Ken Bates did his best to ensure anyone interested in investing in Leeds United were scared off with an angry response to the speculation on Yorkshire Radio.

In the interview, Kenneth also took another swipe at a former Leeds United chairman, Gerald Krasner. Bates has already gotten himself into trouble before for disguising his own failings beneath a campaign of hatred directed at previous chairmen to whom he blamed everything on. His last smear campaign culminated in Mervyn Levi’s contact details being printed in the matchday programme, in an obvious attempt to have Leeds United fans harrass the man and his family.

A judge dealing with that case famously said Bates’ explanation of the events was ‘riddled with inaccuracies’ and ordered Bates to pay a fine and court costs totalling £1.5m. David Conn of the Guardian quickly picked up on the whole story and showed the full extent of our chairmans failings to a national audience. Conn, who most Leeds fans will remember for trying to uncover our illusive owners was subsequently banned from Elland Road for his work.

With a potential takeover bid from Frank Lowy hitting the headlines, Leeds United fans have been eagerly anticipating any news, but it seems Ken Bates was as puzzled by the rumours as everyone else. Unlike everyone else however, Ken Bates seemed surprisingly annoyed by the suggestions that Leeds United’s ownership was being looked into and came out on the attack;

“I had never heard of [Lowy], I know of this story now because someone sent me a printout of an Australian newspaper the report was in but it is the usual rubbish – a source said, somebody claimed, and nobody was available for comment.

“This Lowy, I think he runs Westfield, the property company. Aren’t they the one that has completely buggered up the town centre of Bradford? Hardly the best reference for someone who wants to buy a football club 12,000 miles from home. Interestingly he [reportedly] has a Leeds-based agent examining Leeds United – let’s hope it’s not Gerald Krasner.

“It is no secret we would welcome further investment. But we are quite blunt – name and money. The moment you say that they all disappear.”

Although we have no idea of whether Lowy is actually interested or not, let’s assume for a moment he is. I fail to see why Bates would react in such a manner unless he’s concerned about what Lowy’s people may unveil. Frank Lowy is an extremely wealthy man with infinite resources, so if there’s something to find, you can guarantee he’ll find it.

Bates comments about Lowy not contacting him first are at best, laughable. Bates and FSF would be the last people any potential buyer would contact, as anyone serious about buying a football club would have their own independent research done first. As an example, imagine you’ve seen a car your interested in down the road with £13,000 on the window. You wouldn’t just turn up with that kind of money. You’d probably have a vehicle check done on it’s registration first and then check the list price to see how much it’s true value is. If all is well, that’s when you contact the owner.

The reason why we use these £5 text message services to have vehicles checked out beforehand, is because we want to make sure the seller isn’t hiding anything before we commit to such an investment. The same is true of anyone interested in a football club. You have people investigate it first so there are no shocks down the line. It’s standard practice because everybody lies, and Bates knows this all too well, so why he’s reacted with such an attitude is baffling me?

Whether Lowy’s interested or not, Bates’ comments aren’t doing us any favours at all. With the Krasner fiasco still fresh in everyones memory and Bates’ mouth running off again, not many people are going to want to get involved with him for the damage it could potentially do to their reputations.

  • James

    As an Australian based Leeds fan (of which there are many) I have watched the last few days of news articles surrounding Frank Lowy’s interest in the club with great interest.

    I find the above comments from Kenneth bizarre, I could not say enough positive things about Frank Lowy. From a business perspective he co-founded a company that now has a market cap of $29 billion and can lay claim to having achieved more in business than Kenneth Bates ever will. He is also singly handly responsible for the start up of the local A-league (national soccer league in Australia).

    The decision however that sticks in my mind and most football enthusiasts down here is his persistence and nerve in somehow being able to appoint Guus Hiddink coach of Australia at the last World Cup. To imagine a coach of this stature ever managing Australia was impossible to believe before Frank Lowy made it happen.

    I have never met Frank Lowy and have only seen what effect he has had on the world game in our nation. He appears to be an extremely passionate, very well connected (Sepp Blatter is a close friend) and most importantly wealthy football fan who has poured millions of dollars into Australian football in the last 10 years. All this from a bloke who struggled to speak English when he moved to Australia.

    For all those folk in Yorkshire who dont know alot about him my advice would be simple.

    Move over Bates and let the man start INVESTING in our club.

    • TheReaper08

      Quality, Sepp Blatter is a close friend. That single handedly is a good enough reason to vote for Ken !

      • TSS

        Rather have Sepp on my side than against me. Something might actually go in our favour for once.

        • TheReaper08

          Brilliant, one of the biggest crooks in world football. Somebody that has totally filled his own boots for many many years. Will vote in any direction the next suitcase of cash is coming from.

          Next you will be advocating Osama joins up cos it’s better to have him with us than against us.

          • TSS

            Osama is probably a tiny bit too right-wing for my liking, but his family are welcome to invest.

          • timm

            I wouldn’t want Blatter anywhere near this club, the guy is totally bent, he knows the price of everything & the value of nothing! As for the Bin Ladens, they’re all Arsenal fans!

          • James

            I would agree Blatter is somewhat of a crook and has a chequered past but it certainly doesnt hurt having a guy like that in your corner.

    • Vanita

      I totally agree with this first post from James.

