The Sydney Morning Herald are claiming that Frank Lowy has turned his attention to Crystal Palace after Ken Bates’ antics turned him off the idea of buying Leeds.

The latest rumour comes from the same newspaper that originally linked Lowy with a takeover of Leeds United so it’s hard to say whether it’s credible or not, given that we still aren’t sure whether the original rumour had any merit.

The SMH are quick to highlight Ken Bates’ attack on Frank Lowy in their latest piece, clearly suggesting that our chairman’s antics may be one of the reasons Lowy is pursuing other interests – aside from the obvious facts that Leeds have no real assets and a hefty price-tag for a team struggling to escape from England’s third tier.

If there is some truth to this and Lowy has turned his attention to Crystal Palace, I don’t think we can put any of the blame at Ken’s doorstep. I suspect it’s more a case of Lowy shopping around for the best deal than Ken scaring him off – after all, you don’t become a billionaire without making clever financial decisions.

This doesn’t change my view of Ken Bates however. His comments were an embarrassment to the club and it’s fans. They showed Ken Bates for the ignorant, self-obsessed, petty idiot he really is. The man is supposed to be a representative of Leeds United FC and in such a role, he should be doing everything he can to attract investment into the club. What he shouldn’t be doing is undermining anyone who shows a potential interest. Especially when he “allegedly” has no shares in the club itself.

Meanwhile, a new Leeds United fans initiative has been set-up by a coming together of various groups. The new campaign, called ‘TenForKen’ aims to put pressure on the board of Leeds United to answer the growing number of concerns our fanbase has about it’s failing ownership. You can only hope they get answers where so many others have failed.

  • West Stand Rebel

    The ten points are similar to ten points I asked some months ago and are absolutely the right questions to ask. I consider that the fans are the only true shareholders in that they are the only people to actually put money into the club. Ok money comes from other sources such as sponsorship and media rights but these are commercial business transactions with a pay back.
    Unfortunately the fans voice at ER means less than nothing to Ken Bates and so being classed as a shareholder is just a sick joke. You get a third division product for a premier league price.
    Good luck in getting these questions answered but frankly you have no chance. As I have said before the only way to hurt Ken Bates and to hasten his departure is not to give him any more money. Hard I know because you may have to foresake live football for sometime to achieve this aim.

    • simon

      Hello TSS

      Disappointed not to read your comments on the Gills match………guess its too depressing

      Lets face it we do not have a credible team for the championship

      Simon Grayson clutches at straws with his pre + post match interviews.

      No financial investment equals no future

      Quality is required to replace those of mediocrity which we seem to have plenty of………..?

      • TSS

        There is a match report for the Gills game that I posted this morning Simon.

  • Totally agree, we have way too many alsorans in our team. There is no way most of them will be able to step up to the plate in the Championship…they can’t even do it in the 3rd tier. Saturday was an effing joke…getting battered by an injury ravaged team fighting relegation for f_____ sake.

    The players should hang their heads in shame after that performance, oh and also the ones against Millwall, Swindon…ie the games that really matter! Not fit to wear the shirt? I wouldn’t even offer it to most of ‘em.

    My prediction….Huddersfield in the Play Offs and we’ll bottle it again.

    A f____ joke we are.

  • david

    There is talks of delph coming back for the last 3 games and maybe the playoffs????

    • Trebor

      Delph is out for 8 months with cruciate ligament damage….so maybe he is coming as he would still be better than half of our squad fully fit.

  • Dje

    I can see the Crystal Palace connection being as much about the club trying to use Lowy to tout other potential buyers. If I’m still unsure whether we would be a better prospect for Lowy as a League One or Championship team, I’m quite sure that Lowy would be considerably less interested in Crystal Palace if they get relegated in a fortnight.

    At least there could be a summer of ownership speculation on the cards.

  • Mark R

    Interesting questions on the ‘Ten for Ken’ questions TSS.

    Would be good to see a group of well connected White Knights come to the fore and take on the ‘rebuilding work’.

    Sustainability is what any successful concern needs . We do need to own the stadium & training ground .The fans need to feel their appreciated with reasonable ticket pricing structures .

    A conveyor belt of home grown talented footballers is a must , and this is a key area for us in terms of developing the team and also developing players to sell on when we have to. The Academy is critical to our success and it needs more investment.
    Home grown local footballers:Population of Yorkshire around 5 million ,
    YET there are only 3.5 million in Uruguay and they’re in this summer’s f’ing WORLD CUP!

    Need to make our assets generate revenue when there are no matches at the stadium. More pie sales on none match days – Corporate Pie Events !

    I think we’ll probabley need to get up to the Championship first before there are any serious investor/s – and even then we’ll be competing against relegated Premiership teams , with their 2 or is it shortly to become 4 years worth of parachute payments.

    Not exactly helpful for open competition but something we’ll have to deal with.

    We must get up this season to give ourselves a fighting chance.

    MOT

    • les

      i mentioned about white knights myself last week and was abused for pinching “a scum idea” i agree and until then we have to put up with bates . what we firstly need to do is stop paying money to the official supporters club which has no voice for the fans and instead cost £30 which bates takes and gives nothing
      secondly we need all those 30 000+ fans to set up a members club which is independant and properly run not another voice for bates .
      if 30 000+ fans are part of a well run unified members club bates will have to listen he cant not sell us tickets for instance so it will render the EARLY BOOKING OPPORTUNITES WE GET FROM HIM ETC USELESS .
      bates insist he owns NO shares in our parent company so he is making unilateral decisions ALRIGHT THEY PUT HIM IN CHARGE or did they ? maybe he has lied under oath and he does own the company and therefore has also coomited illegal activity under the terms of coming out of administration .
      can anyone out there on the scratching shed give me an adress for fsf , krato trust etc cos ive been trying to see if they will sell me some shares i cannot find one if they are a trust with 10 000 members 1or 2 might want to sell shares, they have a duty to notify them someone wants to buy ,they are after all in it for the money
      come on you white knights

      • rockincolin

        have you not heard of the leeds united supporters club a truly independant org that used to be the official supporters club until uncle ken stuck his nose in and formed the members club and all the traitors left to join our kens party

  • david

    ANYONE ELSE HEARD THIS DELPH TRANSFER NEWS?

    • les

      how can he come there is no transfer window now only for goal keepers in an extreme emergency

    • Colin

      I can smell bullshit

    • Trebor

      He’s out for 8 months with cruciate ligament damage.

  • Rob

    Enjoyed reading the questions, answers to even a few would help decipher some of the Da-Batesy code that our Club has become.

    The only question that irks me slightly is the final one: How much would you sell the Club for?

    If this group of fans wants even the remotest of chances to buy themselves airtime with the Club then it needs to ask credible questions. Leeds wouldn’t answer this for so many reasons. If they were truthful it’d put them at a disadvantage on the negotiating table. If they lied then it’s meaningless anyway!

    Although this is one question of many, it immediately looks amateurish and is ammunition for someone like Bates to shoot down their efforts. This is a shame as I fully back their endeavours to reveal more.

    Concentrating on a handful of key questions would have been a better approach, and a more digestible tact for the Club should they surprise everyone and decide to engage a real life fan!

    I can’t help feeling though that without a press worthy spearhead this bandwagon will remain where it is now, in cyberspace. It’s too easy to ignore.

  • barry micheals

    Hi david yes i saw that on sky sports news aswell in martin oniels interview.

  • steven LUFC

    I think it would be great to have him back, would be a big lift for the club, especially if he still has the same heart.

