After poor performances it’s easy to fly off the handle, lose the faith and respond irrationally and in a total rage, which is why I usually leave the match report until I’ve had time to cool down a little and get to grips with my emotions.

Tonight however, there’s no point pussy-footing around what was a truly dismal display from the Whites. There was no fight shown in the performance whatsoever and Leeds look destined to blow another chance at success. No matter how many times we bottle it, it’s not something that ever becomes any easier.

Prior to the match it was revealed that Beckford had been ruled out with an achilles problem, which is probably why Paddy Power were offering double the odds on him being the first goalscorer. Paul Dickov was chosen as his replacement and he started alongside Luciano Becchio, neither of which had any affect on the game at all, underlining my opinion that Paul Dickov is the most pointless signing under Simon Grayson’s leadership.

My contempt for Dickov could indeed be clouding my judgement and in truth, there’s little he could of done to change the result with such inadequate service from the rest of the team. When the squad insist on pumping the ball long and hoping for the best, it would have been nice to see someone with pace to chase the ball and pressure the Millwall defence into mistakes. Someone like… I don’t know… Grella!?

Dickov and Becchio? Hardly the most terrifying strike-force in League One is it?

Elsewhere, despite having the luxury of being able to name seven substitutes, Simon opted not to include a central defender, so once Kisnorbo left the field Aidy White was his replacement and the defence was reshuffled. This helped nothing and to be quite honest, there were times when we may as well have had four cones in their place as the Millwall team almost walked passed them.

Naylor, for all his merits last season has been carried by Kis for all too long now and is clearly past his peak. Nayl’s is one of my favourite players, but emotion can’t disguise his faults anymore. Aside from his deteriorating defensive ability, his leadership skills seem non-existant. The defence was disorganised, failed to close down and get stuck in and it never appeared as though Naylor knew the answer. When he should have been shouting, issuing orders and directing the others, he was too busy looking around clueless trying to figure out what’s gone wrong.

Finally we come to the midfield, which provided no real service to the inaffective front two and little support to the defence. Snoddy didn’t have a bad game, but that’s about as good as it got.

Prior to this match I called for unity. For the fans to act as one and be the 12th man, but patience is running thin now and understandably so. I can accept dips in form, and bad results, but what we’ve witnessed at Southampton and tonight was a team that didn’t show any fight and looked resigned to failure.

I honestly don’t know where we go from here. I’m trying to remain defiantly optimistic, but the team is giving me nothing to believe in. We seem destined for the play-offs once more and probably another long, disappointing year in League One.

The thing that’s really bugging me is that nobody ever responded. Not even emotionally. I’d be happier if half the team had been sent off after resorting to horrible challenges and swearing at the ref, because at least then, it shows they’re as frustrated as the rest of us. It honestly felt like they’d given in long before the final whistle. What happened to the ‘never say die attitude’ of early season? The late comebacks and inspired substitutions?

Disheartened, angry and worried.

  • superhoops

    Is there a conflict of interest here? Lots of the players must realise that if we were to go up they’d be let go??

    I love him, but Grayson may well be packing his bag in the morning. Tonight was an embarrassment for everyone associated with the club, and I wouldn’t even bet on us getting a playoff spot now.

    Something dramatic has to happen. I fear there’s only one thing Bates will consider.

    • TSS

      I can only assume he’s lost the dressing room, which is a massive disappointment if true.

      I really like Grayson and he did everything right for so long, but a few little mistakes in January, most notably the poor transfer window and lack of squad rotation and it’s cost him massively.

      I don’t think sacking him is the right option mind – not so late in the season. We brought in a young manager and have to accept his inexperience will lead to mistakes. He’s made a few and now has to prove he can recover from them. Prove that the faith the Leeds fans put in him was deserved.

      Failure to achieve promotion though will inevitably lead to his contract being terminated.

      • superhoops

        He’ll be gone if we don’t go up, that’s for certain, and realistically we won’t go up with a new manager so play the percentages in my opinion and keep him.

        I hope he hasn’t lost the dressing room – but there again maybe that’s why Dickov is there, an old ally to help rally the troops. I’m totally gutted about the whole situation. The guy obviously loves this club. Maybe having too many experienced players means scepticism creeps in. Having a young side can work in your favour as the manager – fewer opinionated know-it-alls.

        But there again, we know he can get promoted from this division, with much less of a side than the one we’ve got.

        There is clearly something going on here that we don’t know about – and I suspect it is conflict of interest – it simply isn’t in the players interests to get promoted, as many of them know they’ll be out of a job if they do. Victims of their own success.

        • TSS

          Not so sure about that. I’ve known/know a couple of footballers from the lower leagues and they always believe they’re good enough to play in the Prem, never mind the CCC. They look at players like Crouch and Heskey and are convinced they’re better, but just didn’t have the same “lucky” breaks.

          Never underestimate the arrogance of a footballer.

        • Craig

          I’m not convinced about the ‘conflict of interest’ theory either. What are the chances a manager will keep a squad together that blows promotion so spectacularly? Even if they do move on the kudos of being ‘part of a winning squad’ will help find them further work.

          • Craig

            I meant, of course, “Even if they do move on from a promotion-winning team the kudos of being ‘part of a winning squad’ will help find them further work.

    • tim the white

      Well at least we will have a new Conference Centre, a Hotel and a Shopping Arcade with prices to watch football that no one can afford!
      I heard that there was a bust up on the training ground between Beckford and SG, and where was Kandol last night and when will Grella get a start? Something is seriously wrong at the club. Up to Christmas there was a special atmosphere on and off the pitch and a feeling this was our year. I felt last night there was apathy both on and off the field. I thought the supporters did their best, but the players have to create the excitement and are being payed to do it. Personally, I think we might just fall over the line but I would not feel confident about meeting Southampton or Hudders in the play offs. I have said it before – THIS CLUB IS NOT SUSTAINABLE IN IT’S PRESENT FORM FOR ANOTHER SEASON IN THIS DIVISION – THE CROWDS WILL FALL AWAY AND CASH WILL DRY UP. Grayson to go now? Probably too near the end of the season, but we do need some sort of boost. A win at Norwich – well you never know, but if we lose badly there it could be curtains particularly as we will not see Kisnorbo again this season. Where is Marques, as the thought of Naylor and Bromby in central defence for the rest of the season gives me the shudders. All the other teams around us know we are faltering now – YES those teams with average gates around 10,000 and poor training facilities who seen to find the players even with small squads. I rest my case.

  • Peter

    I think Grayson is out of a job in the morning. Bates won’t accept performances like that. Grayson has lost the dressing room especially if reports of Beckford being dropped tonight are true. A sorry night for Leeds United, definitely a new low.

  • Mark

    Totally agree with this article. Not quite sure how this team was cleaning up the divison up until January.

    Grayson Out in my opinion might be knee jerk but he is not doing anything to change the major decline (the league record in 2010 of 3 wins in 14 is relegation form). He keeps picking the same team and tactics. Why is he so stubborn in his failure to give Andy Robinson a chance and to drop Hughes. Also Graysons transfers have been very questionable – Crowe, Bromby and Doyle are all at best average (Not signing Lambert or Sodje).

    The teams lack of passion as well as ability was astounding tonight. Snodgrass looked tired after 30 mins and from my seat a lot of players were not putting anywhere near 100% in. Very dissappointing.

    Drastic changes are now required – this is now three months of poor performances. Lets hope Beckford comes back flying and Grella at last gets his chance. Cant bear a 4th season in this terrible league – the fans deserve better (am not sure the player do!!!)

    • Matt

      We got Kisnorbo instead of Sodje. Him and Higgs were great pieces of business.

      • LUFC-mac

        Agree with that Matt, but McSheffrey, Dickov, when we needed a top quality known goalscorer??
        SG has lost the plot

  • David N.I.

    Iv’e said it before we are not going up and that leaves the play offs thats if we’re even in them, if we are we have no chance. The famous LU are no more than a pub team. No one fears us home or away, when you pull the LU shirt on you should sweat blood, what we have playing for us now don’t even sweat. The football we play would not win us the second division. Larry seems lost on the touch line, as you said no central defender on the bench, clueless the Sky pictures showed us a manager who just wanted the ground to open up. Sorry but my faith in Larry has gone and it’s too late in the season to change, i’m lost for words, what a sorry time to be a LU supporter.I warned the season ticket holders don’t let Pappa rip you off for next season we will be watching football in League One again. MARKING TIME cause we are not marching on together

  • Mark

    And also bring Somma back now. Lincoln are already calling him the messiah – he must be better than dic(head)ov. News regarding Kisnorbo just come through and unfortunately he haa done his achilles (much like Becks) and is out for the season and will probably miss the world cup – major blow. So not only a terrible performance but we have also lot our best performing player of the season – when it rains it pours

  • timm

    Spot on TSS, the most worrying thing you say is ‘I honestly don’t know where we go from here’, I totally agree & the thing that really worries me is that i’m not sure SG does either? Is it time for radical change? Johnson to left back & White to left midfield? Kandol to partner Beckford to rough defences up a bit? Higgs back in goal? This team is suffering a crisis of confidence worse than any i’ve seen outside of relegation seasons. I still think 5 days in Spain would’ve been better than a trip to Strensall army barracks too. I’m totally baffled as to why this is happening? I look at Newcastle, Norwich, Millwall & i wonder how they differ from us mentally? They suffer the odd blip but they push on & you can see that they’re doing exactly what they’ve worked on all week in training. But for some reason we just don’t produce.It has to be one of two things, either SG is not communicating with the players properly, or the players are just not strong enough mentally to carry out his instructions on the pitch? I’m extremely worried.

  • Paul C

    A thoroughly depressing night for sure. I actually feared the worst once the January window closed, I was sure we needed more quality in midfield, more bite but it never came. I actually felt sorry for Simon Grayson tonight. I do not doubt he is trying his best to get us out of this pub league but he appears totally out of his depth. The contrast between him and Jackett was stark, in Grayson we saw a boy in a mans job (he looked to me that he was on the verge of tears at times) and in Jackett I saw a man who seems to know exactly what he was doing. I was so jealous that Jackett and the odious fans of Millwall have a team filled with pride , belief and real fire in their bellies..We on the other hand have a team of pussies, easily pushed off the ball, scared to take players on and bereft of ideas.(They were truly embarrassing tonight)

    Grayson is going to be sacked , probably not tomorrow but when we fail obviously someone has to take the blame, it won’t be Bates , he is after all our hero and our saviour! There will be bluster from him and of course a vow to make things better and then the search will start again next season for a new manager who can take on the massive job of getting us out of this league with the least expenditure possible (but of course on the positive side we do have some great plans for a hotel!)

    • Craig

      This is fair comment about last night’s performance but we played just like Millwall against Norwich, Liverpool, Man U…

      Why does it always take a half-time team talk for us to show any kind of spirit?

  • Andy Barker

    Theres a huge disparity between the first half and second half of the season. Part of this is down to confidence and the mental stage of the players, part of this is also the managers responsbility. But every manager faces dips in form, all players lose form.

    The real responsibility lies at the top and Mr Bates. Failed promises to buy the training ground, big transfer fees coming in for our best players and free transfers coming in to replace them. The manager can only work with so much and Bates is not giving him that much.

    The Ownership matter is a huge worry for me – what happens if our mysterious owners get bored, what will they do with the club?

    The performances are a sympton, the cause is far away from Elland Road in Jersey, Monaco, BVI………….take your pick.

    • LUFC-mac

      Money is there but SG chooses not to spend it!!

  • Timmo

    Atrocious . Did I spell that right? Give the reserves a shot, can’t get much worse.

  • halifax white

    ive tried to put my words across in a good way! i cant!! ive changed everything i have to or want to say several times!! inept!! clueless!! no bottle!! we second best to everything, fair play to millwall they were up for it, no arguements we were crap!! tonight it cost me a fortune spent train fare from preston to leeds (vv long return journy!) me, me lads tickets!! a few drinks, pies cokes and the such!! what a waste of my hard earned brass!! larry needs to get his shite together and pappa smurf needs to put his foot down!! it seems that we are destined to remain in lg 1 for the rest of time!!

  • halifax white

    and it pains me to say it, but it might be worth a fiver on norwich stuffing us 4 nowt!! that is i may say an understatement!! and does anyone know if any of our players read anything we (who pay there wages!) say?? could be interesting if we got any sort of response from them thats on the park and them up in the clouds!!!

  • Canadian Leeds

    I must say I am at a loss on how to proceed because we are just crap! Unbelievably as bad as we are we are still 2nd in the league and that is the only positive for this team.