      As an aussie leeds fan myself, I see very closely how much good lowy has done for football in our country.

      Leeds + Lowy would be a dream come true!

  • les irwin

    after millwall game i vented my spleen on leeds united website 2 days later ken bates rang .i have to say first fair play to him he rang .however there was more swear words per seconds on the phone than an average man uses in a day and 1 or 2 other subjects wich wiil remain between us ,needless to say they would upset 1 or 2 people in this world of ours .now dont get me wrong i dont care about bates either way stay or go but when he saying he needs to have investment and clearly we do he needs to keep his mouth shut about potential investors and as he has stated he doesnt own any shares in lufc so its not his to sell so they will not contact him will they .one of the things bates told me was and also on the recent accounts published he doesnt take any money out of lufc ,i would like to know who is picking up these legal bills and also how much damage is he doing to the leeds united name .lastly there are 4 companies registered at elland road with companies house its in the public domain to see 1 of them is behind with its acounts .lets have a WHITE KNIGHTS CAMPAIGN TO GET SOMEONE IN TO BUY THE CLUB WITH FANS ALLOWED TO INVEST

    • timm

      White Knights! Let’s wear some different coloured scarves as well while we’re at it. Complain all you want but don’t pinch your ideas from them scum bastards.

      • les

        its not pinching ideas but i listen to lots of people probably like yourself timm that pitch up on websites like the scratching shed and spout about bates out etc but apart from the posts on here do nothing .if the reports in the media are to be believed they are in a strong position to make a bid this week .love or ;loath them and for the record i only hate them when we are playing them because quite frankly there is no point doing any other the SCUM fans as you call them have got off their ass and done something and for the record again if they do take over at that unmentionable club they will to take over there raised nearly 1 billion pounds yes 1 BIILION SO COME UP with a better model than that for the fans taking over it beats selling home made cakes on leeds market with yellow ,white and blue icing .as i said in my previous post i spoke to bates and he told me in no uncertain terms HE AINT GOING KNOWHWERE .SO PUT UP WITH HIM OR DO SOMETHING OR SHIP OUT

        • timm

          If you read my posts on here you’ll see that im actually happy with things just as they are & i don’t ‘spout’ about Bates & then do nothing. I just want to get behind our team & hope we get promoted. Then when it comes to summer i’ll expect to see a level of investment in players which is acceptable for a CCC club. Regarding Man Utd, they need to raise £500 million as the other £500 million will be provided by financial institutions who have promised to match their investment. Keith Harris has told the fans that the only way they can hurt the Glazers is by not going, but this has fallen on deaf ears. So actually the fans have done nothing to help the cause other than buy a Norwich scarf.You should also remember that Man Utd are a huge brand & therefore attract rich glory hunters worldwide. Theyr’e also not in a ‘strong position to make a bid this week’ as Harris has clearly stated that they wouldn’t move before the end of the season because they would never do anything to upset the team.Regarding only hating them when we play them, im sorry mate but i despise the bastards. Im Leeds, theyre scum, & i’d never have it any other way.

        • Pete

          I think I’ve got a few million down the back of my sofa…seriously though, that scummy lot have a lot of fans around the world, a massive stadium with extortionate prices (and a squad with long names for the replica shirts) and a team full of world-known players who are idolised and flog shirts by the tonne. Add to that the virtual guarantee of prize money from good champions league runs and league placings, and anyone can see the possibility of a return on the investment. Leeds, on the other hand, are in the third division, don’t have the global fanbase or big-name shirtshifters and don’t even own their ground. Plus our biggest sellable asset is leaving on a free transfer…we’re hardly ripe for a takeover. Our only option is to get consecutive weeks of fans winning the euromillions, or a man with so much money that he wouldn’t notice 50 million going missing.

          Pretty unlikely to happen, unless I can convince a few investment bankers to go for it. Shame the only ones I know work for RBS.

  • Michael

    I think that the court case you refer to was brought by Levi not Krasner. Research?

    • TSS

      Yeah, right you are will correct. Ignoring my tendancy to make these errors, in my defence, there’s been an awful lot of court cases. Easy to confuse them over time.

      • Craig

        There have indeed. The typo that made me smile was ‘mythed’ for ‘miffed’.

        • TSS

          Well, if you want to be pedantic…

          • Craig

            Apologies but you brought up the subject of ‘errors’ and it reminded me. I quite like ‘mythed’. It has a certain charm.

  • Hmmm very interesting….fail to understand Papa Smurfs rather blunt reaction to Mr Lowys interest. For me I’d be a little more receptive to the idea if I was him.

    Suspect 99.9999999% of Leeds fans would agree too.

    • Craig

      Ken Bates is Mr Blunt Reaction. He does no other type. End of.

  • Choppers

    Imagine your an investor and you come to Elland Road, when a white haired gremlin opens the door and says “name and money”, thinking he is being funny and blunt, I can imagine the investor thinking, I will take my money elsewhere.

    We all know an investor likes to have his balls tickled etc so that he feels special and that his money is going to be doing something. If your putting your money in his hands you must have to trust the guy and as an investor I dont think you will

    • TheReaper08

      If your an investor you do want your ‘balls tickled’ as you put it. If your after taking over you don’t give a monkeys fart what the incumbent thinks, says or does.