  • Big B

    Come on Guys!! All these conspiracy theories!

    Palace do not own their ground either and their price tag is likley to be similar to that for LUFC, even though we have a bigger fan base and better crowds! Is it a better investment then? Dont forget there is a potential -15 points awaiting them too if the do not agree a CVA with creditors and HMCE are unlikely to let them off lightly!

    No businessman expects a warm friendly welcome when seeking to take over a company. An agressive, outspoken blast is very unlikely to put anyone off if the deal is good! Suggesting Lowy is that weak willed is an insult to the Aussie billionaire.

    As for the Aussie press, they said due dilignece had been done in January. Poppycock! If it had, Ken Bates would have know about it and they would have had to pay a fee (non refundable) to look at the books. (Ref: amongst others Portsmouth)

    Yet, because it appears as the written word we LUFC fans all get raised blood pressure!!!

  • les

    DELPH
    the transfer window closed on the 23rd march and is now only open to teams which have an extreme difficulties in fielding a team .EG a team might have all its keepers injured which means they could get in an emergency loan to cover that position . as mr delph is a midfielder and we have several he would not be able to come as pretty much anyone can play in midfield including me in ours at the moment .
    the good news is if o neill has been talking about it he might mean he is coming for the whole of next season ,which would have been the cmomon sense approach when he left

    • macadamia_man

      “he would not be able to come as pretty much anyone can play in midfield including me in ours at the moment”

      LOL. In fact it even cheered me up. Nice one . . .

  • Harry

    Delph is out for 12mths with a cruciate ligament injury, so won’t be coming either this season or next. Why would he anyway, Grayson likes to keep his premiership loan players on the bench, they don’t even get a look in when we are 3-0 down after 30mins to a relegation threatened team. McSheffrey scored 2 cracking goals for the reserves last week but didn’t get a look in on Saturday, and what exactly was the point in bringing Sanchez Watt in? I was a big fan of Grayson but he’s been found seriously wanting during our bad spell this year, he’s looked clueless.

  • Colin

    This gets better and better – TEN FOR KEN!!

    Why not add an 11th question to the list:

    “Ken are you going to read any of these questions?”

    I’ll tell you the answer now – No.

    Goodnight. Now shut that shit and pointless webpage down.

    • REAL PAPPA SMURF

      NAHH HE WILL READ THE QUESTION BUT HE WONT ANSWER THEM
      BUT DOES THAT MEAN YOUR HAPPY WITH MR BATES RUNNING THE CLUB FOR 10THOUSAND SHARE HOLDERS
      i also agree with others grayson has lacked some serious qualities when it comes to transfers
      sanchez watt ,what about him ,teams will stop lending us players if he doesnt play them .thats the point to loans

    • West Stand Rebel

      Sorry Colin these are not pointless questions and they do get through to Bates one way or another. Look at his reaction to David Conn’s articles in the Guardian. Look also at his reaction recently to season ticket sales. The chanting at the Southend match could clearly be heard in the West stand where he sits just behind me. Little by little bit by bit he is getting the message that he and his tax dodging exploitation have no place at ER.
      It will be a long road to get him out but we are winning the argument and one day we will succeed. After all there is nothing left to sell and very little more damage he can do that hasn’t been done to us before. The fans are all that is left and even he can’t sell us. M.O.T.

      • les

        i told bates myself we have along and illustrias history of removing chairman
        he rang me 2 weeks ago when i vented my spleen after millwall game
        trust me he is up for a battle but we have to get the higher moral ground and i think secret tax exiles gives us a flying start
        the ten for ken questions however will be read but they will not be answered
        however they are reasonable questions to ask i again asked some myself
        when he rang me he did it from monaco and he did not hide his number so i still have it
        shall i put it in the programme any one

        • Craig

          Are you being serious Les? The first time I read about KB phoning you I thought you were joshing. Now I’m thinking: “either this man is serious or he’s delusional.” Enlighten me please.

      • Colin

        Firstly boo at Ken as much as you want. He doesn’t own LUFC, FSF own Leeds. Do you want Ken out or FSF?

        If you want Ken out then that’s pointless, because you’ll just get someone else who runs the club on FSF’s behalf.

        Why do you want FSF out? They’ve been passed as fit and proper by the Football League and there’s no evidence that any other investors would be any better.

        What do you want?? Do you want FSF to put LUFC up for sale? If that happens then an administrator will come in, a la KPMG, and try and find a buyer. While this goes on KPMG get a huge fee for their work all charged to LUFC.

        Do you really think that by the club being put on the market you would get any better investors than FSF? There has been zero interest from outside investors in either putting money into LUFC or buying the club outright. If there was then they would have showed their hand by now – they’ve had 5 years.

        If there was an investor interested in LUFC with more money than FSF then they would have bought it off them by now. It’s easy – offer FSF £50m cash and it’s yours. If an investor can’t find that money then they’re not worth having.

        If you put the club up for sale, you probably would get interest in LUFC but they would have less money than FSF currently have. So you would have to sell LUFC to an investor with even less funds to try and develop the club.

        If Ken bent the rules and was a bit cheeky in getting Leeds, then so be it. It’s done now. You can’t go back.

        But if you’re having a go at Ken because we just got beat by Gillingham or because ticket prices have gone up then that’s just stupid.

        If we were making £10m, 20m, 30m profit year on year then you would have a point on ticket prices, but when the club’s last accounts show £16,000 profit, then it’s just a stupid argument having a go at the board.

        Just reverse it – if you were the owner of Leeds and you’d just got £16,000 profit, you would be livid. Let’s be frank, the current investors aren’t in it for the money, because they’ve got absolutely nothing in return compared to the money they’ve shelved out.

        If there’s a billionaire out there who wants LUFC then great, get him/her on-board. But there hasn’t been one for 5 years and I doubt there will be one in the next 5 years either.

        A lot of people seem to forget one very important thing – we’re a 3rd division club.

        • timm

          Well said Colin. I wonder if the various groups who are putting so much effort into getting Bates & FSF out (or is it just Bates? I’m not quite sure?)are also putting their efforts into trawling the globe to find a buyer too? None of those wealthy businessmen who pretend to be Leeds fans have come up with any plans or done any due diligance with a view towards taking us over or investing in us. The truth is that none of them have got the stomach for it while we’re a 3rd tier club with a rusty old stadium & a shit team. I remember all those suits who used to fill the directors box when Ridsdale was here, when Bates came in he asked them to pay for their seat to help the club, which im sure we all agree is a perfectly fair request? Well apparently not, because the tight freeloading bastards all stopped coming! While i don’t dispute that there were a couple of anti-Bates groups around the club, im sure that no one will deny that this has all escalated since we imploded on the pitch. We all need someone to blame & Bates is an easy target. What matters for the next 3 weeks is on the pitch, so i’d suggest getting behind the team (although i know this isn’t easy for some of the arseholes that latch on to our great club!)& if & when we go up we can wait & see if FSF invest adequately in the squad for next season. If there’s a lack of investment in players then why do we have the biggest wage bill in the league? Why wasn’t this supposed lack of investment dominating chatrooms when we’d just beaten Man Utd & were at the top of the league? It’s the same players who are crap now. Our precarious situation in the league at this moment in time is down to Simon Grayson & his players, so let’s stop pretending it isn’t.

        • Colin, surely you are not fooled by the fictional £15000 profit ?????? It is standard practise for companies to record as little profit as they can when submitting the books. It means they pay less tax. The P&L presented, contains an undefined amount of £20million or so under the title “Administration Costs”. The fact is that this could be anything and is probably undefined for a reason. Of course the owners are earning money from LUFC, they woudnt do it otherwise, would you?

