hindsight of the Carlos Teves case. The Football Association added the afore mentioned ban on clubs fielding players owned either in part, or fully, by a third party in light of the Teves saga. This means that QPR have violated additional rules from the ones that West Ham United did in 2009. Past precedent for using unlicensed agents comes from Luton Town, who were docked 10 points in 2008 for breeching this rule on four occasions. Likely outcome The real test for QPR will be the new rules that the FA brought in after the Carlos Teves transfer. This is the first time any club has been charged with breaking this rule, so the case will act as future precedent meaning the Football Association could be overly strict to ensure it sends a clear message to other clubs. Factoring in the punishment handed down to Luton Town, and the fact QPR have to defend themselves against two sets of charges that could incur a points deduction, the Loftus Road outfit have cause for concern. However, the chairman and manager of Queen’s Park Rangers seem strangely apathetic about the whole situation, with both of them suggesting they don’t expect a points deduction. Having challenged all the charges put against them, this could mean they know something we don’t. Alternatively, it could just mean that they fancy their chances against an FA board that will have to conclusively prove all charges. For me, the likely outcome is a fine – something QPR won’t be too concerned about, but heavy enough so other clubs would wish to avoid it. I’d be very surprised if The FA handed QPR a points deduction because of the position they currently find themselves in. If QPR fail to get promoted because of a points deduction handed down by The FA, and there is any remaining dispute over the punishment that could be challenged independently, this could lead to a lengthy legal battle between QPR and the Football Association on the grounds of lost income. What punishment do you think QPR deserve? Vote now and comment below. Time to go, Massimo? Yes. Get out of our club! No, I'm a Cellieber! View Results Loading ... Arron McCourt we have to be realistic here id rather Leeds went up by their own merits than relying on a points deduction, i would like to see them get a fine at least it will show the public and other fans and clubs that punishment has been handed out. Bill Re:- Fining a club like QPR will be like giving them a tap across the knuckles. They will have gotten away with blue murder. However knowing the FA’s track record I fear that is precisely what will happen. Bill Of course they should be docked points. This is the only sanction that has any teeth. Money does not seem to bother football clubs these days – not in the first two tiers anyway. Don’t the FL have any input on this? TSS The FL decided that the breech was above them and they had no past precedent to go off. This is not dissimilar to when Leeds exited administration without a CVA and were docked 15 points. The lack of past precedent didn’t seem to be of any concern to them then, instead they let our rivals decide our fate. Wonder why that hasn’t been considered again? Bill They are not Leeds. Funny the FA can’t take retrospective action against any player who has been booked unless they play for Leeds. KohSamuiWhites Wealthy clubs like QPR don,t give a monkeys about fines.In reply to the previous post,do you reckon most forest fans thought like you do when they were promoted on the back of our deduction?Nobobody shed a tear when we were deducted all those points.Rules are rules?except when it,s Leeds Utd. Jim White So we’re already guilty then! Good job we don’t let a FA hearing and their decision get in the way! TSS We both know you’re guilty. Whether the FA can prove it or not remains to be seen, but I have no doubts in my mind whatsoever that you’re guilty. Bill You’ve been charged haven’t you? FA hearings are the nearest you will get to a kangaroo court. You get a “fair” trial and then hung. TSS Yeah, Bill makes a good point. There will definitely be some punishment. I think the amount of evidence the FA have directly relates to the severity of it. If it’s not cast iron, they won’t risk docking you points as they’ll fear repercussions. Mark R Yes QPR should be docked points. MOT TheRsAreGoingUp Why should the team suffer for the lack of brain of our chairmain – thats if we are guilty. Take the 10 points, I would still fancy us for the title!# You R’ssssssss. TSS Funny. That’s exactly what we said when Leeds were docked 15 points. I wonder if your chairman voted against Leeds being docked points? Bill Your first comment suggests you believe in your guilt. Gary Speed Without hearing the full evidence from both sides it is a complete waste of time asking the question. stop clogging up newsnow with this shite! lol p.s only kidding. TheRsAreGoingUp And why do you lot care, you’re not getting near the top 2 anyway. Bottlers TonY Maroney it will probably depend upon whether they are found guilty or not??? they have been charged only. to me i dont care, we should be concentrating on taking advantage of our rivals shortcomings on the pitch not off it. i find it embarrassing people trying to cling to this points deduction, let the authorities deal with it Bill Oh come on! Makes a change for someone else to be in deep do do instead of Leeds. Lets enjoy it while we can. Tony Should they be docked points? Yes Do I want them to be docked points? No. I want the final game of the season to be a nothing game for them, and I certainly dont want