Dear TSS, how can Bates justify £26 for Stockport? TSS September 2, 2009 Leeds United 55 Comments Just received an email from EST1960 who is completely mythed by the price of tickets for this Saturday’s visit of Stockport. To quote from the email he says “..how on earth is Stockport a CAT A game? It’s £26 for the cheapest tickets so I’m having to pay £78 for me and my two sons!” I get quite a few emails from fans and pricing is a common theme, but EST1960 raises a good point here which is the catergory decision for Stockport. Catergory A would usually suggest a big fixture against one of our fellow title-contendors, or at least some kind of rival, but Stockport are neither. They flirted with relegation last season and aren’t doing too well this time round either. For me, they’re a catergory C fixture or B at the absolute maximum. It’s interesting to see the arrangements for the Liverpool game. If you aren’t a season ticket holder or member, then the only way you can get a ticket is by producing a ticket from the Stockport game. There’s no way Bates could have predicted a draw against Liverpool beforehand but it’ll certainly raise the attendance this weekend now. I’ve never taken much notice of the catergory listings for games as I hold a season ticket, but from what I’m told it’s not uncommon for teams of no real significance to be deemed a catergory A game. I’ve been thinking about this for much of the day now and can’t come up with any justification at all for how Stockport could be considered catergory A. For me, there’s only 3 or 4 teams in this division I’d class as catergory A games and Stockport wouldn’t come close. Surely it makes more sense for Ken to keep the prices down and attract more people? If you charged an average price of £20 for tickets and got 30,000 in this would equate to roughly the same as 23,000 paying £26 and a bigger attendance means more money spent on merchandise and refreshments. There’s no way of saying whether 30,000 would turn up with them prices but even if it was only an extra 2-3,000 you’d make the extra revenue on sales within the ground. My major qualm with Elland Road ticket prices remains the empty seats. There’s no point having empty seats at all. Even if we gave them away to school kids for free it’d be better than them being unused and it’d also increase revenue with the kids spending money within the ground. It’d also welcome the next generation of Leeds fans into Elland Road who will one day be the ones paying to see the Whites play. Prices quoted are the cheapest seats in the North and South stands. Peter The only reason unkle Ken has the game at cat A is the away fans do not have far to travel and he is guaranteed to sell out the cheese wedge and half the south to stockport at these prices. He knows there will be the usual 23k ish leeds fans who will go regardless of catagory. Bates = Shyster mightyleeds I’m with you on lowering prices=more through the turnstiles. KB threw the gauntlet down before when he “lowered”, (if 320 quid for a 3rd division game can be classed as that!), the prices & we supporters responded by coming even more in our numbers. However if you think about it, the money grabbing old **** would have to lower S/T’s likewise if he made too many games Cat B or C’s. As it is as a S/T where being ripped off. Hardly much of a saving by buying one against doing so match by match, no cup games, (not even the shitty JPT), included either! Where just being ripped off by the old tosser. Only saving grace is we’ll be here long after he’s gone! simcol68 Did,nt know you had to go to stockport game to get ticket for liverpool match well never mind i wont be going to either them ,and till that grey hair old to$$er lowers his prices i wont be going to many games this season at all even if where top of league by 30points at xmas why the hell should hard working leeds fans pay top prices for 3rd div football oooh i here you say but we brought in some top class players during transfer window ,well mmmmmmmm lets see 2 players one cost £250k other free signing after a trial…… i love leeds, supported them 30yrs but sick of being ripped off and he the old dodgy santa look alike his milking our club for all he can get away with , he may have saved us and i will give him credit for that but look what hes attualy put into leeds ….. BIG FAT NOTHING Steve Wright You start with a basic mathematical error. 