    There have been many mistakes since Man Utd and Grayson needs to stop thinking of these mistakes and start afresh.

    The entire league now knows we are a one man team and when he isn’t there or not on his game we are not even ready to even beat St Albans! Beckford should have been sat after his transfer request and the fact he wasn’t told the team we can’t win without him and it is clear they all believe it now. Time now to change formation and start anew while we are still in control of our own destiny!

    SG starting lineup for Norwich should be:

    Higgs – Aiden – Rui – Naylor – Bromby – Max – Howson – Kilkenny – Robinson – Snoddy – Beckford/Becchio

    Go with a 4-5-1 formation with Snoddy just behind the frontline acting as a rover.

  • Mike

    As its all looking like previous years – it probobly means we will go and beat Norwich (probobly followed by defeat at home to Swindon). As previously mentioned its important to be positive and building the Hotel is clearly the way to go!!.

    We should be happy really; how we have managed to stay second and 3 points clear is a bigger question. I suppose whilst we have control we should be positive, in reality I fear goal differance will be the only differance on Sunday morning.

    You just know the Bristol game will be everything!

  • Grumpy Older Man

    I don’t see the point in saying any one player was worse than another, they were all universally awful. The lack of quality or variation really showed last night and the blame for that lies with the person who put that squad together, Bates via Williams and with the man who picked the xi and didn’t change the shape, Grayson.

    • TheReaper08

      I have to say GOM for once I am in total agreement with you, there are no positives from that performance last night, individually or collectively.

  • davelufc

    kilkenny and robinson in midfield. becchio and kandol up front, aiden white left midfield, snods on right, bromby at centre back with naylor, then hughes and ben parker, and higgs in net.

  • leeds4ever

    That has to be the worst performance ever at elland road.! Play offs again.

  • Craig 1919

    The issue I believe lies at Graysons feet, it’s no secret that the Beckford saga has caused a rift on the dressing room and his handling of the situation has upset a few players. The big issue here is the complete lack of tactical nous, the hoof ball game that worked pre Christmas has simply fallen in it’s arse after as it’s plain to see for all managers that there is no plan B, get the 2 biggest central defenders on our 2 playing strikers and it’s effectively game over also this stupid plan of trying to hit Bradley Johnson on the wing is a joke. How about for a match having some faith in the attacking options on the bench like Gradel, Grella, Killkenny and rid ourselves of the aweful ineffective Howson, alternatively learn how to pass a ball 5 yards? For the last few months I’ve seen no backbone, no desire, no ability, no fight, no ideas and most importantly no tactics! I’m not a big Ken Bates hater however his lack of ambition as a chairman to back the manager in Jan and August is completely deplorable £4m profit last year, £6.5m Delph plus all this seasons ssn tickets and merchandising and what is Grayson given? We should have been first at the table with big offers for players like Lambert, Puncheon etc instead of allowing them to move around without the financial restraint for a club “not in debt”. If we bottle it this year then this will hurt, it will cut very deep and I believe that a revolt will happen from the fans and Bates will find himself in a very unsettling situation,many fans have held there tongue but if we fail at seasons end that will all undoubtebly change

    • Craig

      But we weren’t playing hoofball before Christmas – that is the mystery!

  • Matt bb

    I like grayson, but bates has a self preservation drive like no one else. I actually think he may sack him and bring in someone like o’leary for the last 8 games. The beckford issue didnt help, but the cup runs were the real issue, the paintpot trophy in case. Any manager has this once in their career, once you lose the respect of your employees getting it back is extremely difficult.

    • Craig

      O’Leary… Noooooooo!

  • Tony Surgey

    Lets get Somma back from lincoln he is the form player all be it not for Leeds, Robinson must be raring to give it a go. Every game needs to be a cup final. While its been awfull watching the demise. They need to get on with it. We cant defend at the moment so lets do the defending in thier half. Lets try frighten teams be bold pressurise and get ahead in games. Higgs needs to come back Casper is looking a little out of form.

    Higgs-Bromby-Naylor-Marquis-Parker-Robinson-kilkenny-Howson-Snodgrss-Beckford-Grella subs Somma-Gradel-White-Micalik-Ankergren-Kandol-Beccio

  • Peter Surrey

    Grayson on the touchline looked like McAllister did at the Histon game – clueless.

    Team spirit was shot when Beckford put in his transfer request shot again when Mcthingy came.

    On this site and others many thought (myself included)that the performance against Brentford was dire, whilst SG and the media thought it was good. The only difference between the two games is that Millwall are better than Brentford.

    • I would love that fairy tale. O’Leary comes in for the last 8, we win them all, get promoted, secures a quality squad and wins the CCC, and vavoom back in the premiership in time for hotel completion!!

  • Chareose

    There was an article a while ago after the Man U game I think where Grayson was exuberantly planning for CL football and possably Prem. He stated that hed only be able to keep a few players of the current squad as the rest werent good enough…. I remember cringing at the time…. But i wonder if thats where all this started ??? Any player reads that and it could knock the stuffing out of you…..

    Anyway as said previously Bates is largely to blame. The other top clubs were back far more financially than Leeds were in the transfer market.

  • Will

    It’s been bad for several months and now it is difficult to see how we can turn this season around.

    7th place is a distinct possibility.

  • Herbman

    Abject misery, what a crap performance. God knows who was captain as there was no leader on the pitch, just as bad as against Saints, and that just nigh impossible.

    Cannot see SG being there much longer, team was totally incompetent, SG just stood their writing notes, why wasnt he getting his orders across in the 1st half? Casper got a cheer when he didnt simply boot the ball upfield, surely they can hear us and take some responsibility.

    Hoofing a ball up to a team with an average height of 5 foot nothing is obviously really sensible, every throw in going forward and long, again really sensible, how about building from the back, keeping position and passing????

    Just totally fed up with this abysmal stuff, we deserve so much more.

    A couple of weks ago i thought we would get to around 95 pts and still be doubtful for 2nd, now i cannot see us getting more than 11 or 12 points which gives us low 80s, so possibly we may hang onto 6th place.

    The team is crap, all average league 1 players with a few exceptions. I wonder if Becks really is injured, did he go and play at being a soldier?

    Team for Saturday, Higgs, Crowe (at least he is a right back), Naylor (who else have we got, Brondby or Lubo – Argh!!!!), Marques, left back (god knows, give Ben 60 mins), Grella on the right, Snodgrass and Kilkenny in the middle, White on left mid field (he cannot defend for toffee, looks better in midfield), and up front, Becks if fit and, again god knows.

    So next season still Div 1, another new manager, no new players, great support, crap team and still Bates.

    This isnt pessism, we are miles past this, this is now reality.

  • Chareose

    The biggest mistake of the season was not to spend decent money in the last transfer window…. I mean just how important is it for leeds to get promotion. If we dont you can expect to lose the only 2 decent players we have = Beckford and Snodgrass. Financing the team is now the biggest issue. In december we should have purchased 2 good players and maybe a loanee. Thats not graysons fault. Thats Bates….

    I guess Bates figures he can get another 3 million for snodgrass in his pockets before he leaves

  • Absolute garbage tonight, as was last week against Southampton. Tranmere was a flash in the pan. It has been consistently crap since the turn of the year. To a man the team have bottled it and Grayson doesn’t appear up to the job for me.

    Uncle Ken wont stand for this; he’s planning on us going up this year so that his ‘masterplan’ can commence. I’d start now by, and I’m disappointed to say it, relieving Grayson of his duties and getting someone in who can get a bunch of throughly average players doing what they get paid or…playing football.

    All season it has been seen that we need some deenders and some large bustling players to get us out of this crap league. That’s what Wilkinson did in Division 2 using meatheads like Jones, Kamara, Chapman, Sterland, Batty etc….not little pintsized pipsqueeks like we have. You dont play yourself out of the lower leagues you boot your way out and get stuck in…just like Millwall did last night.

    Not fit to wear the shirt an absolute embarrasment.

    • D the G

      couldn’t agree more – talk about No Fight And The Seven Dwarfs !

  • Herbman

    It would be interesting to know whether SG had access to transfer funds and decided his squad was good enough or whether he had no money. May have a big difference on the fans thoughs about SG.

    We didnt keep Fraser Richardson, decided against Harte and Sodje, didnt buy a new striker, no alternative to Snods on right midfield although we have 5 players who can play left midfield, have used the loan market rather than any investment, didnt buy TA, keep talking about redeveloping ER when we dont own it, so that wont happen, unless Bates is the Cayman Islands offshore company, i wouldnt bet against that either.

    So we lose to Norwich and Swindon, drop to 6th, and then we think hey its Yeovil, pick up a great 0-0 draw there and then … oblivion.

    Also been disappointing that no young players have come through this season.

    So all back to focussing on Saturday, with the joy of expectation, the 5PM reality and another moan on the web forum.

  • Keep This Shed White

    Blimey, even I’m getting the jitters. But talk of getting rid of Grayson is ludicrous even though he is making some terrible choices just now. There will be no changes until the summer and everything depends on where we are then. It was really awful last night but the players are the ones lacking confidence. Having said that playing a team full of giant defenders needs Kandol, not the 37 year old midget he picked.

    We will still be 2nd on Saturday, even if we lose which looks likely but who knows? You never know which Leeds might turn up. MOT

  • Ross

    Graysons weakness is his reliance on loan players and I have to believe this has had a detrimental effect on the squad. What at 37 and 4 ft nothing does Dickov offer the team that Kandol (at least hes got some presence for the long ball), Grella (at least he runs and can pick a pass), or Gradel (at least hes quick) do not? Yet hes straight in the side, McSheffrey straight in plays awful week after week but gets 10 starts, Lowry similarly poor yet apparently we are asking for him back. Last nights front line is the worst Ive seen since trundle and becchio played together at Cheltenham.

    Agree with the comments on Naylor looks past his sell by date, I fear the worst for our defence now without Kisnorbo, hes been our player of the season for me, and constantly mopping up for the assortment of other clowns that have played at the back all season.

    Casper is a disaster, admittedly not helped by the ironic cheers whenever he does anything but if your challenging for promotion you shouldnt have a keeper who is so bad. For all the b*****t ahhhs I have never seen an opposition keeper as bad as Casper all season. At fault for definitely one if not both goals last night, although Hughes was nutmegged for the first… and how that Millwall player got past 3 defenders before embarrasing casper at the near post I do not know.

    I’m afraid as much as I dislike bates I cannot blame him for the poor performance since Xmas on paper Leeds have a good squad for this level and we were playing well until the turn of the year.

    I also don’t think sacking Grayson is the answer, but again similar to the original article I am at a loss as to how to turn things round.

    Does anyone know if we have any youth players worth a go? I cant remember the last time Leeds played a new youth, Aidy White must be the last one and he was played by McAllister, Grayson deosnt seem to be interested in any youth options.

    Cheers Ross

    • TheReaper08

      You don’t play youth if it’s not good enough and I am afraid to say based on the last couple of games Aidy White isn’t good enough. He was removed for his own benefit against the Saints and last night he was at best inept, constantly out of position, easily muscled off the ball and totally skinned down the right all night.

    • Kernow

      I think bringing in another manager would be a disaster. Looking at who is without a club I can’t see us in a better place. Who would you turn to El Tel? Plus, remember we all thought Grayson was a master stroke when he came in – track record of getting Blackpool out of this division. I can’t help but feel something has gone wrong in the dressing room. My only guess would be JPT games – most teams play fringe players to keep them involved, give them games. We played full strength teams even in the early rounds. Why? Seems daft looking back from this stage in the season.
      I also think the youth issue seems to be part of what’s going wrong. I was angry when we lost those young lads this season to Man City etc but I heard they wanted to stay but Grayson just wasn’t bothered about the youth system. Look at the O’Leary squad, young guns who all played for the badge. Why are we bringing in the likes of Dickov? His salary would help keep hold of our promising youngsters.

  • Henry V

    Simon Rattled!!
    It is the first time I have seen him in a daze.
    He does not think he can pull us out of this!
    We have seen this so often before, sadly!
    The players have gone into their own world
    and nightmare has become reality!!
    We, of course, have seen it all before.
    We are POWERLESS to do anything but pray!!
    I expect Mr Higgs to be bask and that should help a lot, but our rivals smell blood!
    Millwall are a poor team of tryers,, but they are tough and know there limitations.
    The two goals were ridiculous!!
    It is a mind game now.
    Ken Bates has seen this situation before too, and may act,
    but who is there to save us?
    I hope it is Simon but………

    Henry.