to be playing them in the playoffs should we get there! Chicago White The falsifying claim is the most severe and if proven I think will be viewed dimly by the FA and could be even be a demotion penalty rather just points. QPR were given the opportunity to rectify and still screwed it up by falsifying documents is they say that the cover up is always worse than the crime, this is essentially fraud and weren’t Leeds City expelled from the FL for such actions. While I have sympathy for QPR fans (which is more than they had for us) the rules are the rules and appropriate punishment needs to be dispensed. aerospacemangoQPR Hmmmm….good to see so many people with a grudge, in one place! The fact is….when Faurlin was signed, the FL gave it’s ok on the deal. A month or so later, they changed the rules, and backdated the change to before Faurlin signed. These are known facts. Therefore, it is not the same as exiting administration without a CVA, is it? I understand that you ALL want to get back to your “rightful place”, but honestly…..your bitterness would be better spent urging your team on from the terraces, rather than worrying about something over which you have no control. COYR’sssssssssss Bill To be quite honest I personally don’t care one way or the other. There is nothing we as fans can do. I have no time for the FA/FL because they are only interested in themselves. Of course as Leeds fans we feel aggrieved because when we are taken to task the authorities seem to find no problem finding grounds for guilt-even if they have to invent them. I’m only on here to have a wind up and people are biting TheRsAreGoingUp Bill you are bitter and twisted. Don’t forget it’s not just the FA that hates Leeds, it’s every other club in the country. TSS We know. We love it. Makes us more interesting, boosts attendances at away grounds, keeps the press talking… All good fun. That very fact however does make the decision the Football League took to let other clubs decide our fate seem a bit unfair, don’t you think? Hardly surprising few Leeds fans have any sympathy. For my part, I’d actually prefer you to be runaway winners as it means our final game is unlikely to make a difference to you guys. I also don’t like the points deduction idea in the first place, so it would be hypocritical of me to suggest you guys deserved it just because it may (or may not) benefit Leeds when I’ve always spoken against points deductions in the past. In my defence however, all previous points deductions I’ve disliked have been those that punish a club who are struggling financially. Seems like an extra kick in the teeth when a team is down and out on luck. All this from a league that is supposed to support it’s members. Bill I know. Nice not to be famous anymore. Mark R Brilliant. MOT Dje Hmm, some pretty hefty breaches of the rules. Points deduction for fielding an illegible player are routine in the Football League. Considering someone at QPR apparently knew they were breaking the rules all along this makes it far more confrontational with the F.A. than just not realising some last minute substitute was actually cup-tied. As WE should know, the Football League are a bunch of vindictive, unforgiving, self-important sods, and they won’t want to look like fools when any millionaire foreign chairman roles in thinking they can do what the hell they like in the English game (for that they should have bought strait into the Premier League). I’d imagine the Football League would relish the fight too with QPR and any moans of lost income. Afterall, it is the Football League who make the rules, so QPR can only try and claim the penalties set against them are disproportional to the crimes they have committed. Without precedence but points deducted for other clubs for lesser crimes in the Football League, I wouldn’t fancy their chances. And making enemies in the Football League is not in their interest as they are likely to be back down in the Football League sooner or later even if they did get promoted this time around on a legal appeal. That the Premier League screwed up so horrifically over the Tevez affair, only adds to the chance for the Football League to throw the book at QPR in order to throw two fingers back at Scudamore and Co with their money-obsessed Premier League breakaway. _______ I imagine a 5-10 points deduction and a fine will follow – although, this may well be dished out when QPR are coincidently fifteen points clear with two games left to play. With their ridiculously good goal difference in the league, I think QPR would probably gamble and not appeal but aim to pick up a single point from the last two games to clinch promotion. The last game is against us. Could be interesting! aerospacemangoQPR “In my defence however, all previous points deductions I’ve disliked have been those that punish a club who are struggling financially. Seems like an extra kick in the teeth when a team is down and out on luck. All this from a league that is supposed to support it’s members.” This is a very good point, and very well made. Why give teams points deductions when they are so financially troubled? It’s a double dose of punishment. As much as I dislike Luton, I was amazed by their points deduction, as it came very close to putting them out of business. That should NOT be the aim of the FL. I don’t know how close it got for Leeds, but in those situations, points deductions are farcical. Come to Loftus Road, on May 7th, don’t rip up the seats, and perhaps we can ALL enjoy a promotion party?? TSS I’ll