      • TSS

        Agreed, but the thought of having a Ken Bates smear campaign launched against you if you do invest/takeover must be off-putting.

        • TheReaper08

          Really, you think someone as cold heartedly ruthless in business such as this guy (and that’s not a slur most succesful business men are very clinical) would be deterred by a few poorly worded insults from a relative business minor such as Bates ?

          • TSS

            No idea, but the reaction from Bates is bizarre, don’t you think?

            The only way I can read it is that ‘It’s invest on our terms, with us showing you the bits that look good, or go away.’

            What continues to concern me is the lengths this ownership has gone to, to hide things. You don’t hide things unless there’s something to be hidden, and I can only conclude that Bates is worried an independent body could find too many skeletons?

          • Craig

            Bates’ style (if it is correct to call it that) is to draw attention to himself even when he’s trying not to do so. This is the business equivalent of a broad smile on your face whilst playing poker. If he is intent on making a bid I’m sure Lowy got just the response he was expecting and is planning the next move that will entice Bates still further out of his cave.

          • timm

            Lowy won’t give a toss about Bates rants. It’s a bit like being a manager & dealing with Fergies attempts at mind games. You either show your inexperience & go off on one like Keegan or you react like Ancelotti the other day when Fergie said Chelsea v Bolton was an easy game. Ancelotti just smiled & said ‘i hope Alex is right’!

      • Colin

        Does Ken tickle balls with his fingers or his beard??

        • timm

          Depends how much you pay him!

    • White haired Gremlin!! Quality.

  • Irving08

    RE: LOWY. I dont know anything about the man, but one Aussie (Murdoch) has had a disastrous effect on English football. Is there any reason to suppose that Lowy would be any different ? In any case, I don’t want to see Leeds turned into a nursery for the Australian national team, which can be the only reason Lowy and his associates want in. If we have toi have an autocrat running our club, I’d prefer a home grown one to an antipodean import. Sorry, but Kenneth gets my vote.

    • Craig

      I’m really not sure I follow your huge leaps in logic. Firstly it is laughable to suggest that all Aussies are the same and, even if it could be argued that they were, Lowy isn’t an Aussie by birth anyway.

  • Lee

    Well done Papa Smurf, another triumph in winning friends or investment. I am sick to the stomach with the way this man is able to drag my proud club and it’s fans into the gutter with his antics, time to cut the cancer out of Leeds Utd, anyone want to help the bearded clam clear his desk? Form an orderly line behind me…. MOT

    • Craig

      I really doubt that Bates has a desk to clear out or, if he has, there’d only be stationary and paperclips. That’s the saddest part – we have a chairman who must be a stranger to most of his employees.

      Or maybe they prefer it that way?

      • Michael

        I’m not sure that Lowy would spend more time over here than Bates does. Monaco is a skip and a hop compared to Sydney and Lowy would want to keep up his work with the Aussie FA and Westfields. Speaking of which does the idea of a property developer taking over the club not worry anyone else? Elland Road is a big site just off both the M1 and M62 and £15m to buy back land worth £49m is a snip to such a firm. Just a cautionary thought

    • timm

      Do you think a serious buyer would walk away just because Ken was a bit blunt? If you think about it there’s not actually anything wrong with wanting to know who someone is & how much they want to invest? But that only applies to ‘investors’, we’re talking about a full blown takeover here. Lowy would have a team of bigshots on it & you might never even see him at ER.

  • Big B

    1. The reports said Lowy’s people carried out due diligence on LUFC in janaury. They cannot happen unless LUFC’s owners allow them to look at the accounts etc. As KB is suggesting he does not even know Lowy, due diligence cannot have been undertaken making the stories absolute fiction!

    2. Krasner does deserve criticism. He and his consortium chose to sell ER and TA for knockdown prices and unfavourable terms. The question has to be why? As an insolvency expert, Krasner will have known it would be beneficial to LUFC in the long term had he not done this and had he taken LUFC into administration. We may have had to take the 10 point deduction then but LUFC would have been able to attract an investor keen to take the club forward and knowing there were no black holes, which KB had to face before he eventually to us into admin. ER, TA and LUFC shuld have been sold as a job lot.

    The rent we now have to pay for both is a massive burden for a L1 side. Why did a man whose business is renownded for dealing with debt make such an ovious mistake. That is the real question!!!

    • TSS

      Although I don’t disagree with anything said (based on the knowledge of Bates’ lies) Bates claims he doesn’t own Leeds United. Anyone of Lowy’s stature would have no problems locating the actual owners if this was true and have no reason to deal with Bates.

      As for the accounts. It’s a public company so anyone can view them for a fee. These are back-dated and don’t tell the whole story, but again, someone of Lowy’s stature would be able to throw some cash around and get to the bottom of Leeds’ finances without Bates. You don’t go through the people you’re buying from because they’ll only show you what they want you to see.

      Not saying this adds any proof to Lowy’s interest as I’m still uncertain, but there’s absolutely no need to go through Ken Bates to get a picture of Leeds’ financial circumstances and ownership structure.