  • mick webb

    I have coached football for many years, perhaps not at this level, but the basic principles apply. At any level games are won and lost in the
    1v1 areas. What was plain to see last night was our inadequacy in these areas. Glaringly obvious is Hughes’ lack of pace leading to poor defensive shape and decision making. We continuously force play leading to bad decision making and don’t seem to have to confidence any more to hold the ball and take on players. Millwall’s tactics to close down quickly demanded we take them on in the 1v1’s, once the first defender is out of the way it opens up the team behind. Yet we have lost the ability to beat players and would rather boot the ball up field with a paniced hope. If we are to progress we need get these 1v1’s sorted, both from a defensive and attacking point of view. Players do not become bad overnight. However unless we get back defensive concentration and focus on both player and off ball marking we will not breed confidence over the rest of the pitch. Defensive ball watching is all too obvious now. Like all teams confidence starts with defensive strength, tighten this and we will see quick and positive changes. This is a classic case of the players needing to take responsibilty, changing the manager will be even more desructive.

    • Mark R

      Good post Mick .
      Can only think of Snodgrass who would try and take a player on.
      Also all players when on the ball should be presented with passing options from their team mates – which didn’t happen last night.
      Reponsibility from the players is lacking.

    • Craig

      Great sense in this post. I was sitting with a friend who used to be a player and he said pretty much the same thing. What was frustrating the players is that, on the few occasions they were trying to do the right thing, the ball would catch a heel of a Millwall player and always spin the one of theirs and not ours.

      We desperately need to find a leader on that pitch. Our last surge through the leagues was masterminded by one Gordon Strachan – oh for his ilk on the field on Saturday.

  • Mark R

    Good points TSS & from those who wrote in so far.

    It was a shocker of a performance. We have no attacking threat without Beckford , the defence is weak without Kisonorbo ,& aside from Snodgrass what is wrong with the midfield? Where were the leaders on the pitch ?

    The key thing for me is the inconsistent midfield : either not protecting the defence , not being creative enough , at times totally annonymous. At our worst the midfield doesn’t provide any link between the defence & attack .Then we when we resort to the long ball it’s easy to defend against.

    Our midfield balance is wrong , and it lacks leaders / big characters , who will take responsibility . I can’t remember a time this season when our defence has the ball and one of our midfield has demanded the ball from them and played it out.

    We are also too slow at moving the ball from defence into attack when.
    It’s all very laboured at times and the speed of turning defence into attack is all part of the modern game.

    With their resources Millwall shouldn’t be anywhere near us . So why are they an apparently better team – they have an astute Manager who is making the most of his resources & their players believe and fight for each other and have the hunger . To play devil’s advocate > perhaps they have better players than ourselves ?

    When we see a player sign for Leeds they adopt the expectation and history of our great club . For some it may seem as if they have made it – they are good enough – maybe a bit of their hunger and fight leaves them.

    Mental strengh , hunger to improve and play at a higher level is what many younger players have.
    Older professionals I’m not so sure – some can enter a comfort zone. I’m sure their heart’s are in it but to put themselves on the line when they perhaps know a recurrance of an old injury may put them out of the game ?

    For all the criticism of Beckford – for me he has the hunger , Snodgrass as well. Other’s worth mentioning – Grella , Aidy , Killa , Parkerand the inconsistent Howson & Bradley. Kisonorbo & Bechio I’d also put in this bracket and McSheffrey & Gradel have something to prove.

    Over the last 2 months from the top 7 of Lge 1 , Charlton & ourselves are on a downward spiral .

    Need speed in defence from Rui & Bradley say at left back.
    Need to protect defence with midlefid destroyer.

    Get the midfield right , be creative . Give Killa & Grella a chance.
    Play Snodgrass behind the front two where he was so effective vs.Spurs away.
    If Beckford cannot play surely Gradal is provides a threat with his speed up front.

    What the **** is going on !

  • Henry V

    Seeing where the faults are in the team is easy!!
    How to put them right and change the mental approach is almost impossible
    in a decline where pressure is mounting.
    The players are playing for their careers but they cannot shake the malaise!
    Simon has all week to sort it.
    The problem is that it is the whole team!!

    Henry.

    • TheReaper08

      I agree Henry, we can’t make this selective veiwing based on the players we prefer or we like, there was nothing to like about the whole thing last night, it stank.

    • timm

      It’s the fact that he has all week to sort it out that worries me! look what happened when he had 9 days to sort it out after Southampton!

  • 1jjc

    The problems at Leeds will not be resolved until some transparency is made of the clubs ownership and willingness to finance new players….. How can anyone judge if Grayson is simply clueless in the transfer market by continually signing loan “rejects”, or if he in fact does have cash available to spend on better quality players. ….. The likelihood is that Bates ( or our mysterious owner ) has drawn the purse strings tight, and that Grayson fears for his employment too much to comment !
    So, we can all look forward to the building of the new hotel, rather than the building of a successful team ( sounds just like the “business model” for Chelsea Village, despite Bates claims no club ownership ). This will clearly be financed by a now very profitable Leeds United, high ticket prices, the sale of players ,etc. Yes, this could one day provide revenue which could buy new players , however, a relatively modest investment in better players now, would virtually guarantee promotion from this “pub league” level of football. This would then allow all the obvious “revenue streams” to be maximised, through larger attendances and the other financial benefits of the Championship / Premier League. …… Only when this is achieved, is it reasonable to look at ways of finding “additional income streams” such as a hotel….. So Bates, concentrate on the obvious, give the long suffering fans something to be proud of, ….. THEN LEAVE !

    • TheReaper08

      Bates doesn’t pick or motivate the team, Bates doesn’t choose the signings, Bates doesn’t train the players or choose on field strategy.

      There are lot’s that Bates has done that’s wrong, last nights performance wasn’t one of them.

  • Confidence starts at the back..how can you have any confidence with Casper,Naylor,Hughes,white none of them can defend. Naylor looks like he`s given up and needs Kisnorbo to cover the mistakes and total lack of leadership.Midfielders running around like headless chickens, Becks timing with the tranfer reques,Bates not dipping into the kitty in January so that we could push on with a couple more quality players. All this does not inspire believe that we will be playing championship football.

  • mick webb

    it seems obvious from all our comments there is an awful lot wrong. It goes to show how difficult Simon Grayson’s job is. The old addage is sometimes you just have to roll up your sleeves and get stuck in. Perhaps it is time we got the 11 best work horses on the pitch to chase their hearts out for 90 mins and give both the team and supporters a lift by effort alone. We seem too nice now so let’s get back the old Leeds spirit and sod the rest. Come on Simon now is the time to show us all some SCREAM, SHOUT and PASSION. COME ON BOYS GET IN THEIR FACES AND SHOW ‘EM WE MEAN BUSINESS

  • timm

    I don’t really understand why things like not buying Thorp Arch have contributed to our downfall? I really don’t think our squad get together & discuss how disappointed they are about the fact that we don’t actually own Elland Rd! These are just postcodes that they type into their expensive SatNavs. At the start of the transfer window Grayson made it quite clear that Bates had told him to identify his targets & he’d give him the funds, he went on to say that we didn’t need much strengthening but ‘1 or 2 may come in & 1 or 2 may leave’. This is exactly what happened & to my knowledge the only missed target was Barnard who preferred to stay in the South. Mcsheffrey was an ambitous target & is probably costing us a lot of money, he’s also living proof that Bates kept to his promise of backing Grayson. The fact that he hasn’t worked out is not the fault of Bates. It’s the managers job to identify the right players & get the best out of them & Grayson is failing. Forget the Liverpool, scum & Spurs games, we were the underdogs & didn’t need motivating. It’s winning when you’re expected to win that’s the difficult part. The belief’s just not there.

    • Dje

      We’re definitely underdogs against Norwich now;
      well, definitely, maybe.

      • timm

        God i wish i’d never said that! I hate Oasis!

  • Kernow

    Re Transfers at Christmas, I’m not the biggest Bates fan in the world, but at Christmas Grayson said he had money to spend and if he wanted players he’d be given funds. The good player on the market went to other clubs. Now was this Grayson or Bates?

    • timm

      Which good players? You can’t include Barnard as he chose Southampton over us & if a player doesn’t jump at the oppotunity of playing for us then we don’t really want them anyway. We signed a striker from a top premiership club & their were a lot of Leeds fans who were very impressed that we’d got him. I’d be willing to bet that we pay Mcsheffrey more per week than we would have paid Barnard? That’s not lack of ambition. This is down to no one but the manager. Has he upset the dressing room by bringing in Mcsheffrey on big money? Why not play Mcsheffrey alongside Becchio last night as an out & out striker? Lowry was brought in on loan because in Graysons opinion we have Parker, White & Johnson who can all play left back & we just needed temporary cover. Anyone thinking we can land the likes of Billy Sharp for £1.5 million from Sheff Utd is dreaming, why would he drop down to League 1 when he’s currently playing for ‘the Arsenal of the CCC’ & being paid big wages by his parent club? This is a team problem & it’s Graysons problem. I don’t care for Bates but i won’t make him a scapegoat.

      • Craig

        These posts illustrate why few of us would even want to be a football manager. We all have ideas who we’d like to see play for this club but only the manager knows who he has approached and been turned down and the players he knows would only join if we are in a higher league. We tell him to splash the cash and he does so – on McSheffrey, a player who most of us thought was a great catch and may be prepared to sign permanently NEXT season. We are now criticising Grayson for doing what we wanted him to do because that player we all wanted MAY HAVE upset the dressing room!

        At Christmas the manager genuinely believed we had the squad to get us out of this league – and who would have doubted he was right on Jan 1st? With the way we were playing and the lead we had, I personally believe he was right to wait until the summer to splash the cash because it would have bought us a better class of player. OK, we can look back now and say different but we didn’t have to make that decision when the players we might have gone for were looking at other clubs. Who’d be a manager?

  • mikelufc

    Heaps and heaps of good stuff above and great reading but no matter how thin you slice it, Grayson has lost the plot.

    He appears to have lost the dressing room too so why does he insist on favourites?
    Why was Dickov and Mcthingy etc brought in?
    Why does he allow them to play hoof ball?
    None of Graysons loanees this year have been a bit of use, this affects contracted players when they are picked time after time regardless of performance.
    Statements like the one this week to say that no further contract talks will take place until season ends will affect players.

    I will grudgingly accept that Bates enormous meanness and greedyness has ruined any possibilities for Simon but only grudgingly.
    There are a lot of managers doing a lot better on a lot less, Jackett is one of them.

    I spent all week trying to rid myself of the negativity and hyping myself up for this match.
    I would have served myself better leaping under a bus.

    For me it is crystal clear that for whatever reason Simon is not capable of changing things and as ridiculous as it seems we have to get rid, but who to bring in???????? There’s the rub.

    Swing the axe Bates, it is the only thing you are fit for.
    Bring in someone who will kick arse and show a little imagination.

  • Henry V

    To be positive!!
    To me Neil Kilkenny is the only midfielder who can pick a pass consistently,
    and plays it on the floor.
    Unlike Doyle and Howson, who like to chip it up in the air for the opposition to head away.
    He would be my first choice in midfield, and he does not lack confidence.

    Henry.

    • timm

      I agree but we’ve only seen glimpses of it this season. He & Robinson are the only 2 who look to bring it down, make space & use it. The Doyle & Howson head tennis just isn’t good enough.

  • mikelufc

    But he is only 1 man Henry!

    As in all things when a situation starts to go bad it is good to reflect and wonder where and when and go back to where you were before when you were doing ok.
    Simon has been unable to do this for whatever reason.
    Why did he change a winning formula?

    • Craig

      Maybe he changed a winning formula because we were all demanding he give our personal favourite a try! He could also see that the team were tiring. Grayson’s first mistake was not to do even a little rotating of the squad in the JPT.

  • Jonny

    No doubt a shocking performance and really worrying for the rest of the season. I agree with TSS, just can’t see where we go from here except play-offs. Its got to be odds-on that Millwall will be level with us come the end of saturday and to say that at the start of Jan they were 21 points behind tells it all! Their run in looks much better than ours so can only see this going one way now… but never say never!

    I don’t believe sacking SG is the way forward though, ok no disguising that him and the team have lost their way but certainly not the constructive change we are crying out for. But change is needed all the same. My suggestion that going into this game against Norwich we drastically change the starting XI where possible. Start Grella, Kilkenny, Higgs and even Crowe for example. Can’t do any harm in a game where we surely have no chance on the basis of the last two games.