be there mate. Nothing like stereotyping by the way! We don’t all rip seats up… (often) aerospacemangoQPR “Posted by TSS on March 14th, 2011, 16:30 [Reply] I’ll be there mate. Nothing like stereotyping by the way! We don’t all rip seats up… (often)” Jeez! Sorry! It was just a bit of banter, after how things went with Palace! No offence intended! Oh…..and no throwing bottles at our Paddy!!! See? There I go again! Referencing the Palace game….NOT the actions of Leeds fans! TSS Haha. no offence taken. But we really are the nicest fans in football (when we win) Yorkiebar We dont want QPR in the play off mix if we are in the play offs as seems our most likley outcome they are one team we do not want to meet you dont get 10 points clear without being better than the rest!! Dje I’d take them in the playoffs. We beat them handsomely 2-0 before Christmas. To me that says more than overall league positions when abut to go into the playoffs games themselves. Compare that result with how we have done against Cardiff and Swansea and things don’t look so bad. daniel i think the league table should reflect how well the actual team does results wise and not how well it’s run behind the scenes. i personally think they should be fined. QPR have been by far the best team in the league and deserve to have a crack at the premier league. a points deduction ok would punish those involved in the faurlin transfer but also the fans the players and the manager who have worked so hard to get qpr where they are this season. badras well i think qpr should be fined and 25 points deducted . im a leeds fan an i dont care how leeds get promoted as long as they do. leeds ,norwich and leicester to get promoted this season . Nagoya Attack seeing that that football clubs can trick the tax man and quash winding up orders with ease yet real business that gross hardly anything go to the wall because of the clubs trading illegally, do you really think that the FA and FL will dock QPR points! QPR to get a fine, and clubs that bankrupt local business minus 30 points every time and every season. Bob C When I running a club I always told the players ‘there’s no satifaction in winning if you’ve cheated to do it. Football has changed, it’s not the team who plays the best football that wins, rather the team can cheat the best. aerospacemangoQPR “Posted by badras on March 14th, 2011, 16:41 [Reply] well i think qpr should be fined and 25 points deducted . im a leeds fan an i dont care how leeds get promoted as long as they do. leeds ,norwich and leicester to get promoted this season .” Now then….Look where bitterness has got you. Not only have you let your team down, and your fellow fans, but you’ve let yourself down, there! They won’t deduct 25 points, as they’ll know that we’ll take them straight to the CAS. As stated, at the time, the transfer was within the FL rules. They changed them after. Look at the facts! Bill What about using an unauthorised agent, not once but twice? And didn’t the FA ask QPR to clear up the players position when the rules changed and your management team allegedly failed to do so. eskeydog The FA can deduct us 10 point, hell even 15 points. We would still finish above Leeds, and if we have to beat you in the play off final – so be it. I, like many other QPR fans are sitting nervous waiting to find out what will happen. I first thought points deduction. However I believe for a speedy outcome, it will be a fine. If not, it will be dragged out for a long time. I would like to say we are innocent, however knowing our wonderful sporting director Gianni, this is doubtful. If we get a fine and he loses his job, it would be the best thing to happen to the club. Hell, I’d even take a 3 point deduction if it meant getting rid of that bloke. Matt BB if QPR arent docked points then the footbal league may well find themsleves subject to legal action by West Ham, unless they fof course trot out the kanagaroo court they used for us. Judge presiding Skippy McHopp, pet kangaroo of the chairman of the football league.. If this was Leeds United in the dock we would inevitably lose points and get a fine. It would be unfar to base a punishment on the financial wellbeing of a club, ie ££ for anyone else and Points if it was QPR, chelsea or Man City. I think the points gained whilst fielding the inevitable player is a fir way to do things. Aaron middle man Here’s some back up…the rule on third party ownership was made on the 4th August 2009 and back dated one month QPR had already signed Faurlin on the 7th of July therefore when he signed it was a legal signing. The argument of the Agent is infact the biggest argument qpr used a FIFA registered agent however this agent also needed to be FA registered. He is the same agent that looks after Bale, Crouch and Luis Figo. Some times in football teams images are ruin by the mindless few. Those calling for a deduction of 25 points please stop being stupid. QPR have rich owners but are not cash rich a fine will hurt the club as much as a lengthy court Batlle would the FA… the FA can fine qpr but if this is taken to high court and qpr win the case the FA would be liable to pay qpr loss of earnings (which could equal 90million-sky money and increased revenue for promotion) Which they simply can not afford. TSS £90m would a tough case to argue. Deloitte did say the overall increase in revenue could be £90m, but there’s too many variables that wouldn’t stand up in couty. You have to factor in that if you don’t get promoted this year, you may do the next so