11500 of the crowd will be there ‘free of charge’, ie season ticket holders. There is only £2 difference between a Cat A and a Cat B in the East Central & West Stands which in the context of this debate is irrelvant. Those that choose to pay £29 will pay £31. That leaves the North & South Stands where there are about 5,000 tickets to sell after season tickets are taken out. I would imagine that 4,000 of those tickets will be sold at Cat A and all of them at Cat B. The difference is therefore (using the full price tickets as a guide) (4,000*26) – (5,000*21), or 104,000 – 105,000. So on that basis, and losing 1,000 through the gate it costs £1,000. But then add the additional revenue from the Stockport fans, the ESL & West and the corporate dollar and it works out in the club’s favour. IF by any chance we get more fans in than that then the negative sum becomes a positive sum. No-one can doubt that £26 is way too high for this fixture. Given the facilities £21 is perfectly reasonable for this league and not too far off what everyone else pays. But if you’re asking why the club do it then the answer is that they make as much, if not more, from a lower crowd at higher prices. Sadly we have failed to support the Cat C matches in the past. People keep harking back to the Championship price cuts, but since then we’ve had sub 20,000 for the Cat C’s save for Hereford where despite winning a load of games before hand only 24,000 Leeds fans turned up. This was a Saturday game in good weather. Bates will only change things when the fans do what they say they will and fill the ground at Cat C prices. The actual evidence is that they don’t. And, in case you hadn’t realised it (though you make no comment) your original correspondent is a liar (unless his sons, conveniently, are over 16). All areas that sell £26 tickets offer concessions at £12, so the most he can have been charged is £50. Still a lot, but 35% less than the figure he or she quotes. If he had just one junior membership, for £20 he and his (imaginary) sons could sit in the ESL for £36 between them (£22 adult and £7 kids). It’s a shame that this message doesn’t come out more. EST is, I suspect, a well known troll on Leeds message boards well known for misleading people and lying when it suits him. It would be nice to think that you’ll check it out and report back EST1960 My kids are 16 and 18. Neither work as ones in college and the other is about to start University so I cover the ticket prices. leeds… Steve Wright take your blinkers off and realise we’re being milked by KB…Fact ! simcol68 milked more than a dairy cow on a double shift Steve Wright Strange to be talking about them as ‘kids’ when they’re grown up and all that. No way are you telling the truth, but we’ll never know. The way you phrased it ensured that you’d get the unthinking sympathy vote. I don’t care really, I really don’t. Life’s not fair. I’ve just paid my electricity bill and it’s gone up 75% in two years. So has my gas bill. As for petrol….well! And anyway, as he retires to light the blue touchpaper…I’m not being milked. I’m paying £17 odd on Saturday. Even if I was a new applicant I’d be paying £20. And if I am being milked, that’s my choice. I don’t need you or anyone else telling me how to run my life. I choose to renew my season ticket. I cut back on other things. I’m sorry if I can’t take the troubles of the world on my shoulder, but there are tons of things I can’t afford. Why aren’t you sticking up for me on those things? You all like to stamp your feet, but the best you can come up with is one liners about ‘blinkers’ and ‘milked’. Try and stretch it into a real debate and you’re lost, the lot of you. simcol68 where as all the money gone the last 18 months to two yrs on players been sold ? lets say we got £4m for delph + add ons £2m+ + the money from compo from chelsea for the two players they nicked from our acadamy and the one spurs nicked and everton then you add money we received for blake hulse,cresswell,healy to name a few and that little lot will add upto somewhere around £12m+ and what have we spent about £1.5 m paul hendry steve wright must be involved with lufc or ken bates at some level. The way he attempts to convince us that the pricing structure used by lufc is fair leaves me in no doubt there is a close connection. The Stockport game should never ever be a ‘cat A’ game. Especially when Liverpool is a ‘cat B’ game. It is simply a joke the way we are fleeced every game. We are loyal fans who will turn up every week and ken bates knows that. That is why it feels unfair to have this ridiculous pricing structure in place. I choose to sit in the east stand lower to get a ‘side on’ view of the game. This view costs me approx £8 per match more than the north stand or south stand and indeed the people who will sit behind me at the liverpool match in the east stand upper will pay £8 less for the same/similar view………the mind boggles and it always will with