        • paul (whinmoor)

          colin, are you ken’s son ? ? thats the only reason surely why you are talking like this. how do you know he doesnt own the club ? coz he says so ? the man is the most bent, manipulative, horrible man thats ever been in football and we have the gross misfortune that he is at our club. only made 16000 last financial year ? are you completely naive ? thats the reason you pay 169,000 in accountants fees, to cover up the millions that have slipped thru the club into his grubby fist. why do you think there has been no investors come along ? coz nobody will do business with the horrible man. wise up colin, you are either relsted or just thick.

  • Benjamin Bunny

    Delph coming back is silly! Een if he wasn’t injured, he’s started 8 times already this term for Villa so why would he drop down 2 Leagues to us? Silly rumour.

  • Paul C

    It is quite feasible that this article from Australia is a load of nonesense..But…and it is a big BUT ..what if it were true??? What if Lowy decided that he wanted nothing to do with our club because of our chairman?

    Even the usual Bates sycophants couldnt defend Bates and his ignorant, loud, obnoxious mouth if it were true..could they? Even they would have to admit that the man is just perhaps , not the best person for the job he currently holds…

    • Colin

      “Even they would have to admit that the man is just perhaps , not the best person for the job he currently holds…”

      Great – so who are you going to get to chair Leeds (for £0 wage which Ken is on) especially when they see all the shit from Leeds fans that has come Ken’s way and will come their way if they took the job??

      Will all those wonderful philanthropist Chairmen who are all sweetness and light and want to run Leeds and work for free please form an orderly queue…

    • timm

      If a billionaire walked away from a multi million pound deal just because someone he never even has to meet has a loud & dirty mouth then that billionaire is nowt but a pussy! How do you think managers cope with Fergie ranting? & i don’t mean in the press, i mean the stuff in the technical area. Have you played sunday league football?? This is a mans world & i thought these Aussies were tough? If somebody walked away from the table because they didn’t have the stomach to take on an old cockney duffer then i don’t think i’d want them here!

  • les

    the biggest point is that bates doesnt want to sell he wants people to invest and buy 49% of lufc ,now thts the problem he has and will frighten people away noone will spend 20million to work with bates and thats why there has been no intrest in 5 years not because we are in league 1 .aswell as that it is not upto bates if the share holders want to sell and as we are in the middle of a recession some might, how do you find out where they are i would buy some shares if they were up for sale .neither is it as simple as saying if he has broke a few rules its done now its too late .firstly if he has broken rules he could go to prison for contempt.secondly he will have broken administration law ,thirdly he would not be a fit and proper person .creditors might have got more money had someone else bought the club ,if bates lied to the administrators and the league what would be the consequences for the club ,more point deductions ,remember swindon being demoted .
    lastly they are thinking of changing the tax laws so bates might get a hefty bill
    when we went into admin we owed fsf nearly 20 million quid well at 16000 pa profit thats gonna take some paying off iam pretty sure normal investors who play the markets would sell to get there money back if we can find them .
    what hold over them does bates have unless there is no 10 000 people and he owns the company if thats the case he has lied

  • les

    also we have to ask
    WHY WOULD A MAN WHO HAS NO SHARES IN A COMPANY WORK A FULL WEEK TRAVEL ROUND THE WORLD PAYING HIS OWN BILLS (FLIGHTS ETC)IN THE NAME OF A COMPANY HE DOESNT OWN AT THE AGE OF 79
    WOULD YOU
    NO
    MAYBE WHEN PUSH COMES TO SHOVE AND WE DO REACH THE PROMISED LAND OF THE PREMIER LEAGUE AND HE HAS TO TELL THE OWNERS OF THE CLUB
    BARING IN MIND IF WE GET THERE TOO EARLY HE HAS TO PAY ANOTHER 5000000 QUID SO DOES HE WANT US THER YET
    HE WILL NOT OWN THE SHARES
    BUT THE REGISTERED OWNER WILL BE NONE OTHER THAN >…..WAIT FOR IT …WAIT FOR IT
    MRS SUZANNA BATES OOOOHHHHHHHMMMMMMMGOOOOD

  • richard

    Yeah there is talks of Alan Smith coming back to leeds aswell as he wont be able to handle prem footy next season….

    would we take him back?

    • Colin

      Richard, I hope you’re joking.

      I’m smelling bullshit again.

      Alan Smith is on £60,000 a week at Newcastle.

      There really is some bollocks being discussed today.

    • timm

      Never- JUDAS

      • Tony Currie’s Curler

        JUDAS??? Grow up! He did what he had to do, you know the story as well as I do. So give up on the CRASS Judas rubbish!

        Smithy would be welcome because he would give his all for this club.

        And he wouldn’t be on £60,000 here – gone are those day’s for him.

        • timm

          Rubbish! He’s a JUDAS & all the storys of him ‘taking one for the team’ & going there just to help us out are rubbish too & we all know they only started surfacing as part of a PR campaign to test the water with the fans because he wanted to come back to do some commentary work. Why didn’t he go to Everton then? They offered the same fee but less wages. He didn’t do what he ‘had to do’, he did what he chose to do.

          • Dje

            I think the line goes: Man Utd offered the money upfront, Everton wanted to pay through the common practice of paying by installments; and we were desperate. We are still desperate.

  • les

    i really dont know where we get some of our fans from there really is some thick c—s out there they wouldnt know a football from a ? well i dont know what but you know what i mean????!!!!!????
    delph ,smith what next cantona ,messi the fu—ng tooth fairy
    any other ex players we can name who might come back

  • Matt bb

    It’s amazing isnt it, frank lowy’s interest turns away from foul mouthed cockney tw@t ken bates, to foul mouthed cockney tw@t with a wig and orange face simon jordan.. Clearly he is an appalling judge of character, palace are likely to join us in division three, or the awesomeship or whatever its known as nowadays.. They dont own their ground either, the smell of bovine stools is drifting nearer.. My random tip for a former player coming back, harry kewell, fat useless and with a massive ego, lets get him on board.

    • Dje

      Kewell? Who do you think actually owns all those FSF shares!

      • Matt bb

        It has to be ken bates who owns all the shares.. Surely, and hed like it to stay like that..

        • Dje

          I just like the gallows-humour irony that FSF is just a front for the likes of Seth Johnston, Robbie Fowler, Mark Viduka and Harry Kewell.

          Not content with the massive pay-off and the wages we wasted on them over the years, they came back for more by buying the club with this money. Sort of a perverse pension fund.

    • timm

      He could be Lowys ‘eyes & ears’!

    • Craig

      ‘Awesomeship’ – I love it!

  • timm

    Nice to see LUFCs education dept getting recognition from Education Leeds. Apparently they work with over 400 learners at Leeds Utds learning zone, local schools & at Wetherby Young Offenders Institute. Always nice to see our club investing a substantial amount of time & money to help kids & adults locally.

  • Tony Currie’s Curler

    Bates runs Leeds just for the fun? COME ON!!

    He owns the lot and is making lots of money doing it! It’s so obvious and anyone is pathetically nieve to believe anything else.

    He doesn’t want Lowy or anyone else looking at the REAL books – And I don’t mean that clap trap they published £16,000 profit my ares!

  • richard

    Whenever he dosent have a game for newcastle gess where he is????
    i would take him back, would show a lot more grit and determination than the buttercups we field at the moment!!!!!

  • brad

    David batty is meant to be making a sensational return to football aint he?