the loss of income would only be one years worth. Deloitte’s figure includes parachute paymenrs, which the FA could instantly wipe off any claim from yourselves, and they alone are worth £45m of the quoted £90m. That said, £45m (even though it’d be less than that) is still a sum the FA won’t risk losing, which is why a fine seems in the interests of both parties. This isn’t about justice or the rules so much as it is face saving on The FA’s part. They have to be seen to be acting tough, but at the same time won’t run the risk of damaging themselves. Aaron middle man You would also have to factor in individual players, law suits against the FA As many have been promised improved terms, extensions, increased salaries and in some cases (wayne routledge)Contracts with the club. If they fail to get those deals i can see some of them sueing…. TSS But then the FA could argue that most of that money would have gone on paying players, so in effect, they’ve saved you money. It’s a balancing act for sure, but I doubt £90m would be anywhere near the amount QPR would try to argue in court. Much nearer £20-30m I reckon, with a few individual players perhaps suing independently for another £10m. As I said in the original post, I doubt it will come to that. A fine seems inevitable to me, but The FA have to tread carefully as this case will be used as precedent from this day forth. Aaron middle man Fair point I doubt the FA would pay out on all of it… However even a third of the 90m plus court fee’s and players sueing could equal at least 45m Potentialy cost the FA That 45 Million plus the lost of fining qpr in the first place…15m??? Matt BB awful typing for fir read fair. Aaron middle man MattBB Was that directed at me?? Matt BB no it was directed at my own awful typing. you can just see the outcome of this whole sordid affair though. QPR will get off with a nominal fine, nominal to a football club anyway.. Bearing in mind it was last season and they did nothing last season it could be argued that they didnt deliberately influence the relegation places and so on. Saying that if they had come a cropper on this point last year and had been forced down to league One.. they wouldnt have had a bearing on this year. As much as i cant stand Neil Warnock, hes one of these managers a little like Ian Holloway that football benefits from having, while Holloway is entertaining and eccentric, Warnock is curmudgeonly, egotistical and childish, absolutely brilliant to watch though! Just seeing Andrew Raineys comments, and the facts are there for all to see, when Leeds havent followed the Letter of the law we are scapegoated, banised to league One and have a total of 25 points docked, if anyone else goes into administration its a standard 10 points, perhaps with the exception of Luton Town. Ricardo Of course they should be docked points. But as they are from south of Watford and not Leeds they will get away with it. A whitewash is on the cards methinks! Aaron middle man Ok so ur saying Man Utd further south then watford….would get a worse punishment then and other club further south. read the evidence Man United, Liverpool, Man City, Newcastle to name a few would get less punishments…. Ur bitter hopeing for points to be taken away because u know full well its the only chance you stand of gettin past us. See u at the loft u mug…. Ashdown_Ranger Let’s see if QPR is guilty? OK, with Paladini and Briatore involved it doesn’t look great, but the club and its legal team seem confident. The agent used is apparently registered and employed by a number of current Prem players. The transfer apparently took place before the new rules came in. The player involved was a virtually unheard of youngster – not the world class player like Tevez who could be said to have made the difference to West Ham staying up or being relegated. Clubs that cheat should be punished. I have no idea whether we have or not – so I’ll reserve judgement. Aaron middle man He is world class lol…… Mark R The voice of reason Ashdown Ranger. Fairplay. LUFC TSS Falsifying documents would appear to be the part where every argument I’ve heard in QPR’s defence falls down and is left unanswered. The rule didn’t exist when the player was signed, that’s fair enough, and the agent’s recognition is a grey area which won’t hold up in an independent court. However, the fact that QPR made no attempt to resolve the problem when the opportunity arose to do so (2010), but instead lied to the FA is where I think you’ll come undone. The rest of the charges seem beatable. But the one you seem to be stuck with is essentially fraud – how lightly an approach they take to that remains to be seen. Bill The other point here is the FA must be sure of their facts. They don’t normally charge clubs unless they have a cast iron case, or some obscure rule we have never heard of. Nagoya Attack “Posted by Ricardo on March 14th, 2011, 17:05 [Reply] Of course they should be docked points. But as they are from south of Watford and not Leeds they will get away with it. A whitewash is on the cards methinks!” ‘Massive clubs’ like Leeds and its supporters should rise above this- best rename the blog, dock everyone points regardless……unless they are Leeds. You have a good team, do your selves a favour and knuckle down to your fixtures in hand and not be so bitter. let hope they start docking points rather than fines for Brawls eh? ANDREW RAINEY ….at the end of the day, if it had been Leeds we would have been docked points so why are other teams treated differently? aerospacemango “Posted by ANDREW RAINEY on March 14th, 2011, 17:29 [Reply] ….at the end of the day, if it had been Leeds we would have been docked points so why are other teams treated differently?” Sorry, but where exactly is your proof of this? An utterly clueless statement, of the kind that would be made in a secondary school playground. Because you’ve had points taken before, for the admin/cva/thingy, you automatically suggest that the FL would take points off you for ANY rule-breaking? Incredibly naive, and childish. Most of the LUFC posters, on here, at least show a measure of intelligence, but this is just a ridiculous statement. Good luck Leeds, but that idiot….well… Colin At the end of the day QPR have brought themselves and the FL into disrepute,without question and I fear they may be even demoted a league with a huge fine aswell on top although 15-20 points deduction may be the outcome.They have been charged with serious,serious offences. Gryff Nice post, well presented! I think the only just result would be a 10-12 point deduction. The precedent of Luton’s deduction would be hard to shake off given the West Ham saga happened before new rules were introduced. The amount of rule breaking QPR did here makes it hard to dismiss, but with the club coming from London and being on the brink of an easy promotion I doubt the FA will do much. If they do deduct points it’ll only be 4-5 so that QPR are still easy money for promotion! mushroompete surely a ban to Paldini and Briatore would be a more fair charge against QPR. points deduction seems totally unrelated and unjust! it will only be felt truly by the fans who have paid all their moneys to go to games. If a removal or ban is put in place that will send a much firmer message to any further suggested corruption in any team at any level!! jamois Now, look at all the hot guff written when nobody has a fricking clue what the real story is. Leeds to get promoted on its own merits next year. QPR on its merits this year. End of. mushroompete We may not know weather or not QPR are infact guilty or not, but the talk of points deduction for an off the field matter is the key issue. Surely if a man does the crime it should be he who does the time. l l l leeds the last thing we want is qpr in the playoffs number1inyorkshire why we beat them easily at E R Rob qpr Totally agree with jamois get promoted on ya own merits not off our backs and if the charges are upheld there’s nothing more i would love to see than palladini kicked out the game forever but i honestly dont think the fa would take it out on the fans TSS I don’t think anybody is suggesting we want to get promoted by default, rather than by our own merits, but this is an unavoidable story at the moment that may well affect us. Let’s put things in perspective here though, if you have indeed fielded a player that’s helped you to the position you’re in – which considering the amount of appearances he’s made, seems a reasonable assumption – then why shouldn’t you be docked points? He’s helped you gain them after all. I stand by what I originally said, that I expect nothing more than a fine. I also stand by a previous comment that I don’t like the introduction of points deductions in the game. But this holier than thou stuff that you’re currently spewing is a little rich. You broke the rules and that player has had an effect, (some could argue, distorted) the league table. As for The FA not taking it out on the fans, you’ve found the wrong fanbase to make that argument. We suffered after all for Bates and the Inland Revenue going toe-to-toe with one another, receiving two separate points deductions as a result. Was it our financial incompetence that led to that disaster, or the individuals who sign the cheques and take out the loans? Max. If this was between seasons the authorities would have had the opportunity of imposing something worse (e.g. an automatic relegation – has happened) and then winding back to a significant points deduction as a compromise. They can’t do this in mid-flight because anything other than a final decision would draw in other clubs. West Ham, bear in mind, ended up settling with Sheffield United in a way which implied they should have been docked points. Given the QPR combination of misdemeanours seems marginally worse than West Ham’s (but for a less influential player – note btw West Ham also falsified statements, although in that case it was under a regime which was different to the one being disciplined) I would have thought they’d be on for a points deduction, but as a London club they will (like West Ham) get something weaker. At any rate, unless they’re found to be innocent of the charges, the punishment is likely to be controversial with one group or another. Shaun I couldnt give rats arse if or if not they have points taken off thm 10 gives leaved for leeds a min of 8wins need for hopefully second but should get us play off’s tho qpr have been the best team overall over 36 games last 10 race to finish no1 get auto or play off’s after 36 now COME ON LEEDS MOT Stan So Qpr are the only club to have hit problems bringing someone on from south america. These charges and the rules are daft and need to reflect the way soccer is run over there. The agent is FIFA registered and looks after premier league players apparently. So if Qpr do get a points deduction expect them to fight it all the way and create utter chaos. TSS Wouldn’t blame them for doing so either. Bringing players in from South America has always been a farce. number1inyorkshire