    With regard to people’s anger at the lack of spending during the Jan transfer window, I can only assume that a decision was made by SG, probably based on transfer funds that we need not buy anybody and that the current squad would be good enough to do the job. Remember that as of Jan 3rd we were flying! (well moving forward). The decision on who to pursue during Jan is not a a quick-fire thing and based on the month before i dont believe you would say major investement was needed to get out of this division. Its easy to look back now and criticise the transfer window, and I agree to some extent that more could have been done, but I think that the squad we have should be good enough to get out of the division! there is massive lack of confidence and belief, and it has got to the point where we should use some of the good players that dont seem to get much of a look in!

    On the another note anybody heard anymore about this rumour that Beckford had a massive bust up with SG and stormed away from the training ground? Heard that he was seen in the Everton area of Liverpool last week as well!

    Anyway, as a worried Leeds fan to another… Marching on Together!

    • Craig

      Never believe a rumour until you know it to be true.

  • mikelufc

    Dennis Wise is still unemployed!
    Director of football maybe? I think we all agree out football needs some direction.

    • Craig

      I really hope this is a joke!

      • Craig

        Please say it is a joke???

  • Gus poyet doing a great job with brighton all the best to Gus for the rest of the season

    • timm

      yep, great coach. He’s done a great job there with nothing.

  • Craig

    Reading the LUFC website, it looks like Simon agrees with us:

    “When we’re at our best we pass it well with flair and imagination and we’re hard to beat as well – and we didn’t do any of those things.
    “They are a handful and we couldn’t cope. None of our players won individual battles. We did pass it better in the second half, but…”

    When players that are perfectly able to pass a football start hoofing it the reason has to be mental tiredness or panic. Both of these are either brought on or uncovered by teams that close down fast and show physical presence and determination. I think Grayson has seen this and it is the reason he brought Dickov in – but, for me, he was so disappointing in the first half, playing as a ponderous right winger and showing no threat in the box at all.

  • Timelord

    hi from oz, first time i have seen the team play since they beat scum, as it was live here in australia, shocked, each of the last few months after a poor result i thought (in my minds eye) that we had a good team that had a unlucky result.
    i am now in shock, reason being that after actually seeing how they play i no longer can trick myself into thinking that when i wake up sunday morning and log onto net that there will be 3 points waiting. “wots to do”
    ps i am a blackpool born leeds fan and actually a grayson fan as he has until recently over last 5 years been a very good manager
    i am too far away from elland road to really have an understanding of whats going on.

  • Pains me to say it but maybe Wise is the answer?…he did it with minus 15 points; ie got the players up for it, which quite evidently Grayson cannot. 3 months into this year and just a small handful of wins is relegation form in anyones’ book. Grayson rattles on about them all sitting down for a ‘chat’ post match last night…what? He should have been throwing tea cups and kicking arses as this is what this lot need…or maybe he has lost the dressing room? Who knows?

    Play offs again….maybe we need someone else now to arrest this crap?

    • Nicholas

      Wise and Poyet did it together remember, wise on his own was crap!

  • Dje

    For years I’ve always looked forward to us holding something resembling stability when it comes to our managers. Chopping the next managers head off after eight months in charge became a whirlwind merry-go-round, and one that has only contributed to our downward spiral. I admit I’d never really noticed Grayson as a manager at Blackpool, and did feel that we’d screwed up (again) when Bates chose him to replace McAllistair – but the results were promising, and at least he wasn’t Dennis Wise.

    The first doubts I had about Grayson as a manager came against Millwall. Not last night, but during the playoffs last season. To play hopeful long balls and getting the tactics wrong once is an error – and something to rectify, but to do it a second time in the second leg is a cardinal sin and shows someone who doesn’t read games as well as he should. Although we looked to have recovered, and Grayson to have ‘learnt’ the game better, during the first half of a season when we were flying, when we began to implode once more after New Year, Grayson’s odd post-match readings of our games – whether we won or lost – set the alarm bells going again. Yes, managers are blinkered – alla Wenger, Ferguson, Benitez, Mourinho – but Grayson is not of their standard, and has never proved himself (in my eyes at least) to be a good enough reader of the game. Simply put, to answer how to improve the team’s performance or how to get back to winning ways is reliant on first being able to correctly identify the the problem. If you can’t read a game during or even after a match, then how can you possibly learn anything about your team? Having just read Grayson’s post match take on last night’s game I have to say their is nothing new there. It’s the same old same: we’re not working hard enough, not enough passion, not competing for the ball. It’s the same shit he’s been saying for the last fourteen matches. You have to seriously question whether the players have enough belief in him to actually bother to listen to this same-old-same-shit. If they’re not then you have to get someone in who they will listen too.

    So now I’m quite indifferent to getting rid of Grayson; but if now, then let’s make it today.

    As there are now four teams within ear-shot of us (especially if Colchester beat Brentford tonight), it is too much to hope that ALL these other teams can throw away as many points as we are doing/will continue to do. So, unless the boys miraculously remember how to play football all of a sudden, automatic promotion is gone for us.

    Instead we’ll finish in PlayOffLand – possibly in sixth spot come the end of the season, on goal difference ahead of Southampton and Huddersfield, but small merices and all that.

    Does anyone reckon that Grayson is the man to take us up with the form he has the team in through the playoffs? That’s the playoffs were realistically it’d help to actually win a game or two. I just can’t see it. So we end the season losing in the playoffs again – Beckford goes in summer, Grayson is sacked in summer.

    Wouldn’t it be better to concede that under the current regime/lost dressing room/whatever we are not going to finish second, de facto. But if you brought someone new in now they’d at least have the last eight games of the season to figure out their best starting eleven for the playoff campaign. Perhaps even the rubbish we saw play in the Leeds strip last night might suddenly return to being the warriors they were at Old Trafford (changing managers has an uncanny coincidence of suddenly seeing players metamorphosis overnight into their former selves – especially when they’ve lost faith in the current manager). So we’d be playing better football than we currently are, possibly actually winning a match in the playoffs, possibly still picking up second place. It is a gamble, yes, but when you are on a losing run what really is there to lose?

    Having said this, my only caveat is that we should only get rid of Grayson if we (re: Bates) have someone lined up to replace him. If not, then another ten games of the same-old-same and we have the Summer to lined up the replacement.

    And please, don’t let it be Blackwell.

    • Good post with some good comments…cannot see Blackwell back as I think he’s no big fan of Batesy…but Wise? Well who knows? The point is to do it NOW so we have 7/8 games to get something right…if only for a new face to assess the best 11 for the play offs.

  • paul (whinmoor)

    LAST NIGHT FOR ME WAS THE LOWEST I HAVE FELT SINCE BEING DUMPED BY HISTON. WHAT I WITNESSED FROM THE FAMILY STAND WAS A TEAM PLAYING WITH NO HEART, COMMITTMENT, PASSION, WILL TO WIN AND MOST OF ALL NO CONFIDENCE. I LIKE TO CONSIDER MYSELF AN OPTIMIST BUT NOT ANYMORE. THESE INEPT PERFORMANCES ARE FRIGHTENINGLY THE NORM AND I CANT SEE IT CHANGING. WE ARE THE PACE MAKER IN 3000 METRE ATHLETICS RACE, WE WERE SO FAR OUT IN FRONT BUT WE ARE NOW BLOWING OUT OF OUR ARSES. ONE ATHLETE HAS ALREADY GONE PAST US (NORWICH) AND NOW FOUR OTHERS ARE ON OUR SHOULDER THREATENING TO GO PAST US. IF THIS IS NOT ENOUGH TO CONTEND WITH WE HAVE THE NIGGLE IN THE BACK OF OUR MINDS OF WHEN TO RENEW OUR ST’S. DO YOU DO IT NOW OR WAIT TO SEE WHAT LEAGUE WE ARE IN ? I DONT KNOW ABOUT ANYONE ELSE BUT I CANT STOMACH ANOTHER YEAR IN THIS LEAGUE. IF I WAIT TIL AFTER APRIL 12TH THEN MY ST’S WILL COST ME £800.THATS 400 FOR ME AND 200 FOR EACH OF MY KIDS.LAST SEASON THEY WERE 139 EACH, SO THAT WILL MEAN A 50% INCREASE IN MY KIDS TICKETS. IS THAT A JUSTIFABLE INCREASE WHEN SOME PREM CLUBS ARE LETTING KIDS IN FOR UNDER 40 QUID. THIS I TAKE TO BEING BLATATANT DISREGARD FOR THE CLUBS FUTURE FANS, SOMETHING THAT BATES DOES NOT GIVE A JOT ABOUT. IN 1993 WHEN THE EAST STAND OPENED YOU COULD GET A CHILD UNDER 13 IN WITH A FULL PAYING ADULT, WHICH IN MY EYES ARE THE LIFE BLOOD FANS NOW. SO WHY ARENT WE DOING THAT NOW. THIS CLUB IS BEING DRIVEN INTO THE GROUND BY A CHAIRMAN THAT COULDNT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT AS LONG AS HE IS MAKING MONEY. WHERE HAS ALL THE MONEY GONE, 4 MILL PROFIT LAST YEAR 6M DELPH 400000 SELL ON MONEY FOR KILGALLON, OLD TRAFFORD, LIVERPOOL AT HOME, 2 X SPURS MATCHES, ALL THE TV MONEY, THE 5 MILL FOR THE 2 CHELSEA KIDS, ROSE TO SPURS 25000 AVE HOME GATE FOR 3 YEARS IN DIV 3,ALL THE MEMBERSHIP MONIES, ITS ENDLESS. NOT KNOWING WHO OWNS THE CLUB, THE GROUND, THE TRAINING FACILITIES, ITS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE. IF IT WASNT FOR THE MAGNIFICENT FANS OF OUR GREAT CLUB WE WOULD BE IN DIRE STRAITS(NOT THAT WE ARENT ALREADY). IT IS NOW TIME TO MAKE A STAND WE ARE LEEDS UNITED NOT HARVEY OR BATES OR THE 10000 MYSTERY SHARE HOLDERS, WE NEED TO BE THE ONES WHO DECIDE WHEN WE ARE PAYING OUR SEASON TICKET MONEY NOT BATES.BATES IS TELLING US TO JUMP AND WE ARE ASKING HOW HIGH ? ITS GOT TO STOP NOW HOW CAN YOU BUY A PRODUCT WHEN WE DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS. WOULD YOU BUY A CAR NOT KNOWING WHAT ENGINE IT HAD IN IT ? ANSWER NO YOU WOULD NOT. I SUGGEST A MASS DEMONSTATION BEFORE THE SWINDON GAME IN THE WEST STAND CAR PARK. ITS TIME TO GIVE THE CLUB BACK TO THE FANS AND REWARD OUR LOYALTY. IF YOU READ THIS ARTICLE TELL AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN. . . M.O.T . . .PS WHY WAS LAST NIGHTS GAME A CAT ‘A’ WHEN IT WAS ON THE TELLY? I’LL LEAVE YOU TO WORK THAT ONE OUT FOR YOURSELF.

    • Colin

      Paul,
      Agree with the sentiment but 21,000 turned up to a Monday night game that was on Sky. That’s the reason the ticket prices are so high. People are willing to pay it.

      Only way to make the board notice is to not turn up to games.

      As for money – i think about £5m a year goes on rent for ER & TA. A lot of people say we should have bought more players. But not so many were saying this when we were clear at the top of the table??

      • paul (whinmoor)

        colin this is true people are willing to pay, but my main gripe is the S.T prices paying for something when you dont know what product you are getting. why not come out and say this is the price if we go up and this is the price if we dont. SIMPLE. by the way its a million a year for TA and ER

        • Ilkleywhite

          Agreed guys, the fans are being “milked” for every penny, 21,000 for a televised league 1 game, to be honest, shows the great level of support the club has, that is higher than most championship clubs would attract for a similar fixture, but it also shows the contempt of the club in making it a category “A” game it is too expensive for a lot of people, and the quality of the product on show is poor…

          Patience is wearing very thin, every home game we have had in the last couple of months, we have wobbled, Brighton, Brentford, Millwall, Carlisle, alright, we beat Oldham, but so what! The teams we should be beating at home, we are not producing,
          There seems to be no bite, no early season form, it is going to cost us dearly, after leading the pack for so long, and being arguably the best team in league 1 to loose our prize at the end of the season, after being so close will be somewhat hard to bear.

          Casper let in two goals last night, his judgement was poor, Higgs is set to return, but after such a long injury, let’s hope he can show his early season sharpness.