  • Mikelufc

    The above pile of shit starting with the original article by TSS is down to us all feeling seriously scared shitless at the prospect facing us, anther season in this division which looks increasingly likely.

    I do not like Ken Bates any more than anyone else but the fact is that he has nothing to do with our present situation save for the fact he appointed Larry.
    He did this with very good reason to believe he was just the man to take us forward.

    His big mistake was letting him continue in his inept and clueless manner, of course this incompetence did not start to show until midway through the season ( we had been very lucky until then) when it is not only very risky swapping horse midstream but who the hell was available at that time.

    He faced exactly the same dilemma we all faced, “is this just a temporary blip?
    It wasn’t but who could guess, so don’t heap it all on Ken, Larry had more resources than any other manager in the division and more than half a year to get his act together, he has failed miserably especially getting rid of dougie and prutts who could have saved our arses and given us hope, something the present shower do not do.

    Of course there are other issues like TA and ER but what is getting at everybody at the moment is our predicament caused by on field shite being dished up.

    • TSS

      Thanks for the kind comments Mike!

      So, another year, another manager is what you’re suggesting? Once again failing to recognise this club is going nowhere without investment and also failing to acknowledge that the idiot at the helm is doing nothing to try and attract investment into the club.

      This denial culture that some fans have truly baffles me. No matter how many mistakes Bates makes, and how many lies he tells us, everything is forgiven time and time again. Continuing to sack managers is a ridiculous idea until one of them is provided with the necessary funds and playing staff to achieve our goals. Like it or not, loanees and free-transfers have never got a club promoted because they have no reason to care when the going gets tough.

      Anyone who still believes Simon Grayson had a “war chest” in January is naive at best. Especially in light of our recent accounts being published that show the club is reliant on selling players to make a profit.

      Leeds United desperately need investment to move forward. Bates is a total moron who no one wants to work with. His speeches are embarrassing to the club and himself, and the sooner he’s gone, the better.

      • timm

        Well i must be nieve then TSS because if Grayson says he has money to spend, then why shouldn’t we believe him? & what he hasn’t spent on fees he’s more than made up for in wages. Managers don’t just lie because they’re scared of their chairman! & if you think that then it’s you that’s nieve. It would be just as easy for SG to say ‘there’s a bit of money but you have to remember we’re a 3rd tier club & we haven’t got too much to throw around’. If he’d said that then we’d accept it. Also, you’re basically calling SG a liar. I wish everyone would stick to the facts on here. There’s even someone saying he could have stood aside for Pearson?! Does he mean Adam Pearson? It’s all news to me?

      • TheReaper08

        why is someone naive to believe there was a war chest for January but you are not for thinking the eopposite ? Neither parties have the facts and the only piece of evidence contradicts your own conclusions.

        And before you go off on the how much I love Bates guff TSS you will note I don’t offer an opinion just a question.

        • TSS

          There is no evidence to the contrary though Reaper. The accounts show we have no available funds. The TA disaster was further proof of that. Never in all my years following football have I seen a manager bring in loan signings and free-transfer has-beens when money was available. It just doesn’t happen, because everyone knows you get what you pay for.

          • TheReaper08

            But people keep flitting between the 2008 accounts and using them for 2010. The declaration doesn’t include any money made this season, nor does it factor in if the owners were prepared to submit funds for players.

            The only piece of evidence we have in the whole debate is the manager saying he had funds for transfers and an unsuccesful bid for Lee Barnard. Everything else is speculation which you can contort as much as you like to make you feel better about hating the current owners but it doesn’t make it fact.

  • Mikelufc

    Not meaning to be rude TSS jut saying it like I see it an talk of politics and billionaire investers at the moment gets my goat.

    You ar right there is no reason to believe there was a “war chest” in january, there is equally no reason to believe there was no funds at all.
    Larry himself is entirely responsible for bringing in Loanees.
    What was the point of Dickov?
    What was the point of Mcthingy?
    What so far has been the point of Watts?
    What was the reason for getting rid of Dougie and Prutts?
    What is the point of continuing with the useless Naylor?
    Why is Casper out of favour as soon as Higgs is available? Is his recent record as good as Caspers was?

    This list could go on and on but what the club needs is a reboot, just like a pc, go back to last known good configuration.

    We are in second place due entirely to what we achieved last year and my fear is we are going to lose it all becasue Larry has no idea of how to fix things.
    What did he do/say before Gills match that caused an entire team to play like they did?
    None of this is Bates fault and just to finish the rant, I dont see much investment going in anywhere.

    • timm

      Thats right Mikelufc. If we were 12 points clear now & we’d just booked the open top bus then none of this would be going on. It’s all about human nature. I listened to a psychologist on 5live the other day & he was saying that the worst thing for all these people who’ve been left stranded by the volcano is that they can’t blame anyone!We need someone to blame & based on our form since New Year i’ll look at the facts & i choose to blame Grayson & the players.

  • surely Larry’s not getting backhanders from the loanees agents. surely not

  • Mikelufc

    Cant imagine what he is getting Mark but I think he fancied himself as very shrewd in the loan market and had a thing to prove.

    Paul C says It is quite feasible that this article from Australia is a load of nonesense..But…and it is a big BUT ..what if it were true??? What if Lowy decided that he wanted nothing to do with our club because of our chairman?

    Even the usual Bates sycophants couldnt defend Bates and his ignorant, loud, obnoxious mouth if it were true..could they? Even they would have to admit that the man is just perhaps , not the best person for the job he currently holds…

    If Lowy had really wanted Leeds he would not have leaked it.
    Bates would have been asked “Whats the price?
    Bates would have said something stupid like 50 Million and Lowy would have said “Done, now get out of my chair you bearded old bastard.take the money and eff off”

  • Si

    Ken Bates, Sean Harvey and Mark Taylor

    I am going to be very careful here but having seen this debate roll on over the last few months, I feel its time I added my two penith worth if I may

    If you consider the following and look at the facts, there is, in all probability only one answer!!

    Ken Bates gained control of Leeds United via an offshore vehicle, a company called Forward Sports Fund

    Because Forward Sports Fund is a Caymen Islands registered company, the owners of this company do not have to be named and can hide, forever…….

    Most, if not all of you, are already aware of this i am sure – I know this because I own an offshore company in the Seychelles and I pay X amount of money every year to another company in the Seychelles and this company is the shareholder and the director of the my company – my name is not mentioned anywhere. I have an official document from this company telling me that I am the sole owner etc etc. You basically pay a fee to these companies and they act as directors and sharewholders

    Anybody can pay these companies as little as £1500 a year and set up an offshore company and remain completely anonymous – it’s that easy

    Teak Commercial Limited owns Elland Road after a deal done in 2005 with Jacob Adler

    Before Bates bought Leeds via his new company Leeds United FC Limited (not offshore), he had to satisfy the CVA in order to get away with only paying a penny in the pound to the creditors. CVA rules state that 75% of the creditors have to be in favour of him proceeding with the purchase and only a 75% vote in favour would stave off his biggest problem, the tax man who was owed 8m at the time.

    The three main creditors bar the Inland Revenue were Astor Investment Holdings Limited (12m owed to them). Krato Trust had 2.4m owed to them and The Forward Sports Fund (the company that KB used to gain control of LU) was owed 2.4m.

    All three of these companies (and Teak Commercial Investments, the owners of Elland Road) are registered in either the Caymen or Virgin Islands and the owners are legally allowed to remain completely anonymous, forever…….