course everyone says they should be deducted points why wouldn’t they ????. It seems 1stly that the football league are spineless useless organization , passing the book to the F A.they should have made the decision ,why can’t or won’t they .no precedent so what make 1 .fine em ,ban em , or deduct em points but don’t make yourself look more useless than you are . secondly the FA are as useless and spineless as the football league . if the rules have been broken then there should be a penalty ,now these rules need to be in place before hand e:g rule 1 the point for using an illegal agent is -20 points no appeal . These decisions can not be sent to other bodies on a no precedent set rule ,neither can there be sanctions set on a kangaroo court ad lib sentencing there needs to be rules in place before hand .we should know it cost us 15 points . just finally to all those qpr fans posting, leeds or any one else going up wouldn’t be going up just because they are deducted points ,remember any club would have to be in that position to start with ,on their own points scored . And don’t be under no illusion ,ask all the clubs who have had points deducted that they wouldn’t do this to fans THEY WILL remember these are organizations that fine clubs when there is crowd trouble for not controlling their fans . my opinion if they broke the rules deduct em all their points but put the penalties in writing 1st not on a had hoc basis EYLEEDS There are a few teams that i’d love to see deducted points, but generally I’m against it because it punishes the fans. There needs to be detterents / punishments but they have to be appropriate. In this case I would have suggested a fine was in order, but IF they are found guilty of falsifying documents then the FA should throw the book at them. I want us to get promoted on the pitch and not at the FA’s HQ. Isn’t that the point of football? MOT jamois TSS – more guff “You broke the rules and that player has had an effect, (some could argue, distorted) the league table.” Who says QPR have broken any rules? Erm, nobody yet. You don’t understand the facts of the case. Not even Neil Warnock understands the facts of the case; only the QPR barristers and the FA do (though it’s questionable whether the FA understand anything). So, let’s wait for the outcome. Let’s see which of the many charges, against a variety of rules, some important and some less so, are upheld or rejected in the appropriate environment. Then we ‘might’ know whether Faurlin’s presence on the pitch justifies your hyperbole and the inflated sense of worth you derive from moderating this conversation. TSS Ouch. Stinging insults there. Who is moderating a conversation by the way? Comments show automatically, and I’ve deleted/moderated none, evident by the fact your strop/insults remain – I’m simply participating in it. The FA wouldn’t have taken it to this stage without any evidence to do so. By your own fans admissions, it doesn’t seem unlikely. However, innocent until proven guilty is a fair enough comment – it just rarely plays out like that in front of the FA. This scenario now involves other teams whether you like it or not, and as such, other teams will comment on it. They will theorise, speculate and consider every piece of evidence they can get their hands on – in this case, it came mainly from The Guardian and Independent. The FA don’t charge teams and individuals without proof. As things stand, you have to counter those charges and try to prove your innocence. That means prove your innocence not only to the FA and FL, but every other team this effects. To recycle your own insult, I think you should get over your ‘inflated sense of worth’ and accept football is as much about the debate and drama, as it is about the 90 minutes where 22 players kick a ball back and forth. Max. Actually, the FA are saying there was a breach (TSS: note spelling) of the rules; that’s the nature of bringing charges. The fact that the matter still needs to be definitely ruled upon doesn’t mean nobody is saying QPR broke the rules. IF they are found to have broken the rules, they’ll get some kind of punishment. The precedent, in the League, is to dock points (viz: Luton; the precedent in the Premiership is WHU – a fine; neither cases are exactly the same as this one). As to whether the player had an effect on the season(s) in question, that should really be irrelevant, Warnock’s arguments at Sheff U notwithstanding. number1inyorkshire you broke the rules get over it ,The F A are bumbling to say the least and the football league ?????? .ITS a good job Mahwhinney not still in charge or you would have been thrown out altogether . Now the rule is generally don’t use unlicensed agents if you do face the executioner . mine and everyone else who supports any other clubs view is “choose the way you wanna die ” QPR fans are rightly hyperboling ?? (not sure if that’s a word ). Don’t come on a leeds forum and expect sympathy we got none and remember your chairman voted in favor of our points deduction at the time , If it came to the crunch love him or loathe him i bet ours wouldn’t vote against you the general consensus is if the rules have been broken ,let the points be deducted and not only that the player has to leave the club for free ,well to leeds if your asking John Gallagher A couple of points. 