      • timm

        I don’t really see the big deal about our owners? If you have many many millions & the banks are giving extremely low rates of interest then you’ll often look to something or somewhere else to invest in. I’ve been reading a lot recently about how investors are putting their money into commercial property instead of banks because they’ll get a better return. What we have to remember is that the Football League DO know the identities of our ‘owners/investors/bankers’ & they are totally happy that they are fit & proper.The ‘Red Knights’ frontman Keith Harris announced this week that he’s going to go to quite a few wealthy people/organisations to ask them to throw £10 million or more into the kitty in return for being a part owner of Man Utd. Im willing to bet that a good few of these will wish to remain anonymous? The only difference is that these people will be seen as saviours & i’ll also bet that the ‘Green & Gold’ mob respect that & don’t start campaigning for ‘transparency’?

    • Mikelufc

      I can’t believe TSS that you are supporting some unknown Aussie gangster against the man who singlehandey saved this club from extinction and now due to his support we are on the verge of lpromotion.
      I do not like Bates at all but creditwhere credit is due for fix sake.
      Lowy doesn’t, give a flying whatsit for LU, but the planning consent has aroused his interest, ken may not have his resources but will have no problem dealing with him, go for him ken you -unt, shameon you TSS

  • Arniemar

    Do any Leeds fans truly believe this Lowy interest? Lets face it there’s no way a billionaire is going to invest in the club at the moment – we don’t even own our ground and training complex and, in case anyone had forgotten, we’re in League One. There might be interest should we ever look like we could get back into the Premiership, but I’m not holding my breath.
    I’m a journalist and it’s easy enough to put together a speculative story like this and convenient enough to link it to Leeds, given our recent history of employing Australian footballers.
    The proliferation of football news websites these days also means it gets lazily picked up and re-published ad infinitum without any real checking of the facts.
    I agree with lots of what gets said about Bates. He’s not in it for the love of the club and I don’t believe he’s willing to properly invest in it.
    However when Leeds were properly up for sale, no-one else came in with ready cash to buy the club. So until someone does we’re stuck with him I’m afraid.

  • Paul C

    Fair does to Mr Bates. He hasn’t called Lowy a ‘SHYSTER’ yet but there is time I suppose. (TSS keep an eye on the programme notes at the next home game ..Lowys address , email and phone number might help in your twitter campaign to find him )

  • 606white

    I’m unsure about the lowy interest, as far as I see it if he wasn’t interested he would of just had a spokesperson deny interest and that would have been it, so there is a possibility.

    “The reports said Lowy’s people carried out due diligence on LUFC in janaury. They cannot happen unless LUFC’s owners allow them to look at the accounts etc. As KB is suggesting he does not even know Lowy, due diligence cannot have been undertaken making the stories absolute fiction!”

    Unfortynately in todays world you do not need permission if you have money, I wouldn’t be suprised if he could get hold of any information he wanted above or below board.

    Possible truth .

  • Big B

    Due diligence is not looking at the accounts filed at Companies House (in Jan 2010 they would only be upto June 2008!!!)

    Due diligence is going through the current trading details of LUFC looking at the current debtors/creditors etc.

    By suggesting this had been done in January, the implication is Lowy was well a long way down the road in discussions.

    Most companies actually ask for a non refundable sum to be paid before they even enter into this (e.g Pompey) to ensure the seriousness of the prospective buyer.

    This story just seems like another lazy bit of journalism by people wanting to create unrest at ER at the most inconvenient time!! Their agenda is not for the benefit of LUFC, it is the exact opposite! They are just trying to stir up the fans and cause trouble!!!

    • TSS

      Unrest will always exist at Elland Road whilever Ken Bates is chairman and there’s such a degree of secrecy surrounding the club. The fans want transparency and a board that delivers on it’s promises, which Bates has so far failed to do.

      As for the ‘lazy journalism’ angle. I thought the same initially, but the story emerged from Australia. It seems unlikely that they’d focus their attention on Leeds United when there’s bigger clubs that available to buy (ie. Scum, Liverpool). The job of a journalist is to sell newspapers, which is easier done with news on other teams. Leeds are a League One club when all’s said and done, which the world has largely forgotten about.

      • TheReaper08

        Yes but we are still a good story especially in a country where we have a strong following. Also you accused me of arrogance earlier, what makes you so sure this is a story about Leeds, I think this is more a story about Lowy and Leeds are a sub plot.

        It’s our collective arrogance that makes us think this all about Leeds United.

        • TSS

          As I explained in the previous post, what I actually meant was that English football fans were generally arrogant. Granted, I put it across badly, but it was never personally aimed at you.

          Anyway, the reaction still baffles me. Just been reading WACCOE and everyone on there seems to be equally puzzled by it all. The general consensus seems to be that Bates is trying to scare potential investment away because he wants to remain chairman. No comment from Lowy still has a lot of people wondering as well – which is ultimately the only way we’ll know for sure either way.

          • TheReaper08

            Only pulling your leg. Bates will sell if the price is right and Lowy is actually interested.

            If Lowy’s interest is genuine and he has the clubs best interests at heart then here’s hoping.

            Oh no, did I let my pro Bates hat slip there for a minute ?

    • timm

      Looks like they’re succeeding too! I reckon it’s Rod ‘Bastard’ Liddle? I honestly wouldn’t be surprised!