    As long as these three companies (because they represented 75% value of the debt) combined, agreed to accept the penny in the pound that Bates was offering, it was deemed enough to get the 75% vote that KB needed to buy Leeds United.

    It was tight though and at the 11th hour it became apparent that Yorkshire Radio, a company established by Bates in 2006 was also owed a whopping £500,000. This creditor would of course all but secure the 75% vote. Quite how a small company such as Yorkshire Radio would allow one if its creditors a half million pound credit line is anyone’s guess, I suppose it depends on who owns and controls Yorkshire Radio…

    Prior to KB sealing the deal, the Hull City chairman made a bid for Leeds offering to pay 7p in the pound to the creditors and this would have been accepted by all other creditors but instead this was rejected by the 3 offshore companies, the 75% majority vote. Why would these 3 companies who combined were owed in excess of 15m, accept a 1p in the pound offer from KB (in other words 150k to setttle full and final)and reject a 7p in the pound offer (in other words 1 million to settle full and final) from someone else??????

    If (in 2005) I was in control of Leeds United and it had crippling debts and I wanted to buy Leeds United for half a crown and wipe all debts , I would set up lots of offshore companies with some trusted colleagues, pay the fee to remain anonymous, in all cases. Make sure that the companies that I and my colleagues owned (anonymously) were owed lots of money by the club (even if they weren’t). I would make sure that this amount that was owed was enough money to secure a 75% majority vote at a creditors meeting, just in case, god forbid, the company was forced in to Administration and I would then buy the company for £1 – it wouldn’t need to be any trickier than that

    In July 2007 (the 11th to be precise) Bates won owner ownership of Leeds United through Leeds United FC 2007 Limited and the entire shareholding was placed in the hands of “The Forward Sports Fund”

    So – you guys tell me – bearing in mind that you can remain completely anonymous and will never be named, bearing in mind that the three offshore compnaies all voted to reject a 7p in the pound offer in place of a 1p in the pound offer, ask yourself this question:

    Who owns Teak Investment (and Elland Road) and who owns The Forward Sports Fund (and Leeds United)

    Court Adjourned or Case dismissed?

    Case Dismissed in my book

    • Tony Curie’s Curler

      Brilliant! Thank god there’s someone who’s put in the correct words what I’ve wanted to say all this time.

      The wholes thing with Bates is not Leeds United or the fans or promotion… It’s about the land and making a profit out of the fans misery.

      He talks the talk when it’s needed to appease the gullable.

      So thank you Si.

      Bates saved us my backside. If he wanted to do that he’d have stood aside for Pearson. Administration and relegation was a ploy to gain as much offshore profit as possible. The latest books just don’t add up.

      SMELL THE ROSES EVERYONE!

    • TheReaper08

      There are also a number of future’s payments depending on promotion etc. that are triggered that would substantially boost return to the creditors. Failed to mention that. It is significant so is the fact that the original settlement was 10p in the pound and not 1p.

      Whilst well scripted unfortunately they above is littered with inaccuracies.

      Still if keeps the anti Bates brigade fuelled with rage then that’s the main thing.

  • Matt BB

    So how exactly do you go about buying Leeds from Ken Bates, he isnt a complete fool, he would want a return on his investment? its just not clear though how you would go about it, as someone with any money you would want certainty currently it’s like dipping your toe into the shark tank at ocean world.

    Any offer you made would be fraught with lack of clarity in short Who owns the ground, what exactly are you buying and from whom? Ken Bates will almost certainly have hidden interests in the whole set up, he made £10M (profit) from the abramovich purchase of Chelsea and has some serious money to invest, but of course hed have to pay some sort of tax on it and would be exposed to people like HMRC if he Ken Bates just invested in Leeds United.

    I think its fairly normal for these sorts of things to happen as you suggest, but I cannot get my head round precisely why – if indeed he is already a major creditor and indeed owner of the gorund that he would be so defnesive to any investor, what is going on? As long as that lack ofclarity exists we wont…

    Own Elland Road as a club
    Invest in the squad
    Redevelop the ground

    So basically he is sat in the way of all of his own plans?

    • timm

      Maybe it’s because no one has actually come forward who has the funds? Look at Reading, Everton, Newcastle, all 3 owners have said they’ll sell or would welcome investment but it’s just not forthcoming.I know the whole Newcastle thing’s been turbulent but the same can’t be said of Bill Kenwright & John Madjeski, they’re both genuine blokes who love their clubs & have been wanting someone with deeper pockets to take over for years now but it just hasn’t happened.

      • TheReaper08

        It can’t be something as simple as that, the global recession, or the fact that this could just be a simple bullshit newspaper story.

        It has to be Bates fault, doesn’t it ?

        • Matt BB

          of course the recession is an issue? but the very wealthy buy at the bottom of a recession and sell at the top.. How can you not blame bates in some part for this whole mess? If we had a chairman who gave a stuff about leeds we would have invested properly in the squad and ground, and not be in league one.. as it stands we cant even entertain investors never mind reject them with that gobsh*te at the helm.

          • TheReaper08

            So he definately wanted to invest and despite being this all powerful and wonderful business magnate he was deterred by Bates calling him a name. It’s a miracle this guy ever made a dollar.

          • Matt BB

            i think the real reason is one look at our accounts shows a real mess not worth investing in, but yes Bates is a very rude man – would you do business with him, or someone with as much to offer who was polite and forthright?..

          • TheReaper08

            If I was a business man, no scratch that I am a business man and if I want something I get it. Would I be put off by someone being rude or calling me names, no chance because I am not that pathetic. I would say nothing, do the deal and then put whoever the pompus pratt was right in there place.

          • Matt BB

            as abramovich did – but if you had a choice between palace and leeds? surely personality is key in any business deal? and you wouldnt want to be ripped off?

          • timm

            It’s about the product, not the owner. If i want to buy a house & i finally find one that’s perfect after 6 months of searching, im not going to walk away just because the seller’s a bit of a knob! Same with a car, im looking to fall in love with the car not the salesman. A serious buyer would just laugh at Bates. & regarding the very wealthy buying at the bottom of a recession, that only applies if the very wealthy haven’t been affected by it themselves.

          • TheReaper08

            timm is right it’s about the end product. If however you are looking for a platform for a business as well as a passion I would buy Leeds and I genuinely wouldn’t be put off by Bates bravado or rudeness.

            Let’s be honest do you really think that the phone goes and it’s ‘ Hi Ken it’s Frank, how much do you want for your club ?’ The transaction would be completed and I bet the pair would never even speak to each other.

  • Matt BB

    just read my own mail back – the answer is that he makes enough money out of leeds as a creditor to make it worthwhile to keep the current set up.. blatant isnt it and pretty smart, he’d only sell up if he was offered the value of the club including elland road, full turnover and genuine profits..

  • Si

    thats it dude!!!!!

  • Si

    and to answer your question about buying Leeds from Ken Bates, you dont buy Leeeds from Ken Bates, any buyer would purchase the 4 offshore compnaies menaing that Ken sells the 4 Offshore companies, all of which hold the Leeds United Asset (name, ground the lot) and pays no tax whatsoever

  • Si

    It would be nice if the Accounts showed who the current list of creditors are. I know it lists creditors as a number, but it doesnt show them by name. You can bet your life that most of the Leeds United outgoings, bar the players of course, are the Off Shore compnaies i.e. rent for ER. Ken says he doesnt take anything from Leeds United, and he is not lying he doesn’t, he takes from Forward Sport Funds and they take from Leeds United …. sorry for the continuous posts, I am working myself up here!!!!