1) When we signed Faurlin, neither the FA nor the FL had any rules in place regarding third party ownership. Regarding the West Ham precedent. They say nothing about it, despite the PL having those rules in place. They only admitted their guilt when they were “grassed” up by Liverpool FC. The moment the Football League started talking about bringing in similar rules, we told them about Faurlin and then re-negotiated his contract to stay legal. 3) The use of an “illegal” agent. If the agent is illegal, then Barcelona and Real Madrid will be in trouble because the agent is responsible for Luis Figo. As are Inter Milan as the agent is responsible for Wesley Sneijder and Spurs as he is Gareth Bales agent! Sorry, Peppini Tirri is a fully accredited FIFA agent who has offices in London! Ilkleywhite Could you imagine the situation, if QPR were docked 10 points, and it all rested on the final game of the season (against Leeds) and both needed to win to go up, BUT that wont happen, QPR will get a rap over the knuckles and Leeds will get a further points deduction, just for being Leeds. Seem to remember Swindon a few years ago although promoted were docked points and ended up staying down Lets see what happens, but dont hold your breath Ilkleywhite This is the bit they might get a points deduction for, if its true. “Falsifying documents: Both the club and the chairman have been charged with falsifying documents when Faurlin signed a contract extension in 2010″. Tim Campbell I must say if the word and term punishment is being applied to this situation, then it is simply incorrect! What punishment would it be to fine a club who quite simply have bought their way to the brink of promotion. Points deducted are the only sure fire way of ‘punishing’ a club like QPR. Perhaps a point deducted for every game the player appeared in would be fair, since he has obviously had some input into their current lofty position (And NO i’m not being vendictive, although every other club voting against us still rankles with me!) mushroompete QPR have some very wealthy owners, yes. However, my faithfull but ever so deluded Leeds Fans, it is totally rediculous to claim they have “bought” their way to promotion. Most of their signing have been free transfers. Almost all were bosmans, and none exceeded 500K since Warnock arrived. I sense you are tasting bitter apples, and shame on you who do after it was the corruption of the Leeds premiere league years that brought them into despair. yet again, i reiterate, it is unfair on all of us footballing fans that we should suffer at the hands of corrupt businessmen buy being docked points due to some badly signed paper work. Points are not the correct punishment, but the fraudulant suit wearers should be stricken off. Mark R It’s all gone quiet ……. Half time oranges anyone ? MOT Matt BB mushroompete – So leeds were corrupt in the premier league? I dont think so, just inept I think. Mushroompete isnt a nickname for peter ridsdale is it? What youre tlaking about here is an `alleged’ attempt to hoodwink the football league, as that stroppy QPR fan pointed out to TSS (i hope you feel suitably chastened) it is of course all still alleged however and innocent until proven guilty, but on the face of it it looks reasonably serious. I have remained rather surprised by the lack of investment messrs briatore and mittal have put into QPR given their relative wealth – any offers QPR Fans? is Ken Bates advising them! Canadian Leeds Why should their position in the league have any bearing on the punishment? If they are guilty then hand them the points deduction based on the rules, if not move on. Not punishing a team because of their position reeks of celebrity justice! Canadian Leeds Oh … one other thing. If you support a team you support how they do business on and off the field, you can’t sit back and enjoy what your team does on the field and then say you shouldn’t be penalized for what they do off the field. These things go hand in hand and you don’t have to agree with how it is done, but you have to realize that when you celebrate their victories you also must be prepared to take it on the chin when your club screws up or gets caught doing illegal things! Elvis For me there is a case to answer and QPR will get some form of punishment. Rules are Rules and they have broken them. The Law’s an ass, but you still have to obey them or pay the price. I would expect the FA will take a look at the table and deduct 3-5 points pus a fine. That should ensure QPR still go up and they have sent out a warning to others. Leeds will wave to QPR as they switch places in a years time. Bates will deliver us back to the promised land and for that I shall be eternally grateful. Rob qpr Think all you leeds fans are a little bitter as mentioned earlier these charges are as yet unproven so lets wait for the outcome before you all start making judgement.in warnock we trust and if he’s not worried neither am i and for you lot to suggest that we have bought promotion is mad when you have teams like cardiff in the league who obviously have and in my opinion taken a massive gamble doing so Chicago White For all the QPR fans on this blog if your so confident why come onto a Leeds blog, I’ve never been on a QPR blog or forum! The FA charges while yet unproven are serious specifically the one in regards to falsifying documentation, while QPR are innocent until proven guilty look back in history the FA seldom if ever bring a club up on a charge and they are found innocent especially when its a very serious charge. The other counts QPR may get waved but if the club did falsify the documentation as a cover up when the FA gave QPR the opportunity to escape then they will have the