bates and harvey pulling the strings!!! DN I’ve never sent a message to a web-site before but I’m truly sick of this anti-Bates crap that you peddle. I will be at ER this week and every other as long as I can manage to get there – if some of your correspondents think the prices are too high: tough – go somewhere else, but stop bleating. Just to put things in context, down the road from where I live a so-called Music fesst is planned for this weekend – despite the fact it currently looks like a refugee camp in downtown Palestine and the acts are definitely small-time/unknown, the organisers are to charge £45 per head and £10 to park. That’s life! Its about time the anti-Bates brigade stopped peddling the same old nonsense and admitted they are not that bothered about supporting the club; it’s interesting the comments made about ticket prices being too high for football in the “Third Division” and deriding the lack of signings: please go away! TSS Hi DN, this is a blog mate and whether you agree with the views or not is irrelevant. I offer others the chance to voice their opinions through the comments which require no registration and are very loosely moderated. People are entitled to an opinion and I respect that, but to question peoples loyalty as a fan is ludicrous! I pay for a season ticket every year too. Just because I generally dislike the way the club is run does not mean I’m going to stop going and supporting the team. The fans make the football club at the end of the day and all of them are entitled to an opinion, whether it differs from your own or not. Ed Twopenneth from a Stockport fan here – I think Peter has hit the nail on the head: Bates knows County will bring large numbers. For close games and ‘big’ games like this we take a large following – probably nearly half our home following; I believe Bury and Rochdale did the same a couple of years ago. Doesn’t mean it’s anything other than disgraceful profiteering of course (although I’m sure Bates will call it good business sense). Oh, and to be pedantic: we only ‘flirted with relegation’ last season because we lost ten points. Before that and the forced sale of players in January we were flirting with the play-offs. p.s. that Beckford looks tired – he should be rested this weekend. TSS I was aware of the deduction, but we had one too and it sent us down. If we had have survived, we’d have still been flirting with relegation, whether that was down to the ridiculous rules of the Football League or not. Punishing a club in trouble when the governing body should be doing everything within their power to support them is ridiculous, but that’s besides the point. Thanks for your comments and all the best for Saturday. PS. Beckford will be fit and ready I’m sure haha paul hendry DN: most people are happy that bates saved us from extinction but it’s at a substantial cost to loyal fans. we have no choice if we attend all the games… WE HAVE TO PAY UP!!! don’t give us the ‘go somewhere else’ rubbish. we are leeds fans, we go to games but we don’t have to be happy with the cost of it and we are free to voice this opinion!!!!!!!!!!!! Eddie There’s no doubt KB is charging the max possible for 90mins of entertainment, (not guaranteed), in this divi. Also, he’s not taking a long term view re getting kids in cause at his age he only sees short term. The future will be somebody else’s problem. Making a ticket for mis-categorised game like Stockport a pre-requisite for a Liverpool ticket shows it’s all about the money for him. Steve Wright You can’t walk more than five feet at ER without tripping over a kid/family. And that’s great – the family stand offers realistically priced football at a cheaper cost than the rest of us pay, even for adults – better seats as well. There is this dewy eyed image of lots of kids being transfixed at the sight of their heroes and immediately being hooked. They will be hooked again. After all, when we were relegated from the Premier League 6,000 family tickets in the ESL were not renewed (well before Bates came along). That’s how long ‘the bug’ lasts. One bad season. One good season and they’ll be back. Andrew Preston Although I cannot defend the prices, I do highly reccomend you getting a Membership for you and your sons, it makes prices much cheaper if you can get into the family enclosure and very quickly pays for itself. jacccqqques It was the same price for Tranmere last home game and probably cost us a much better gate for that one. Unfortunately, a by product of an excellent start to the season is the assumption within the higher echelons at the club that people will pay more to watch a winning side. It does cost a little more when