  • Sir Quej

    Personally I think that the whole Lowy story is just a tale thought up by some lazy Ausie journalist, but if there was any truth in it, dont you think Mr Lowy would have already been told what Bates is like? Dont you think he would have been expecting this sort of reaction? Dont you think he would have probably just have turned round and said:

    “Who the fuck does this little white haired pipsqeak think he is, I’m the big hitter here, this will be done on my terms, not his. In fact, I am not even going to deal with this mouthpiece, I am going over his head and will deal with the people who actually own the club”

    Someone like Lowy is not going to allow himself to be dictated to by someone like Bates. He will deal with people like Bates everyday (overpaid self publisizing ego trippers). He has not become a Billionaire by allowing them to dictate to him how he invests in a particular business.

    If he decides to do it, he will just do it…end of.

  • TSS

    When did WACCOE turn so anti-Bates? It was full of apologists the last time I was on there. Anyway, quite possibly the funniest quote I’ve read on there in years…

    “This Lowy, I think he runs Westfield, the property company. Aren’t they the one that has completely buggered up the town centre of Bradford? Hardly the best reference for someone who wants to buy a football club 12,000 miles from home.”

    “This Bates, I think he ran Chelsea. Aren’t they the ones that completely buggered up their own finances in the world’s most lucrative League and had to rely on a Russian Billionaire to bail them out. Hardly the best reference for someone who wants to buy a football club 1200 miles from home.”

    • TheReaper08

      Would have worked as well had anything of come of Chelsea’s debts. Instead they are now one of the world’s richest clubs, with some of the best players and multiple league titles and Champions league appearances. Bates engineered all of this after buying a debt ridden club for a pound minutes away from closure.

      Hardly the same as the Bradford scenario is it.

      • TSS

        There’s a point where your defence of Bates starts to look a little too much like a high-school crush. Your nearing the line! Haha

        • timm

          & by the way you speak of him TSS, we could be excused for thinking that you’re one of our creditors who only got 7p in the pound?

          • TSS

            Or, expressing the general concerns of the fans to Ken Bates dismal leadership? I’m hardly alone here Timm. The majority of Leeds fans have had enough of the lies and secrecy. The embarrassment he brings to our club with such flippant remarks is cringe-worthy. The sheer audacity of the man to question the suitability of Lowy – a self-made billionaire – when Bates has done nothing but run Chelsea and other businesses into financial ruin, then get lucky! (ie. Roman)

            How you can sit and not think the above remarks are unusual when we’re supposedly interested in getting investment is beyond me? To get investment, you need to woo the investors. Not scare them off with derogatory comments on their business acumen. I don’t think for one second Lowy is slightly concerned at what a small fish like Bates thinks, but he’s hardly making strides to warm himself to other potential investors.

            It’s almost like he doesn’t want investment! For someone who has no shares in the club and alledgedly takes no salary, he seems to be extremely concerned by those that do, or potentially could. Just a charitable kind of bloke that loves Leeds United I guess?

        • TheReaper08

          Only dealing in fact. If we went down 1-0 in a football match but won the game 4-1 would you incessentaly worry about the time we were 1-0 down ?

          The fact and I really do feel the need to repeat this word is that he bought Chelsea for nowt, developed the ground and the team significantly running up huge debts. These debts were never an operational issue, the receivers were never called and there are no issues of any other firms not being paid. He then sold the club to a billionaire making himslef a tidy sum along the way, the rest as they say is history.

          If that’s having a crush then I am lost for words quite frankly. By the way when are you taking Mr Lowy out on that date ;o)

          • TSS

            Soon as I can him! Certainly an illusive one, isn’t he!?

            From what those involved at Chelsea have said since, if he didn’t sell to Roman when he did, the club was screwed. It was Ridsdale on a slower scale with a lucky get-out clause from what I can see.

    • timm

      Apparantly the Bradford hole has become a major political issue? It was on Look North last night. You can forget about all the other issues in Bradford, the candidate that will win is the one that comes up with the best solution regarding Mr Lowys wonderful gift to the city! I suppose when it comes to WACCOES piss-take, the only positive was that he left an incredible stadium which generates income all year round & the only thing not performing was the team. Unlike our friend Peter who left a dump of a stadium, a long list of players on huge wages who weren’t even here anymore, no players actually at the club & a mountain of debt!

    • Pete

      Is it possible to bugger up the town centre of Bradford? It’s pretty much a wasteland anyway…

      Sorry, I just can’t be a fan of a place where I thought I was going to be set upon for wearing a Leeds scarf. I’ve worn that scarf all over the world, and only in Bradford did it raise any comments. Christ, I wore it in Leyton on an Orient matchday and didn’t even get a comment, and we are absolutely despised down here.

      • timm

        I can’t stand the place either but that doesn’t excuse the fact that what the guy’s done there is very wrong. I’ve had the shit kicked out of me in numerous towns for wearing my colours (Birmingham, Manchester, Middlesbrough, & a particularly nasty one in Bolton!) but i’m sure there’s plenty of people that can say the same about Leeds?

      • TSS

        I’ve looked into that mall thing a bit more and it seems to be just an unfortunate timing mistake. The recession meant that they couldn’t get people to commit to over half of the proposed shops, so work was halted until the financial climate changed. According to Westfield, work is still planned for this year?