book thrown at them. Personally I suspect for the majority of Leeds fans we have significant sympathy with QPR fans, probably a lot more than QPR fans with Leeds when we were unjustly docked an additional 15 points after receiving a 10 point penalty. We certainly are bitter but not with QPR fans or even QPR as QPR means nothing to us, we are certainly bitter about the FA/FL and with just cause as starting as far back as 1919 Leeds have been held to a higher standard than every other team. As other Leeds fans have stated if this was Leeds and proven guilty we would minimally get a points deduction if not worse. Colin Warnock It is fair to say the QPR fans have bitten If the bloke is deemed to have been signed against the rules then any points QPR have gained when he was playing should be docked. Simple. However QPR have been the best team this season (apart from at Leeds when they were dire) so it would be a shame for their fans if any mis-management at their club stopped them going up. I hope they go up tbh …and we go up 2nd but we’re not quite ready yet. Good luck QPR. Joe Miller QPR will be fined. Had it been LUFC there’d have been a huge fine AND a points deduction. We know because we’ve been there and done that. Sir Quej No points deduction.. I personally hate the FL and FA coz they are bunch of self adoring power mad wankers. Breaches of the FL rules go on every day. I think the football authorites should spend more time trying to sort out their referees and getting rid of diving etc. Things that truly effect the game. Ultimately, QPR signed a player. Does it really matter who owns 20%, 30% or 40% of his contract? Does having a player who is partly owned by a third party give you that extra edge? Does it fuck. The only infringement I think they should be punished for (if found guilty) is the falsifying documents one, coz as someone pointed out, thats fraud. The other rules are just bollox anyway. Good luck to QPR. they are at the top of table because over the course of the season, they have been the best team and deserve to be there. How about we let that be the most important facter eh? RADJ its not because im a QPR fan that i feel that way but i would have had the same view had it involved any other clubs. the one to blame here is the F.A and they have a lot to answer for. they are so strict and fussy when it comes to transfer deadlines and i remember we could not signed two players on the deadline day because we were ?late by around 7 minutes and the papers were considered invalid. they seems to have been aware that there was something wrong with the faulin transfer long time back but then why wake up from their coma now and with 10 matches to go, they have decided to take action. who is more to blame QPR or the F.A ? i personally think no club should be left unpunished if they do not comply with the rules and regulations of the game but it is the role of the F.A to ensure that this happens and actions should be taken straight away and not when they fancy like……two years later and at a crucial time for any club in any league. hopefully it will be a favourable outcome should it be the contrary, all the QPR fans should team up and sue the F.A for failing to take action at a much earlier stage when they were aware of the aparent wrongdoings radj QPR FOR EVER QPR Queens Park Rascals With Owners Like Lakhsmi Mittal And Bernie Ellecstone QPR Wouln’t Care Even If They Got An £1,000,000 Fine LOL. Raoul To me, the most interesting thing about this is the timing of when QPR’s punishment will be announced – which I understand will be the day before the final games of the season. Are they waiting till then so they can make damn sure that the points deduction bites? Or are they doing it to make sure it does not bite? Basically, they can choose the impact of the punishment, rather than just the punishment itself. A punishment should be a deterrent and it should hurt – so one could argue that the last minute announcement is fair enough. On the other hand, several teams may go into the last game of the season having their lives turned upside down and having done the wrong training preparation, including Leeds of course. In this respect, other clubs are being unfairly affected when only QPR are in the dock. Also, it would mean that the punishment could not be used as a precedent in future cases, as the points deduction would have been tailored to QPR’s lead in the table rather than based on the actual crime. To me, a fairer solution would be to have either announced something ages ago, or to have said absolutely nothing and then dealt with it after the end of the season (although I suppose any legal challenge could then delay the start of next season). I am a QPR fan of 35 years and if we have broken rules and acted with a lack of ethics then we should take a fair penalty. To be honest, I am assuming we will get docked 10 points, and am praying that we are 13 pts clear of 3rd on Friday 6th May, because the thought of having to get something against Leeds fills me with dread – especially with a team likely to be in shock only 24hrs after having the points taken away! In the spirit of making sure the “right” clubs get promoted, QPR have not relied on Faurlin for victories like West Ham relied on Tevez, so I do not believe for one moment that any crimes committed have resulted in the promotion we seem likely to earn. I suppose the best result all round is for QPR to be docked points and have to win the last game, and then to win it…or to be found not guilty of course!