there are more fans (policing, stewarding, utilities etc) but this would surely be covered by the extra revenue from the extra fans. If not, the better atmosphere would surely be worth it. We could fill the ground at 15 quid a game and have an amazing atmosphere and not many teams would relish coming to ER with 38000 Leeds fans roaring the lads on. Finally, the Liverpool game may not sell out due to the Stockport ticket thing and there is probably a fair chance that some will be available on general sale. Steve Wright Did we fill the ground when Hereford visited after five straight wins last season? Cat C game on a Saturday. And only 24,000 Leeds fans turned up. That’s a fact. If there was a match to stick it up Bates’s backside this was it. And we didn’t. Where does this fantasy about full houses come from? Paul G Bates makes no pretence at being a Leeds fan; he is a businessman, pure and simple, and as such is in football to make a profit. (As an aside, we had a Chairman who was a “fan” not so long ago ….. look where it got us!!!) When we were relegated from the Prem, and given the mess the club was in, I felt it would take the best part of 10 years to recover. Well, we’re about half way through that 10 years now; and if we get promoted this season, I reckon we’ll be about on target. If we’d got promoted in the Donny game, we’d have struggled in the Championship; if this side gets promoted, with Grayson at the helm, and with the addition of a few players, I reckon we’ll hold our own. Simcol says that Bates has put nothing into Leeds; but why should he??? As the man himself has said on many occasions, Leeds is a wealthy city; but none of the local monied people were prepared to put anything into the club either! Please don’t think that I’m an apologist for Bates, because I’m not; but I do recognise that his motives for being involved with the club are very different from mine ……. simcol68 paul G the reason the local business men havn,t put any money into leeds is (1) they wouldn,t trust bates as far as they could kick him (2) knowbody knows who owns the ground or thorpe arch apart from bates and he wont tell?????? i ask you would you buy a car off somebody if there name wasnt on the log book ??? no you wouldn,t.. He also wants the council to redevelope elland road for the possible 2018 world cup bid oh yes that would be brilliant i would love to see his face if it happens he would be rubbing his hands in glee like the devil himselve knowing that the club would be worth more for when he sells it on I ASK YOU WOULD YOU WANT SOMEBODY TO INVEST IN OUR CLUB OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE BATES AS CHAIRMAN I KNOW WHAT I WOULD WANT AND IT AN,T BATES Yorkshrman Sorry, Simcol, the point I was trying to make (and clearly didn’t make clear) was that no-one in Leeds was prepared to invest BEFORE Bates came along. Do I want him as Chairman? No way! But sadly at the moment we’re stuck with him, and he clearly has the upper hand in deciding when (or if) to sell part or all of his share. simcol68 Yes i must admit where was the local investment when we needed it before bates took over. Only thing i can say is that it was there when they went into voluntary admin but the so called owners of the ground registered in cayman isles (i think) only wanted ken bates consortium that in its self tells you a story we can go on all day on the who,s why,s and whats the thing is i have never liked bates never will he,s a shyster ,conman and has not got our club LEEDS at heart hes chelsea tho and tho mightyleeds So this steve wright gadgie thinks paying £26,£29 or even 331 quid for a THIRD division team is FAIR??? What a pillock! How come PREMIERSHIP clubs, (& not just the small ones either-take Sunderland for example), charge much less then? As for the claim KB would lower prices when we supporters start filling the stadium for Cat B & C games beggers belief! How many 3rd division teams get averages of 24,000 then stevie boy like us? By definition even if we were to fill the ground for these lower cat games the old sod would only hike them up to Cat A in the future! As for the Stockport follower- your lot to bring a big following my arse, what your bringing 1200 or summat? LOL as you only get 5000 to bother to watch your lot at home I cant see where your going to muster much more Steve Wright No – ‘This’ Steve Wright has now said twice that it isn’t fair. Sorry that bit hasn’t made it to your scree, but I can assure you it’s there. Ed Mighttleeds – 1500ish is roughly what I meant by travelling in big numbers; 33% of your home gate is a pretty good away following. Of course you have more fans; you’re a high profile team , based in a big city with no competition for fans; we’re a club in a town within 10 miles of two very well supported teams. Our fanbase may be much smaller but the fact it remains much the same regardless of what level we play at is something we have pride in. As with Man City before you, you’ve found your ‘true’ level of fans (who’ll support you no matter what level you play at) is somewhat below your capacity as well. Here’s hoping for a good game tomorrow; I bear no ill will to Leeds (unlike most in this division) as I lived and worked there for 5 years and still spend much more time there than in Stockport – looking forward to my shortest journey of this season (home or away). Steve Wright Paul Hendry – before swishing out in an irrational manner just because I haven’t posted something you like could you please explain how I think the pricing is ‘fair’ when I said: No-one can doubt that £26 is way too high for this fixture. Given the facilities £21 is perfectly reasonable for this league and not too far off what everyone else pays. But if you’re asking why the club do it then the answer is that they make as much, if not more, from a lower crowd at higher prices. The original post made a number of assertions which are easy to swallow until you look into them. It asked WHY. I explained WHY. I did not justify it. It’s a pity you didn’t spend as much time reading and understanding my post as you did typing your kneejerk reaction. I choose to sit in the east stand lower to get a ’side on’ view of the game. This view costs me approx £8 per match more than the north stand or south stand and indeed the people who will sit behind me at the liverpool match in the east stand upper will pay £8 less for the same/similar view………the mind boggles and it always will with bates and harvey pulling the strings!!! At the risk of annoying you further I’d point out that what you’re actually doing there is criticising the club for actually reducing prices in compensation for the fact that Liverpool have the SE & South Stand. It means 7,000 £21 tickets are out there that wouldn’t be otherwise. Should those tickets be the same as yours? Are you actually advocating price increases for thousands of Leeds fans just because of what you paid? And the view from up there, the first few rows apart, is nowhere near as good as the ESL. paul hendry steve wright, i guess you have just got your gcse results and one was probably in english languge… and probably maths… must be getting near your bedtime…….GOOD NIGHT SON!!! Steve Wright So you saying that I justified the prices, me showing that I did anything but and asking for you to acknowledge that leads to you taking your bat and ball home? That’s the problem.People just want to rant. Ask them questions, try and get some rationale and they hit out. And that’s the poisonous nature of people like EST who started all this off. They lie and people take it all in. It’s a shame, because there are many areas where Bates needs a kick up the arse. But we couldn’t exactly trust Paul Hendry to explain those while frothing at the mouth, could we? And I’m 42 years old. I have 10 ‘O’ Levels, 4 ‘A’ Levels and a degree, seeing as you raised it. It’s a shame you feel the need to feel inferior. I couldn’t give a damn about qualifications so long as someone can argue in a reasonable manner. You’ve got your own agenda. If being angry is how you deal with it then so be it. paul hendry steve, you might have to read my posts again… i was quite cool about it all, although aggreaved!!! you seem to be the angry one. HeadingleyHoodlum Stop moaning the lot of you. You aren’t paying to see Stockport but Leeds United. If you don’t want to go, don’t. At the point of sale, I doubt anyone who was intending to attend is bothered enough by a couple of extra quid on a ticket to change their mind. The prices are set to ensure we can afford top dollar League 1 wages, be competitive and make a profit. Buy a season ticket if you want a cheaper deal, 17 quid a game by all accounts. And before you start, I’m out of work and will be attending this game but not Liverpool, which i’ll leave to the bandwagon jumpers. MOT Steve Wright Judging by the online ticket sales the Stockport tickets have hardly been flying out. Mind you the Liverpool sales to members aren’t exactly massive, given the fact that all the supposed sales highlighted include ST holders’ seats which might not be bought when the priority period ends. Danny the Loser The Headingley Hoodlum is right!! At Leeds we can attract the best players from League 1 and can afford to pay their wages. Leeds have fought strongly for the last two seasons in a difficult league and this time around, we