        • timm

          I suppose we’ll have to wait & see then won’t we? I bet he wouldn’t have done it in Melbourne?

        • TSS

          As I said previously, Westfield is a public company now so it’s a decision made by a board, not just Frank Lowy. If the decision of the board was to pull out because Bradford wasn’t an attractive enough prospect for retailers, then that’s unfortunate, but that’s life.

          The hypothetical takeover of Leeds United is a personal venture and something he can’t be interested in for money. The amount of money football clubs make is less than pocket change to the likes of Lowy. He could build another shopping mall instead that generates more profit than all 20 prem clubs combined.

  • spanish white

    With Lowy being a developer,he may have looked at the potential of club, ground,& proposed hotel, shops etc.Just a thought.

    • timm

      Too near the White Rose for shops & no way to accommodate shoppers & footy on a Saturday afternoon.

      • spanish white

        I’ll get my coat

  • I’m Frank Lowy and so is my dog

    Is it just me that finds the whole “name and money” thing kind of ironic? Why don’t we apply that logic to the current owners of Leeds United…

    1 – Name – We (and Ken Bates supposedly) don’t have a clue who they are.
    2 – Money – Anyone seen much investment by them yet? Me neither.

    • TSS

      Yeah the irony didn’t pass me by either. For the record Ken ‘Frank Lowy, £3billion!’ Enough said.

      • timm

        That’s what he’s supposedly worth, not what he’d be making available to Leeds Utd. Very different & again, pure speculation.

      • TSS

        I think you’re missing the point Timm. It’s hypocritical of Ken to call for total transparency from potential investors when he can’t display those same traits himself. But, since we’re talking about investment. Ken Bates wealth £20m? Invested £0 – as he’s bragged about on numerous occasions.

        • timm

          Putting our different views aside for a minute, we need to be so careful about who we end up with at this club. No more crazy debt. I’d rather us stay within our means than mortgage our future again.

        • timm

          Well not really? He knows who he’s dealing with when it comes to FSF, it’s just us that don’t know. It’s like i said with Keith Harris at Man Utd. He’s touting around for over £500 million worth of investment from companies & individuals in order to make a bid for the club. I’ll bet you any money that some of those investors will wish to remain anonymous? Even though they’ll have a stake in the club & a say in how it’s run. That would make them exactly the same as FSF. If you actually read what i’ve just written you’ll see it’s totally impartial, just fact.

          • Duncan

            Sorry, I can’t help it, everytime you mention Keith Harris I think of the popular children’s entertainer and his comedy duck.

            “I wish I could fly way up in the sky. BUT I CAN”‘T!”

      • TheReaper08

        Also the current owners hold all the cards wheteher we like it or not. They can ask whatever questions they like.

        Until the rules are changed on Football club ownership we are not entitled to have the answers to this question. Perhaps it might be better for us all if we vent our spleen at the Football league.

        • timm

          Just hearing that Birmingham City could be in trouble now! How do these people pass the fit & proper persons test? The guy’s only been there 2 minutes & he’s defaulting already!

          • TSS

            Can’t be bothered searching back through, but weren’t you using the ‘fit and proper persons’ test as justification for why our secret ownership is OK? (Or am I thinking of someone else?)

            The annoying thing about FSF is that they could be just as bad, if not worse than the dodgy owners exposed elsewhere but we simply don’t have a clue because of the failing rules of the FA and FL.

          • timm

            But we’re not throwing millions around & defaulting on payments! Anyone can throw a banks money around & then sod off & leave an almighty mess. You can’t say that’s happening here.

          • TSS

            Only because they aren’t daft enough to lend him cash after the mess he made of Chelsea’s finances, and the fact previous loans have been defaulted on.

            I’ll have to run it through Expedia, but I doubt it’ll bring the most positive credit rating back! Matt BB’s post below has a lot of sense to it!

          • TheReaper08

            I reckon if you run that through Expedia TSS you mightend up with a long weekend in Barcelona !

          • TSS

            Haha. Sorry got confused because I’ve been looking for a holiday. You know what I mean!

          • Pete

            Well, if we wanted to go scouting for players for when Frank Lowy takes over and makes a massive war chest available…I certainly wouldn’t mind watching Iniesta in a white shirt every week…

        • TheReaper08

          And Barcelona is a lovely place, a good game of football, a night on the Tapas with beers and Sangria, spot on.

          I woudl rather we went for that Messi chap but wouldn’t argue with Iniesta.

          • Pete

            Messi, Iniesta, Ibrahimovic, Keita, Yaya Toure, Alves, Pedro, Bojan, Xavi, Puyol, Henry, Milito, Maxwell, Valdes…I’d be happy with any of those really…

  • Pete

    Lowy managed to get Ken Livingstone to agree to a shopping mall in the middle of London – he won’t give a toss what Ken Bates thinks. He’s got a good record against militant nutters called Ken…

  • Matt BB

    Ken Bates has a strange attitude as a businessman and it is setting alarm bells ringing for me. The below comments of course made without prejudice and based on personal opinion.

    He has invested I imagine a lot of his own and some investors money in Leeds United. He has failed to make it a sustainable business, by that I mean that the club relies on selling players to make a profit, also that its main resource for generating players – the academy is not owned by them and could be in effect removed from their management in its current format were someone to `cause a stir’ with the owner of the property.