          We have lost arguably our best player in Kisnorvo, when he was out last time we were poor, when he came back we were stronger, now it looks like a out for the rest of the season, he has picked up a bad injury

          So, where do we go from here, lets hope we can get something at Norwich on Saturday, lets hope we don’t get a pasting and loose, 3 or 4 nil, then the all important home game against Swindon, lets hope Dougie has a stinker, and we can win 2-0

  • Colin

    I’ve had a bit of time for this to sink in after watching the game last night.

    There’s no point in sacking SG and there’s no-one out there that you could get at this late stage. Those players can’t turn into bad players overnight. Okay, some of them have their flaws, but on paper if you compared them against Millwall man vs man in a Top Trumps stylie, then Leeds have the better players.

    The confidence has gone. And I’m a bit disappointed that SG said in his post match conference that he didn’t get angry, but he was sympathetic and said forget it and move on to the next game.

    All I can suggest to improve the confidence is give the players a bit of a shock. Take the armband off Naylor and give it to Snodgrass. Failing that, give it to Howson. If the defence have no faith in Naylor, then the rest of the team won’t have.

    I just think that the players are scared to take a chance. Ie. How many times did the defenders pass back to Casper – lots and lots – just because they don’t want to get the blame for not putting in a good pass or losing possession. Not only did that put undue pressure on Casper, but it shows the opposition that the defence are scared. At least Hughes tried to make the occasional pass forward. Snodgrass is good because he doesn’t lose confidence if he misplaces some of his passes, he just gets on with it. Some of the others need to do the same. It’s League One, no-one expects pinpoint passes all the time.

    That’s what was so frustrating last night – we didn’t give it a go.

    And how important now is Beckford?? Really need to get him fit and back on the pitch. No Beckford, no chance. Forget that rumour about a SG/JB bust-up at the training ground. I reckon someone’s made that up. Beckford’s had a tight hamstring since the Southampton game and was given an injection (to help the injury but it didn’t work) from the medical staff, so there’s no way Beckford would have been anywhere near a training pitch.

    • Dje

      I’d put money on Ankergren having kicked the ball more often in the first half than either Becchio, Johnson or Dickov.

    • TSS

      The Beckford rumour is a non-starter, probably coined by someone looking to fuel the hate fire even more.

      Good points though Colin. I’m kinda on the fence in terms of Grayson. On the one hand, replacing him could be catastrophic, but then keeping him isn’t serving us much better either. It’s not just an issue of poor form anymore, but poor performances too. It’s hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel and questionable signings like Dickov aren’t the inspiration I need.

  • Ilkleywhite

    When the new season ticket pricing came in the post with the proud declaration that we will “most probably be playing Championship football next season” and that was one of the reasons why the prices had gone up, I, for one, wondered if we were tempting fate, after last nights performance, it seems we have, we will be VERY LUCKY to get automatic promotion, and with our track record in play offs we will probably finish fourth and draw Huddersfield Town or Swindon, and that would be tricky, even if we DO get promotion, can we honestly say our team will hold its own in the Championship? I am ever the optomist, and can always see better things for us, but on our recent form, we are doomed for another season in League 1, I also have to ask, “where has all the money gone?” What about the £8 million or so we got for Delph, what about the revenue from the cup run? what about the season ticket sales, we have signed NO players who are any good, full of journeymen, on current pricing its £650 to renew for me £650 for my teenage lad and £475 for my Dad thats £1675.00 still, at least we’ll have a nice banqueting suite, lots of space in the car parks, and a nice new hotel for the visiting fans to stop at, and a bar to drink in at our expense.

    Fed up from Ilkley but still “Marching on together”

  • TSS

    One thing no one does seem to have picked up on is how noticable it was that Beckford was missing in terms of the oppositions defensive line.

    When Becks is on the pitch, it doesn’t matter how badly he’s playing, the opposition always have men on him. No one seemed to be going out of their way to track Dickov and Becchio because in the unlikely chance they got the ball, they were never going to get away with pace.

    This, for me, led to Millwall playing a much higher line and commiting more men forwards than they otherwise would. They had the confidence of the home team, just because we’d lost one player. This reiterates the point I was making continuously in January that we desperately needed another threat upfront. Without Becks, we’re scaring no one.

    • Dje

      Becchio and Dickov was categorically the wrong partnership and I don’t know what Grayson thought he was doing. One or the other (preferably Becchio) with either Grella, MacSheffrey, or Gradel – what the hell, throw Snodgrass up there even and let him run at their back four. You need some sort of variation to keep the opposition on their toes, otherwise it is too predictable. And we are too predictable at the moment – even when Beckford starts.

      • Craig

        Several times in the first half I noticed Dickov heading backwards toward the half way line as we were putting (or trying to put) a ball into the Millwall box! Couldn’t believe it!

  • Neil

    Depressing stuff. After 20 years i’m on the brink of ditching the season ticket. Did you know Norwich supporters are guarenteed a price freeze on their ST’s if they get promoted. Judging by how much the sale of Delph and the cup run swelled our own coffers I do wonder why our own club couldn’t have extended such an offer to us? Think it’s more a case of won’t than can’t.

    The April the 10th deadline was just a gun to our heads in my opinion. Sadly it’s looking increasingly like the gun’s chamber is empty and Ken can pull the trigger as much as he likes, there’s not much of a risk in missing out on Championship Football by voting with your feet.

    Like some that have already posted, I still had some room for some optimism that the players would pull through this spell but all I can see on the horizon now is play off misery.

    Really don’t think there’s much that can be done between now and the end of the season except for gritting your teeth and hoping the best. No point in sacking the manager, he’s got us this far, he deserves the chance to put things right, however unlikely that may now be.

    Difficult to believe that things could go so wrong so quickly after the day out at Old Trafford. I really thought the worm had finally turned that day.

  • TSS

    Micky Doyle issues rallying call and says fans booing was understandable and deserved. http://www.leedsunited.com/news/20100323/micky-sounds-the-rallying-call_2247585_2002775 Grayson has also said similar in that the players are always happy to take the plaudits so should be just as accepting of criticism.

    What does worry me about Grayson’s interview is the following;
    “We are still in a good position in that we are three points clear and second in the division with nine games to go and hopefully my team will come out and respond in a positive manner from now until the end of the season to achieve what we set out to achieve at the start of the season.”

    Aside from the excuse we’re still second and it’s ours to lose, the key word is “hopefully”. There should be no two ways about it. Either the players come out and perform, or they don’t play. It hardly fills me with confidence when the manager seems unsure as to how the team will play.

    • Dje

      Lol, true.

      Sadly, Grayson has been saying the same lines after each points dropped over the the last two months. I wouldn’t be surprised if at 4.50pm this Saturday we hear him say, ““We are still in a good position in that we are ahead on goal difference and second in the division with eight games to go….”

  • mick webb

    If I recall that red nosed Scots creature who runs scumland was very flattering when we beat them. We all know how cunning he is with his mind bending comments. I think he knew what impact he would have when he told us we would be a definite for the Championship. His words certainly got inside many of the players heads and swelled them beyond reason. I think we can all trace the fall back to then. Not even the Spurs performance reached that height and once you believe you are invincible it is difficult to accept otherwise.

    I bet red nose and his followers are loving this. COME ON DONT LET THEM HAVE THE LAST LAUGH HAVE A BIT OF PRIDE LADS!

    • timm

      I doubt very much that we’re high enough up Fergies list of priorities for him to bother entering into ‘mind games’ with us after we’d beaten them. I’ve never really known him to have a problem with us & the only comments he’s made historically are ones about the players needing to set an example & not wind the crowd up. I’ve heard him talk about his admiration for the ‘Great’ Leeds team & he took the trouble to drive himself to Doncaster on a shitty morning to attend Bremners funeral. We need to forget Man Utd, they’re a million miles away from us just now.

      • Chareose

        yes, we definately fell off the wagon after man united….. they completely lost touch with reality and grayson showed his inexperience by not knowing how to bring them back to earth…. for me hes definately lost the dressing room. If we decide to keep sg he needs to bring in other players like robinson, lubo and kandol

  • Matt BB

    I wonder how many other Leeds fans have been glancing at the internet this morning instead of doing their work? Are we all hoping to see a reaction of some sort from Elland Road in the form of a new loan signing, or even a couple?

    The loan market shuts on Thursday and we need urgently an experienced defender, a striker, and a holding midfielder. For me this would show we are serious about going up, and have at last recognised that the squad needs investing in. I do not lay blame at Simon Grayson’s door for this, he would surely have asked about Lambert, Hoolahan and so on in the summer. If loans are all we can afford then we might as well use them however.

    Since coming in as a permanent signing Max Gradel has not been used, McSheffrey has been out of position, only Lowry holds any merit, and he got injured.

    I think Simon Grayson will need to review in the next four days what he needs to do, and that’s stop losing. The similarity between him and any other manager at Leeds since O’Leary is the huge expectation weighing down on him, once Elland Road turns against you you are stuck. A couple of bad results and the players are getting stick, they can hear it. And their confidence goes. It’s a vicious circle.

    The players he has are capable of playing decent football, but changing things round sometimes works and sometimes doesn’t. He has had to do that too often this season and it has gone against him, a tired squad needed rotating, and even when the new players came in to alleviate the burden, they either didn’t get used, or got used at the expense of understandably disgruntled players (Johnson, Kilkenny, Howson, White, Hughes) Managing people is a minefield. They have feelings, and as a manager you have a job to do, and need them to buy into that and just get on with their jobs.

    Simon Grayson really does need to select his best XI and that means currently the ones he can trust to do a job, anyone with a wobble or who isn’t up to the pressure simply cant be used. Saturday’s game is the biggest of the season, and it will be one which makes or breaks us. The players are fearful of blowing it and have no confidence in their ability, when you get that the only thing that will break it is reassurance, and guidance. If Naylor is not up to that then Grayson as the boss needs to step in and prescriptively direct what his team does from the touchline, or make someone else Captain.

    I wish the team all the luck in the world because they have had none since January and that has hurt them as well, I also want to pass nothing to them other than praise for the hard work they have put in and that I am grateful for that for the first time in eight years I have enjoyed watching Leeds games until recently. Remember how well you played at Old Trafford against the best team in the world, you can beat anyone, you need to relive that intensity though and feed off it not be frightened of it, this is Leeds downfall. When the world is against them they can cope with it but not when their own fans are. Go on lads there’s still a lot of us who know you can do this. MOT.

    • TSS

      “I wonder how many other Leeds fans have been glancing at the internet this morning instead of doing their work? Are we all hoping to see a reaction of some sort from Elland Road in the form of a new loan signing, or even a couple?”

      If I’m being honest, I’m half expecting to hear that Larry has been relieved of his duties, but you’re right, I’ve done no work whatsoever today. Funny how Leeds United can dictate peoples moods for the rest of the week, I feel quite down and out to be honest with you and just want to see some sign of action. Whether that’s some new loan signings, someone fired, whatever. Inaction isn’t an option though.

  • Henry V

    Mr Doyle’s rallying call describes Monday nights display as ‘disappointing’.
    When they run out of pies it is disappointing!
    Monday night was a B—– Disaster – offering NO HOPE for the rest of the season!
    Do they think we are that stupid!!
    Yes!
    They are the ones who are ruining our season – not us!!
    If you paid to watch a play and the actors forgot there lines there would be a riot
    and a refund!!

    Henry.

  • Sammy Becchio

    just read every single post here, and i still can’t find any straws to clutch at. Im gutted. Why does this kinda stuff constantly happen to the team we all love so f**king much!!! Still mot……….

  • Pete

    Shake it all up.
    Try a team of:
    Casper/Higgs
    —–
    Crowe
    Bromby
    Michalik
    White
    —–
    Snodgrass
    Kilkenny
    Doyle
    Gradel
    —–
    Beckford
    Grella

    How much worse could it get? Dodgy midfield, and with Kis out the only options at centre-back are old Naylor and three shaky alternatives.
    Crowe did a job against Nani so we know he’s got it in him.
    Grella NEEDS games. He’s too good to be behind Dickov in the pecking order. Christ, I should be above Dickov in the pecking order. Can anyone honestly say that Grella would have run a) offside and b) that slowly just after half-time when Dickov got played in? Equalise then and it’s a different game…

  • TSS

    Is Simon doing any training with the lads today;
    http://www.leedsunited.com/news/20100323/boss-to-move-in-loan-market_2247585_2002902

    Will move in loan market by sound of it and Becks could be back for Saturday.

    Elsewhere, Somma has signed for Lincoln ’til end of season. He needs experience, but I’d have brought him back and tried anything at this point. (24 hour recall in place mind)

    • Dje

      Neill Collins if you believe SkySports

      http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_6049856,00.html?