    • timm

      Si, think about it like this…..At least he’ll be dead soon!

    • West Stand Rebel

      And brilliantly too Si. Have some issues with some of your quoted figures and don’t forget FSF is now registered in Nevis not the Cayman Islands (so Baker Tilley say or think.) These devices of using offshore companies to rob ordinary creditors and the taxman should be outlawed. However if they are legal I still believe the footballing authorities should disbar the directors of football clubs going into administration in this way.

    • Craig

      I’m not saying I’m fully won over by your theory Si but, if there are shreds of truth in it, this would certainly explain Ken’s infamous court-room slip-up over who actually owns the club.

      It is said that even the best liars tell the truth whenever they can because each lie we tell adds to the ‘internal pressure’ brought about by the internal dissonance known to us. Is it possible that Ken told the truth by mistake and then had to retract it as soon as he realised the lie was the golden thread that held the pack of lies together?

  • Colin

    Si,

    I’m not going to argue the case with you but I’m pretty sure that Adam Pearson has never bid for Leeds United and that he was not one of the bidders during the administration/CVA/75% debacle.

    He’s shown his interest, but he’s never put a bid in.

    And on the penny in the pound – you’re selecting your facts here. Bates’ original offer was 1p in the pound. That was rejected. Bates came back with a second offer. No-on really knows exactly how much it’s worth but the following comes from the infamous David Conn article in the Guardian:

    “Forward Sports Fund, which originally bought the club in 2005, also bought it from the administrators, ultimately paying 17p in the pound to those owed the millions”

    All I’d say is if you’re interested in the facts, do a search on the guardian or YEP or times website or any other trustworthy site because Si is talking a load of old bollocks, picking and choosing his facts. And for all you know I might be talking bollocks too.

  • Mikelufc

    Not sure about the Times being trustworthy Colin…

    • Craig

      But surely you trust every word written by hacks employed by Rupert Murdoch?

  • Mikelufc

    I trust every word to be bullshit or a downright lie.

  • Si

    Morning Chaps, Adam Pearson made a bid for Leeds United just before KB took over, and i believe his bid was an offer to pay 7p in the pound

    My Source? Phil Hay

    Can i just say that i never quoted anything as fact so load of old bollockas or not, its a theory and if i wanted to do what Ken has just done, my theory on how he did it is how i would do it!

    Whether FSF is registered in Nevis or Caymen is not the issue, they are both Offshore Tax havens

    • timm

      Only 7p in the pound! Bloody shyster! That makes Uncle Kens 10p seem positively generous! Phew, looks like we had a lucky escape with that bloke not coming in then?!

    • Colin

      You maybe right but when did he put the offer in?

      He can’t have put the offer into Krasner in 2005 because KB was the only offer?

      If the offer went in at time of admin 2007 when KPMG managed it, then surely no-one would have accepted 7p in the pound.

      I know there were rumours of Pearson but if he did bid why didn’t he go public like Duncan Revie, Redbus, Simon Morris?? That’s what made me think that there wasn’t a Pearson bid.

  • Si

    Can i just ask a question. Is there anyone on here that does not believe that Bates and Harvey and the Lawyer own these offshore compnaies. I would risk my mortgage on it, if i could prove it !!

  • Mikelufc

    Can i just ask a question. Is there anyone on here that does not believe that Bates and Harvey and the Lawyer own these offshore compnaies. I would risk my mortgage on it, if i could prove it !!

    Does he have any other friends/acquaintances”?
    I dont think so and they are in it for the same reason as Bates.

    However, all this is bollox, the only thing that matters at the moment is PROMOTION, and everybody should be giving 100% mental effort in that direction, we have to will the buggers to win in spite of Larry.

    • timm

      Well said Mikelufc. We need to put all our efforts into being positive for the next 2 & a half weeks & let’s just concentrate on getting us promoted. There’s a whole summer then for all the protesters & whoever else to sort out their strategies.

  • Si

    cant argue with that – come on you mighty whites lets finsih the game!!!

  • TheReaper08

    Back to the question of this new protest demanding answers from our illusive chairmen, I think this is genius and follows on from the other succesful protests

    Two for Sue
    Five for Clive

    It will surely work, Ken just has to cave in to our demands now !

    • timm

      What gets me Reaper is the irony. A section of our supporters want FSF out because we don’t know who they are. Across the pennines our friends at old trafford want to replace the extremely well known owners with the Red Knights, the Red Knights will be a group of businessmen from all over the world who are each going to throw in a minimum of £10 million. Many of these businessmen will remain anonymous but the point of contact at the club will be Keith Harris. Keith Harris will be a figurehead chairman with a tiny stake in the club. Remind you of anyone?

      • TSS

        You really need to read Si’s post above. I think that tells us who the owner actual is, as we all suspected. With that in mind, we now know we’re run by an absolute idiot who is clearly more interested in building hotels than he is taking Leeds United forward.

        • TheReaper08

          Si’s post above is about as accurate as me saying I saw aliens in my back garden last night.

          I mean I was in my garden last night so it must be true, musn’t it ?

          • TSS

            How can you prove him wrong Reaper? It does make sense, and since the owners go to great lengths to hide away from us, there’s no way for anyone to prove otherwise.

            Even you can’t deny that Ken Bates’ ‘I make no money from Leeds United’ claims are suspicious. There’s absolutely no way whatsoever that Kenneth does it out of the goodness of his heart. When it all comes out, I’m pretty sure we’ll discover Ken Bates has owned us all along. I’d be surprised if he didn’t own TA and ER too.

        • TheReaper08

          He may well own us but when you can’t be bothered to reserach your facts on the amount paid to creditors (a fairly fundamental part of the argument)you lose all credibility.

          It is mere specualtion and I am afraid until the rules are changed (something I advocate whole heartedly instead of witch hunts and pointless 10 for Ken websites)that is all we can go on.

      • TheReaper08

        The irony isn’t lost on me timm I can assure you. I have taken flak on here for being a Bates fan which is far from the truth. It all stems from my acknowledging that Bates has done some good things and my unwillingness to jump into bed with the first person that reportedly (with no substance) flutters his/her eyelids at my club.

        Oh that and my love of trying to deal in fact which also seems to get me into trouble.

        Look at the shambles at Liverpool, everyone knew who they were, they came promising investment and a new stadium. Now they are sat back in the good ol US of A laughing about how little the club cost, how little investment they have put in and how much money they are going to make selling it.

        I don’t like to swear and everyone I have ever debated with on here has been tops but I have read some right bollocks lately.

        • TSS

          Ahh, so what you’re saying is that if Liverpool and Manchester United’s owners were anonymous and destroying the club whilst hiding in a cave, then that would be OK. Gotcha.

          • TheReaper08

            No I am not what I am saying is be careful of what you wish for.

            Oh that and the fact that like it or not the whole worlds problems were not caused by Ken Bates.

            Destroying TSS, really ? A touch melodramatic wouldn’t you say.

          • timm

            We’re 2nd in the league, we beat Man Utd, we have NO DEBT. In my book that puts us in pretty good shape? Especially in the current climate. A week or 2 ago TSS, you said you’d swap with Portsmouth, well it’s official, they’ve ‘done a Leeds’! Do you still stand by what you said?

          • TSS

            I’d still say yes Timm. At the end of the day, Portsmouth are still likely to be playing in a higher division than us next season and as things stand, I reckon they’ll be back in the Prem before we are too.

          • TheReaper08

            £120 million in debt, no training ground or academy, no real players to speak of and no ground and you would swap ? TSS you don’t go by the daytime name of Publicity Pete or Riddler Ridsdale do you ?