should get promotion…. We are not a sinking ship anymore. Yes Mr Ken Bates is a businessman….. But he has done a very good job at Leeds, look at the finances…. THEY ARE HEALTHY! And yes I believe the ticket prices are overpriced…..but it isn’t just Bates and Leeds, it’s football as a whole, it’s a joke, for the prawn sandwich eaters nowadays so get used to it. If we get promotion to the Premier League the prices will increase and an Arab will be pocketing your brass long after you’ve hounded Bates away….. What’s that gonna feel like then Paul Hendry et al!!!! You are jokers!! Simonfire1 This Steve Wright guy is worse than a Scum Fan – I’m guessing he’s really a grey bearded wally from Chelsea under a pen name – Master-Bates has done nothing for us other than secure us a spot in mediocrity. If one of your 10 O’Levels is in Geography do us all a favour and work out the fastest route to Monaco, Get in your car, Go peddle your rubbish to old gandalf the grey – and leave the rest of us to get ripped off! simcol68 NEVER A TRUER WORD SAID Steve Wright Simon – so bitter. If I could afford to go to Monaco to avoid ignorant pikey oiks like you I’d gladly do so. As it is, as ever with the Bates haters, it’s all beconme personal and I have no desire to spill blood on someone else’s blog. simcol68 Tss Think you have stirred a few feelings on here today Steve Wright Feelings, yes, thoughtful debate…sadly no. And the original e-mailer WAS lying. That’s the irony. USA White You are so quick to have a thoughtful debate but you want to make the accusations of the first e-mailer lying. You don’t have proof of that. People in their 70s still call their 45 your old children kids. As to your another point, filling Cat C matches would only cause Bates to raise the prices of Cat C matches not lower prices if he is the good business man that so many think. Simple laws of supply and demand. simcol68 off to bed now going to count me pennys ken bates wont be sleeping till alot later as hes millions of pennys to count Danny the Loser The Headingley Hoodlum is right!! At Leeds we can attract the best players from League 1 and can afford to pay their wages. Leeds have fought strongly for the last two seasons in a difficult league and this time around, we should get promotion…. We are not a sinking ship anymore. Yes Mr Ken Bates is a businessman….. But he has done a very good job at Leeds, look at the finances…. THEY ARE HEALTHY! And yes I believe the ticket prices are overpriced…..but it isn’t just Bates and Leeds, it’s football as a whole, it’s a joke, for the prawn sandwich eaters nowadays so get used to it. If we get promotion to the Premier League the prices will increase and an Arab will be pocketing your brass long after you’ve hounded Bates away….. What’s that gonna feel like then Paul Hendry et al!!!! You are jokers!! beden Great blog. Bates is a pillock by nature. He hasn’t saved Leeds United. He’s done plastic surgery for cancer. Before we knew that we had no money. Now we know that we have no ground, no Thorpe Arch , or who in fact owns anything including the team. The guy is a rogue. Eventually we will be bought out, by a bigger rogue when it suits both set of rogues. Our interests are of no interest. Leeds… Steve Wright and DN, you’re obviously too intelligent and wise for us other bloggers on here as you understand and believe the situation at Elland Road far better than us !!! I’ll bow to your superior knowledge and agree with you immediately… By the way about your comments regarding the family stand, go and find out the prices for kids if you don’t buy well in advance . You may not find it so reasonably priced..No concessions for kids..Well worth it when you have a 3 and a 5 year old !!! Robert Bapty Ken Bates a shrewd businessman? I think not! if the Tranmere match had been a cat ‘b’ there would have been around 5,000 more supporters there, surely 5,000 x £21 = £105,000 is greater than 12,000 x £5 = £60,000 (the extra for a cat ‘a’ on top of the season tickets) and surely a bigger crowd is a better atmosphere & gives us a greater advantage, I fear the Stockport game will be the same. Wakeylad It’s fairly obvious that the prices are way above what they should be for a game against Stockport. I usually sit in the South Stand because of the concessionary ticket prices for my kids. This Saturday I’m paying £31 for them because it’s my birthday and I’m treating myself to a halfway line view. I will then proceed to spend the night paying for overpriced beer, which I will piss up the wall before eating an overpriced curry and slumping in the back of an overpriced taxi to get home. Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances…Life’s a bitch, then you die. Yorky1 I was at my local at the weekend.My mate complained the Fosters had gone up 20p a pint.He replied we are paying nightclub prices for a village pub.The landlord tried to justify the price as usual with rising costs etc.At the last orders I asked my pal if he had a good night, he stated he had enjoyed himself,and the pub had a great atmosphere,what about the price hike I asked him, ‘oh forgot about that.’I said we could go down town next weekend, ‘No’ he replied, ‘we should support our local, hate it if it dissapeared!’ prestdivad two points Steve Wright, Season ticket holders do not get in free at the liverpool game, Headingley hoodlum, re stockport prices, if we are paying to watch leeds (agreed) why does the price vary and dont give me any supply/demand garbage!! (ps I am a season ticket holder) Mike Lets face it ticket stub required for the liverpool game or not there will not be 39,000 fans at Stoxkport on Saturday. Bates will look a little silly as he will have to put some tickets up for general sale for non Stockport ticket holders, otherwise he will cut his own throat. If would only open up the top tier of the east stand every week at Kop prices then everyone will be happy (Gates would be 27,000 to 32,000 on a regular basis, the players get to play in front of a realistic crowd considering the size of the ground and bates gets his money) Mike I have emailed Yorkshire Radio (about the East Stan Upper) every time Bates is on but it never comes up for discussion. Reality is he does not want ticket prices lower which makes it easier for him to screw us further when we eventually get back to the Premier PB Why not get rid of Bates and get a fan in charge of the club !! Then we can “live the dream” take on massive debts and end up selling every asset including players and end up with nothing !!! Those that Bates are propably the same people that were on here complaing about Ridsdale, Krasner etc. ie NEVER Happy !!! You might not like him but he has stabalised the club. As for making profit – of course he is, he’s a business man and in it for profit !! If the club makes profit it has a future. We have a damn site better prospect with Bates in charge rather than a “fan”. Stuart I e mailed the club last year and asked what criteria is used to determine the Category of any given game. Shaun Harvey replied and said that numerous factors are involved but the three main reasons are (a) THe cost of staging the game (b)The current league position of the opposition and (c)the cost of a game pro rata to season ticket holders. I cannot see how the staging of Stockport or Tranmere costs more than any other game in division 3, neither Tranmere or Stockport are near the top of the league and Season Ticket prices are very high to start with for 3rd division football and so the match day ticket prices will be high to ensure that the ST holder pays less on average per match. Meanwhile there’s 10 – 15,000 empty seats at most games. I’ve been watching Leeds for 36 years and living 80 miles away means that every game has added expense with travel. I won’t go to Cat A games in division 3 on principle. Bates is mugging us. Gilesleftfoot I’m taking my son to ER this Saturday and I still refer to him and my duaghter as my kids and they’re 26 and 28! I don’t get to ER as much these days as I live in the Midlands, but I was a bit shocked ta the price of tickets, given that I only paid £18.00 to get in to Walsall. That said ER is a bit different from the Bescot stadium and whilst we may be in the 3rd Division we’re still getting premiership/championship crowds and we still have a premiership stadium and that costs money. What I don’t like about Bates (or any of the other regimes for that matter) is the lack of transaparency. What IS happening with the money from transfers and profit from the gates? Are they being kept for investment when we get back in the championship? I hope so. Danny the Loser I must agree there is a lack of transparency and would also hope there is brass around for investment in the future….. I can’t possibly see us not being in control of Thorp Arch after October… If we aren’t….I s’ll want to know why. Scarboro Jack Bates Motel is what the ground will be called in 2 years. The old psycho wont rest until he has built a Chelsea Village and sold it for a nice fat wedge. Having said that I would rather have him than any of the last lot the lying greedy ridsdales the mad get at Harrogate town the richmond taxi man the bent bust builder and the rest of the thievin krasner krew. Get behind the club the team the management the owner Who is going to buy a crap loss making club from us?