    He has failed to raise a loan for £14M against £50M worth of assets, I’ll be honest if I had a ring fenced agreement meaning only I could exercise this right – I mean right now – the Bank would lend me the money as if I defaulted on loan repayment one they could repossess, and make a skipful of cash. So what happened there? The council would have backed him – but it seems he managed to make a mess of that, and then it was the councils fault?

    The real reason is that Ken doesn’t have any money to put into the club in my opinion and the investors don’t put much in either from what I can see. The public accounts and I am trying to be careful show £800K in two years paid to mark Watson associates – for what? Auditing? Restructuring advice? We don’t know its a lot of money though, and money that could have been put towards the playing squad, purchasing the ground?

    So a potentially very wealthy investor shows an interest – and he must have done in some aspect, maybe as part of seeing what Australian footballers have to endure in league one in terms of the security of their roles, conditions, maybe the interest has been disproportionately reflected in the press? Notwithstanding any of this Bates has got his a*se out, insulting Frank Lowy as an investor in Westfield, an extremely successful business which is doing well in retail and property in a recession, Why wouldn’t he want that money, to get a return on his investment and walk away?

    We all know there is something not quite right here. He was difficult when Abramovich came to Chelsea and they really needed the money they had a very well known deficit, and getting him out was difficult too. It can only be that Ken loves us all so much he doesn’t want to leave us, or that perhaps he needs to get his house in order before he sells, ie he will get more for the club if he owns the ground and needs to resolve that first, this is of course speculation. Perhaps it is more sinister yet.

    • timm

      It’s his ego! he’s scared of being out of the limelight. It’s a carbon copy of Doug Ellis at Villa, seeing off allcomers until one day he got an offer he couldn’t refuse.

  • Big B

    The writers of this piece of fiction re: Lowy must be rolling around on the floor laughing!

    They has stirred up a debate on a bit of made up gossip.

    Shows the power of the papers!!

    If Lowy was interested and KB was resistant, all Lowy need to is come out in the papers and express his interest. There are masses of LUFC fans waiting to back a white knight.

    His silence probably says it all!

  • Matt BB

    Again, without prejudice.. Yes Ken, a real ‘shyster’ this Frank Lowy… yes Thats his name, and his money is below.. (From the Westfield website) a balance sheet showing assets valued at at least £30bn at the end of 2009, rather more than Leeds uniteds assets of… In summary he could buy Monaco not just a flat in patrolled housing there.
    “The Westfield Group is the largest retail property group in the world by equity market capitalization and one of the largest entities listed on the Australian Securities Exchange. Operating on a global platform, the Westfield Group is an internally managed, vertically integrated shopping centre group, undertaking ownership, development, design, construction, funds and asset management, property management, leasing and marketing. It employs around 4,000 staff worldwide.
    Westfield has interests in an investment portfolio of 119 shopping centers in Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States, valued in excess of A$59 billion. These shopping centers have strong positions in their local markets with geographic, retail and economic diversity providing a strong and consistent income stream. The centers are located in prime trade areas, anchored by long-term tenancies with major retailers and incorporating a wide cross-section of high-quality specialty retailers and national chain store operators.”

    Westfield Shopping Centre Portfolio1
    Australia New Zealand United Kingdom United States Total
    No. of centres 44 12 8 55 119
    Total gross leasable area million sqm (million sqft) 3.6
    (38.7) 0.4
    (4.7) 0.6
    (6.0) 5.9
    (63.1) 10.5
    (112.5)
    Retail Outlets 11,747 1,723 1,270 9,004 23,744
    Asset Values
    (billion)2 A$29.4 NZ$3.0 £4.8 US$17.2 A$59.52
    1 As at 31 December 2009.
    2 WDC and joint venture share of shopping centre assets including work in progress and assets held for redevelopment.
    Note: Exchange rates as at 31 December 2009 were AUD:USD 0.9001,
    AUD:GBP 0.5557, AUD:NZD 1.2384.
    Business Overview
    The Westfield Group’s core business activities are explained below.
    Property Management, Marketing and Leasing Activities
    Shopping centre management involves leasing and day-to-day management and marketing of the centers. Westfield maximizes returns by creating an efficient and dynamic environment for retailers and a quality shopping experience for consumers. This requires working closely with retailers to develop a strong relationship and provide an appropriate platform for them to enhance their performance. Westfield also builds strong ties with consumers by supporting the local community of each shopping centre.
    Property Development, Design and Construction Activities
    Westfield’s property development activities are vertically integrated and involve all of the elements of development, design, construction and leasing. Westfield aims to maximize returns on investment by increasing rental income and appreciating the capital value of the asset.
    Westfield has extensive experience and a solid track record of completing projects on time and within budget. The Group mitigates much of the traditional risk associated with property development by having lease agreements in place with anchor tenants before commencing construction. In addition, Westfield diversifies the risk of any individual development project by undertaking multiple projects globally at any point in time.
    Funds/Asset Management Activities
    Westfield also manages assets on behalf of institutional and other investors. This investment is undertaken either on a joint venture basis on specific properties with partners such as AMP Capital Investors, Australian Prime Property Fund (APPF), DEXUS Property Group, Forest City Enterprises, JP Morgan Asset Management Real Estate Investment Management, Morgan Stanley Real Estate Management, the Perron Group and Prudential Plc, or as an investor in other forms of property-owning vehicles such as limited partnership arrangements in the United Kingdom with the Possfund and BT Pension Scheme, which are managed by the Hermes Group.
    The Westfield Group is also the Responsible Entity of Carindale Property Trust, which is a single-centre property trust listed separately on the Australian Securities Exchange. Carindale Property Trust’s sole investment is a 50% interest in Westfield Carindale, one of Brisbane’s largest regional shopping centers.