          • TSS

            - Reaper – Yeah, but no Bates. That’s the main selling point for me.

          • timm

            I can’t believe you can honestly say that you’d still swap! They’re financially ruined! They have no assets they’re still £120 million in debt! They’ve got it all to come whereas we’ve come out the other side of it now.

          • TSS

            I’m actually winding you up a bit Timm. As attractive as no Bates is, it’s too far to drive down there every Saturday.

        • macadamia_man

          All good most of the time, Reaper. One small quibble: Frank Lowy is a damn sight richer and a damn sight more of a football man than Ken Bates or most of the current crop of club owners from the Prem on down. He is also a damn sight more of a hard-balled business man than you lot give him credit for so far, and I can see him running the rule over a dozen clubs a year just to keep his hand in, and to make sure there isn’t a bargain going. Now if I wanted to stir the pot I’d say that Ken’s objections and the Palace rumour a neat distraction from a real interest wouldn’t you? LUFC remains one of the highest profile and best supported UK clubs in Australia despite the last few years and the well-established tendency of some Australian sports fans to follow success not roots. A sale makes a lot of sense, and no sense at all, the keys being the price, the willingness to deal and the real ownership of the assets. The brand is a goer still.

      • Colin

        Keith Harris should not be allowed near any club. He made his money by sticking his hand up Orville’s arse.

        Orville was the talent. Keith Harris was a just a puppet.

        • timm

          I totally agree Colin! He should sod off & buy (Rod) Hull City!!!Sorry, that was terrible! It is a coincidence though that Keith Harris now wants to be a puppet!

  • Mikelufc

    TSS! you seem to have a thing about caves

    • timm

      I’ve noticed that too!

    • TSS

      Ahh, well that would because TSS is written from one. With growing concern about Ken Bates’ lawyers hunting me down, I had no other option.

      • TheReaper08

        Because I enjoy the site so much I promise if Ken does track you down I will send a Postal Order towards your court costs, just don’t tell him I sent it.

        • TSS

          Ahh, much appreciated Reaper. All donations will be gratefully received in due course.

  • TheReaper08

    Recent press release on the Delph injury.

    Leeds chairman Ken Bates insists the implications of Fabian Delph’s injury on the money owed to Leeds in transfer fees is “of secondary importance”.

    Delph progressed through the Thorp Arch academy into the first team as a teenager at Leeds before being sold to Aston Villa last summer for a fee that could rise up to a reported £8million in add-ons.

    The 18-year-old has been ruled out for eight months after rupturing his cruciate knee ligament in training and further money due to Leeds – and Bradford who Delph left aged 12 – based on his first-team appearances at Villa has now been put on hold.

    But Bates said: “Nobody wants to see a player seriously injured and we wish him luck.

    “We have received a proportion of the guaranteed element of the fee with the rest being due in the future, an eighth goes to Bradford City, but that really is of secondary importance.

    “This is when you find your character and he will pick himself up and dust himself down.”

    Surely this article can’t be correct, can it……?

    • TSS

      As much as I detest the bloke, even I’d doubt Bates is so evil that he’d be concerned about the money over the kids health. I wish Fab all the best in his recovery.

      • TheReaper08

        The point being a while back I said we were being paid in instalments for Delph when the discussion of ‘where has all the money gone’ came up yet again. Despite knowing this to be fact I was told no, we had been paid all the cash.

        Now I am told that as a Leeds fan Bates would sell me given half the chance and that he whittles away all of our clubs money into his Monaco building society account. This shows a remakable amount of compassion for the devil.

        • TSS

          I said instalments were likely at the time too. You may be confusing my argument with the TA one. If we have a guaranteed (est.) £6m cash heading our way over the next few years, EVERY bank would loan us the cash to buy TA. More to the point, a friend of mine is a manager of a bank in Leeds, and he said that the loan would be secured easily because the bank would be able to repossess TA (and the land alone is worth more than the loan) if we failed to pay. That’s regardless of Leeds’ history and Bates’ for that matter.

          • TheReaper08

            On the property thing we agree, even without knowing any future income a ‘mortgage’ could have been secured to re-purchase TA. On that subject and the ER one I am firmly of the belief that both are back in the hands of Ken and his cronies anyway.

            My point is if Ken hadn’t of made that statement about Delph how many people would have been on here saying how gutted he must be that he might not get to syphon off that money as well. Credit were it is due he appears to have the lad’s future and best interests at heart.

          • macadamia_man

            “Guaranteed”? There’s no such thing with footballers or cruciates and that’s why sales are done in installments. I hope to god my building society doesn’t think a footballer is anything other than a gamble with fitness, attitude and venereal disease . . .

  • Craig

    Its on the LUFC website.

  • Colin

    There’s a lot of stick coming the Reaper’s way just for speaking common sense. And I’m fully behind the stance of the Reaper.

    I was going to write a post on some of the financial things we do know rather than those that we don’t, but then realised that it was slightly favourable to the current owners. Therefore, there was no point posting it as I’d just get a load of stick coming my way.

    TSS – by posting articles on Bates this, Lowy that you’re just going to get conflict on this site. If you’re getting money for words posted then fair enough, but it’s got to the point now where I can’t be bothered entertaining this anymore. Posting on this site used to be an enjoyable discussion, now it’s just becoming infuriating.

    Is this site setup for decent debate on Leeds or is it just another Love Leeds Hate Bates version 2? Lowy getting linked with Crystal Palace is a load of old tosh – it’s a non story, complete bullshit and it just causes everyone to rip into each other.

    I couldn’t care less about Bates, Lowy, Crystal Palace, Leeds United’s accounts, Arab Billionaires. I just want to discuss LUFC and the football it plays. It used to be all Beckford is shit and Becchio is great and since Becks got dropped, no one can blame him anymore so all the articles are based on beating up Bates. You should rename this site the kicking shed for Mr. Beckford and Mr. Bates.

    We don’t discuss football anymore, it’s either Becks or Bates. I expect Beckford to start this weekend so I’ll look forward to all the stick coming Beckford’s way for not scoring enough goals if our useless defence let more goals in. At least then it would make a change from beating up Bates.

    • TheReaper08

      To be fair Colin I think TSS does a good job of promoting debate and letting us get on with it. Like a good talk show host you go with what you know will create the most debate/reaction and mostly that is things people can moan about.

      I also do my bit for stoking the fires of the Bates topics largely because I enjoy it. The only thing that tends to get me a little hot and bothered is some of the rather blinkered opinions but I get over it.

      TSS has in the past also been one of the biggest defenders of the Beckford debacle, I should know as these days it’s one of the few things we agree on !

      Continue to post Colin because as far as I am concerned you have as valid an opinion as anyone else, if you base your opinon in fact then even better.

      Thanks for the defence though, much appreciated.

      • timm

        The problem we have Reaper is that if you say something that’s fact but not anti-Bates, then we get shot down with arguments that aren’t fact. ie,’There’s no way Grayson had money to spend in January’. The FACT is that SG says he did. But when we say that we’re sniped at for being pro Bates. I’d love a billionaire to come in with genuine intentions & take us forward but the FACT is it hasn’t happened. Another favourite is ‘we all know Bates owns FSF’ no we don’t. I could say that Alex Ferguson & Alan Smith own FSF, after all the 2 of them are in a group which own & charge rent on a good number of commercial properties. Of course this is highly unlikely, but you can’t prove they don’t. As long as people just make assumptions based on their contempt for Bates, this debate is a pointless waste of time. I’ve got a good idea for 10 for Ken though, instead of printing some T-Shirts they should sell blinkers! Don’t order too many though because if we do go up & we splash a good few million quid i have a feeling 10 for Ken might just lose a bit of momentum? By the way Reaper, i can’t believe you saw those aliens too?! The buggers kept me up all night!