      Preston’s reject centre-half; perfect.

      • Sir Quej

        Dje

        Can you at least wait until he gets on the bus to Leeds before you start slagging him off. FFS some of our fans are incredible….

      • Sir Quej

        And just in case you didnt realise this….EVERY PLAYER WE SIGN IS SOMEONE ELSES REJECT…OR THEY WOULDNT BE SELLING/RELEASING THEM

  • Matt

    If he doesn’t change at least 4 of the players on saturday then there is no way im renewing my season ticket!

    • timm

      What if he changes 4 players & we get beat 5-0? Will you renew?

      • Matt

        Well it is against Norwich. I would expect that anyway, regardless of who we played in whatever position. I just want to see some sign he is actually doing something behind the scenes.

  • oldhamwhite

    watched mike basset england manager, and heard his rallying call quoting kipling give me chills up my back just like the old song we use to come out to (the trumpets with the rocky music after it – any one know what thats called by the way) we need something that gives the players a kick up the arse and

  • saltburnwhite

    team v norwich shud be:
    gk higgs rb crowe lb white cb michalik cb marques rm snodgrass lm robinson cm howson cm becchio st beckford st kandol.
    get becchio in the holding midfielder role , he holds the ball up well and has good strength and at least you know hell try his best unlike the enigmatic doyle! get michalik and marques in at centreback as lets face it they couldnt do any worse than naylor and bromby!
    and bring jermaines man kandol in …..new aggressive team to throw at norwich go on just do it grayson ..whats the worst that could happen…….anyone for dr pepper as next years sponsors!!!

    • Dje

      I take it Marques is injured.

      • Craig

        Coming back from injury – he has played a few reserve matches.

  • oldhamwhite

    watched mike basset england manager, and heard his rallying call quoting kipling give me chills up my back just like the old song we use to come out to (the trumpets with the rocky music after it – any one know what thats called by the way) we need something that gives the players a kick up the arse and want to get stuck in!! id even play bromby as a holding midfielder hes leeds tell him get stuck in. team:

    higgs

    parker rui naylor johnson

    bromby
    grella killkenny robinson

    snodgrass
    beckford

    idunno i just think he needs to shake it up a bit like an earlier post take armband from naylor and give it snoddy the guy does gives his all and also is not afraid to to flirt his mouth

    id also love to kandol back with beckford up front i love becchio i do but his first touch is appauling and recently instead of being a power house we need and standing his ground getting stuck in he is easily going over looking for the freekicks and the ref as clearly shown have picked up on this

    sorry if i have loads of spelling mistakes i think the boss is watching me haha

    MOT

  • oldhamwhite

    neil collins to join on loan till end of season ??? anyone know much about him ?

    • Colin

      Darren Ferguson obviously doesn’t rate him. Hence, he’s available for loan.

      • Sammy Becchio

        He wasnt to bad at Sunderland, worth a punt, anythings better than the shambles that is our defence at the moment

      • Sir Quej

        Oh well, if Darren Furguson doesnt rate him, he must be the worst player we have ever signed….

  • Sammy Becchio

    Starting 11 should be mixed up, and formation tweaked, (i know im not a pro manager, and Football Manager 2010 is the nearest i’ll ever get to managing Leeds) however its an idea…. based on current injuries….

    4-3-1-2

    Higgs (we need to rush him back)
    Parker (as above)
    Marques (i dont think Larry likes him anymore)
    Naylor (only just ahead of Lubo now)
    Crowe (I think im better than hughes, the more and more i see him play)

    Kilkenny (passing speaks for its self)
    Doyle (Slighlty better than JH at present)
    Snodders (could play behind front two, but his delivery would be wasted)

    Grella (worth a go)

    Beckford
    Becchio

    That would leave Mcsheff, Gradel, Bradders,Kandol,Howson,Robbo, Dickov out,(attacking wise, but we need to try something!!) Also it would at least look like we have some impact players on the bench

  • Chicago White

    Grayson has worked wonders with limited money, many before the start of the season were worried about the squad for this season (myself included). If Grayson has failed it’s the fact he is unwilling to stand up to Bates and demand real funds to get the players he need and also the funds to keep good players (how we have needed a Douglas type player in CMF), but as history shows any manager who’s ever stood up to Bates has had a short lifespan at his clubs. The real issue is the lack of quality and investment, look at Southampton who have signed Lambert, Barnard, Puncheon and others not for this season but for next season.

    Does anyone realistically think that Grayson wouldn’t have gone after or signed all three of the players mentioned if he had the funds?

    It’s about time Leeds fans woke up and did something about the real culprit who has seen the club fall to out lowest level ever, we need to oust Bates as this club will not move forward until we do.

    If we don’t gain promotion this season whoever is in charge will have to rebuild the squad as Becks, Becchio, Snods, Johnston, Howson, Rui, Casper & White will all be gone.

    • paul (whinmoor)

      YOU ARE DEAD RIGHT RIGHT CHICAGO WHITE WE DO NEED TO DO SOMETHING, READ MY POST FROM EARLIER, WE NEED TO GET THE BALL ROLLING REGARDING THE GREEDY OLD B*****D BATES, STARTING WITH A MASS DEMO IN WEST STAND CAR PARK B4 THE SWINDON GAME. HE IS JUST DICTATING TO US AND WE ARE ARE NOT BATTING AN EYELID. WE HAVE 11 DAYS B4 SWINDON, WHICH IS AMPLE ENOUGH TIME FOR THIS TO SNOWBALL. M. O. T

    • Colin

      Put yourself in Bates’ shoes. Football is a business – it’s all about money. Now if you’re a Chairman/head of a football club and you’re top of the league by a clear number of points with games in hand and the manager comes to you and asks you for £7m for 2 decent players which will also add £4.5m to the wage bill over 3 years (2 players at £15k a week), what are you going to say?

      Are you going to bend over, pull down your trousers and pants and let the manager take advantage of you? Not a chance, you’re going to tell him to stick his request.

    • Colin

      Put yourself in Bates’ shoes. Football is a business – it’s all about money. Now if you’re a Chairman/head of a football club and you’re top of the league by a clear number of points with games in hand and the manager comes to you and asks you for £7m for 2 decent players which will also add £4.5m to the wage bill over 3 years (2 players at £15k a week), what are you going to say?

      You’re going to say No. Just like Bates. We just don’t have the money to spend like that. If other clubs want to spend it that’s fine, but we’re a 3rd division club – there isn’t much money to go around.

    • timm

      When Bates is ousted, who takes over? Because from where i’m standing i don’t exactly see a queue of billionaires! Southampton are owned by a billionaire who supplies the cranes to Southampton docks & wants to ‘give something back’! Although i’m told that he was approached by the council. We have a council that doesn’t give a toss about our club but who’ll happily reap the rewards when we’re doing well. We also have a city with a lot of really wealthy people but not one has ever offered to put a penny in!If you want to blame someone for our decline i suggest you look to Ridsdale. If you want to blame anyone for our form since xmas i suggest you look at Grayson & his players. It’s funny how when we’re playing shit it’s Bates fault but when we’re playing great it’s not down to him! Yes he’s a miserable old twat but it’s not him who releases Huntington & then has to go & get a Preston reserve player on loan 2 months later! It’s not him who releases Prutton & leaves us needing a player just like er…..Prutton! Mcsheffrey was a real coup for a team in league 1 & it was Bates who rubber stamped it! & if i was him i’d be a bit pissed off at what i was getting for my money!

      • Good call Timm

      • TSS

        Hi Timm, my main qualm with this argument is that no one has the knowledge to base such assumptions on. Infact, the only envidence we do have is contrary to your above point.

        Although I accept Simon Morris was a lucky escape for Leeds, he did express an interest in taking over the club the last time we went into administration. It’s common knowledge that there were other interested parties too, but none of these had a chance to buy Leeds United because of Ken Bates underhand tactics (the creditors would only accept a deal if he was the benefactor – probably because he was also the illusive creditor).

        Since then we’ve heard several rumours of potentional suitors rejecting Bates’ ridiculous valuation. Since the club has very little but a brand name to sell, it’s hardly surprising any potetional owner doesn’t want to pay over the odds for the club when he’d still have to buy TA and ER back afterwards, plus finance a capable group of players to get us back to the Prem before it looks even marginally like a clever investment. By the time you add all this up, you may as well go and buy a team free of debt, in a higher division who own all their own facilities for the same, if not lower, price.

        • timm

          But surely anyone who has the necessary wealth (ie, £500 million minimum) & the desire to own our club would see Bates as no more than a nuisance & would have a legal team which would be well equipped to deal with his ‘underhand tactics’. Im conscious that i’m sounding like im defending Bates here TSS when in fact i have no time for the man. As far as i’m concerned he’s the last of the old ‘sheepskin coat brigade’ & the game’s moved on. But where would we be if he hadn’t come in & ‘turned the trawler around’? It took tough decisions like closing the East Stand Upper & closing the town centre shops but we’re not carrying any baggage now & up until xmas we were flying in the league. Based upon Graysons comment that ‘the money’s there if i want it’ in January how is it now Bates fault that the team aren’t performing? I’ve already said twice on here that the signing of Mcsheffrey showed real ambition & you have to admit we were all mightily impressed by it. Leeds Utd should be massive but we’re a city that’s unfortunate in that we have a council that does as it’s told by a very wealthy few & unfortunately that wealthy few don’t care about Leeds Utd. It’s the same with our airport, it could’ve been huge but those same wealthy few don’t want planes keeping them awake at night. It’s just my opinion TSS but i firmly believe that our problems since xmas are down to no one but the players & coaching staff.

          • TSS

            I know what you mean, but I can’t see how a team that was storming away with the league suddenly becomes so abysmal. All I can question personally is Larry’s decisions (ie. players out of position, bad signings (Dickov, Capaldi et al.) and wonder whether he’s totally lost the dressing room.

            Somethings not right, but I guess we’re all in the same boat, clutching at straws and looking for someone to point the finger at.

      • Chicago White

        Ridsdale has much to blame but Bates has lied from day one and always get a free pass. Firstly there have been numerous potential buyers who have made discrete inquiries and have been rebuffed or basically denigrated by Bates and his executive. During admin there multiple interested parties but Bates engineered it so his was the only bid that would be accepted. For those who still claim he saved us please wake up it pure propaganda coming from the Bates media machine, some Leeds fans would believe the world was flat if Bates said so. The facts are were at our lowest ever position 3 years running, we still don’t own Thorp Arch even after selling Delph and being told at the time selling him would secure the future of Thorp Arch, we pay Premiership prcies (I just renewed my two ST’s this week). It’s easy to blame the manager which one do you want to choose because in 5 years were on our fourth and many speculate we could be close to our fifth, is it the managers fault or the person who has been responsible for 4 maybe 5 managers in 5 years.

        • timm

          There were 2 parties who officially registere an interest. One was the group represented by Don Revies son & the other was the RedBus group. Both groups were given every opportunity to submit bids but neither could provide proof of funds. Is Eddie Gray a liar as well? He often highlights the running costs at this club. Im not even going to repeat myself about Barnard! We got Mcsheffrey for gods sake! If you’re looking at it on paper & it’s a proven striker from a higher level or a Milton Keynes player or a Southend player who would you go for? There’s one thing for certain, Mcsheffrey will be costing Bates far more a week than Puncheon or Barnard would have! I don’t give a shit about Thorp Arch at this moment in time, i only care about why the 11 on the pitch have been shit since xmas & that has got nothing to do with Bates. All he’s guilty of is funding the targets Grayson asked for. Regarding the managers. Blackwells time was up, as was Gary Macs. Dennis Wise left. If Bates didn’t want us to go up why bother sacking Macca? If we go up we’ll be sold but nobody’s patient enough to buy a League 1 club.

          • TSS

            Not caring about Thorp Arch is at best short sighted and as for the opposing bids, people who actually have the means to buy football clubs don’t “register” they just do. In this case, it was impossible because of Bates. Eddie works for Bates, he’s hardly going to slag him off!

            As for McSheffrey, I was quite impressed with his signing but Simon playing on the wing is the problem. Same as Howson playing as a holding midfield when his only use is in attack and the likes of Robinson being totally ignored from the squad.