    • timm

      I wouldn’t mind knowing how much he’s into the banks for? That’s not meant to be sarcastic, i just imagine that the construction sector of his business must rely heavily on borrowing?

    • TheReaper08

      Cutting and pasting stuff without understanding it is really not helpful. As TSS has mentioned Lowy was a founder and Westfield is now a public limited company of which he is figurehead. All of the above makes excellent reading for the shareholders that own Westfield but what it bolis down to is personal wealth which is rumoured to be $6m Aussie which is still a sustantial amount of persoanl wealth.

      Westfield group would not be buying Leeds.

      • TheReaper08

        God as the day goes on my speed typing doesn’t get any better !

  • Matt BB

    Thats not a little offensive, the point being illustrated is that Frank Lowy is not the insubstantial chancer Ken Bates portrays all investors to be. The fact he has effectively set up such a powerful business means this is a man with genuine contacts, so I stand by my comments as regards how serious he is. Any CEO of a business that size will have serious personal wealth, which I read to be £6BN in his case, but that is irrelevant, no one puts their personal money into these things, its the business structure around them that counts.

    • timm

      I think what we all agree on is that Bates is a very blunt rude man who likes to cause mischief. But if you actually look at what he’s basically saying, he’s right. The only 2 questions that matter to Bates are ‘who are you’? & ‘how much’? & to be honest, they’re the only 2 questions that matter to us too? A big player like Lowy probably wouldn’t even make the time to meet Bates? He’d have a team of young hotshots that would just get on with the business of buying the club.

      • Matt BB

        agreed, if he wants anyone to work with him i dont understand why he behaves like this. If lowy is considering bidding for the club I agree he is unlikely to make a call to Ken Bates direct, however we can expect Ken to make a total a*se of himself and continue to make all Leeds United supporters cringe.

      • TSS

        If Bates doesn’t own the club, it’s none of his business and such ridiculous comments don’t portray Leeds United in a favourable light – which is integral to Bates’ “job” (I use the term loosely as he sits on his arse in Monaco for the majority of the year!)

        I just fail to see how anyone can defend these comments. The blokes an embarrassment to the club and should be forcefully restrained from talking.

        • timm

          I don’t think anyone is defending them? I think the bloke makes us all cringe, but everyone should just dismisses him for what he is, a rude old man who likes to make headlines.

  • Mikelufc

    When Palestinian political activist and politician Hanan Ashrawi was awarded the 2003 Sydney Peace Prize, Frank Lowy was one of the most vociferous among the chorus of Zionist protesters and Jewish lobbyists that decried the result and tried to dissuade NSW premier Bob Carr and the Sydney Peace Foundation from giving the award to Ashrawi. Lowy, among others, claimed that Ashrawi ‘supported suicide bombings’ and had a “long history of terrorist apologias and anti-Israel incitement”. Sydney-based Jewish-Australian journalist Antony Loewenstein shows how fraudulent these claims are in the opening chapter of his book My Israel Question, arguing that Lowy and co’s real problem with Ashrawi is her support for the Palestinian cause and anti-Zionist disposition.

    So, like Silverstein, Lowy is without question a filthy rich corporate Israel cheerleader. But there’s also evidence that he’s probably a crook, too. For instance, it appears that Lowy nearly got involved in the British government’s Cash for Peerages scandal with Lord Levy, one of Tony Blair’s closest aides, back in 2002. From a 2002 Sunday Times article:

    Lord Levy, one of Tony Blair’s closest and most trusted aides, was paid at least £250,000 by an Australian property group headed by one of the world’s richest men. The payments, which the company has attempted to keep private, are far higher than previously thought and began in 1999, the year Levy was appointed Blair’s envoy to the Middle East, reporting directly to the prime minister.

    They were authorised by Frank Lowy, the head of the Westfield Corporation, who has business and political interests in Israel and whose company is seeking planning permission to develop shopping centres across Britain. Lowy is a veteran campaigner on Jewish causes. He fought as a commando in Palestine during the 1948 Israeli war of independence and served with the Golani Brigade, which is currently serving in the occupied territories.

    The disclosure has raised questions of “cash for foreign policy”. MPs expressed concern at Levy’s potentially conflicting roles as a consultant for a powerful multinational company and supposedly impartial and unpaid envoy. Levy said he paid privately for trips he made on behalf of Blair. In a letter to Jack Straw, the foreign secretary, Norman Baker, the Liberal Democrat MP for Lewes, said:

    “I am concerned the Foreign Office’s diplomatic initiatives in the Middle East should apparently be so closely tied to the aims of one of the world’s richest men.”

    Baker said Levy appeared to be “simultaneously a quasi-minister, Labour fundraiser and consultant to a company seeking to influence government policy.

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