        • TSS

          But the problem we have Timm, is that when we quote facts, you makes excuse for him. (TA, administration, secretive ownership, price-hikes, free-transfers and loan signings… etc… etc…) I honestly suspect you work for him sometimes. Secret love-child perhaps? (I’m joking obviously!)

          • TSS

            My point is, that everyone is quoting their own facts. It’s just easy to spin them to your own advantage. That said, the secrecy remains my biggest concern as it suggests something is being hidden.

          • timm

            I don’t ‘make excuses’ for him TSS, he doesn’t need me to do that! Colin, Reaper & myself just bring facts into the debate in the interests of balance because otherwise this site (which in my opinion is the best by a mile) would be in danger of becoming a haven for Bates haters to spout a lot of rubbish based purely on their hatred of him. I too dislike Bates & his silly ramblings, but he’ll be gone soon & we’ll still be here.We’re going up TSS & we’re in good shape for a takeover.HAVE FAITH!!

          • TSS

            Faith is all I have left mate. MOT!

        • TheReaper08

          Ten for Ken is pointless timm and we both know it. It is about as useful as LUST sending a letter asking for a few answers please. The problem as I keep repeatedly going on about is the rules of the football league. Ask Ken an answer and we don’t get one. Ask the FL to chaneg the rules so the ultimate owners of a club are disclosed and we have to get and answer.

          It’s all a nonesense really because to be perfectly honest Ken isn’t breaking any rules so he isn’t doing anything wrong.

          As for facts, well people will ultimately believe what they want to believe regardless of the truth. A bit like you and me and those pesky aliens.

          Just keep to the facts wherever possible timm and you will do for me pal. We will struggle on together with Colin, if we ever see him again.

    • TSS

      The stories are relative to Leeds Colin, and as you’ll see, most of the articles don’t revolve around Bates at all. It just happens that the ones most heavily commented on revolve around Bates, because that’s one of the fans major concerns.

      I refuse to turn into another version of Teamtalk, just writing that someone has an injury and may be out for a couple of weeks because I’d be bored by the tedium of it. Most of the stuff I write is actually taken from the discussions I have with the lads who I go to games with. These are the kinda debates we have on 460 mile round trips to Gillingham.

      As for Reaper, I don’t think he’s taking any stick at all, and I doubt he does either. We tend to disagree on some things, but I don’t think either of us takes it personally. That’s life, people do have differing opinions.

      Finally, TSS doesn’t make money at all. The ads at the top fail to cover the site costs. It’s done solely as a hobby.

      • TheReaper08

        I think you are absolutely right to do what you do and long live TSS. I am not a contributor to any other fan site, I used to do a little bit of 606 but not anymore. Personaly I think you should be applauded for running what you do with the site.

        I don’t think I am taking any stick at all, I think we are all provoking healthy debate and that’s fine by me. If you read my posts you will note I rarely offer my personal feelings on Bates I merely offer statements and ask questions.

        It leads people to believe I am pro Bates when I am actually pro facts.

    • macadamia_man

      Spot on, Colin. Really loved that first Beckford goal against the Dons didn’t you? I’d have stuck it in row FF even if I’d been on a stepladder . . . And it looked like the boss’s latest loanees were really getting the hang of the game down here too. MOT

  • TheReaper08

    On a lighter note has anyone seen all the articles about us already tapping up Gary Hooper for next season. A lot will obviously depend on the division we are in but all things being well I hope we can do a deal for this lad as I really rate him.

    Let me nail my colours firmly to the mast right now, I know we have to pay some additional money to creditors if we get promoted but I am expecting some serious squad investment in the summer. Now I am just hoping that I can get to find out.

    • TSS

      Hooper? Where have I heard that player suggested as a target before…? Late December/early January time… That nice bloke that writes a blog… you know the one…. What’s his name…

      • TheReaper08

        Yeah yeah. I know and I agree. But if you look back through the history books of the site you will see I am right there with you. Let’s hope it ALL happens.

      • timm

        He said he wasn’t happy to drop down though. I like Charlie Adam at Blackpool & i bet he’s on crap money? I suppose if we go up it could all change with Hooper but there’ll be a few good strikers willing to come to us if we go up. I reckon Somma could play a big part next season too? Let’s start a new thread TSS, ‘Who should we try & sign if we go up?’ It’ll be interesting to get to see the different levels of expectation & it’ll be good to get talking about footy again!

        • TSS

          Hooper actually said he wasn’t happy to drop down but there’s some clubs that are so big, it’d be hard to refuse (at the time Leeds were linked). It was the most obvious come and get me plea you could wish to hear, but we did nothing.

  • Mikelufc

    I think Reaper can hold his corner Colin and in defence of TSS there’s not
    of lufc to chat about at the moment, the gills debacle stopped that.
    I think we are all jumpy waiting for a result against the MK plastics.
    It will come.

  • Si

    interesting posts above re Bates and my factual fuck ups for want of a better word – you are toltaling missing the point, whether he paid a pound or whether he paid a penny or whether he paid £13 to the creditors is irrelevent. If you want me to go away and come back with factual information on what the monies involved were I will do so.

    What doesnt change and what will never change is that 3 to 4 offshore companies (all owned by messers bates and co in my opinion) raised a 16m worth of dodgy invoices and billed them to Leeds United. Rejected offers of 7p in the pound (including a bid from Adam Pearson) against an offer from ken of 1p in the pound. FACT!! FACT FACT

    I dont know what the actual amount that the creditors received in the end, I would imagine it was around the 10p mark which means Ken and his cronies received 10% of this even when they werent even owed it. I use the phrase Ken bought it for £1 loosely as its not the point.

    I dont wish to be dosrespectful to anybody on here, after all we are all want the same thing, but for fuck sake wake up

    This is exactly how Bates did it – i would love the opprotunity to prove it, i reall would. Bates Harvey and the other fella are the owners of Leeds United, i would love to right the word FACT here but i cant

  • timm

    ‘Dodgy invoices’, ‘in my opinion’. You can’t really base an argument on that though can you. You can even find websites which will tell you that Pearson never actually made a bid. If he did bid why didn’t he bid more? Was he trying to get us on the cheap? Pearson hasn’t got a great track record on investment either. I think Reaper hit the nail on the head when he mentioned the Football League rules? If the FL made a small amendment to their rules, ie, All club owners must make themselves known? Then the ‘mystery’ would be solved. Maybe the disgruntled fans would be better off lobbying the FL for a ‘minor’ rule change rather than asking Bates questions which he’s under absolutely no obligation to answer? There’s certainly no love lost between the FL & Bates so maybe a change in strategy is what’s needed to get your answers?

    • timm

      Pearson’s just come out & had an almighty go at the previous administration (ie, Paul Duffen) for spending too much money on players! He says it shouldn’t be about financial muscle but more about team spirit & blah blah blah..! The guy makes Bates look like a philanthropist! I wonder if he’d be moaning if they were in the top 10?

  • lar

    the sad story is if some one does buy the club…who owes thorp arch and elland road..thats an easy one.bates has leeds at every road block and until the facts are known…no one will come near leeds.ridsdale to bates
    to….talk about bad luck and frying pans and fires.think it all change if promoted and the truth will come out.

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