          • timm

            TSS. Stop misquoting me, i said i don’t give a shit about Thorp Arch AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME! I’ll start caring about T.A again at the end of the season. That’s not ‘at best short sighted’ that’s prioritising. I’m sure T.A will be just fine without me worrying about it for a few weeks while i have more pressing business to concentrate on! Regarding your quote ‘people who actually have the means to buy a football club don’t register, they just do’. That’s not allowed im afraid, when one or more parties are bidding, they have to register their interest & if successful, they have to pass a fit & proper persons test. Regarding Eddie Gray, have you read his book? He’s a strict catholic & doesn’t even swear let alone lie! If he was in Bates pocket he would just swerve the question, he definately wouldn’t lie.

      • paul (whinmoor)

        there are plenty of people that would take leeds utd but bates is keeping the price ridiculously high, he wants 45 mill for the name coz at the end of the day thats all there is. he is very happy making money in league 1. anyone with any ambition would plough that straight back in. not bates that money goes into the bank of bates like all the other millions that has come in over the last 2 or 3 years. bates doesnt want promotion coz he doesnt have the financial clout to deal with a team in championship or even prem. he wants to remain in football, lording it at our beloved club, lets be honest we made 4 mill last year not to mention all the money from the big games this season so why would he want it. the man is abig fish in a little pond in l1 and thats the way he likes it, thats why there is no real ambition. dont you think that if he had ambition we wouldnt av signed lambert or bernard. any leeds fans that are pro bates really need to give there head a shake, im sick of hearing “WELL IF IT WASNT FOR BATES WHERE WOULD WE BE” what a load of B******S

        • Craig

          Feel better after your rant? I opened this reply box to respond in a reasoned and factual way but I’m really not sure I know where to begin.

          Are you able to justify any of the above apart from the £4m profit last year and money from the big games?

        • Sir Quej

          Wasnt the so called £4million profit pre tax? Anyway, the fact is that you like me dont have the slightest clue about the day to day costs of running a club like Leeds so all your “Knowledge” about what Bates has not put back into the club is just rancid Bates Hate fuelled speculation. And before you start the “You Love Bates” rant, I cant stand him but your notion that no money is made available is sort of shot in the arse by Graysons own comments…. I know, lets go back to ridsdale’s plan of spending shit loads of money we dont have…Whats the worst that can happen?

          • timm

            Well said Sir Quej. Spot on mate

        • Seems to me there are 2 seperate points here wether you
          love him,hate him or simply don’t give a shit.Personaly as long as the club is making a profit and money is made available for the manager i dont give a toss who the chairman is. Bates is a business man and he will do what he thinks is best for the business and himself as would any business man, to say he does not want promotion is wrong, there will be increased gate reciepts, increased TV money and there should be an increase in money from sponorship and marketing if he is just the money graber people think he is there is more to be made in the CCC than in L1.The second and more pressing point is on the pitch and Bates being a money grabing smurff has nothing to do with the totaly inadequate displays we have seen lateley that is down to the manager and players and no one else,not signing Lambert,Bernard,Pele,Ronaldo or Maradonna or anybody else for that matter was the managers choice he obviously thought Dikov was a better bet. 3 years ago we where on the edge of extinction now we are making a profit and if Papa smurff is making money himself so what, as a business we are heading in the right direction, we are not there yet but we are at least pointing the right way, but, we need to get back on track on the pitch and thats down to the manager and players NOT Bates

          • timm

            At last! Thank you Graham. It really is as simple as that. How many clubs can stand up & say they’re not in debt? Man Utd are winning everything but are the majority of their fans happy? No they’re not, i bet there’s a few of them that might even envy us a little bit. They’re £700 million in debt & it’s rising by the second, they have players who are totally out of touch with reality. we make a nice profit & pay wages which make us believe our ticket money actually makes a difference. If we go up Bates & his mates may well cash in anyway. If they do then fair enough, but if they don’t & as long as they support the manager & develop the ground then fair enough too.

      • Nicholas

        totally agree.

  • Blame Bates…do me a favour he’s in it for the ride, the glory, the money, his ego, etc etc…just like, well, everybody else in the game. Get real there is no loyalty anywhere in football, no one gives a flying f##k about anything or anybody else but themselves, a total bunch of leeches…Bates is just one of the bunch. If it were not for him coming in when he did Leeds wouldn’t exist. For that one has to be thankful. If he sells up and makes himself a few quid so what; it’s been going on since time immomorial.

    There aint no cue of millionaires/billionaires/trillionaires etc etc lining up now and there never was….just a bunch of ‘Big Time Charlies’ who didn’t have a proverbial pot to p#ss in and were reliant on the banks having a punt. The banks have now turned off the tap to fund pricks like our old friend PR and his like and that’s why, in tandem with all the leeches and overpaid ex bin men, roadside assistants, plumbers, etc, etc, many teams are bollocksed. Cardiff, Portsmouth etc anyone?

    Leeds have one massive saving grace…THE FANS..the pricks like me who turn up week after week, year after year to keep the dream alive. What we need is one of us, ie a fan, who has a few quid of his own and can get the backing of other fans (with real money) who only have one thing in mind…LEEDS UNITED.

    I’d put some money in myself if I could get some proper backing. There’s enough wealthy so called Leeds fans from the football and music world banging on about being a Leeds fan…maybe a few spare millions wouldn’t go a miss?

    Come on down!

    • timm

      If only it were enough Mark! Unfortunately a few Kaiser Chiefs & Ken Hom aren’t going to be enough for us to push on. I’ve heard there might be an American family looking for a new club soon though?

      • TSS

        Millwall can have them

  • TSS

    http://www.leedsunited.com/news/20100323/defender-joins-united-on-loan_2247585_2003129

    Confirmed loan signing. At least that’s a reaction if nothing else. I was starting to wonder if all we were going to get was a continuous series of ‘it’s not good enough’ comments from everyone they could get to speak at TA.

  • Benjamin Bunny

    He’s pretty good if I remember correctly. Fierce and strong, bit of bastard.
    How come Doyle has been talking to the press alot lately, isn’t the captain supposed to do that kinda stuff?

  • ropey wyla

    It’s no good we’re fucked, sack everyone except Higgs, Kis, Howson and Snoddy and lets have a crack again next year. Bollocks

  • mick webb

    As the day has gone on the comments have become increasingly complex and bitter. I am sure there may be a place for them in the future, but for now we need to focus on the last few games. One thing for sure is Simon Grayson will not and cannot sit back. It is at times like these where good managers show their quality. Don’t I remember some years ago a certain Alex Ferguson one match away from the sack. I really hope the players realise how much pain the true supporters feel for this club and place their hearts on their sleeves for the rest of the season and make us smile again. Be honest and be proud to wear the badge. See you all in the Championship!

    • Dje

      I think the brigade calling for Ferguson’s head a few years back were part of the prawn sandwich lot – perhaps questioning their self-worth in paying ridiculous money to follow a football team that stubbornly refused to win each and every game, denying them their sugar-coated 90 minutes of ‘I am a winner, Baby!’ ego-boosting fix.

      The more interesting point with Ferguson and ManU is how crap he did in his first season at Old Trafford (I don’t think they won away all season). There were lots of calls for him to go and I bet it was seriously considered in the boardroom too. But they stuck with him, and the rest is shedload of cups and medals history. Let’s hope there is some poetic symbolism here for poor Larry’s current predicament.

  • Sir Quej

    I think you are all over reacting. This is Leeds United after all…I mean, come on…Did any of you really expect us to do this the easy way? Anyone who did, has obviously not been a Leeds fan for very long.

    And all this talk about not renewing your season tickets…Either renew it or f*@k off and shut up. We could do with out the constant whining anyway. Blame Bates, Blame Grayson, Blame the players…for all I care, you can blame the poor bitch that squeezed you out of her minge but YOU are as much to blame as anyone. Yes, you heard right. YOU, the so called fans who have to find someone to moan at even when we are going great.

    Even when we were flying at the top, all I can hear is whinging tw*ts slagging our top scorer off because he doesnt run himself into the ground..forget the 30 or so goals he scores. F*@king whinge whinge whinge. Its in our blood as Leeds fans. We cant help it. If your son or daughter was struggling at school, would you spend your timing shouting at them and telling them how shit and stupid they were…NO…coz this would just make them perform even worse.

    The same goes for our players…and you can shut the f@ck up before you start spouting the “But they are paid professionals” shite at me. They are HUMAN and having to spend 90 minutes listening to wankers like our fans screaming abuse and insults at them is not going to suddenly pick them up and make their performances improve.

    I keep hearing people say that if the players are not committed to the club they should f*ck off and play for someone else. Well I would say the same to you “so called fans”. If you are not committed to the club, then f*ck off and support Huddersfield. The lack of your booing and insulting the players will more than likely help the situation. Otherwise, shut the f*ck up and support the lads.

    A 0-0 Draw against Norwich, followed by a win at home against Swindon and the a win in our next game and you set on moaning arses can get yourselves back to slagging off our top scorer and league one player of the year because while scoring 6 goals in 3 games, he didnt run until he bled from his ears….F@ckwits

    • Dje

      Stop the whinging.

      • Sir Quej

        lol….touche

    • timm

      I think it’s because some of the fans are so committed to the club that they say any player not committed can f@ck off. I for one don’t want players here who don’t give a shit about this club. I agree about the Beckford knockers mate but i don’t earn enough money to give it to players who don’t give a toss. I’ve missed less than 10 home matches in 30 years so i don’t think i’ll be fu@@ing off to watch Huddersfield anytime soon!Yes mate, always get behind them during the game but if i want to have a go in the pub or online i will.

      • Chareose

        lets get gary mcAlister back to do the signings, sg can coach the team.

        macca brought in most of our best players = snodgrass, bechio, kilkenny…. players who can pass rather than sign a reject from from North end

      • Sir Quej

        timm…How many players across the country do you think REALLY give two shiny shites about the club they play for? It is a job, as highlighted all the time by players jumping ship for whoever pays them the biggest signing on fee.

        Our players are not bound on by a deep seated love of Leeds United. They dont turn up for training because being a part of our once great club is the thing they have dreamt of all their lives… They do it because the love football and get paid a shit load of money. It wouldnt matter to them if they were playing for Leeds, Millwall or Colchester. The players that join us do so because they see Leeds as a possible avenue to the higher leagues, not because playing for Leeds was a childhood fantasy (There are obviously exceptions to this rule).

        All football players are committed…but to winning, not to Leeds United. No player goes out wanting to lose and anyone who thinks otherwise is a muppet.

        And moan all you like online and in the pub. My derision was aimed at the ones booing and screaming abuse at the match…coz you are only contributing to the problems by doing this.

        • Colin

          Boooooooooo!!

        • timm

          I don’t want them to fall in love with the club or kiss the badge, i just want them to work hard & give 100%. I personally don’t give a shit where Jonny Howson’s from as long as he puts in a shift!

        • Craig

          I do think some of them fall in love with the club/fans/city along the way. You certainly hear some players saying this after they retire.

  • David N.I.

    Larry says he’s going to get loan players in, are you allowed to bring eleven in ?????.

    • Dje

      Anyone ever heard of a ‘loan manager’? Just thought Avram Grant is sort of kicking his heels at Portsmouth at the moment.

      [Kidding;

      sort of]

      • Colin

        Avram Grant??? Jew must be joking :)

        • Dje

          [Slaps head] Oh dear, I reckon you’ve just opened a new flurry of comment-action/abuse, lol.

  • mick webb

    Whatever your opinion, this is a great debate and shows how much we all care. Perhaps if we can now all pull together and will some positive vibes we will influence the outcome on Saturday!

    It might be crap, but I’m up for trying anything. Keep up the support everyone!!!

    • Colin

      Very good post Mick.

      Now everyone don’t get all crazy on me, but with this league being so topsy turvy and Leeds being great then terrible, let’s say Beckford is fit – maybe just maybe we could give Norwich a good game and win at the weekend??

      If SG said “Okay Millwall was terrible but this is it now – you’re all fighting for your places and just go out there and attack attack attack” then maybe we could do it?

      One thing’s for certain, Leeds have nothing to lose in the Norwich game. Norwich are 11/10 to win. We’re 5/2. No-one fancies us in this game, but remember what happens to Leeds teams when the old “everyone hates us, we don’t care” attitude comes out – then we’re up for the fight.

      No-one fancied us against Man Utd or Tottenham. Now no-one fancies us against Norwich. Can lightning strike 3 times?

      • Craig

        I think there is a distinct possibility this may happen. I read the report in the Telegraph yesterday quoting Grayson as pretty much saying “shape up or ship out”.

    • timm

      Well said Mick. Let’s get Norwich & Swindon out the way & then go unbeaten til the end of the season! It’s all about positive thinking now.

  • Mark R

    TSS – publish today’s posts as a book – there’s everything here ..it’s almost been Shakespearean . Grayson & the team damned ( Did it myself earlier in the post ! ), then resurected . Bates the villain damned , although reluctantly praised for’saving the club’. Demonstrations called against the ‘evil regime’ , to attend the matches or not attend the matches …and through it all the unwavering passion of our fans for OUR CLUB .

    My team for the rest of the season :
    Manager : TSS
    1st Team Coach : Mick Webb

    Goalkeeper : Craig

    Right Back : Ty Hinchcliffe
    Centre Back : Herbman
    Centre Back : Colin
    Left Back : Matt BB

    Defensive Midfield :Demo Man Paul Whinmoor

    Right Midfield : Chicago White
    Centre Midfield : Henry V
    Left Midfield : Myself

    Up Front : Sir Quej & Timm

    On the Bench : Grumpy Older Man , Craig 1919 , Sammy Bechio , Chareose
    First Aid : The Reaper 08
    Half time sandwiches: Mark Warburton

    Mascot : Benjamin Bunny

    MOT

    • Colin

      Disappointing – still no place for Michalik on the bench :)

      • Mark R

        Nice one.

        • Colin

          Mark, I like that team. It has a classy feel, a strength in depth, great passion, a real desire for Leeds United and if anyone else is like me, absolutely no pace.

          Oh hold on, you made me CB – that’s okay – I think I have as much pace as Richard Naylor :). My colleague in defence Herbman (or as I like to call the cheeky devil, the Herbster) will have to play the Kisnorbo role and do all the running and quality defending while I stand there and watch. oops, sorry I’m thinking I’m Richard Naylor again.

          For your brilliant initiative, I think you should own the captain’s armband!

          • Mark R

            Appreciate that Colin.

            I reckon I could just about make 45 mins.

    • TSS

      LOL, that’s hysterical, although Ill have to reject the managers job I’m afraid. I simply aren’t stupid enough to take the cursed hotseat at Elland Road. I’ll take Bates’ place instead and do the appointing and firing on a bi-weekly basis, as and when they annoy us.

    • TSS

      PS. TheReaper08 as first aider made me laugh.

      • TheReaper08

        First aider ! That’s a damn disgrace I tell you, just because I wasn’t around much yesterday I am rewarded with the St Johsn Ambulance badge.

        I have you know I am from a very proud somewhat famous footballing family and have played football at a fairly decent level.

        If that doesn’t work then my brother in law is also one of the chief designers at a large sportswear manufacturer so I can get us lot’s and lot’s of free stuff !

        At least stick me on the bench…….

    • Chicago White

      Blood on yer boots lads

    • Benjamin Bunny

      Damn right i’m the mascot, a bloody good one too! Lol!

    • Craig

      I fancy it. What a defence! They talk such a good game I’m not sure I’d have much to do!

    • Sammy Becchio

      Ooh, the bench! Cheers Mark R, by the way i’m a left back, so when matt BB gets injured, play me there, p.s i track back unlike a certain Aidey White! ha

    • Chicago White

      When I first started playing I was in attacking MF and it would be an honor for me to play in a Leeds MF with such illustrious company plus some legends from the past. As I got older and towards the end of my playing days I ended up playing a Libro position just in from or just behind the back four. Funny thing is I’m 50 in August and was thinking of finding an over 45’s or 50’s team so a comeback is on the cards. I certainly would love to play one game on the hallowed turf of ER in the all white or all yellow of LUFC. I couldn’t wear any of the following numbers though out of respect for the players who IMO opinion own those shirts and number 4, 7, 10, 11, I would very much like to see the number 4 shirt retired because there is only one true owner though I’d be willing to have to come out of retirement temporarily if a Batt’s type of player came along.

      The true owners of these numbers:

      4: Billy, Batts
      7: WGS, Lash
      10: Gilesy, TC, Shezza, Macca
      11: Eddie

  • paul

    When did it all go wrong?? i’ll tell you, from the 4th minute when howson scored against Wycombe (after scum) from that moment we have not played any decent football (maybe a litte in second half carlyle jpt up at their place and spurs)Ferguson saying “they’re a very good team” Rednapp saying “they’re a very good team playing way above their station”.

    Please someone tell me why…the way i see it is the blame lays at the feet of the manager, i don’t like his post match talks it seems he doesn’t care about the result, he always wants to move the agenda to the next match.

    If he can’t motivate the players and get it through to them that if they don;t perform they will be letting down the 21,000 in the stadium the thousands watching on sky and the countless others all around the world..yes all around the world, then something is wrong!!

    Maybe i should send him a tx Simon Try this in training control..pass..move.

    One of the Millwall players (can;t remember name) recently came from Stevenage borough but manage to run us ragged last night, we are too light in midfield we get overrun all the time. we are short of idea’s, i got use to going home after the games and saying to the wife ” i must admit love we are looking good, maybe a top 6 CCC side, now we look like a mid- low league 1 side.

    It could only happen to leeds, lets hope we get Charlton in the play-offs because they are as bad!

  • Mark R

    I’ll tell you where it all went wrong Paul ..any reason from the following … when the team stopped wearing the numbered sock tags in the 70’s , when they stopped having half time oranges , when the pies in the stadium became as hot as molten metal , when the programmes stopped having token’s on them , when the Don left to become England manager , the 44 days of Clough , being robbed of the European Cup in Paris 1975 by the Germans , Duncan McKenzie jumping over a mini , Tomas Brolin , George Graham , Bowyer & Woodgate , Publicity Pete , Dennis Wise , 33 different kits in 15 seasons ……….

    ..I’m going to have to lie down .

    MOT

    • Colin

      Just as well there were some positives to cancel some of those out like O’Leary’s wonderful piece ‘Leeds on Trial’ and Seth Johnson deserves a mention also.

      • TSS

        If you’re going for the greats, let us not forget the World Cup hero that was Roque Junior. Truly the stuff of legend.

        • Sammy Becchio

          Eh, are we forgetting the great Derek Lilley!!!

  • paul

    Good point mark R. It’s been a long day, should have been talking bout 7 points clear and nearly home and dry, instead we’ve all spent a day not mentioning Leeds to our friends, we’ve had to seek solice in TSS.

    Slight bit of good news Colchester dropped points 2nite if that’s any help.

    MOT

    • Sir Quej

      I dont know if Colchester dropping points is a good thing though Paul. I would rather face them in the playoffs than Huddersfield. My only hope was that the playoffs would be Us, Charlton, Colchester and Swindon. I thought we may have a chance of beating that lot. It would be awful to go out of the playoffs to Huddersfield.

  • mick webb

    The day got a lot better, we’ve gone from bitter and twisted to insane! However I will dust off my coaching manuals and accept the job. Now where is that lace for my football!!!

    • timm

      I actually think dropping to 3rd might be a good thing as we prefer to chase than be chased (apart from last night!). I reckon if we’re 3rd after Swindon we’ll go on & finish 2nd comfortably! Let’s see how Millwall deal with it if they get there. Forget the play offs boys, we’re going up in 2nd! A memorable debate TSS, just a bit disappointed to not be occupying that central midfield berth in Mark Rs team!

      • Craig

        You make an important point Timm. Chasing (as long as you aren’t too far behind) is far more satisfying than looking over the shoulder. The only question I have is… don’t we already have a team to chase?… Norwich.

        • TheReaper08

          Home and hosed is much better than chasing or looking over your shoulder. A moderate increase in results over the previous couple of months and that’s what we would have been doing now.

          • timm

            It wasn’t to be though so we’ve got to look at what’s left. Why is it that successive Leeds teams over the years don’t start playing until they go behind? Is it because we take the opposition too lightly, or just poor preparation?

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  • Matt BB

    Reading Clarkeonenil this morning, and I have to say, make your mind up.

    First of all they criticise Grayson for being a tinker man, next paragraph they are suggesting a 180 degree turn on tactics and introducing a 4-3-2-3-4-3-2 system (i of course am being sarcastic) however the point here is neither a massive change of tactical approach, nor a wholesale change in team members is good at this time of the season.

    For me the signing of Neil Collins is not a negative thing, nor is Shane Lowry returning from villa, when I’ve seen him he was a good left back, and better than anyone else we have. So Ben Parker will be upset? Ben Parker will not be at his best level of fitness, why would you leave it to him to resolve our problems at full back? Aidy White has shown he is a left winger – certainly no left back.

    Michalik, Marques – both injured i believe, so what else should he do, run through the u-18’s? He could but would that be the best thing to do? Or play a squad member out of position? Does that somehow make him a good manager? I think it makes him a demanding manager yes, but you need players who excel in these positions playing in them. Where he has played people out of position it hasn’t worked (McSheffrey, White, Howson). So maybe he’s learning, he’s a young manager. He wants to operate with a choice of centre backs, and when kisnorbo went it left him exposed, with no Marques and an injured Michalik.

    Anyway.

    I really wanted to come on here today to talk about our young players, and who anyone thinks (despite what I’ve said above) is worth a punt next season for the first XI, Has anyone else seen how well we did in Dubai in the U18 cup, got through to the final beating Blackburn, Arsenal, and Drawing with Inter? Whitwell and Hatfield appear to have done well, and the young lad out at Accrington Lees seems like a prospect. We also have Somma, clearly punching above his weight in league two.. Should we be positive about next season?

    • TSS

      A lot of good points raised Matt, although to be fair to GOM I think he’s trying to highlight that when we’ve changed the formation we haven’t done it so players can play to their strengths. What he does suggest makes sense to me, but I guess people will interpret it differently. I think what he’s done is look at the best XI we have and put them in their strongest position and that’s just how the line-up ended up.

      I did see the Dubai results and it’s no major shock Leeds competed well in a youth tournament, but when we came down a few years back we all thought the youth players would help us get back up but we’ve never had a manager like O’Leary who was willing to play them. Instead, they come of age and disappear to the Prem’s reserve teams.

      It doesn’t really matter how we look at this season, anything less than promotion will be an epic failure.

      • Chicago White

        The reason Dolly used youth was because he had to and he had Eddie Gray and Paul Hart getting the young players ready for prime time, once Dolly’s ego took over and he started buying under performing over rated players and we lost Paul Hart and Eddie was sidelined after the scummer was brought in as Doll’s number 2. IMO Eddie should be moved from his commentary role and given the academy to run as Director of Youth Development, he’s great with the kids has an eye for talent knows how to get the ready for the big stage and would work well with Grayson, he also has the respect of the Leeds fans plus he’s shocking as a commentator (though he will always be a legend), he could also groom some younger coaches for bigger roles at ER over time.

        • TSS

          I’d be willing to stick Eddie on the pitch at this moment in time.

        • timm

          I know he’s not the best commentator but have you ever heard anyone so positive? we were 3-0 down with 8 minutes to go at Swindon when he came out with the line ‘there’s plenty of time for us to get back into this game yet’! I know it would’ve sounded ridiculous to many who were listening but the guy just doesn’t do negativity. Can you imagine the impact he’d have on academy kids with his positive mentality? I’d have him back like a shot.

  • mick webb

    The youngster Joe McCann was getting plenty of plaudits last year but haven’t heard much about him this year. He is meant to be an exceptional talent on the left side and played up 2 years in the England set up last year. How is he doing now?

  • Choppers

    There was also a lad that scum tried to sign but he signed for us, supposed to be an amazing prospect.

    I also heard we are trying to sign an arsenal full back Obed who was on trial with us.

    I noticed on a lot of PNE forums that Neill Collins is not very good and they are glad to see him go. I hope that he turns into a good signing.

    • TheReaper08

      Look on the positive side, I was categorically told that Liam Dickinson, Lee Trundle and Sam Vokes were great signings, perhaps this might work in reverse !

  • lufcboy

    I think we may still do it with a bit of luck – I think 90 points will be good enough although It’s really hard to see where our are next points are coming from. I have predicted the following – this would give us 87 and with some luck along the way this could just be enough. We cant lose second spot for at least 2 games and as long as we don’t get spanked buy someone the goal diff is still worth a point. There’s no spark in the midfield give Max a run although he was on for 20 mins and only touched the ball twice – if Beckford is still out then it has to be Grella or Kandol. Dickov and McSheffery do nothing for me, Max and Snods to supply the ammo and for fucks sake pass the ball. Anyway we can’t be in the playoffs again I have not bought my “Extra Time Membership” this year.

    Norwich Leeds 0
    Leeds Swindon 1
    Yeovil Leeds  1
    Leeds Southend 3
    Carlisle Leeds 1
    Gillingham Leeds 3
    Leeds MK Dons 3
    Charlton Leeds 1
    Leeds Bristol R 3

    MOT